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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Okay, some general thoughts:
IMO, this current economic crisis is actually making both candidates look very bad. Instead of coming out and talking about real, concrete policies (not idealized ones), they're just spouting rhetoric. McCain rants against the "greed of Wall Street" (which, by the way, makes it possible for the mortgages of most homes in the nation to occur) and Obama constantly attacks the republican administration that made this possible. Thats all nice, but we've heard this many times before so why don't think come out with a real attempt at a policy even rather than talk for the poll numbers?
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
This, sadly, is about par for American politics.
Oh, CNN informs us why Obama isn't leading by a lot:
We're all bigots and racists.
CR
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
While I don't think race is an overriding factor in this election, I do believe it's worth a few percentage points in the polls. In a close election, a few points might decide it.
While both candidates have spoken out against the poor business decisions that lead to the current "adjustment" in Wall Street and have spoken generally about fixing the system, what does that mean specifically?
McCain has supported deregulation in the past. Before 1999, insurers, investment houses and banks were kept seperated, in regulations that had developed from the financial crisis that led to the Depression. This was to ensure a future financial crisis in one area wouldn't carry over to another. However, this bill took down those walls.
The sponsor of the bill? Phil Gramm, who you might remember was Senator McCain's Economic Adviser
before being thrown under the bus when he said the US was in a "mental recession".
So which candidate should be trusted to clean up the mess? The one who helped make it, or the one who wasn't in the Senate at the time?
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OverKnight
So which candidate should be trusted to clean up the mess? The one who helped make it, or the one who wasn't in the Senate at the time?
Clearly, the one who can't make the same mistake twice! :beam:
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CrossLOPER
Clearly, the one who can't make the same mistake twice! :beam:
Well its seems according to the pundits that McCain might of tried to stem the crisis off back in 2006 with legislation to bring more regulation to the investment banking and mortage industries.
And then they are also announcing that Obama was the number 2 receipant of money from the Fanny May right behind Senator Dodd.
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Congratulations Obama supporters. Your guy just put out an Ad calling McCain and Rush Limbaugh part and parcel of the same package in his new Hispanic ad.
This is like saying Elliot Ness and Organized Crime are the same thing. Two opposing sides on the Immigration issue, but since they are mentioned in the same sentence, they must be the same thing!
This is and outright dishonest Ad. It is safe to call the originator of this ad a liar. I wonder what Lemur thinks about it?
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TuffStuffMcGruff
This is and outright dishonest Ad.
Wasn't there a McCain ad accusing Obama of supporting/creating a bill that taught sex ed to kindergartners, when really it was to tell the about "bad" spots and sexual predators? Any outrage over there, Tuff?
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Tuff's very right. The second Limbaugh quote is completely ripped from context and is an outright lie.
CR
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SwedishFish
Wasn't there a McCain ad accusing Obama of supporting/creating a bill that taught sex ed to kindergartners, when really it was to tell the about "bad" spots and sexual predators? Any outrage over there, Tuff?
Did the law that he supported allow for children who were kindergartners or older to be taught about sex and sexually transmitted diseases when the previous statute limited the grade to 6th?
A new kind of politics. Change we can believe in. Hope. Change. Bleep. Blorp.
The reality is that this is a lie and an abuse of truth worse than I have seen yet directly from one campaign or the other. The others were arguable and probably dirty, but this one takes the cake. I'm sure there will be more - but the deluge has begun. Better put on your :daisy: helmets; chinstrap and all.
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TuffStuffMcGruff
Did the law that he supported allow for children who were kindergartners or older to be taught about sex and sexually transmitted diseases when the previous statute limited the grade to 6th?
I would have no idea, all I know is that the law was not the "STD CONDOMS" sex ed McCain made it out to be, but more of the "Strange man, bad spots" kind. Which, honestly, is something we could use in this time of creeps.
Quote:
A new kind of politics. Change we can believe in. Hope. Change. Bleep. Blorp.
McCain's doing what exactly? Isn't he spreading the "CHANGE" message?
Quote:
The others were arguable and probably dirty, but this one takes the cake. I'm sure there will be more - but the deluge has begun. Better put on your :daisy: helmets; chinstrap and all.
When your opponents compare you to a Muslim Commie, and your presidential opponent says you want to teach kindergarteners about genitalia, that's "arguable and probably dirty"? Hello?
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Apparently Palin's yahoo email account was hacked?
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sasaki Kojiro
Apparently Palin's yahoo email account was hacked?
Yes, poor Palin, I honestly do feel bad for her ever since she came into the election. Poor soul.....
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SwedishFish
I would have no idea, all I know is that the law was not the "STD CONDOMS" sex ed McCain made it out to be, but more of the "Strange man, bad spots" kind. Which, honestly, is something we could use in this time of creeps.
