KotR Out of Character Thread V

I agree on the division thing, less so on the pace.
Personally I think its not as easy to deliberate in the diet when your character isn't stationed in Rome or very nearby. That means that you talk through proxy and I would believe talking through proxy is usually kept to a minimum by each player because it does not truly add to immersion in most cases. The other thing of course is that by slowing expansion and playing economical building, a lot less is happening and what is happening is more due to the result of individual stories.

Moving our capital somewhere more central wouldn't help the problem either as then the ones at the outer brim are far away. I do think some more stories connecting the two kingdoms are needed though, unless we want to end up as ERE/WRE. Maybe some combined attack against Russians so our west/east front can coordinate with our eastern north/south front? Problem is that this would require massive expansions in that direction, which may not be too popular among several players. Its quite a dilemma really.

To have a lot of deliberations in the diet either requires losing territory, non natural character deaths, large events or an ongoing war everyone has something to say about. Maybe even a renegade character's actions.

Now as to pace, I felt econ's chancellorship was well paced and only a bit too fast on the first day. Sunday was nicely paced.
Let's face it. If the game isn't continuing in the background, there is little you can deliberate in the diet about unless there is a major threat or issue everyone wants to chuck something in about. If there isn't all that much happening in game, you'd rather want the turns to pass until something actually does happen.

I agree on neither point. Well, I agree that it's important to keep the PBM interesting, but I don't think either point will have the stated effects. Point 1 doesn't work because connecting the two regions with HRE territory will do nothing to bring them closer together. They will still be separated, and the two groups of players will still be divided. The only difference will be that there will be a region of secure and inner territory, which will be lightly garrisoned and under no threat. If anything, the isolation of the two territories is strategically worse, which makes for more excitement.

For Point 2, I don't think there has ever been much discussion between Senate/Diet sessions, unless something weird had happened. You mention Lucjan's Consular term, and the lack of activity therein. That term was absurdly long, and nothing controversial happened, until he decided to... well, I think you know what. If it's just conquer this, defeat that army, make this infrastructure improvement, it should be done quickly. There isn't too much to discuss.

We have hit a bit of a mundane spell, probably because we've been mostly consolidating, something everyone seems to agree with, probably for OOC reasons. Even in WOTS, where most of it was just steamrolling everyone, there were always arguments about in which direction to steamroll. (Why? Why didn't we invade Africa!?) But I do see the reasons for not expanding, so we'll just have to create crisis from somewhere else. I'm a bit disappointed that Kaiser Henry succeeded in resisting the dark side. How crazy would he have to have gotten until he lost support of 2/3 of the Diet, and what sort of stuff would we have passed?

The Mongols are coming up, and are our best hope at the moment. Hopefully, the Outremer will be put in actual danger, some avatars killed, and cities sacked. Still, it won't be that interesting if we all rally together and defeat the evil horde. I'd like to hear cries of incompetence and negligence on the very first setback, especially from back home. After all, we've been winning all our battles in Europe, how is it that we're unable to handle these primitive nomads?

Oh, and we also need someone to cry "keeeeell the Gaaaaauuuuuls!" Have we reincarnated TinCow yet?

my 2 cents...

I think someone was instigating an attack on the Moors. This could be used as a Empire effort? and all lands conquered given to the portuguese, I think they are down to the last province now. But this would drag out more avatars from the main empire, so I am not sure how that would play out for those guarding the home front.

Another way I think is to make the provinces in the middle east another Dukedom, either transferring an entire house there and forfeiting their base in HRE or creating an new family branch. Traditionally, I think this kingdom is not always very strong and lots of favors were asked from their homeland to send more troops, maybe a self imposed recruitment pool from in the middle-east provinces and large troop increase has to be sent from the homeland? Not sure how that would play out as in how the house will repay the favor, etc...

