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Oh thank you. Are we still on for jiggy jiggy tonight?Quote:
Originally Posted by jirisys
On topic, yes Rome can be more complicated in some ways than RTS AI and chess AI, but to put it in one sense, there is a good complication and a bad complication. Rome's complication needs more complication.
Chess and RTS are easy because they need not a analytic, adapting, sapient and modifiable mind. Chess is static, all pieces move the same all the time (except for exception) and the goal is pretty clear; that is a calculative system. RTS is practically the same. Works on stats and a sort of rock-paper-sissors system, not to complicated.Quote:
Originally Posted by vartan
Now RTT are much more complicated. You have differing values of formation, wit, movement, deployment, flanking, trickery, traps, battlefield, etc. Not a single AI has yet adapted to these parameters and variables, and I'm saddened CA is not trying to make it happen, as much as programming yet another same-gameplay/better-graphics game.
~Jirisys ()
There's one thing the game developers recognised already many years ago, good AI doesn't sell games.Quote:
Originally Posted by jirisys
so has anyone played Shogun II? how is it? i like Shogun for its simplicity but i can always... just play Shogun if i want Total War in its original purity. no need to have a rig just to play Shogun I with pretty colors and animations over it.
I hope its a game about the English Civil War or something like that :)
Yeah, that'd be interesting, though perhaps better as an expansion/part of a Kingdoms-style game with multiple campaigns.Quote:
Originally Posted by MickTrilogy
Oh, and welcome to the the Org, hope you'll enjoy your visit. ~:wave:
I'm thinking more along the lines of the Warring States of China. It would be really interesting if they did it, but since they did Shogun 2, It may not be the best idea. CA is probably more or less going to do Rome 2, mainly because of the larger pushes for that sequel, even from years back.
I'm obviously biased here, but I'd like to see a full game with the American wars of independence, from the US (1770 for a start date maybe) to 1900 (end of Spanish rule). Empire Total War only scratched the surfice of this potential (and there's a lot of potential). All the factions that could be included:
-British Empire
-U.S.A.
-French Empire
-Spanish Empire
-Portuguese Empire
-Dutch
-The different Native Tribes, from Eskimo/Inuit down to the Ona. Not all of them could be playable because of faction slots limits, but many could be represented by rebels with unique geographical units, much like EB. Many could raid the frontier zones, spawn stacks or become "hordes" if their lands are conquered. Some could be allied to the revolutionaries, some to the European Empires, others be client kingdoms, and many independent.
-The African American slaves, who could ally with factions who choose to end slavery, thus giving them a bigger army, better reputation and stronger economy in the long term. If a factions chooses to keep the slave work system, it could have a short term economic bonus but face high unrest, poor reputation and rebellions.
-The different rebellious creole factions (United Provincies of the Rio de La Plata, Gran Colombia, Chile, Peru, Brazilian Kingdom, Mexico and so on). After rebelling, they could choose whether to become a monarchy or a republic.
The tactical and strategical scenarios would be very different from any other previous Total War Game, and also very different in the game itself. Going from artic tundra in northern Canadá, through the Great Lakes, great plains, key river crossings, huge dry deserts, mountains, different swamps, forests, dense jungles, crossing the highest mountain range in the continent, river and open sea battles, fortified island hopping in the Caribbean, various hills and plateaus, etc.
There would be a lot of different and new units, from the continental and imperial armies of the period, militias, many different classes of native warriors fighting with gunpowder to stone age weapons, mounted warbands, etc. There would also be many famous generals and leaders to be represented. There could also be rebellions inside the rebellions, leading to new factions spawning.
This was an era of innovations, so railroads, evolution of firearms and warships, advances in many fields could be applied as reforms and buildings.
Also a completely new set of unique buildings and many new man-made and natural wonders to be re-discovered or built at a very high cost. They could have a key role in building the new national identities or subjugating them and giving a huge law and order bonuses.
Anyway, I just drifted too much, just my dream to once have a Total War game like this.
