I want that wars of the roses mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif . Or else.
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I want that wars of the roses mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif . Or else.
Soapy, there is an excellent utility for editing the prod 11 and 13 and projectile stats files, it is called Gnome_Unitbuildproj_EditorV2.0 and it lays the file out in a very easy to edit format, you can get it from the Org download page. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
It must be saved asQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
text tab deliminated.
When you choose text tad deliminated
save the file with a different name.
Don't save the changes to the excel doc
just say "no". http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif
About the new horses:
Lord Krazy
The new horse BIFs are absolutely fantastic I see three different colours: bay, black and white/grey.
Indeed all the light cavalry and the dragoons were mounted on bays. The Scots Greys rode exclusively on
greys. All of the Household regiments rode black brutes.
As for the French, the elite Horse Grenadiers were mounted exclusively on black chargers. Carabiniers a Cheval,
a very senior heavy cavalry regiment also rode exclusive black animals. The cuirassiers rode dark brown or at
times black chargers. The lights and the dragoons rode whatever they could find
I suggest that for our game, that all heavy cavalry (both Guard and line) be mounted on black chargers.
It would be a visual warning to the players that heavy horse is approaching. Not a smart idea to send in the
1st Pommeranian Landwehr regiment into the fray if the Carabiners a Cheval are trotting up, if you know what I mean
The lights and the dragoons could be mounted on brown chargers.
Only the Scots Greys would have the honour of being mounted on white chargers.
-Regards,
Cuirassier
Troop statistics tuning and the test results:
**********************************************
I have been fiddling around with the troop statistics for a while now. My general aim is to bring a game feel
that is more Napoleonic than Medieval.
I strongly feel that the range for the musket that is set to 120 meters now is far too long. Effective musket range
in the Napoleonic era was seldom greater than 100 meters. Indeed even this figure applied to the first volley where factors
like battle stress, smoke from previous volleys, fouled musket barrels etc did not count. As the battle raged on, all of the above
factors came into the play and severely reduced the range and more importantly, the EFFECTIVENESS of the musketry.
Especially against cavalry, it was a very brave (or a foolish) commander who ordered a volley at 100 meters. In order to break the
momentum of the cavalry charge it was essential to cause significant casualties with the first volley. This could only be done
if the volley was fired at a very close range, say 40 meters or even 30 meters. Even at seventy meters, the only one in 3 shots hit their
targets ever
With these factors in mind, I changed the musket range to 70 meters and the rifle range to 120 meters. I gave a hit probablity of
0.3 for the musket and 0.5 for the rifle.
I was also trying to get the following to work:
1* Find a way to get the square formation. If this is not possible, find a close second.
2* Find a way to make the AI adopt the square formation if being threatened by cavalry
I set the NUM_PREFERRED_ROWS to 8. This easily puts the battalions (60 man units) into a nice attack column formation.
When close to the enemy you could deploy the battalion into a three or two rank formation for efficient musketry duells.
I set the NUM_SUPPORTING_RANKS to 4 and the CAV_DEF_BONUS for the infantry to +1. With these changes, the combat feels more
Napoleonic. When being attacked by cavalry, my infantry is safe as long as they remain in close formation. Of course, you have
to issue the HOLD POSITION and HOLD FORMATION commands prior to a cavalry charge: otherwise they will run away.
If they meet the cavalry charge standing in line, they get slaughtered almost always. It is indeed morbidly fascinating to
watch the line bend under the charge and finally break into two or three sections as the cavalry charges home. Once this happens
the infantry is doomed.
But I have not had much success with the AI behaviour so far. No matter what parameters I tweak, the AI makes the
infantry receive the charge in line. I just have to find a flank and voila , there is blood everywhere The infantry has no chance
Any input on this would be welcome.
Regards,
Cuirassier
You accuracy and range stats are very good.
I also found it neccessary to lower the honour of all troops, especially cavalry. Most infantry should have honour 0 or 1, cavalry 2 or 3.
In this case, low honour cavalry will have a great deal of trouble frontally chargeing formed infantry, but no trouble hitting them in the flanks or rear.
