Hans,
Damn that is a sensible idea. I fully support it as a compromise. Now, to amend the CA, would I have to send it back to the Outremer chambers for new pre-seconds? I'm thinking of just using my one personal edict to do it.
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Hans,
Damn that is a sensible idea. I fully support it as a compromise. Now, to amend the CA, would I have to send it back to the Outremer chambers for new pre-seconds? I'm thinking of just using my one personal edict to do it.
Hans that is not my concern.
The abillity for the King to set build queue's is already set.
What I am not agreeing with is the wording being changed to allow the King to allocate the Austrian House Province of Damascus to anyone else apart from an Austrian Noble. If there is none available then it is to remain vacant and the King can decide what to build.
THAT is why your wording is not good enough for me.
I do not think amending a proposal needs re-seconding by precedent.
Now, it seems that we have all talked sense and can return to the usual diet business, yes?
It has come to my attention that there is no CA calling for Ajaccio and Cagliari's incorporation into the empire. I assume our Bavarian friends would wish to fix this before the end of the diet?
//[edit]
Duke Arnold, that is exactly what my amendment to CA 12.5 would mean: The Duke may choose if he will allow the King to appoint another or rather the King simply leave it vacant. What this changes from the status-quo is that the county would not remain vacant indefinitely if the Duke wishes to have another rule it.
Duke Arnold,
With Hans's suggestion, you the Duke would have one of two choices regarding Damascus if there is no Austrian Crusader Count.
1.) Let me set the build queues as I wish.
2.) Let me assign a non-Austrian crusader count.
If you do not want a non-Austrian in control of Outremer, then just choose option 1. This allows me a little more flexibility while giving the Dukes more say in how their Ducal territories in Outremer are managed.
What do you think about this?
Gert:
I have not heard any question you asked me Herr Fritz, this Diet is going to fast for someone with my old age.
I believe that such a CA has been properly prepared, just it has yet to be presented to the Diet.
Jan, you could always work with Arnold to set a build que that both of you are happy with, I don't believe that those are the only 2 option.
*Fritz looks up from his reverie to stare at Arnold for a moment, then notes Gert's mouth moving but makes a sign that he can't hear over the clamour. Fritz quickly inks a note and sends it to Gert with a page. Then he looks again at Arnold, slowly shakes his head and resumes reading something large and weighty*
Duke Gerhard,
True, but I am going by what the law would provide. There would need to be "someone" in charge of the build queue. I will not build by committee. According to this CA, the build queue will be goverened by, a house Crusader Count, me, or a non-house Crusader Count. No me/Duke decisions. I'll take suggestions but no province is governed by more than one person at a single time.
Well, It seems like it's Jan's way or the highway....
It is a good thing that the Reich has invested heavily in road production.
In the light of these events, I wish to withdraw my secondment of charter amendment 12.5 as it has become rather...pointless.
Charter Amendment 12.8: Ajaccio and Cagliari are incorporated into the Reich. The Chancellor is directed to trade Cagliari to any foe if it can bring about a peace between our nations
Proposed: Lothar Steffen
Seconded: Mathais Steffen, Gerhard Steffen
Duke Gerhard and Hans,
I am confused, no province in the Reich has more than one person controlling the build queue. While I would work with the Duke in question. It would still have to be up to one person to decide what gets built. Hans's amendment to my CA would provide for the Duke to choose whether it be governed by myself or a non-house crusader count if there is no house crusader count. I am not sure where the "my way or hi-way" comes in. And I am sad that Hans has felt it necessary to withdraw his support of something he himself suggested. I guess running for Chancellor is awfully important to him.
Jan,
The point is that with my amendment to your idea of 12.5, it would have created a middle ground. However, you must understand that if your attitude towards other esteemed members of this diet is so hostile that you prevent its passage even after my attempt to aid you in salvaging it, then I cannot continue to stand behind it as a supporter. This has little to do with the race, but more with being cordial and explaining matters with a cool head. I do not think anyone here would appreciate being talked to in the tone in which you addressed the Dukes earlier.
*Shrug*
It is done. CA 12.5 is unseconded and I instruct the scribes to make clear that it is so. Now that is behind us so let us continue on to other matters.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
A wild-eyed ink stained Scribe wanders into the Diet and speaks in a strained voice.
My goods lords, the list of legislation has been updated.
Please, no more, I have children. When will it end?
Mercy!
He runs screaming.
Thank you, Scribe. Will you do one last service and alter CA 12.7 so that the last "is" is replaced with "are"? I do not want to be responsible for further butchering the grammar in the Charter.
Are we done with the Charter Amendments? Thanks to that poor scribe, we can clearly see something wrong.
That something is the amount of edicts compared to the Charter Amendments.
There are 3 edicts, and 8 CAs.
Does anyone else find that ... abnormal?
I hereby officially rescind CA 12.4 and CA 12.5.
I will instead use my one personal edict to put out on the floor:
Charter Amendment 12.9:
Clause 3.10 is amended to read as follows (changes in bold):
Charter Amendment 11.6 is amended to read as follows (changes in strikeout):Quote:
3.10 Influential players get bonus votes (max +6 bonus)
Appointed Influence (Max 4 points):
Duke: +3
King: +2
Count: +1
Chancellor, ex-Chancellor, or Prince: +1
Stat Influence (Max 2 points):
15 or more total stat points: +1 (I thought about a lower number, but all avatars are given a base 3 piety and base 5 loyalty, which means those points are freebies. So, 15 is only 7 from actual traits, plus the 8 piety and loyalty freebies)
6 or more ranks in one stat: +1 (In the unlikely scenario where a character gets 6 or more in 2 stats without having 15 total, they get this +1 twice)
The player who is Emperor gets bonus votes differently, being equal to his authority.