Gameplay mechanics wise, is it better for the Mongols to settle down quick and developed an empire or are we worse off if they stay as a horde... I am thinking since Henry is leading a stack to Edessa? Somewhere along the line, if the Mongols are too passive, we could strike and declared war on them, and then deliberately loose Edessa to them for them to settle down, or is that dependent on the AI too? Can someone comment on this?

Some good points made. I am not sure of the pace you do want things happening and having never been involved in a PBM I thought it was going okay.
However, The Diet has been very quiet and most of the characters are by proxy is a good point and trying to keep it in character makes it difficult. The other issues of two kingdoms is true. I see the division coming and there should be activity in both areas. We are at war with some European Factions and I know the excomm is an issue but I think that could be the challenge. As mentioned Russia is open game. There could be a few more issues to debate maybe we should convene the next Diet at a location for all to attend and discuss issues in person.

Interesting post, GH.

The Diet is quiet, but I don't think you can liken it to the twilight of WotS (just before the Civil War) because there has been a lot of activity in the stories thread. One of the main differences between KotR and WotS is that the story-writing in KotR has been much more developed from the beginning.

So I don't see the PBM in any danger of premature death. The level of player involvement and interaction is still strong. The Austrians are finally getting avatars (AussieGiant should get his avatar a turn or so after I quit). Quite a few of us (Tincow, OK, me etc) are going to be resurrected soon as noobies which should add to the spice. (I had more fun role-playing pushy Numerius Aureolus in WotS than magisterial Quintus.) With quite a few spare avatars, it could also be time to recruit more players.

To get more activity in the Diet, we need issues that cause division and I agree there seem to be fewer of those these days. It seems the Household Armies may have diffused some inter-House tensions: every House is happy to devour its own one province/Diet. The Papist vs anti-Papal issue seems to be dying down. The expansion vs consolidation issue will always rumble on. Perhaps how we deal with the Mongols - aggressive vs cautious - could be a fault line? But it would be good if people could think up "glorious achievement" type goals that we could debate in character whether to follow.

I do like the idea of uniting the Empire, although I am not sure what means. If it means physically uniting the Empire, that would be a very interesting proposal for "expansionists" to make in character although perhaps not one that would gather majority support (our allies the Byzantines being the major stumbling block). Our expedition to Constantinople, the Austrian presence near Thessalonica and the forthcoming crusade to Damascus all make the issue very much on the cards. Henry would oppose it with his dying breath, of course.

What uniting the Empire suggested in my mind was more metaphorical: the idea of bringing the Diet back together so that everyone can participate freely in it. I propose that everyone feel free to speak in person in the Diet, wherever they are. We can fudge the issue of physical location and travel time. How long does it take to sail from Rome to Antioch anyway? Full diet sessions are every 20 years (or whatever), so I think people could make it back in person. It is so much more fun to exorciate your political opponent in person than do so through some mealy-mouthed cipher.

In terms of pace of the game, maybe I went too fast. I'm impatient. But it takes a while in M2TW to achieve anything - thanks to the Pope and slow movement rates, its taken almost 10 turns to get Franconia to Krakow; Swabia to Rheims; Austria to Thessalonica. There was not much to discuss. Bavaria got to Corsica earlier but was then stymied. That last case may have been one where I moved too fast, but the Milan offer of a ceasefire came out of the blue and I am not sure you can save in the middle of such an offer. There have not really been any big issues I have felt we need to stop mid-Diet to chew over. I felt the goals of this term were clear and all that we needed was the execution. I was also keen to get the House of Austria established after nearly five months of waiting.

Problem with making ME a new house is how you divide the family tree. If we had modded the campaign_db file from the get-go to make 5 branches max instead of the default 4, that would be possible now, but lacking that, not really.

While it would have been fun to see econ go dread, he doesn't have long enough to live to do much. Warluster is in a better position there.

Mongols will be a hotly debated topic in future diets, yes, but only if they don't become Mongol domesticus and stay passive. I wouldn't see much reason ICly for the HRE to declare war on the Mongols though to make them active. We also don't have many allies down in the ME that we could actively support.