No, it wasn't. Obama lied. The bill changed the grades to be taught comprehensive sex-ed to k-12, from 6-12:
Quote:
8 (a) No pupil shall be required to take or participate in
9 any class or course in comprehensive sex education if the
10 pupil's parent or guardian submits written objection
11 thereto, and refusal to take or participate in such course or
12 program shall not be reason for suspension or expulsion of
13 such pupil. Each class or course in comprehensive sex
14 education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall
15 include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted
16 infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread
17 of HIV. Nothing in this Section prohibits instruction in
18 sanitation, hygiene or traditional courses in biology.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...2I2MGY=&w=MA==
CR
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sasaki Kojiro
Apparently Palin's yahoo email account was hacked?
Yep - that stinks. They should find and prosecute whoever broke in.
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Crazed Rabbit
Thank you for the information.
Quote:
No pupil shall be required to take or participate in
9 any class or course in comprehensive sex education if the
10 pupil's parent or guardian submits written objection
11 thereto, and refusal to take or participate in such course or
12 program shall not be reason for suspension or expulsion of
13 such pupil
Least there's some kind of upside.......
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TuffStuffMcGruff
This is and outright dishonest Ad. It is safe to call the originator of this ad a liar. I wonder what Lemur thinks about it?
It's nice to have so many people concerned with my feelings. I'd say it's a pretty awful ad, and it should be taken off the air. Then again, I'm shocked to see people still defending the McCain ad about how Evil Obama wants to teach Kindergarten students about oral sex. You people kill me.
Note that the sex ed bill left everything for the school districts to decide in terms of what was "age appropriate." Little detail, that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sasaki Kojiro
Apparently Palin's yahoo email account was hacked?
Yup, and this is especially interesting since she and her staff were using "personal" accounts to avoid leaving any paper trail in the governorship. Yay obsessive secrecy!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TuffStuffMcGruff
Yep - that stinks. They should find and prosecute whoever broke in.
Not so clear on this one, especially if it's true that she and her staff were conducting state business behind the veil of "personal" accounts. Wikileaks is going to host something from the Yahoo account, not sure what.
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemur
It's nice to have so many people concerned with my feelings. I'd say it's a pretty awful ad, and it should be taken off the air.
Good
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemur
Not so clear on this one, especially if it's true that she and her staff were conducting state business behind the veil of "personal" accounts. Wikileaks is going to host something from the Yahoo account, not sure what.
Was it against the law what was done to her account? Was it right? Does it depend on what was in the account? I don't remember hearing that she should be wiretapped or have her personal files taken over... But I guess that is what we do to people now. I thought it depended on the rulings of a court as to whether her personal accounts are relevant to a case or not. I forgot that she is guilty until proven innocent, so right and wrong regarding someone breaking into her account is "Not so clear on this one".
You really hate Palin, don't you?
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Crazed Rabbit
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...on_sex_ed.html
~:handball:
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TuffStuffMcGruff
Was it against the law what was done to her account? Was it right? Does it depend on what was in the account?
You really hate Palin, don't you?
Of course it was against the law. Was it right? Possibly. If you are hiding illegal activity in your Gmail account, do you have a right to keep it hidden? If you're an elected official?
"Does it depend on what was in the account?" Hell yes. Ask lawyer about this one.
"You really hate Palin, don't you?" I loathe her exactly as much as I would loathe four more years of George W. Bush. I think she's cut from the same pattern on the same cloth. Do we really need another national leader who is certain all the time, whether it's warranted or not? Another incurious, anti-intellectual Decider? How stupid do we really want to be?
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sasaki Kojiro
Dammit! I honestly believed CR.
DAMN YOU XENU!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemur
Of course it was against the law. Was it right? Possibly. If you are hiding illegal activity in your Gmail account, do you have a right to keep it hidden? If you're an elected official?
"Does it depend on what was in the account?" Hell yes. Ask lawyer about this one.
"You really hate Palin, don't you?" I loathe her exactly as much as I would loathe four more years of George W. Bush. I think she's cut from the same pattern on the same cloth. Do we really need another national leader who is certain all the time, whether it's warranted or not? Another incurious, anti-intellectual Decider? How stupid do we really want to be?
DON'T BLINK Lemur, whatever you do...
What we really need is a candidate who invented the blackberry :laugh4:
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SwedishFish
Dammit! I honestly believed CR.
DAMN YOU XENU!!!!!!!!!!
Fact Check = check mate............NEXT!
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
m52nickerson
Fact Check = check mate............NEXT!
I DEMAND A RECOUNT
err
REMATCH
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
A little more detail about Palin's use of personal email to avoid da law:
Palin routinely uses a private Yahoo e-mail account to conduct state business. Others in the governor's office sometimes use personal e-mail accounts, too.
The practice raises questions about backdoor secrecy in an administration that vowed during the 2006 campaign to be "open and transparent."
Even before the McCain campaign plucked Palin from Alaska, a controversy was brewing over e-mails in the governor's office. Was the administration trying to get around the public-records law through broad exemptions or private e-mail accounts?
