:wizard: where do you get those icons?:charge: :hmg:
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:wizard: where do you get those icons?:charge: :hmg:
If you go into advanced, then click on more under the icons, then look at the top, theirs a littile scroll list. Gives acess to a whole load of extra ones.
THAT is your opinion. Wrong as it may be. But you are entitled to your mistakes. While everyone else moves on, you can continue to fester in your misery and your past errors in judgement. You keep stating you were on almost every beta test team from STW through RTW. If this is the case, then you must also accept some blame for the state of those games. You cannot pass it all off onto CA. It was your failure as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puzz3D
I was on one of those beta test teams and chose not to participate after seeing exactly who was running the show. Kocmoc, Magyarkhan and a couple of other good players, who actually knew what made for good gameplay, quit or were run off once they realized where the patch was heading.
This is the M2TW MP forum. If this engine is inferior (TO YOU), then take your bias, disrespectful attitude, and disdain of anything CA and participate in the MTW1 or mod forum, where discussions of mods and that game engine can be found. The M2TW forum is for discussions which hopefully will encourage CA to make changes to the "CURRENT" M2TW community. You continue to do a disservice to the current M2TW community by side-tracking any and all discussions with your obvious rantings against the new engine. All this without having purchased the M2TW game, and thus, with little knowledge of its inner workings and how it plays out in online battles. All you have is OLD knowledge of the RTW engine, which has changed. Anything you have to say is second-hand knowledge or from reading other people's comments. Your OBVIOUS bias against CA, the new engine, and ANYONE who actually enjoys the new game, reduce anything you have to say less than useless.
However, I also know, your ego will not allow you to leave the new community to work out its own way of improving the current game. I will be there to insure it doesn't go unnoticed by the other patrons participating here, when you begin disrupting threads with your nonsense.
If you want to continue to embarrass yourself publicly, feel free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElmarkOFear
How is Puzz becoming disrespectfull in his comments Elmark? He is just post His opinion, If YOU don't like it, along with anyone else, don't post here. (Why you think I don't like to post on these threads?)
I would and do not approve of People ranting about a game they may not have out right played, but when many comrades,clan mates and friends of that person, Puzz in this case, who actually played the game online, and could refer the information to him, he can also make a opinon on it also (even if he did play RTW/MTW2 online,which I don't not know)
How does Puzz have a ego? Last time I checked, he doesn't. Many Old Players already moved on, and already are just posting Their Opinoins here at .org ElmarkOfFear..
I do not sit here and study the the actual sollider arm movements and all this graphic gameplay stuff, as I do not go into complex things in the communtiy, But What I do Know, and Will Say, No Matter if you El or your supporters will say, MTW2 Is Better then RTW, but STW/MTW are still better then RTW and MTW
Put your Ego in check El and admit that.I had fun on RTW also, I admit that, but I WILL admit RTW is and willl not be the best game in the TW series for MP gameplay, as I and anyone else, incluing You El, will admit that.
How Can CA Make changes ElMark, if Puzz3d and others can't post their thoughts here?
Why Should he post this stuff in the MTW 1 Fourm? It is About MTW2 Elmark, it is just Stupid to make a MTW2 topic in MTW1 fourm, you know that Mate :inquisitive: .
Yes, he may have got his Information from Second Hand Reading ElmarkofFear,But You Yourself even said that STW/MTW is much better then RTW and MTW2. Don't Try to Argue with that ego of yours otherwise,But it's the Truth.
I may and have not have been here for no 6 or 7 years. I only been here since March 2004, when VI was wrapping it up, but still, I can tell the Best Gameplay, and it sure in the Hell isn't RTW or MTW2.Because I played every TW game here on MP on many onccsions (expect for STW/MI,which I will do soon) and I can tell you what is Inferior and what isn't.
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Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
Ye but who would care?
:beam:
Kyolic: :beam:
Warman: I never said the old engine was inferior to the new one. :laugh4:
What I said was Puzz can have his opinion. Wrong as it may be.