All we can hope for right now is what I posted above in a mini paragraph. Those are the only real events that will spawn debate.

Oh, and helping Portugal is actually a fine idea StoneCold. Might give us something to do, although the prob is we don't really share any borders and have to walk through hostile territory for that (French and Spanish) and we don't have military access etc with them either. I think there will be some debate at the coming diet about the fate of Constantinople however, that Hans is about to start sieging at the end of Henry's term (the initial plan was to have it taken by the end of his term but troops were delayed...)

A couple of points:

- I am absolutely for everyone meeting at Diet sessions in person. As previously mentioned, it's more fun when you actually argue with a major character instead of his clerk.

- econ and FLYdude make a good point when it comes to pace. However, I don't think we should be blazing through two to three turns a day unless nothing happens, only movement.

- I suppose the only real way to get activity up in the Diet is, as already mentioned, to have a crisis. Preferably public. Speaking from experience, events you engineer are the most fun when the Diet's reaction is loud. I think we should work to always have us in some sort of trouble, then. That way we'll always have something to complain about.

Hmmm I guess with 1.02, the AI keeping more or less to alliances and becoming more player friendly, we also have less events going on. Maybe they all ought to ally against us, although that would just end in slaughter...
Maybe something along the lines of what econ did in Wots by taking over Brutii and planning a massive invasion? I suppose that could be possible in M2TW as well....hmm...I'd actually say if we'd give the AI 20k a turn in the future (instead of 100k total or 10k per turn) we'd get even more challenging battles from those we are at war with. Maybe taking over some of our enemies for a turn to police their building could help too? On the other hand manipulating might also spoil the fun.

Well, here goes hoping a few players have an underground alliance and mess up the empire big time. Or maybe a renegade chancellor plunging us into a dilemma. Nothing like demolishing all churches and gifiting your lands to the nearest enemy :p
Oh wait, this is a PBM :D

On the Moors, we may have to wait a bit as the Portuguese made peace with them on the same turn as we did. They seem a little weak. I'll have to check who, if anyone, is fighting the Portuguese. Maybe the Spanish or someone would be a more worthy enemy. In the long run, we do want to have a western outpost for easy access to America. But we are still a long way off that event.

FH, regarding the Moors, we could go by sea and just hit the 1st Moor province we encountered?

Really wish the Mongols would be aggressive fast or else you guys will have too much time consolidating the Levant for them to pose much threat.... HAHAH... Can't you guys just sent a diplomat and declare war with them? :P

Stupid AI... At least we are no longer allied with the Moors.

yeah it was my idea to attack the moors and spread our influence to help the portuguese

however, i think this should be another kingdom of iberia or something like that, or at least not just giving all territory to portuguese

but another kingdom would increase our reputation for helping portuguese, spread catholicism over the moors and yada yada yada

Can't declare war with a diplomat, only with assassins and troops.

I think Moors or Iberia might be a better target in a few diets time. At the moment, Mongols might be the better target. I would prefer that we only declare on them if they attack an ally, but not for no reason. I guess we could invoke Heinrichan rules to attack Mongols if they trespass, but which noble who governs a province would be bold enough to do that?

well if we attack the moors then we have interest in the west as well as the east, and we can slowly expand back into one unified empire

How do you 'expand' into two different directions to become one 'unified' empire?

capture iberia and outremer and then sandwich everything in between - the kingdoms of iberia and outremer push towards the central roman empire until it is united.

I am worried about all the edicts limiting expansion. Sure, they prevent us from steamrolling the AI, but do they really benefit the game.

When Sigismund was Chancellor, the Reich was in crisis, and we even lost a city(Bologna). Sadly, because of the over cautious approach, we will never be challenged.

we can make an amendment that if one of our cities are taken the chancellor does not need an edict authorizing its recovery

however i do believe we need to save the portuguese. what kind of allies would we be if we let them be destroyed?