Also take away cavalry's armor for the most part... they are really not justified in having such high armor values. They should have significant melee advantages over infatry, and a moderate chare bonus (2-4).
Dragoons and Carabiniers should have lower armor, honour, and melee ability, as they were traditionally mounted infantry. They should, however be equipped with carbines.
Cuirassiers should have better armor obviously, and I think they were armed with lances.
The square formation stuff seems like a long shot really. Keep in mind you can always "form square" with four infantry regiments manually. Getting the AI to do it... well thats another trick entirely
I am yet to modify the armour stats. But I agree with you entirely on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Dragoons, hussars and light dragoons should not havce any armour at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
By the way, the French Carabiniers a Cheval was one of the most senior heavy regiments. Even though they were accustomed to dish out a volley of carbine fire before they engaged, their prowess with the cold steel was never in doubt. They were, in additon, armoured (full cuirass) and mounted on splendid black chargers.
The cuirassiers' primary weapon was the Kliegenthal straight sword, 36 inches long. They never carried the lance.
Welcome to the group and the discussion. You have made some good contributions already.
Best,
Cuirassier
Thanks
You clearly have the edge when it comes to Napoleonic cavalry minutiae
I really am just an unlearned amateur throwing in my two bits http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif My forte is more tactics of the period.
My feeling is on the subject of charges and melee in general: the best outcome would be if it were quite difficult to make a frontal appraoch (at walk or charge, infantry or cavalry) without breaking, and that once melee commences it should be decided very quickly... making unit morale "fragile" by giving everyone low honour would certainly help but then there will be problems with regard to artillery and other weapons that cause fear.
In fact Napoleonic troops were frequently willing to take terrible punishment from artillery and musket fire without breaking, and yet frequently showed much more tredipation when threatened with cold steel... something that I think will be difficult to simulate in the game, esp. with regards to cavalry.
I'll keep toying with it and see what I find.
I have a few ideas:
I want the Lancers to have a powerful charge but limited melee. Should withdraw immediately after charging.
Cuirassiers should be the only unit with any armour, since they wore a breastplate thing but not a big armour factor like in the MTW period.
The range of different infatry types should promote different tactics with different types. For example, the famous thin lines of the English should be possible only with good morale units.
The whole problem about forming square seems odd to me. If I want to put my battalion into square, I can just arrange the companies into that formation myself. Each unit on hold form. No need for complicated programming.
And forming and dissolving square should take time, is difficult not easy to command this. So letting the player do it is good.
Now, for the AI, there are some pre-planned formations for them. You could make one for the square formation, and see ... but I do not know the details of this programming section. Saw it around here somewhere.
I agreee Krast, This seems the most Logical and simple solution. The hard part is getting the AI to follow along and in light of some new formation data it may be possible to add Square to the existing formation file the AI uses, this has yet to be tested I have downloaded the formation data file from LongJohn at CA but alot of it is greek to me, might take a little time to sort out. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
I we assume that we are using one 60 man unit to represent a company (of say 120 musketeers) then your idea of using AI group formations to form a square would work out.
But in huge battles, it would be almost impractical to let a sixty man unit represent an infantry company. Again in huge battles like Waterloo (I shudder to think about biggies like Wagram)there is no way that we could represent three different armies if we use units at company level.
See my earlier posts. My humble opinion is that we have to let a sixty man infantry unit represent a battalion. A 40 man cavalry unit should reresent a cavalry regiment of 450 sabres.
I have played BreakAway Games' Waterloo: Napoleon's Last Battle to death and believe me Even with the above abstractions it is a monumental task to manage your battalions and regiments in large engagements if the AI is even halfway decent.
Good ideas though. Keep them coming.
Best
Cuirassier
I don't think MTW will ever be ideal for representing anything larger than skirmish level battles (a few 1000 on each side max), or perhaps sections of larger battles... it's a question of scale.
If you were to have each unit represent a regiment, and thus be able to have multi-brigade or division sized conflicts, then you have to adjust the scale of everything... movement rates, firing range, even building and tree size, and so on.