Big difference. The new engine is not inferior to the old. It is just different. The whole mechanics behind it are different. This engine has the same problems that MTW/VI had (has). They are equal in this respect. To say one is inferior to the other is just a subjective opinion, of which I do not agree.
The disrespect, you mentioned has been continual, throughout this and past discussions of M2TW MP. If you cannot see that, I cannot help you there.
As stated earlier, as long as the discussions are based on M2TW and how to improve it, instead of a continual bashing of the new engine and those who enjoy playing it, I will enjoy the discussions. Otherwise, I will point out when someone steps out of line. This is the M2TW forum, not the Samurai Wars mod forum, nor the MTW1 forum.
Please continue on with the discussion at hand. It is very entertaining.
Kyolic: That goes for everyone including you to,how funny :beam:Quote:
Originally Posted by ElmarkOFear
ElmarkofFear:
No Matter if we "Help Improve" the MTW2 MP foyer or do "Bashing" that Puzz3d are doing, CA will not fix it. You and everyone here realizes that.
To Me, It is not Bashing when you pointing out the ploblems between the games, and what is better Elmark.
MTW/VI is not equal to MTW2. MTW2 doesn't have good games that the engine can provide. MTW/VI may not be the best ehtier, but still, the Engine on MTW/VI if fast pacing, balanced, and makes you think more, then compare to RTW/MTW2.
That's my 8 cents here. You can like it, or you can dislike it.
If what you say is true, then why you bother to repeatedly point a game's faults out if there is no possible solution? Sounds like whining/bashing to me...Quote:
Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
It is bashing however, when you point out the problems between the games continously without any forseeable solution (as you said above) and sometimes even exaggerating problems to suit your own viewpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
Sigh...Quote:
Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
And also I would like to add that if M2TW can't provide enjoyment to you, why do you bother posting in a forum dedicated to it's improvement and discussion?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElmarkOFear
The bottom line to this whole argument is that there is a big difference between contructive and destructive opinions. People post here to try and improve their lot with the multiplayer experience of M2TW, and I feel it's a tad counter-productive for others to continually dismiss and undermine their efforts because of cynicism and resentment towards CA and/or the newer members of the multiplayer community. Obviously everyone is free to express their own opinions here, but perhaps continuous repetition of your negative opinions about the very game the surrounding forum is based on is carrying the 'freedom of speech' argument a bit too far, huh?
Puzz does one and one thing only, In every theread here he opens discusion about a thing that was in old engine that was better than its now. Its compleatly off topic, and that discusion always goes in the way that people start arguing with him and most of the productive discusions goes to hell.
Tip of the iceberg of inferiority are two observations made by Carl on the effectiveness of archers in the M2TW engine. First: arrows have the same chance of hitting a moving target as they have of hitting that target when it's stationary. Second: the shape of the archer formation does not affect the effectiveness of a volley.
You see it's not just different. It's inferior.
I'm not responsible for the inferior state of the new engine. What a stupid thing for anyone to suggest. Creative Assembly gave the RTW v1.2 beta team 1 day to test the final build. That's not enough time to test the game as any imbecile would realize. Besides that, Creative Assembly told the beta team not to make any playbalance suggestions. They even refused to fix the incorrect stat display on upgraded units saying that it would only be of interest to hardcore players. From reading the thread in the Citadel about armor upgrades, the stat display in M2TW is also incorrect which doesn't surprise me.
If so, what do you plan to do about it Puzz?Quote:
Originally Posted by Puzz3D
Those imbeciles should not accept to become beta testers on the first hand may be. :beam:Quote:
Originally Posted by Puzz3D
the reason why infantry take losses when running is that they are not in position with a shield to deflect projectiles. horse archers are about as hard to hit in shooting circle as they were in rome i think. if im right i think units took more losses when moving in rome and bi as well.
the only units who did not suffer were phalanx units which supposedly there spears would deflect some of the arrows.
i think the biggest factor right now is that you are managing 20 units instead of 16 as in mtw/vi. so you dont exercise as much control. i think after a few patches the game will be better overall though.