We're already assisting the Portuguese because they are at war with France as are we.

I am nearly done with my reign. Two battles for people to fight:

(1) Friedrich Scherer should sally against the French besieging Rheims.

(2) Gerherd Steffen should crush the rebels north of Rome.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/1218-2.zip

Same logistics as before: the 48 hour clock starts ticking now; whoever can play the battle first, download and say you have it.

Please save the pre-battle and post-battle screenshots; I want to know the odds, numbers and losses.

Expansion is only limited if there is an edict against expansion. So far, ever since the end of the crusades there is no such edict but noone seems to propose any edicts that include taking more than 1 settlement/house.

If you were to propose taking multiple settlements on your front and get the support, I don't think the chancellor would try not to fulfill them.

I'm thinking the next chancellor might limit the settlement garrisons to a minimum and generally try to have some open spots for the AI to hit, of course not saying that as election speech :p But yes, that might be one way of provoking attacks.

[edit]
Wow, this has got to be the fastest we got through an OOC thread. Approx 16 days elapsed and almost starting page 18.

After fully reviewing the thread let me add my two cents:

Reintegrating the Crusaders in person into the Diet is a good idea. We have established Outremer, in territory if not legislation. With two year turns, I'm assuming we can shuttle back and forth.

It's a conceit, no doubt, but if it helps enliven the Diet, I'm all for it. The Council of Crusaders can be kept as the "House thread" for Outremer.

Personally, I think the last term went a bit too quickly. I was so busy plotting and writing stories, I didn't have time to make a stink in the Diet about the Milan situation. As soon as I noticed something to comment on, we were a few years past it.

I don't remember blitzing through my term, except for the end, but I'm biased. :laugh4:

Still, I am very happy with the PBM overall. :2thumbsup:

Won't be able to fight the battle until tomorrow so just to let you guys know. You guys may need to autoresolve the battle, but I think i can make it

Hi All,

A couple of things.

1) Using a proxy in the Diet is not really necessary in my view. It's a game, I always portray my guy as an international merchant who was away a lot but that was only because I travel so much for my work that it's hard to maintain a presence in the game. I really think people should just use their main character if it will involve people more. It might not be "realisitic" but it is only a semantic issue. Just turn up, fire off your point and that's that.

2) I do think moving the Crusaders back into the Diet would be best. The Crusader area can be a House thread type area as Ok mentioned.

There's not enough of us in the game to split things up. We need to be in the same room "metephorically speaking" so we can bump heads and get some theme's happening

3) Steamrolling in my view is not going be good for the game. There are two issues. We are invincible in battle and if we expand to critical mass proportions then it's ENTIRELY up to us as the creative component to come up with ideas. If the game can't "cause" issues then we will have to make up some ourselves. If we are invincible plus the super power in the game then we have lost half the creative potential of the game.

We need to activate the mongols gentlemen. Death, cities lost, armies crushed, this is what make roleplaying fun. As I mentioned before role playing with uber characters is only fun for those people that don't like a challenge. I saw time and time again people playing games in which they powered their way through or spent every moment analysing percentages, studying "to hit" charts, checking spell effects that it was just bloody boring.

In the end it is the struggle that was more important to enjoyment than completing the "module" with all the special items and all the best gear. "POWER GAMING" is boring in my opinion.

We need to come up with plausible IC things that cause less invicibility and more uncertainty about characters lives, their ability to complete tasks and general living.

Join the game together but we need some thoughts on how to create theme's. Hell nations make crazy choices, and even did it with concensus among the ruling lords.

Maybe we parlay with the mongols and some tragic misunderstanding leads to full blown conflict. Having studying history it is the smallest things that can lead to the biggest disasters and events in the world.

As a concept that is a good one to consider.

