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I like to answer interesting questions. Your question wasnt.
However, as the Australian aboriginals dont appear much in popular culture, I strongly doubt that they'll get their own faction.
If you mean will there be colonists, I doubt it. The first British convicts sent to Australia left in 1787, and the game is supposed to start in the early 1700's or something.
well the guild isnt here to tell and give geography questions is it?
okay 'mate' as you say on that island,you know the org was made to talk about ca right?
No, I wasn't aware of that.
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Originally Posted by Ozzman1O1
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Originally Posted by Ozzman1O1
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Originally Posted by Ozzman1O1
I'm a bit confused Ozzman101?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzman1O1
Don't worry, you're not the only one. Completely random posting. Maybe it was late at night?Quote:
Originally Posted by TosaInu
Anyway, back to who's in and who's not. Someone somewhere (org?) has made the case for both Morocco and the Barbary States to be in. I like the Barbary states as a kind of random brake on Mediterranean development. How much effort and resource did they deflect away from empire building?. Als, if they had taken a different tack they might have had a much wider impact on the world scene.
:no: I make posts when i come home from shcool,when im still (half smart).....
I think the Barbary states (Morocco, Algiers, Tripoli, Tunis) will be in the game. They have to put SOMETHING down there along the coast of North Africa, and they did have a strong local impact on shipping. But they should be independent rebel factions (IMO) -- the non-expanding type, instead of a single faction. They never united politically, and they were only nominally part of the Ottoman Empire. If they were folded into the Ottoman Empire it would make that faction too strong at the start of the game.
As for potential impact in a "what if" scenario... I don't think the Barbary coast states had the economic base to be a big player on the world stage. They were basically raiders, living off what the major countries were shipping through the Med, or extorting payments for safe passage, and making some side money in the slave trade. I just don't see them having the economic or population base to support big fleets and armies pushing up into Europe, or fighting for territory in the New World.
I think the main "what if" scenario for the Muslims will focus on the Ottoman Empire, which did have a strong navy, economic base and large population for recruitment. History might be different if the Ottomans had managed to contest the European powers for territory in the New World, instead of being bottled up in the Mediterranean.
That's one of the things I'm looking forward to in Empire (assuming it has the kind of DRM I can live with, and can actually buy it).... can the Ottomans hold their power in the East and still manage to do something in the New World? I've tried doing that with the Turks in M2TW but it's not easy due to their starting position, and the Mongols/Timurids right at your back door. It encourages cheese strategies like hopping over to Iberia as a home base right away. The Ottomans should have a better start in Empire, especially if they can quickly take over the "Barbary Coast" provinces.
Agree completely with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenicetus
My "what if" scenario was more about what if they (Barbary States) hadn't raided? How much did they hold the Mediterranean factions like France, Spain and Italian states back? Would they have expanded quicker and more effectively into the "colonial" world?
knock,knock.the british and dutch had africa,seen the movie zulu?any way at that time the ottomans where poor and the most defenselis peaple,the russians invaded them....
That's a good question. I read up some more on this, and the Berber/Arab pirates did have a stronger impact on the Med than I thought. Apparently whole stretches of the Spanish coast (and some parts of the Italian and Sicilian coast) were deserted... basically cleaned out by Berber slave raids. On the other hand, Spain was still able to run colonies in the New World and fight wars with the other European powers during that time, so it's hard to say how much stronger Spain and Italy might have been, if they didn't have that to deal with. I still tend to think it was in the nuisance category, or they would have done what the American Navy did later.... just send a fleet of warships in to bombard the pirates' coastal cities into submission. Or maybe it was just easier to pay tribute since Spain was fairly wealthy during this period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom Onanist
Another thing... Napoleon drove the Templars out of Malta in 1798, and they had been a strong damper on pirate activity in the Med. My understanding is that this led to the expansion of piracy and the slave trade, so it would be interesting to see if they show up as one of the lesser factions in the game. If you could play as Spain and then ally with and support the Templars, piracy might not be such a big deal.
The battle in that movie happened in 1879, well after the period this game will cover (I think it ends in 1820?). I know some people might want South Africa or other sub-Saharan countries included for nationalistic reasons, but historically, it just wasn't a major player on the world stage, and wasn't even that economically important as a colony until much later on. Same reason not to include Australia, basically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzman1O1
With respect, I think you're wrong about the Ottomans during this period being "poor and defenseless." It's true that the period covered by the game is when they were starting to decline from the height of power, but that's what makes them interesting as a main player faction. What if you could engineer a revival of the Empire, expand into Europe, fight for territory and riches in the New World? Given their prior history, it's not an impossible scenario, especially if they had been a little more open to technological advances.Quote:
any way at that time the ottomans where poor and the most defenselis peaple,the russians invaded them....