of course i have always taken all the total war games in stride and i enjoyed playing rome in mp but i played for fun and not competition. regardless of which engine is better mtw/vi right now will have a little more time left because of the valor 1 interest but i think it be dead before long so we should all except that and move forward.
however most of the community is still in rome total war because of their disappointment in the mtw2 performance and server problems and the low turnout in ronin players. there are simply a lot of people who dont like no art or ele games out there. especially for this game when you have access to all that weaponry.
when i played rome i always had only one rule and that was no onagers because i thought onagers ruined the game for everyone. elephants werent so bad because they were so easy to rout. usually a skilled player would keep them in reserve until an opportunity arose to send them in.
in this game i would be satisfied to rule out catapults and trebuchets. in reality these stone throwers were very rarely used on the battlefield and since rome they are just too overpowered for what they are. but i would welcome any other artillery since gunpowder weapons power is historically very devestating. but this is concerning the playing community as a whole and not referring to tournament related or clan related playing.
With due respect to Yuuki, I agree here with Elmo wholeheartedly.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElmarkOFear
Frustration is one thing, lets say we understand it; having an opinion is an other thing, fine with me; but stating the same things time and time again in every single thread is just counter-productive. (and irritating for many of us)
Nothing I can do. CA closed the door on suggestions from players like me using the excuse that the game was not intended for hardcore players.Quote:
Originally Posted by guyfawkes5
If the current model were to account for target motion, that would take more calculations which would adversely impact framerate. I'm sure CA is aware of the ways they cut corners in the new battle engine. However, they don't want the customer to know.
Of greater import is the OP's observation. If the participation at peak time is 50 to 75 people, that's terrible for a game that's purported to be the state of the art in strategic/tactical gaming. The original Total War game had better online participation than that. I was keeping track of online participation during the 2000 - 2001 period. I saw the tremendous drop in online participation when the MI add-on for STW was released. The engine was essentially the same, and the network code of STW/MI worked better than the network code of STW. The only thing that had deteriorated was the playbalance. Within 3 months, participation dropped to 30% of what it had been before the MI add-on was released. Some players went back to STW. I went into the STW/MI v1.02 beta team because I thought working with CA would result in a better game. However, that's not what happened. The playbalance of STW/MI v1.02 remained inferior to the original STW, and online participation only recovered to about 45% of what it had been in STW.
Some people may think that playbalance doesn't matter, and one gameplay is as good as another. However, my observation is that playbalance has a big effect on how many people play the game. In the case of M2TW, current lag seems to be an issue. I just talked to MizuTears yesterday. He bought the game recently but found the lag in online play to be too severe, and he won't play it online again. He has a new computer, so it's not a question of his system not meeting system requirements. Although, he does have an Athlon cpu, but i don't know which one. He wasn't aware when he bought the game that Athlon cpu is not supported for multiplayer, but we don't know if that causes lag.
Maybe we can put together a fund to get Puzz M2TW. In all seriousness, Puzz has done a lot of work on previous TW games. However it's time to update that signature and add a new Mod for M2TW. Put your knowledge to work and make a decent game better. If your not going to buy the game, or work on a mod, it's time to go back to the MTW1 forum. I cannot stand to hear another rendition of how STW/MI or MTW/VI .... was better or worse. Thats not only directed at Puzz, but anyone. Go read the archives if you want more of that, believe me it's full of it.
FearofCromwell
Puzz3D - The point I am making is that if there is no viable solution available for the faults you repeatedly point out, then why do you bother to express your negative opinion on them time and time again? I certainly can appreciate what you're saying and I do think you have a deep knowledge of the Total War game engine (to a degree), but I just feel the way you keep pointing to the past and disregarding the future is detrimental to the forum and multiplayer community as a whole.
I feel this is a very sad situation, especially given that you have proved your resourcefulness and talent by creating a thoroughly solid mod for STW, but yet will not contribute any of your experience or knowledge to the current multiplayer experience and the current community as a whole due to your bitterness (this is the feeling I'm getting from you, feel free to correct me as to why you won't help us move foward if you feel otherwise).