What has disappointed me most has been the lack of "biased Chancellors". So far, all Chancellors have been doing the right thing by everyone. Where are the Chancellors who don't scrupple with deliberately disadvantaging an individual house, or trying to knock off their generals? Those are the things which we are lacking.

Another way to look at that, is that many of the Houses took steps to stay in the favor of the Chancellors so they wouldn't get shanked.

I know I acted as Duke to make sure that Bavaria wouldn't get worked over during Leopold's reign, even though Austrian-Bavarian relations were not at their zenith when he took over. Otto was still fresh from his Papal involvement and had supported Prinz Henry for the Chancellorship. I offered Florence for peace, and had the BHA assist in the defense of Venice partly to stay in Leopold's good graces.

As for my own term, some of the Swabians might disagree with you that I did right by them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ignoramus

When Sigismund was Chancellor, the Reich was in crisis, and we even lost a city(Bologna). Sadly, because of the over cautious approach, we will never be challenged.

---

You are jinxing us. :scared: Read the Diet thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Factionheir

Wow, this has got to be the fastest we got through an OOC thread. Approx 16 days elapsed and almost starting page 18.

---

Another sign that the PBM is healthy, despite a quiet Diet. I suggest we take proposals about the Reich's future direction to the Diet and make them in character.

Let a thousand flowers bloom.

And then we can pull the heads off our rivals' flowers and trash them in debate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xdeathfire

Won't be able to fight the battle until tomorrow so just to let you guys know. You guys may need to autoresolve the battle, but I think i can make it.

---

After Thorn, I won't be autoresolving where I can avoid it. If you can't make it, I'll leave you under siege. But you have quite a lot of time, so you hopefully you can squeeze a battle in. Feel free to move and fight any other battles you want to after breaking the siege. The French are excommed so there is no restraint. But bear in mind that France is strong and you have a lot of real estate to protect.

I'm sorry I haven't read all of the new stuff, but ever since reading GHs post and the first couple of answers I had one thing in my mind that I just have to tell you guys. Skimming further along I saw people discussing about the advantages and disadvantages of going against the Moors?

Now why don't we discuss this in the Diet, I ask myself? That would put life in the Diet right away and there's no need to discuss this OOC. Sorry to point those out, not trying to attack anyone here. It was just one of my first thoughts after reading GHs post that the last thing we need right now is another OOC discussion, while many things can be discussed IC in the Diet, and you have just proven my point.

Now I agree that the ability for everyone to speak in person in the Diet is a good result of this debate, and I also felt that the Chancellorship of econ21 was a little bit too fast for my liking. I wonder if I'll manage to finish the coop story with Kagemusha in time for the next Chancellorship. Another thing was that I would have liked to comment on some of Henrys decisions but they were gone so fast my response would have looke way out of place.

Either way, I think the main solution for more activity in the Diet is to just go ahead and post there. Think up controversial issues and promote them. Argue, fight, anything. Just because the main players are gone to Outremere doesn't mean we have to sit back an relax. I think that with the old players getting new avatars we will see a new rise in Diet activity and I think we should be able to solve this problem without adding any more rules or OOC constructs or whatever. Set goals IC and argue for them. Otherwise if we set our goals in OOC we just push them through IC and the Diet is quiet.

Well, that was a lot of rambling, but I hope my points came across. If not, feel free to ask. :beam:

On and as a side not: I'm very happy to take part in this PBM and absolutely enjoy playing with you guys. No insults were intended through my writing and I love y'all! ~:grouphug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ituralde

I wonder if I'll manage to finish the coop story with Kagemusha in time for the next Chancellorship.

---

You should have enough time - it will be five to eight days before the next Chancellor starts playing the game.

Apologies for rushing. Feel free to comment on Henry's decisions when he steps down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by econ21

You should have enough time - it will be five to eight days before the next Chancellor starts playing the game.

Apologies for rushing. Feel free to comment on Henry's decisions when he steps down.