Activists, still fighting to obtain hundreds of e-mails that were withheld from public-records requests earlier this year, say that's what it looks like. [...]
State lawyers say that the governor's e-mails about public business should be treated like any other public record, even if she's sent them through a private account such as Yahoo.
Some of her aides also routinely use Yahoo, but even messages sent from one private account to another should be public, if they concern public business, said Dave Jones, an assistant attorney general.
"The difficulty is finding out they exist," Jones said.
Yay obsessive secrecy! The public wants to see the Governor's records? I piss on those peasants!
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemur
A little more detail about Palin's use of personal email to
avoid da law:
Palin routinely uses a private Yahoo e-mail account to conduct state business. Others in the governor's office sometimes use personal e-mail accounts, too.
The practice raises questions about backdoor secrecy in an administration that vowed during the 2006 campaign to be "open and transparent."
Even before the McCain campaign plucked Palin from Alaska, a controversy was brewing over e-mails in the governor's office. Was the administration trying to get around the public-records law through broad exemptions or private e-mail accounts?
Activists, still fighting to obtain hundreds of e-mails that were withheld from public-records requests earlier this year, say that's what it looks like. [...]
State lawyers say that the governor's e-mails about public business should be treated like any other public record, even if she's sent them through a private account such as Yahoo.
Some of her aides also routinely use Yahoo, but even messages sent from one private account to another should be public, if they concern public business, said Dave Jones, an assistant attorney general.
"The difficulty is finding out they exist," Jones said.
Yay obsessive secrecy! The public wants to see the Governor's records? I piss on those peasants!
For a guy constantly ridiculing the government and its ability to do anything right, you sure seem to think that they know how to do evil things well. They are amazing illusionists and fraudsters, but they can't balance the budget or solve the economic crisis. Idiot savants of misdeeds, eh.
Do you use a personal e-mail account at work? Do wires occasionally cross? Who says that she is conducting "secret state business"? Shouldn't a court decide if she is guilty of defrauding the system or if her personal e-mails are open to the public, or is that the job of Swedish hackers.
I'm reminded of the Huckabee quote; "AP found out that Sarah Palin sometimes rips or cuts tags off of pillows and mattress in her own home in spite of the many warnings telling her she must not do this - more at 10"
You should really give the partisan hackery a try - you are getting so good at it!
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
In attempt to talk about issues..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sasaki Kojiro
McCain's health care plan is about opening the market and cutting back on Gov regulations. That has worked so well with the current economy.
If McCain's plan go through I would pay more in tax because of my insurance through work then I would get in a tax break.
Now that is the way to help the American workers who, as McCain said, are the fundamentals of the economy. :inquisitive:
Between McCain's health care plan which is a huge step backwards, and his wanting a commision on the economy he will drive this country into the ground.
Obama at least has an economic plan. http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/economyplan
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sasaki Kojiro
I said Obama lied, when he claimed that it was just about teaching kids about sex predators. And he did lie. As can be seen, that doesn't mean the other guy didn't lie as well.
CR
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TuffStuffMcGruff
For a guy constantly ridiculing the government and its ability to do anything right [...]
I'm sorry, you must have me confused with a Republican talking point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TuffStuffMcGruff
Shouldn't a court decide if she is guilty of defrauding the system or if her personal e-mails are open to the public, or is that the job of Swedish hackers.
It's beyond mattering at this point. If Anonymous and Wikileaks are interested in publishing, they will, and no court in the world is going to stop it. Hell, the Scientologists can't stop that combo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TuffStuffMcGruff
You should really give the partisan hackery a try - you are getting so good at it!
Oh, I'm just another bitter ex-McCain supporter. There are lots of us. I think maybe it's the lies that make us mean.
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Crazed Rabbit
I said Obama lied, when he claimed that it was just about teaching kids about sex predators. And he did lie. As can be seen, that doesn't mean the other guy didn't lie as well.
CR
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...on_sex_ed.html
Quote:
Obama: We have a existing law that mandates sex education in the schools. We want to make sure that it's medically accurate and age-appropriate. Now, I'll give you an example, because I have a six-year-old daughter and a three-year-old daughter, and one of the things my wife and I talked to our daughter about is the possibility of somebody touching them inappropriately, and what that might mean. And that was included specifically in the law, so that kindergarteners are able to exercise some possible protection against abuse, because I have family members as well as friends who suffered abuse at that age. So, that's the kind of stuff that I was talking about in that piece of legislation.
~:handball:
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Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Crazed Rabbit
I said Obama lied, when he claimed that it was just about teaching kids about sex predators. And he did lie. As can be seen, that doesn't mean the other guy didn't lie as well.
CR
No were does it say that Obama lied. Plus the bill talks about "age-appropriate" and how to say know to sexual advances. How would that no help child against sexual predators?
CR your claim has been proven wrong, lets move on.