Yes, time and time again the very same comments. As I said it is just counter-productive and irritating. That is all. Nothing personal.Quote:
Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
So what? What do you gain by stating the obvious time and time again? Nothing. It does not lead us anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
Admit what? Elmo never claimed that RTW is better than MTW or STW. Actually if you have not noticed Elmo left the community during thwe times of RTW exactly beacuse he was fed up with the poor gameplay of RTW.Quote:
Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
Also could you please notice that no one ever debated that STW/MI was the best game of the TW series. I think that all of the vets who ever played STW will agree on that. This includes Yuuki, Elmo, myself etc. That is not the question.
The question is whether it is a good idea to repeat the same thing (the same obvious statement) time and time again. My answer is clear and simple: no. This what Elmo pointed out.
Please understand that this is a new game, a new engine. Either you can live with it or not. If not, it is fine with me just do not post it in every single thread because it wont help anyone and wont improve anything. That is all.
Why do you think that posting in every single thread that "the new engine is inferior to the old" could help CA? Why do you think that posting in every single thread that "STW was the best" is a help to CA? How do you want to help CA without playing the game? How do you want to help CA without making specific suggestions based on your experience with the current engine?Quote:
Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
Wake up mate, it is a game. Some people like it some people dont. There is no "TRUTH". Actually, as I said we all agree that STW was the best. So what? We (me and Elmo and some other vets who involved with the new community) dont want to repeat this statement till the end of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
I have to respectfully disagree. First I've never said that formation width has no effect, nor have I meant to imply that. Also, given the similarities in formation width between archers and other units in the game I can see no way in which it actually matters as their are few situations in which it would come up in.Quote:
You see it's not just different. It's inferior.
Likewise the situation with it tracking men makes perfect sense. This isn't STW/M1TW where (as I hear it), Cav moved at exactly the same speed as infantry basic and where only faster because they tiered out more slowly. The difference between the fastest and slowest unit plus the really high pace of RTW mean that you could never balance missile units without it. If you set it up so the miss rate against running infantry was low enough that it was balanced. Cav and especially really fast mounted units would have been traveling so fast they would have suffered almost no hits from each volley, whilst phalanx's and non-running units would be moving so slowly they'd take an unusually high number of hits. You can't balance that in the engine because a slow unit already takes more volleys than a fast one and if you try to do it via shield/Armour it buggers up the melee defense. So they solved it by taking the effects of movement on accuracy out.
At this juncture i think I'll give a fill explanation on how I believe the current engine handles arrows, an maybe I'll go into animations and their effect on combat tomorrow or the day after. I'll at this point thank Puzz for explaining how the old engine did it as that gave me a lot of insights into how the current engine does things.
Hope that helps someone, and gives Econ something to drop in the FAQ again.Quote:
First, the bit before the arrow is fired.
This is pretty simple. The engine first picks a target man in the target unit for the arrow that is about to be fired. It probably picks a man at random with a random number generator. It then figures out exactly what angle it will have to fire the arrow at, (including getting over any intervening obstacles), to get a direct hit. At this point another random number generation takes place. If the figure generated is equal or greater than a fixed value then the arrow fires at that angle. If it's less than the fixed value then a small fraction of a degree is added or subtracted from the angle generated a moment ago. The amounted added or subtracted will be proportional to the amount less than the fixed number the random number is. Weather it addition or subtraction is probably decided by some arbitrary method (probably a 50/50 split).
At this point the arrow is ALMOST ready for firing. One last thing remains to be done. The Engine will now calculate exactly where the arrow will land comparative to the aim point, (the target mans current position), If their has been no angle added/subtracted then it will be directly on top of the guy. Otherwise it will be some meters in front or behind, (in theory). This distance is recorded and appended to the info the engine stores on the arrow whilst it is in flight. The arrow is then fired.