---

Yeah, more an exaggeration than actual fact that first statement. And rest assured that Leopold will have to say something about his brothers decisions. :beam:

Upon reading GH's comments my first thoughts were the same as Ituralde's, much of the OOC thread could be put IC. Most of what I was thinking has been said, 'activate' the mongols is a good Idea....IIRC the idea behind the houses was to introduce some competition, and conflict into the faction we are playing as, which isn't happeneing as much as it did earlier. Many people (myself included) don't want to make a big stink IC as to not offend people OOC.


I'll dl the save and fight the battle tonight (aprox. 10 hours)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stuperman

I'll dl the save and fight the battle tonight (aprox. 10 hours)

---

Good man. I suggest you go first, then xdeathfire if he can find the time. If he does not, it's not the end of the world if he is besieged in Rheims for a turn.

I will take possession of the savegame again on Sunday morning and try to bring my period in office to a close, pressing end turn for 1218.

Well gentlemen I think we have reached a new stage in our respective relationships. :laugh4:

What we say in the Diet stays in the Diet and wont be taken badly by anyone intentionally.

If everyone says "Amen Brother"...then lets get stuck into the Diet and have some fun.

If it gets out of hand then we can have beers and talk about girls or something.

Deal??

"Amen Brother"

Deal,

Amen Brother

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stuperman

Amen Brother

---

:yes:

So say we all.

Alright then...everyone to the Bat Cave, we've got work to do...

:book: :balloon2:

jees I'm such a doork!!:inquisitive:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/?C=M;O=D

Battle was won, I attacked from a hill just right of the road, and the rebels ran all the way across the river. Gerhard is about -2 command stars net, despite just earning 'Proven Commander' and I don't like the look of that inquisitor....

https://img66.imageshack.us/img66/1371/setupbx3.th.jpg

https://img185.imageshack.us/img185/4887/bb1xa7.th.jpg

Good work - I want to get Steffen to an abbey asap. Those witch's vices will affect your offspring. I hope factionheir has been generous with his trait removal coding. Bavaria's borders look secure for now, so hopefully we can give the BHA some R&R for a while. After squashing the inquisitor.

xdeathfire: over to you.

I'm assuming the savegame is:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/1218-3.rar

If you can't find the time, I'll play on tomorrow morning.

FH, or anyone,

I just realised I have not installed FH's ancillary fixes.

Can they be applied when ever or do you have to start a new game once you have installed it?

Scratch that...I just read the "read me" file it is retroactive. Still I'm not very good at this type of patching so I have not done it. Will this affect the game when I get Arnold?

econ: As mentioned a few pages back, the vices (Cursed, StrickenSilly, StrickenSerious) do not affect offspring

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

other than that they have a lower chance of getting NaturalMilitarySkill due to Steffen having an overall lower command attribute. Hypochondriac can affect them somewhat. 50% chance I think it was. But that will only bump off the Sane trait first. You need 2x an AntiTrait to Sane for it to actually appear.

AG: The person who plays the last battle during the AI turn affects the offspring that come out depending on what they got installed.
Although tbh I have not yet gotten around to test what:

Code:

---

      <age_of_manhood_close uint="14"/>

---

in the descr_campaign_db.xml (not included in the fixes) does. Whether it is to determine if you get more generals or not as opposed to whether this is the point when the trait file runs the checks for the kid that is about to come of age. If its the latter, then the kids already have their trait sets done and ready, if its the former, then its as I said at the start.

Hi FH,

Ok so your explanation of the effects is clear thanks for that. i.e. If I play the last battle as Arnold and I do not have your fix installed than it will revert to the 1.02 v/v and ancillaries for the next turns assessment.

So...I'm a little confused as to following your instructions in the read me file though.

Can you help at all?

Once I have done it for the first time then I'm set.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AussieGiant

Hi FH,

Ok so your explanation of the effects is clear thanks for that. i.e. If I play the last battle as Arnold and I do not have your fix installed than it will revert to the 1.02 v/v and ancillaries for the next turns assessment.

