U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Yup, sad but true.

Meanwhile, the V.P. candidate who nobody is allowed to have at a press conference, whose press access is severely restricted, is also getting special treatment for the debates. 'Cause she's so ready to lead.

McCain advisers said they had been concerned that a loose format could leave Ms. Palin, a relatively inexperienced debater, at a disadvantage and largely on the defensive.

The wrangling was chiefly between the McCain-Palin camp and the nonpartisan Commission on Presidential Debates, which is sponsoring the forums.

Commission members wanted a relaxed format that included time for unpredictable questioning and challenges between the two vice-presidential candidates. On Wednesday, the commission unanimously rejected a proposal sought by advisers to Ms. Palin and Senator John McCain of Arizona, the Republican presidential nominee, to have the moderator ask questions and the candidates answer, with no time for unfettered exchanges.

What a long, tedious joke.

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Wait wait wait. What I've understood was that Obama and McCain are using a much more relaxed than usual forum - While Biden and Palin are using the style that has been used for years. The reason that there is a disparity is that Obama and McCain just agreed to a different format. When you hear it like that does it sound like kids gloves or that Obama and McCain are groundbreakers?

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Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff

When you hear it like that does it sound like kids gloves or that Obama and McCain are groundbreakers?

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Well, what does this sound like to you?

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Originally Posted by Article

On Wednesday, the commission unanimously rejected a proposal sought by advisers to Ms. Palin and Senator John McCain of Arizona, the Republican presidential nominee, to have the moderator ask questions and the candidates answer, with no time for unfettered exchanges.

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Sounds like they are protecting Palin from big bad Biden.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Well, what does this sound like to you?

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Well if they haven't asked for kid gloves and are just doing it the way that is has been done, they haven't opted for a lighter system. The article makes it sound like McCain is looking to lighten the format.

Lets let people make up their own minds when they see the debate. No use making an issue out of it now (unless you are trying to score political points before the event even occurs). People will be pissed if they think that she got it easy in the debate.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Well, what does this sound like to you?

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Like the normal presidential debates we've had lately. Did you make such a fuss when Obama ditched the idea of joint town halls over the summer?

CR

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Like the normal presidential debates we've had lately. Did you make such a fuss when Obama ditched the idea of joint town halls over the summer?

CR

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....but the four presidential debates will be a more open style. So why can't the VP debate be the same?

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Like the normal presidential debates we've had lately. Did you make such a fuss when Obama ditched the idea of joint town halls over the summer?

CR

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McCain ditched the idea of joint town halls.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

McCain ditched the idea of joint town halls.

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That's news to me. I'm interested in a link if you've got one.

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Originally Posted by m52nickerson

....but the four presidential debates will be a more open style. So why can't the VP debate be the same?

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Because the McCain camp wanted to protect Palin. But its not like they went to extraordinary lengths.

CR

Anyways, figured I'd update y'alls about some goings-on:
Obama is a filthy, filthy liar. He's outright lying about what McCain will do:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...g_seniors.html
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...y_whopper.html

The NH Union Leader editorial:

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We wonder what those same voters think of Obama's sincerity now. In the past few weeks, Obama has thrown so many false accusations against John McCain that just keeping track of them has become difficult. And these aren't innocent errors. They are deliberate distortions of the sort Obama has always said he reviles.
...
Yet here he is violating his own professed standards. This is not the Barack Obama so many voters in New Hampshire and elsewhere thought they knew. But it is the real Barack Obama. For despite his rhetoric, he is in fact campaigning so dishonestly that even The Washington Post and The New York Times have called him on it. Which means that he is in practice no different from those regular politicians against whom his entire campaign has been built.

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CR

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Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff

That's news to me. I'm interested in a link if you've got one.

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Essentially it went like this:

McCain: I propose 10 town hall debates
Obama: I counteroffer with 2 town hall debates in addition to the 3 regular debates, let's negotiate
McCain: ...


a couple months later--


McCain (when asked about negative ads): It's a shame it's come to this, and I wish senator obama hadn't refused to meet me in town hall debates...