What happens in flight:
This is even simpler. Once fired it follows a ballistic trajectory that in theory, (if the target does not move), will be identical to that computed when computing where the arrow will land in relation to the target. In reality most targets are moving and thus the arrow will determine exactly how far and in what direction the target has moved and adjust the angle of decent of the arrow, (making it steeper or shallower as required), so as to make the distance it lands in front of/beyond the target the same as was calculated when the arrow was fired. It should be noted that it does take account of intervening obstacles, but whilst able to make the angle of decent shallower, it appears to be unable to make the arrow actually go back upwards and miss any obstacles that appear. It can I believe make the arrow travel exactly level though if that is necessary to make it hit.
You cannot normally see the arrows change direction as the check I mentioned is done very often, it's probably part of the hit detection check and making things look realistic plus known projectile velocities make me believe this check has to be carried out at least 300 times every second, 500 is a more sensible number as it allows for higher velocities in future.
Talking of hit detection. Even if the arrow lands in front or beyond the target man, it may well still pass through or hit another man en-rout to this point. If so hit detection kicks in and it counts as a hit against the man it's just hit regardless.
It is also worth noting at this point that the impact angle of the arrow is very important, if the impact angle is very shallow then it will hit with it's full attack, but as the angle gets more and more vertical the hitting power drops off, meaning each hit does less damage, I'm not yet sure what determines this, but it clearly effects muskets/crossbows more than arrows.
Remember however that as always this is just a theory based on observational evidence and what is known for a fact.
All I know is I enjoy playing MTW2. And to me thats all that counts. The biggest problems are with connections. Maybe someone with some skill and knowledge of modding should make private patches like the lords do with NTW. Ther main point is that it seems to me that MTW2 has the potential to be a fantastic game. Certainly more potential than my beloved VI. Ill stick with it and hope that more people will try to help fix instead of just complain about its faults. I wonder if I should even install RTW if so many are playing it. Ive got all three versions but I hated it so when it came out.
1. Posting your own Opinions is not irritiang. Yuuki is posting his thoughts, which he been posting the same. Ok, mabye it is making you and others irrate, but if you don' like it, don't keep responding to it mate.easy as that,nQuote:
Originally Posted by Cheetah
othing personal.
2. Did I ever say Elmark said RTW was better? Please Re-read my thread. Several Times Elmark Pointed out MTW2 MP was better then RTW, but worser then MTW1. Please read carefully next time. I also know he left, along with many other vets in the communtiy. I know a nice bit TW History, so I don't need to be told about it mate.
STW/MI was refered to being one of the best, Not the actual best.That was my mistake eariler.
I don't need to been told mate to understand it is a new system. Posting it in each thread won't help, but making a Bug list won't help, since CA closed it doors to the MP communtiy, rather you understand that or not mate.
3. m8, Please Notice that I HAVE played MTW2 for 1 1/2-2 months straight, before I got fed up with the gameplay (and some arrogant clans and players on it). How do I want to help?
The truth of the matter is, I can't, you Can't mate, none of us can. Get over it already. Having a MP player,Jason, working for CA does not matter. Oh Sure, may help a bit, But has the new Engine changed to the point of me and others actually having full fun? Some Yes, Others like myself, No. Need to understand CA wants to work on TW as a SP Game, not a MP game, no matter what you and everyone does.
Don't Tell Me to Wake up mate and tell me it is a game, I am not that stupid.. I think some vetreans in this community, mabye yourself, Need to Wake up and realize TW isn't going to be the same like it was 5-7 years Ago. You guys need to ethier Get Used to the New Engine, or Go back to the Old Engine, or Just Leave the Communtiy all Together. Because CA will not fix the Mutiplayer ploblems in this communtiy, rather you guys can step up and admit that.
Oh the irony... didn't you originally step in to defend Puzz3D constantly deriding M2TW?Quote:
Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
:clown:
Quote:
Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
Quote:
Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
Erm, CA read all the bug lists at the TW fansites, i even pass the TWC buglist straight ot the CA Oz devs. They are also using the bug list at .com to help prioritize what they fix as that bug list has the bugs rated by how serious they are.Quote:
Posting it in each thread won't help, but making a Bug list won't help, since CA closed it doors to the MP communtiy, rather you understand that or not mate.