So...I'm a little confused as to following your instructions in the read me file though.

Can you help at all?

Once I have done it for the first time then I'm set.

---

AG I was sending you a little help by PM but you inbox is full.

Just fought the battle and won with 125 losses. Save is uploaded. A bit busy right now so I will put up pictures and the battle report later

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Northnovas

AG I was sending you a little help by PM but you inbox is full.

---

Emptying now!!

Yes, that's pretty much right what you said.

What is with the readme file that you don't understand?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Yes, that's pretty much right what you said.

What is with the readme file that you don't understand?

---

Hey FH, ignore me. Your "read me" is crystal clear.
Northnovas held my hand :laugh4:

I just have anally retentive behaviour when it comes to things like that. Just a quick question though. I have not used this bit;
-----------
Now to apply those fixes, you will need to run your medieval game exe using a shortcut or a bat file.
The target of said file should read similar to this:

D:\Medieval\medieval2.exe --io.file_first

Where "D:\Medieval\" varies depending on your installation but medieval2.exe --io.file_first should be constant.

If you encounter any issues with my fixes, please let me know via any means you feel necessary and I will investigate.
As per current version, there are no errors showing up in the medieval error log that are from these fixes.
-----------
As I didn't really know what to do. Does it really make a difference? I run MIITW from a desktop exe so that is fine right?

Well actually that is the important bit. Without that bit, it is as if the files were not in your folder at all. Having the files there and running without the file_first is as if you were playing vanilla 1.02. With the switch, the files are activated for the current gaming session only.

What you can do basically is make an identical shortcut as the one you got on your desktop already and just in the target section, where it points to your medieval2.exe in your medieval folder, add --io.file_first after it.
So the section would look as in the post above. Depending on your system, it may have to read:
"D:\Medieval\medieval2.exe" --io.file_first

Where D:\Medieval\ is your medieval2 folder

I clicked end turn for 1218 and Prinz Jobst has got into a nasty fight. Warluster has 48 hours to fight it, otherwise it's an autoresolve.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/1218-6.zip

Contrary to what you might think from the story I am about to post, I did nothing out of character to spark this fight. It's just one of those quirky things M2TW does and I've tried to provide a story to rationalise it.

Looks like we've run afoul of the ambush glitch. If an army is in ambush position, i.e. kneeling at the end of the turn, it'll attack any force, neutral or enemy that wanders into it's ZOC. I guess the fact this is a crusader army makes no difference.

It's a silly mechanic, because it gives you no choice. Like if you have an army of four units in hiding, the computer will trigger an ambush attack against a full stack.

weird.. nvr had a successful ambush ever in RTW... btw, those this meant instant excom?

We attacked an army on Crusade, even if it's against our will, and the instant that happened, excommed. Even if we retreat from the battle, we're already booted out.

This is an unforseen development.

Edit: On a brighter note, this will encourage "discussion" in the Diet. :laugh4:

Good write up econ, a plausible rationale for the computer's crack headed actions.

true... and Jerusalem is still in our hands... too bad now we can't form part of the crusade we called for... Probably worse if we captured Damascus and have to defend against the Crusade... hahaha... That maybe a fun idea to try, everyone attacking us, except hopefully the Eastern Romans...

Edit. Btw, just read the imperial diet thread and realised we are still allied with the Pope, what will remain of this alliance? Will they break it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StoneCold

... and Jerusalem is still in our hands...

---

Jerusalem is Papal.

Yes alliance with the pope gets broken when you get excommed.
Did anyone try retreating yet and whether it would still result in excomm? I can't remember if would. Still, would show good faith if we retreated, but that decision is to be made ICly.

My bad, I posted poor info in the Diet, I've edited my post to reflect the change. We lost our alliance and mil access when we got excommed.