The Ottomans are the only major non-Western faction we'll get to play, and for many of us they'll be a nice change from the European factions. I think it's great that they're including the Ottoman Empire in the game.
Actually, although Ozzman101 appears to be completely confused:dizzy2: , the Dutch established a colony in South Africa in 1652. It was actually crucial in allowing ships to revictual and as a choke point to control trade lanes to and from the East.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenicetus
They should have a world map, Like Victoria; An Empire under the Sun.
http://a248.e.akamai.net/f/248/5462/...9954_pc_10.jpg
Then again that game maybe to intellectual for SEGA, They tend to market more towards Children.
How many provinces?!!!!!
63,hows that for confused,(im not crazy,im 10 years old,and already learnig this stuff,i bet you guys are in high school!)
Hello Ozzman101,
10 years? Nice that you are interested in this.
Quite some are way past highschool already.
I think CA shouldn't add a lot of provinces, that would took an hour for just one turn.
It's really probably 15-?? I don't expect many younger children playing this game but that's my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper The Builder
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They were pretty much pirating themselves. ~;) Not that the major powers weren't, or not using pirates against each other...Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenicetus
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In 1700 the most powerful nation on Earth was China. Indeed China was strong enough and far enough away to fend off the European imperial powers with mixed success until the 1840's
Talk about "What if" What if China had, in 1700 done what the Japanese did in the Meji revolution in 1850? What if the Chinese had said "You know what, those guys over there can teach us something." and begun modernizing there army and tactics? China in that regard is like the Ottomans; an Empire past its peak but one that if pulled together by a strong emperor or a political revolution of some kind could still be revived, survive and prosper. Especially since in 1700 China was about the size it is now and so was the largest most populous nation on Earth.
I don't see any way they couldn't put China in this game.
I completely agree with that. If theres no CHina, I'll eat my hat.
And Ozzman, I am certian there is to be no Australian Faction. They are a bloody interesting culture, but their involvment in world affairs at this time was very low. No ships, etc. They will probably be represented by a rebel faction.
Though they could put ion a event where it is settleed and is a race between France, England and Holland. Then we Aussies could be speaking French or Dutch...
Well, it all depends on how far you push "what if". What if the Martians had landed? No, china should not be included. Also, although "what if" is what the game ios potentially about it should remain in the general context of the faction you play. So, in M2TW the Mongols are largely horse archers, the English concentrate on Longbowmen etc... If China is included it should be in its proper historical context, ie no access to advanced military techonology and tactics etc... China fended off the West till the 1840s mainly becasue the West didn't turn up in numbers till then as they were busy elsewhere. The inlcusion of China (and others) would just lead to BS units and abilities.
Australia didn't happen till 1788, so I don't think it will be in the game at all.Quote:
And Ozzman, I am certian there is to be no Australian Faction. They are a bloody interesting culture, but their involvment in world affairs at this time was very low. No ships, etc. They will probably be represented by a rebel faction.
To Ozziman, if you're 10, then you are a lot less confused than I was when I was (how long ago wsa that.....).
China won't be included because they made an intentional decision to scrap their ocean-going fleet, and abandon exploration/external conquest. They were very insular and inward-focused during this period (see my other post here about that). To the extent that this game will involve major powers contesting each other on land AND sea, it doesn't make sense to include them.
I like "what if" scenarios, but they're better (IMO) if they're at least somewhat grounded in history. The Ottomans did have a serious, fairly modern navy during this period. They were starting to go into decline, but they're a much better choice for a "what if" scenario of some non-European faction taking over territory in the New World, than the Chinese would be.
I mean, yeah... it might be fun to see some imagined evolution of the medieval Chinese fleets, with monster-sized junks loaded with cannon and rockets. But that's getting a little too close to fantasy for me. If we're going to have a game with China, let's make it a Three Kingdoms game where it be both exciting and historical.
The chinese must have some useful formation,like macedon and the phalanx,like the romans and the testudo...since they created gunpowder
However, it has been pointed out that the Ming Emperors made it illigal to build ocean going ships and destroyed all the ones that had been built. The Qing werent that interested in overseas conquest and spent most of their time putting down rebellions or trying to take back Vietnam.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzman1O1
:wall: What i meant was,the chinese are the most experienced with gunpowder so their probably going to have a useful formation,like that one when the front line shoots and then the peaple behind them get in front of them and shoot,whats it called again??:wall:
I would like to see the option for Norway to rebel against Denmark, and so to have Norway as playable faction. :2thumbsup:
(just kidding)
norway did have there own army,like in the story of the battle of hastings,the norwegians?but i personaly think scandanavian peaple will not be in the game,they had nothing with the 1700 empires