And seriously repeating that the new engine sucks over and over again ain't going to help anyone. Why not make some suggestions, why not be optimitic, because if you stop suggesting changes and just berate CA all the time, im not surprised CA might not listen to the mp community. They're humans, they don't like having their work derided with no positives.
The bug list is all they need.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusted
I made suggestions for 5 years, and was on 4 of their beta teams. I've made all my suggestions already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusted
Then post some positives, but if you post that the battle engine is better, I'm going to point out where it isn't better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusted
I just had a clanmate get burned by CA. He has a good computer a little more than 1 year old. He bought M2TW, and the lag in multiplayer is so severe that he can't play it.
I have a new idea for a game. TW.org Forums: Total War! :surrender:
So... where to begin. This is gonna be a long post.
I'll start off with all of the.. interpersonal stuff going on. :grin: I think what we have is a number of folks with good intents but really stubborn mindsets. It can be hard to realize where someone else is coming from. Repeating a message over and over can get annoying, but you have to respect someone who sticks to their guns even in the face of lots of adversity. See I can see where Puzz is coming from, I have friends just like him (at least in my view) who are really smart guys with really stubborn views and opinions, and may not exactly be Mr. Suave when it comes to relaying them to others. For the record I do agree in some shape or form with most of what Puzz says. Really in my view neither side of this argument is right, the new M2TW engine isn't the most miserable ever, but it's certainly not the best. Constructive criticism is the only way that CA is ever going to get the message that many of us would like them to get. On the other hand people also need to be prepared to be summarily ignored, compared to other games and publishers that I've played and interacted with, CA definitely ranks pretty low on my "community involvement" measuring stick. I understand that some individuals are lucky and have personal relationships with the CA folks, but that does NOT help the rest of us in the community. At the end of the day it boils down to can you listen to the next guy give his opinions which you may think are awful, and be able to have a constructive dialogue and still end up respectfully disagreeing in the end? Think that's more than enough on that. ~:cheers:
Now, if we're giving opinions on how to make this game better, then here it goes, been waiting to say this for a long time. (Before you start on this remember that I actually do like M2TW so far, even though I shelved the game a month ago. The reason for that is that the bugs and balance issues were starting to ruin it for me, and since I want to enjoy this game i decided to put it up until the next patch is out, which I understand 1.2 will fix most of what I've been complaining about.)
The root of most of the problems in my view is modding. In terms of the current gaming industry stances and implementations of "moddability", M2TW is just about rock bottom. It's utterly friggin' miserable. Where to start? Let's talk about the use of industry standard formats. Just about the only thing that CA has used that fall into that category are flat text files and the DDS image format. Instead of using some fruity .cas file format that for RTW the community had to come up with it's own tool, or in M2TW where they finally GAVE us one, why not use a friggin' standard format like MD3 or MD4? Don't tell me those won't cut the mustard, it's a standardized well known and documented model that works any way you want it to, you just have to code for it, hell most of the code is already written for you, you just have to Google for it. The actual game file archives? What the hell?? They have to give us some lame unpacker tool just so we can get at the contents, with the lame excuse about using some kind of "special compression format"??? I don't buy it. There are a number of free and/or cheap licensable formats like 7-zip which are easily implemented and can offer better compression rates than even RAR, ACE, ZIP, you name it. Game map formats? What's wrong with BSP? $20 says it can do everything that CA wants to be done, AND it's another open format and there are open source/free tools that CA can simply grab, modify a bit, and redistribute as needed. They've already got a mapper built into the game you say? I'll get to that presently. Second to last, the lack of what we can actually change in terms of game mechanics. CA has coded so much of the game logic into the executable and there's no way we