Hmmm, maybe we should hope for a non-Imperial Crusader vs Mongols deathmatch outside Damascus. That would be sweet.

Edit: As soon as the computer initiated the ambush, we got excommed, retreat doesn't change it, unfortunately.

I can't believe this just happened.

Last night I played on from the save and that this is exactly what I saw. I thought I was on drugs or something, but obviously it is real!!

Jesus, we've just had every Christian nation on the planet drop us to Abysmal and we've been excommed to boot.

This is bloody crazy!! :dizzy2:

So the neighbour hood just went in the shitter that's for sure.

Well, I guess on the bright side we can fight without the threat of excomm...or should I rather say, the cease/desist missions from the pope all expired on excomm - Makes life easier even after getting reconciled.

Still, I think the next chancellor needs gets to get us reconciled again.

ya, but garrisoning needs to go up again to prevent riots.

That's not all that bad - we ought to have some higher border garrisons anyway after the debacle at Thorn.

To be honest, I'm liking what the AI forced onto us. Finally something to enliven the diet :D

Ya, too bad that happen after the massive troop reduction/upgrade of Henry's term... :P

Going north all the way might be a good way to secure at least a border of Franconia and nabbing us the rich trade region of the baltic sea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xdeathfire

Just fought the battle and won with 125 losses. Save is uploaded. A bit busy right now so I will put up pictures and the battle report later

---

You might want to put a placeholder down in the battle reports thread. What were the French losses? (I'm compiling a table of all battles this reign).

Just to clarify did we ambush a Crusading army or did they ambush us and the end result is an excommunication?

Think the imperial army was in ambush mode, off road and in some ambush terrain, waiting for the next turn and the Danish Crusading army went by us in their turn, automatically triggering the ambush. This result in us attacking a crusading army thus the excomm.

Thanks, I just read the story thread good story econ to cover the game mechanics. The Sawbians will be in the hotseat in the Diet.

COOL, COOL!!! I've always wanted an excuse to go after the Baltic, I was thinking of proposing Riga as a target but this is even better!!!

although the excomm thing is unfortunate, still I'll get the save sometime tomorrow and have a look for my self. How's sicily like us???? As duke this might be fun....

Lord preserve us from "Duke Stuperman" :p

Sicily is still our ally, we shouldn't piss them off as they are a key to being reconciled. Remember, if a Pope vote comes up, they'll vote for our Cardinals, and if we vote for their candidates we can rebuild our shattered standing.

IIRC we got 50% of the college already, don't we?

I know, just it's saturday night and I'm "getting merry"

Well, don't worry. There's still 3 more levels of the Drink trait you can get :D

Just did battle report. It looks like the French has some pretty large armies near our borders. I think Swabia will have alot of battles in the next term.

I'm downloading the save now, I couldn't work the patch before but it works perfecto now!

How ironic that we where all talking about ways to liven things up.

If econ dumps about 100k on each nation it should turn into a real blood bath.

I just won the battle.

It was just like killing those rebels, but easier, but it was pretty confusing as I couldn't see anything due to trees...

ANyway,I am uploading save as 1220kotr-1.

I also killed the Danish Prince! yay! I am writing battle Report/Story right now.

Hi Warluster,

Good job. I thought the odd were heavily against you.

They were by 600 men :) only lost about 90 though, They lost about 600 themselves. Poor danish prince got a crossbolt in the head. Least trouble for later at least!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Warluster

They were by 600 men :) only lost about 90 though, They lost about 600 themselves. Poor danish prince got a crossbolt in the head. Least trouble for later at least!

---

How the hell do you kill an army with double the numbers and only lose 90 soldiers?

Scratch that, it seems pretty obvious now. You're fighting spearmen with DFK in a forest.

Has anyone seen our production differences from the rest of the nations? It's complete domination.

The good news is that Arnold has come of age and he's a little cracker!! I finally have an avatar after 5 months!!! WHOOO HOOOO!!