There is a new iOS app for total war, anybody buys this game app?
http://www.dotmmo.com/total-war-batt...ogun-7626.html
I think Rome 2 will be next, we have had Shogun 2, medieval 2, so I'd assume Rome 2 would be on the cards.
if the make rome 2 I better see that CA learn a thing or 2 from EB (and EB2).....or even RS, at the very least.
Although, knowing CA, we'll be (very very) lucky to get RTR level of detail and accuracy.
Necromancy!
I think there would be WW I Total War next, not Rome 2. Look at Shogun Fall of Samurai, CA have lots of new ideas and mechanics, that suit WW I excellent. Machine guns, iron ships, rail roads. Also lots of the units already done for Japan, USA, Britain, France.
I agree about the new mechanics; making Rome 2 next would be a waste of lots of fine new features. But - with all due respect to the makers of TGW - I still don't see a convincing TW game set in WW1 coming. Instead I'd go for a victorian era version of ETW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn MacCumhail
I think that finally we will get WW2 total war game... the series evolved very much from original Shogun and farther changes are on the way, and with progressive technology a move from turn based game to real time but with a whole epic scale is inevitable... and CA is imho closer to this than Paradox.
According to the article about Shogun:The Fall of the Samurai in the PC-Magazin GameStar Rome 2 is the most likely next part of the series and I believe they're right.
Rome 2 would be epic, but what I really want to see would be an Egyptian era game, starting in ~1600 BC roughly. There would be a divided egypt (it's 50 years before the end of the 2nd Intermediate Period), and some of the most famous empires of the time are starting up: Minoans, Hittites, Hyksos, Sea Peoples, Mittanni, Babylonians, and some smaller ones I can't remember the name of.
The biggest problem I see with a WWI or WW2 totalwar game is the lack of formations used in those era's, and I think the TW mechanics are based on Formation warfare, or have been since day 1.
I suppose It could be done, but I think with the bloodbaths of WWI we would need to see a major increase in the number of units otherwise battles will be over in minutes.
But really, I want Rome 2, nothing else in the series has had me as addicted as Rome TW, as I am still playing it.
I agree with the ForzaFiori . I really want to see a pre-hellenistic game involving those civilisations in the east and the archaic greeks aswell. Think of the siege of troy, the battle of Kadesh, The legendary campaigns of Sargon, The sycthian invasions, the invasion of the sea peoples, the dorian invasion, Wars of King David, the exodus of the Israelites and THE ASSYRIANS!!! or the persians. The nubian invasion of egypt
Yeah, but the teeming masses don't know anything about those time periods. CA knows that popular appeal sells games.
Well, after all these years, we saw almost anything now. Shogun, Rome, MTW, NTW…
It turned into second parts with MTW2 and S2.
I personal cant imagine a WW2 or WW1 TW game, I was pretty much disappointed from NTW already. The playstyle and the tactical momentum was pretty much limited and very static.
The most and deepest tactical momentum and gameplay can be achieved with a "phantasy TW", with mages, trolls, wizzards….
It would be a first timer with different range attacks, strong melee, cav… anything you need for a game with lots of potential.
Apart from this, the major problems has to be solved, no matter what game it is.
Many things work nice within the SP, but create lots of trouble in MP.
CA tried to give MP a huge impact and if you follow the user playing it, they have failed badly. I doubt they are happy with those numbers.
A learning-curve for units, which are only based on much time, is pointless. To turn this game into a "mmo" didnt work and this was obvious.
Online Gaming has same simple basic rules and I have lots of trouble to understand, why CA continue to fail to adjust that.
1. Quick games
2. easy to enter as newcomer
3. a good learning curve
4. no advance for Oldtimer
4.1. the same chance for everyone
That I can bring units to lvl 9 or whatever and than have skills which make a massive impact, is the most stupid thing they ever could bring.
Its fun for the guy who got it, but its a huge disappointment for everyone who is new or didnt got that.
There were "old style games", ladder games, free games…. There was a clanwar… wow, we always did want that, but the basic idea was a disaster, you could have a winratio of 95%, but you never could beat a clan with 500 member,
who just won 20% but ofc got a lot more wins… Whats the point? Where is the challange? All the good clans didnt take part….