can ever hope to change it, like crusade cooldown, unit movement rates (which I agree with Puzz, MTW was light years better), general/character spawn rates, combat mechanics, etc... I've seen CA's excuse for not telling us anything, about "protecting their intellectual property". My response to that is "total bullshit." Sorry, that's what patents are for. Keeping the knowledge about these mechanics from the community does nothing to help CA's case. People would argue that it's not important to know, well if you are a casual gamer sure. The rest of us want to take the time and effort to understand exactly how this game ticks, exactly what the math this that goes into determining how many kills I get, etc. This is the level of fine tune control and knowledge that we seek so we can leverage that in the game. This is exceedingly important to MP's. Not important? Tell that to the "you run faster with the knife!" CS players, the TW series has it's same kind of fans. Hell I even cooked up a homemade app that did nothing but helped me plan out my Morrowind and Oblivion characters to the last skill level and stat bonus! Last and certainly not least is the complete and total lack of any kind of official support for the modding community. Again sorry, the craptastic little unpacker and the .cas exporter do not cut the mustard. Half-incorrect extremely poorly documented docudemon files? Nope, try again. Look at what ID Software, Valve, EA (for B1942), Unreal, Bethesda etc etc etc have all done. They have offically supported and staffed portals, fully documented APIs, tutorials, and..... SDK's!!! This game is not one of the most moddable ever, it's one of the least, and the lack of official support is infuriating. Point and case, look at the number of good modders that we've had who've drifted away, like DukeJohn. Even the Lordz post on the TW blog I thought was rather tongue in cheek, most of the time you see people fawning and cooing over the games, kissing the marketing folks rears who "invited" them to post. I didn't see any of that in the Lordz guy's post, in fact as I read it there was an underlying "give me a break" tone to his article. That said, the community in general does an admiral job trying to make up for this, but the end result is oftentimes far short of what's actually needed. Our .org modding wiki is a start, but it's woefully inadequate, hell half of what people want to know (like hardcoded values) nobody's been able to figure out yet. Sound like a problem? :furious3:
Now, after I've just got done ripping through CA, what suggestions can we propose to make the game better? To be sure, I'm no insider, I don't "know" how CA actually put this game together or anything about the engine itself that you guys don't, and I'm by no stretch and game coding expert... But, I have done dev. work myself and have several friends in the gaming industry who work as coders, project writers, and mappers, so I do have some clues and am not just pulling this out of my rear. So don't forget, some of this is just guesswork, but I think it's well founded. First, Puzz has called the current TW engine "degraded". While that's not exactly the term I would use, I think from what I've seen CA is running out of steam and into some brick walls with it. Cut to the chase? It might be worth CA's while to abandon their old warhorse and look at licensing something else, like ID's D3/Q4 engine, or the Source engine, or even Unreal. Ideally they should have the current engine well documented (right? right??) and have an understanding of the game mechanics at least as they envison them. So you take that logic, and you grab your (I'll use ID) Q4 engine, and write yourself a client executable gamex86.dll, then throw all your art and goodies on top of that... These engines are modern and extensible enough that you can do pretty much anything you want, and they're already extremely dang fast. If not the ID engine then Source, it doesn't matter, whatever works and is cost effective. Now what does this get you? This gets you a platform that you can work easily with AND your fans can too. Open formats for archives, image, model, and map formats? Check. SDK? Check. Source code so people can muck with the game as they see fit? Check. Built-in optimized net-code that's been worked on since 95? Check. Modern DX9/DX10 graphics support for all the eyecandy and goodies? Check. Documented API for ease of development which can then be put onto a site available to modders and fans? Check. The list goes on.
Don't get me wrong, it's just an idea, and noone would know better than CA if something like this is viable or not. The bottom line is that this game's moddability is miserable, period, and in today's environment modding is a must for game longevity and having a broad fan base. Notepad and editing a few parameters doesn't cut the mustard.