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec...e_between.html mentions it

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Anyways, figured I'd update y'alls about some goings-on:
Obama is a filthy, filthy liar. He's outright lying about what McCain will do:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...g_seniors.html
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...y_whopper.html

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Aha, how dumb is that? Why can't he just describe how bad mccain's plan is without wildly exaggerating? :dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

The NH Union Leader editorial:

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More Columns >>>

* > Charles Krauthammer: Bush could be the next Harry Truman (9)
* > John Stossel: Barack Obama and white privilege
* > Deroy Murdock: America is turning into a democratic-socialist state (1)
* > Thomas Sowell: Obama is little more than the idol of crowds (4)
* > Jonah Goldberg: Obama mocks McCain's war injuries (17)
* > Byron York: Yes, Obama did support sex-ed for kindergartners (12)
*> Crazed Rabbit: Obama is a filthy filthy filthy (x2) liar; McCain only speaks the truth (8)

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:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Aha, how dumb is that? Why can't he just describe how bad mccain's plan is without wildly exaggerating? :dizzy2:

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True very true. Now McCain and Obama are exchanging exaggerated adds.

Here is an article which I think really address's the politics and nature of the U.S.

It's a point blank salvo at anyone who thinks Obama is anything real or new.
It also blows up the idea some conservatives and Republicans on this board have that the media (men like Pilger are most definitely liberal) is constantly against them and in favour of the Dems.

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Obama, the prince of bait-and-switch

24 Jul 2008

In his latest column for the New Statesman, John Pilger describes the devaluing of civilian casualties in colonial wars, and the anointing of Barack Obama, as he tours the battlefields, sounding more and more like George W. Bush.

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http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=497

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Aha, how dumb is that? Why can't he just describe how bad mccain's plan is without wildly exaggerating? :dizzy2:

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He's just another ambitious politician. You really think he's going to make any major changes?

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More Columns >>>
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

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Surely you can do better than just logical fallacies.

Anyways, here's an in-depth report on covert anti-GOP slime and rumor campaigns by professional PR firms with ties to Obama:
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/194057.php

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Extensive research was conducted by the Jawa Report to determine the source of smears directed toward Republican Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin. Those smears included false allegations that she belonged to a secessionist political party and that she has radical anti-American views.

Our research suggests that a subdivision of one of the largest public relations firms in the world most likely started and promulgated rumors about Sarah Palin that were known to be false. These rumors were spread in a surreptitious manner to avoid exposure.

It is also likely that the PR firm was paid by outside sources to run the smear campaign. While not conclusive, evidence suggests a link to the Barack Obama campaign. Namely:

* Evidence suggests that a YouTube video with false claims about Palin was uploaded and promoted by members of a professional PR firm.

* The family that runs the PR firm has extensive ties to the Democratic Party, the netroots, and are staunch Obama supporters.

* Evidence suggests that the firm engaged in a concerted effort to distribute the video in such a way that it would appear to have gone viral on its own. Yet this effort took place on company time.

* Evidence suggests that these distribution efforts included actions by at least one employee of the firm who is unconnected with the family running the company.

* The voice-over artist used in this supposedly amateur video is a professional.

* This same voice-over artist has worked extensively with David Axelrod's firm, which has a history of engaging in phony grassroots efforts, otherwise known as "astroturfing."

* David Axelrod is Barack Obama's chief media strategist.

* The same voice-over artist has worked directly for the Barack Obama campaign.

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WHO PRODUCED THE VIDEO? [UPDATE: Within 1 hour of posting, "eswinner" has removed all videos from YouTube and begun to try to remove any traces of his activities. But we have the video and all relevant websites backed up. Will update as soon as possible]

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CR

they caught the hacker, and he is the son of a dem rep.

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Originally Posted by Furunculu5

they caught the hacker, and he is the son of a dem rep.

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http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metr...mail_hack.html

What a way to destroy your father's career...

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Originally Posted by CountArach

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metr...mail_hack.html

What a way to destroy your father's career...