This legislation ensures that the King will have as much influence as his Crusader Counts while making sure that it is not a guaranteed lifetime appointment. With the stricken out language gone, the old legislation that is still in the Charter will enact. Which means the rest of the stuff in CA 11.6 stays but I will be confirmed by the Kaiser at every Diet. The rest of CA 11.6 is good legislation and should not be removed. I will also remind all of you that making the King appointment a session-by-session appointment was the will of the Kaiser when he made his "rule dispute" ruling the other night. This legislation codifies that wish into law.Quote:
Charter Amendment 11.6: The position of King of Outremer is appointed by the emperor.This appointment lasts for the duration of the emperors reign or the Kings lifetime, whichever is shorter.The King of Outremer is permitted to resign, if the emperor is willing to accept the resignation, upon which a new King is appointed by the emperor. If the King of Outremer is deemed incapable of the assignment, he may be impeached by the emperor and 2 Dukes.
I hope this compromise will prove more palatable to all involved. I welcome any questions any of you may have about this.
Cries of anguish can be heard from the Scribes section as Matthias speaks.
I will second CA 12.9
Elberhard: I will second Charter Amendment 12.9.
And then perhaps the screaming inside my head will stop...
Please make it stop...
Thank you Ebelhard but may I ask,
Why is your head screaming?
Do you need a drink? The tavern is just down the street.
Jens Hummel:
If CA 12.2 is passed then you won't have to worry about this problem in the future.
CA 12.2 will help stop your head from screaming? No offense Jens but I prefer beer for that.
*Lothar raises an eyebrow yet again.*
Well, well. It seems some sense has finally come to Outremer. I will not deny that the King of Outremer should be given more authority than the common Crusader Count. An influence of 2 seems proper to me, as it is above his subordinates, yet below the Dukes themselves. This is as it should be. Furthermore, the abolishment of the appointment for life shows that Jan is truly considering the issue from an objective stance and not exclusively from personal interest.
Therefore I shall also second Charter Amendment 12.9.
*Lothar nods curtly to Jan von Hamburg.*
King Jan, let it not be said that I am totally inflexible.
That said, I still do urge the Diet to vote in favor of Charter Amendment 12.7. As we seem intent to rectify some of the legal conundrums that have abounded since the creation of Outremer, it would be good to finally establish that the Outremer provinces truly are part of the Houses to which they were originally given. Charter Amendment 12.7 ensures that the intent behind the creation of Outremer is upheld.
Jens Hummel:
Or we could eliminate the source of the friggin' screaming altogether.
Arnold
With that I have one more comment.
BEER!!!
Bring me and this entire Chamber gallons of beer!!!
I will cover the cost, just bring it now!!!
With that a stream of page men enter carrying every conceivable type of alcohol known to mankind.
And before anyone says there is a tavern down the road, keep in mind I don't #%^$$#ing care, and I couldn't make it that far without a drink anyway!!
Count Lothar,
I appreciate your words. I still am not in favor of CA 12.7 since I wish to have the ability to keep setting build queues when there are no counts, which the King has always had. I prefer that the Dukes send me Crusader Counts if they can spare them. If there are plenty of counts, then I will have no extra build queues to worry about. But, it is going for a vote and we will see what happens. If it does pass, I wish to speak to every Duke/Steward present so we can work out a building plan for Outremer.
That being said, these CA's already have their seconds but I will voice my support. I support CA 12.6 and CA 12.8. Everyone could use two armies to cover our growing fronts. And with the sacrifices Bavaria made to take Ajaccio, I think it deserves to be incorporated into the Reich.
Jan is interrupted by Duke Arnold's cry for beer.
Beer!?! Whoo hoo!
Jan grabs a mug
King Jan, I would like to point out that if CA 12.7 passes, you will not need to consult with the Dukes or the Kaiser on build queues unless there are insufficient Crusader Counts to govern all of the cities in Outremer. As it stands, you have assigned all provinces to a Crusader Count except Edessa. Therefore the only possible area of outside influence would be the Kaiser's ability to choose what is built in the city and that city alone. Even that would be eliminated if you could attract another Elector to go East.
Count Lothar,
You are absolutely correct. But, I wish to get the Dukes involved right away. What if we have a sudden death in battle of a Crusader Count? I would rather have the Dukes work with me before hand and have them up to speed on Outremer affairs than try to get them up to speed at the last minute. The Dukes have stated that they want to be more involved with Outremer affairs. Four of the provinces are their land after all. And I think that would be better for everyone regardless if CA 12.7 passes or not. A meeting after the Diet would allow me to show them maps and unit dispositions. They can track the progress of the war effort. A lot of men and money is going into Outremer. It is only fair to show them what becomes of it. We keep telling them that the war with the Mongols is dire and important. But, to them, it is so far away. Including them more will help them understand why we are there. If they feel they have a stake, they will be happier with this whole situation.
While it is I who am in command out there, that doesn't mean I do not value the Dukes' opinion.