The very last thing I wanted to touch on is the reason for this forum, MP. It's become painfully clear to me over the years I've been here and reading that SP and MP player's wishes are most of the time at odds, Cav being a perfect example. The logical conclusion that I draw and see in other games is to separate the two entities and treat each one separately. Look at games like Quake 4, Heroes of Might and Magic 5, STALKER, etc... It's well known that the games handle differently in MP from SP, have their own separate configurations and settings, etc. So it's not a far stretch for it to happen here. IMO this combined with my above suggestions is the best of both worlds, it allows for much better and balanced MP gameplay without hosing up the single player campaign for the rest of us (who want our cav nice and powerful :grin: ). It's a win win for everyone, SPers, MPers, and most important of all CA whom we all desperately want to listen to us and keeping making good games.
So this may have been harsh at times, but it's a tough love. :grin: I really do hope CA gets the message(s) from the community and works with us more, there's a lot of challenges and room for improvement but it's not insurmountable.
Have a good evening everyone.
:bow:
PS:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Because I almost bought M2TW based on Palamedes' blogs (tactical extravaganza etc.) and the praise that people here were heaping on the game after Gold Day. If I had purchased this game, I would have been severely disappointed and wasted time and $50. This just happened to a clanmate of mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by guyfawkes5
The last few statements are just proof that a few certain individuals will never allow any discussions to occur on M2TW without disruption. A personal vendetta against CA and lack of maturity on their part, will not allow their ego's to let any discussion happen on improving the M2TW engine. These guys have given up. I was able to overcome that, by leaving RTW and playing other games. I came into M2TW, with a different perspective and knowing I wasn't going to get another MTW1. A suggestion from a friend (T1) convinced me to try M2TW and I found I could still enjoy playing the game. I know it just grates on a few people that someone would have the audacity to say they enjoy something other than the original engine, but that is the way it is. Until they grow up, they will continue to disrupt any and all discussions.
You can't change an arrogant mindset. I changed mine and found I can have fun with the new engine.
The funniest part is these people are trying to convince everyone they are doing it for the good of the community, by warning everyone not to buy what they perceive as a bad game. The majority of people thinking of purchasing M2TW have never heard of the .org community so a warning does no good. Those who are already members here, know exactly what type of game they are getting with M2TW. A few individuals are actually INSULTING every member of the .org (instead of helping), by making statements which insinuate, if it wasn't for their constant warnings, some .org member might make a bad purchase decision.
Everyone has seen the discussions here and at other venues, and I know for one, you all are smart enough to figure out if you want to purchase the game or not. I am not going to insult your intelligence, like a few individuals, by constantly telling you whether a game is good or bad and then calling you an "Imbecile" if you enjoy the other game. Everyone likes different aspects of a game and it is up to them to decide. Not some egotistical loudmouth, with a personal grudge against CA.
simply put is that there are probably 100x more people who buy the game for single player than they do multiplayer. so that should give you some perspective as to who CA will need to cater to.
but on the other hand after the fixes i think we will have a game par none to the past total war games. and hopefully it will be along for a few years so it can be patched more and maybe more than just one or two expansion packs added to it. if this is done you may see a stable mp base.
halo is ancient as computer games goes but at any one time youll find about 2000 players on it. thats because its a good reliable smooth running game. total war 2 should be able to come to some kind of perfection given time.
but really the mp community as a whole are into first person shooters,command and conquer clones, and role playing games like warcraft.purely tactical battlefield games are not the thing for mainstream gamers who dont have the tactical know how to own in mp. so if you are playing total war mp games and win at all you probably show more aptitude than someone who plays the other types of games.so pat yourself on the back.
i revisited the rome lobby recently and found the server was worse connection wise than in mtw2 lobby. furthermore the chat monitor was disabled. never a good thing for the general publics participation.the crowd was down too. so i guess the total war community as a whole is definetly making the move to mtw2.
You think so? They left the butt-spike problem in the battle engine and the civil war bug in the strategic engine in the final version RTW v1.5. They then released the Alexander expansion, and didn't bother fixing those two problems. Those two problems were introduced by patches. I think the butt-spike problem showed up in v1.3, and the civil war problem in v1.5. In fact, the v1.2, v1.3 and v1.5 all introduced new bugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by mad cat mech
:clown: .