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That is very sad. I feel sorry for the father - not knowing if he is a scumbag or not.

Kids should have more respect for their parents careers.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Essentially it went like this:

McCain: I propose 10 town hall debates
Obama: I counteroffer with 2 town hall debates in addition to the 3 regular debates, let's negotiate
McCain: ...


a couple months later--


McCain (when asked about negative ads): It's a shame it's come to this, and I wish senator obama hadn't refused to meet me in town hall debates...

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec...e_between.html mentions it

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Very weak.

So McCain suggested 10 join town hall events and Obama countered with 2 (thereby declining the sizable commitment offered) and they never finished the discussion...

If he had counter offered with 5 or so it would be more reasonable. 2 is not a counter offer - 2 says that the request was unreasonable and not worthy of a legitimate response.

I still don't see how you can say that "McCain ditched the idea of town halls". That seems to not be supported, at least by the link posted. Logical leap.

The superfluous crap of the day you guys will have to listen to:

McCain owns 13 cars

13 is way too many, but seriously - hit him on the issues...

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Originally Posted by CountArach

The superfluous crap of the day you guys will have to listen to:

McCain owns 13 cars

13 is way too many, but seriously - hit him on the issues...

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Lets get those rich people! God only knows that I want a middle class guy who makes 70k a year leading the free world!

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Anyways, figured I'd update y'alls about some goings-on:
Obama is a filthy, filthy liar. He's outright lying about what McCain will do:

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:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
You link to a site that says that McCain is a liar too .

Of course it does. Good grief, you think that's some sort of surprise?

Is the fact that politicians lie so new and amazing to you that you are overcome by smugness and rush to inform people of that fact as though they've never heard it before?

CR

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More Columns >>>

* > Charles Krauthammer: Bush could be the next Harry Truman (9)
* > John Stossel: Barack Obama and white privilege
* > Deroy Murdock: America is turning into a democratic-socialist state (1)
* > Thomas Sowell: Obama is little more than the idol of crowds (4)
* > Jonah Goldberg: Obama mocks McCain's war injuries (17)
* > Byron York: Yes, Obama did support sex-ed for kindergartners (12)

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:laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

:laugh4:

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Those guys support McCain. I expect to hear his talking points from them. What is your point?

George F. Will, a man who was once considered a "conservative", weighs in:

"I suppose the McCain campaign's hope is that when there's a big crisis, people will go for age and experience," said Will. "The question is, who in this crisis looked more presidential, calm and un-flustered? It wasn't John McCain who, as usual, substituting vehemence for coherence, said 'let's fire somebody.' And picked one of the most experienced and conservative people in the administration, Chris Cox, and for no apparent reason ... It was un-presidential behavior by a presidential candidate." [...]

"John McCain showed his personality this week," said the writer and pundit, "and made some of us fearful."

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Is the fact that politicians lie so new and amazing to you that you are overcome by smugness and rush to inform people of that fact as though they've never heard it before?

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:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
What , you mean by writing something like ....

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Anyways, figured I'd update y'alls about some goings-on:
Obama is a filthy, filthy liar. He's outright lying about what McCain will do:

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:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

Nope, not like that. I was not amazed or surprised by Obama; its not the fact that he's lying but the magnitude of his lies that are noteworthy.

You acted like having factcheck say McCain has lied was some great 'gotcha' moment.

CR

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Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff

That is very sad. I feel sorry for the father - not knowing if he is a scumbag or not.

Kids should have more respect for their parents careers.

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Well, apparently the father is a real "Boy Scout" and follows all the rules and stuff. Shame that his son was so stupid (he apparently only realized how major and illegal his actions were AFTER getting into Palin's account) that he actually posted an email address associated to himself online

The thing about Obama is that he has built his campaign based on the frustrations people have with "old style" of politics, so every lie he tells makes him that much more disengenuous than your "normal" politician.... It definitely takes a certain amoral pathology to call out the Washington establishment for attack politics while using the same dirty tactics.. maybe his next novel should be entitled The Audacity of a Scumbag?