The ladder was also a joke! The old ladder in TW in 2000 was great, not perfect, but extremely good. You didnt hat to play just masses on games, the score was determined on your opponents and the winratio.
In S2 all you did need was new player, who give you a quick win. Other "good ranked player/teams" did dodge us fulltime, since they feared to lose…
I could continue, but actual I ask myself: What the hell those guys who create these parts of the game are thinking? This are simple things, you can easy see before the game is published!
Now my bet, the next game will be some "*****2" game, something we had already and now get a fresh look.
CA better accept the fact, that they are not able to bring a good MP part of the game anymore and just stop they effort and save the recourses.
technically they could if they found a way to limit your army sizes to 2-3 regiments and then forçed people to cooperate together to win
the most fun part of any online game is comunicating and doing stuff as part of something
all the great games have that particular aspect (given that it´s normally with just caracthers)
but they could take the development part of for instance dark omen (trust me towards the end of the 90´s that was the best game out there) give players a chance to do a few single players campaigns to develop both their small armies and learn to use them properly and then they would have to pick a faction (given that carthage and rome where both senatorial factions you would get a senate vote to decide wich general would lead the batles against other factions)
then you would have a team of "romans" with armys of 20-30 regiments all trying to work together to achieve victory
you could always take the eleutheroi path and become a mistoporoi general and actually get payed by this or that faction to go to war and give an hand here and there (ofc you could also get destroyed once you lost your usefullness so you would end up creating leagues with other misthoropoi)
problem wich such a schem is that most people would pick rome giving rome and uneven amount of manpower (did i mention you would have gold and experience from the batles and you would have to save up some gold to retrain and better reequip your troops )
then it would just be a matter or combining warzones with proper wartimes when the time for a great batle beteween the seulekids and ptolemaioi came all of the generals would pick their leaders and their leaders would pick their best 10 generals to go with him to batle while the rest went back to single player campaigns to try and get more gold and experience then what they loose in men
just me brainstorming a bit but i think a lightning might have broken a few circuits
Something makes me think, that we won't be seeing WW1 or WW2 Total War games - EVER! The TW games have always had their focus on formation battles with all of the army standing on a field shooting or chopping each other, marching by the signals of drummers and flagbearers in good parade field-order in battlefields the size of a few square kilometers at best. Since that kind of warfare stopped by the end of the 19th century, I have no way of imaging CA making a TW-game taking place after those times. Especially since there already are games like Combat Mission, Company of Heroes and quite a few others portraying those times. I would bet my money on them making a Rome 2 next.
Though a pre-hellenistic Total War would be nice. After all, smashing the nose of the Sphinx would be the dream of every Assyrian.:evil:
Every following CA game moves from the Ancient times to Nowadays. Rome, Middle ages, 18th century Empire, Shogun (yes, one goose step back but then three steps ahead, welcome 19th century!). It seems that the next game would be late 19th century Europe with Americas, India, Africa, Pacific Region. And then there would be WW1 official addon.
There are very interesting ideas already introduced in S2FoS, which wouldn't be abandoned because they are very good and they eat lots of time and human resources to be made just for one addon. Trench war, hiding in buildings - possible since Empire. Railways, iron ships, machine guns - sins S2FoS. Come on, pilla throwing and ballista shooting seems childish from the technical (in-game realization) point of view. What might replace this interesting features in Rome 2?
Plus RTW is not outdated yet. Why would they make Rome 2?
BLXZ: One word - Egyptomania. Nothing in the world has captured more peoples attentions. Slap "ancient Egypt" on the box, maybe with a picture of King Tut's deathmask, and it'd sell like hotcakes.
I'd buy it =)Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaFiori
me 2
it will be great to have a game in a period where chariots dominate and armies relied on skills and numbers rather than strict formations
It will be BYOTW(Build your own total war) where its just a vanilla engine with nothing on it that comes with a ton of modding tools and thus tons of possabilties #wishfulthinking
Only following the trend of CA lately it will be as you said but also totally unmoddable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Doad
I smiled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Doad
I laughed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blxz
I was thinking it'd be called DIY: Total War.
I chuckled. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by vartan