Do-able, but not ideal.
Still regiment would represent the absolutely maximum size you could reasonably have a unit of men represent (1 man represents 10-20 men). It would be an interesting excercise for sure, but perhaps a little more abstract in concept.
I think you're on the wrong course if you start thinking about scaling the representation in the game to a lrager number of men.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
The game works because it has a 1:1 relationship.
If you mess with this, you're opening a whole new can of worms.
Not that there's anything inherently wrong with worms; on the contrary they carry plenty of nutrition.
*licks lips*
Well I happen to agree, the game was made with 1:1 in mind, which is why trying to scale it would be problematic, conceptually speaking.
Lord Krazy: No luck still with Excel, despite everything it always manages to screw up the file somehow.
Lord of Storms: The Gnome editor is really handy, thanks
Soapyfrog,Krasturak,
I understand you inherent dislike for the scale concept.
On the other hand if we don't try we will never know.
Lord Cuirassier
Is the person that is trying and I am confident
that if anyone can do this, he can.
Ok it may turn out in the end that the 1:1 ratio
is best and we scale the sprites down and add more.
This will give you more men and a 1:1 ratio
but only graphicly.
But in the end if we had to go with the present
setup, we would have to call it
something like
"Napoleon's Greatest Skirmishes" or
"Great Skirmishes of the 18 century"
I'm not sure about that. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
My position on this is try it before you knock it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
I have not tried it yet so I shall reserve my
opinion till then.I want it to work
and hope it will.
I have been told for example that cannons in bif's
will never work nor catch on.
Yet I know of a hundred or so people
that use ours and are happier it exist's
rather than not.
That's 99 or so more than I accounted for.
I know it's not perfect but it was never suposed to be.
Just like the rest of the things we do. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
Anyway thanks for your interset and comments.
It is an important issue for us and we do
consider your point view.
Keep them comming.
Thanks.
Regards,
LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif
Hi guy's
I'm going away for a week.
Good news for me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
Bad news for you. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/frown.gif
I will not have time to update the site
with the latest downloads.
This is due to the bandwidth problem
as I have non untill tomorrow and I won't
be here. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/rolleyes.gif
V1.7 will made available on my return.
The other Lords will be still
holding the fort so I want you to hassel them
alot while I'm away. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
Thanks regards
LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
btw no point in complaining
I'm not here. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
Hi everybody,
Below is a new web site dedicated to the Napoleonic Mod that the lords have been working on. This wite is in constant construction and will be updated quite a few time so bookmark it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif and go to see it often.
Lord Le Bob
http://napoleontotalwar.tripod.com/
A plus
If this is a sucsess we should go commercial.
Hi there chaps,
Been kicking the Peninsular War idea around a bit and I think it might work. Not perfectly of course and for two main reasons - geography (Europe isn't exactly shaped like Spain, but this is surmountable) and (more crucial) VERY poor diplomacy rules in MTW. It should be possible to have more diplomatic options and to keep allies supplied (and happy/loyal) with gold and not have them run out on you randomly whenever they feel like it. Even LEGION has better diplomacy rules.
Why I'm harping on this is because it would be nice to have 2-3 'French' factions, 2-3 'British' factions and the rest as Portugal and the different regional Juntas (Galicia, Andalucia, Estremadura, etc). I'm thinking basic rule of thumb would be, Britain's got faster firing (and longer ranged for rifled units) infantry and better cavalry (when they can get it!http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif while French troops are generally much more maneuverable (though none should be able to match the elite Light Division troops). German and Portuguese (when well trained) units should be a step lower and particularly good for second line holders and fortress troops. Spanish should have the cheapest troops (just over-running the country with men; hey it's THEIR country!http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif but of a poorer quality (though good enough when trained and well led by someone the caliber of El Empecinado or Castanos). So that's the way it balances off. Britain should have the green but needs to invest in a fleet to protect her from invasion and keep supply lines to the Peninsula, Malta and Egypt (and thence to India) open, leaving little for land forces. France has got average resources but has conquered quite a lot and can hold its own pretty much. Spain should be caught up in severe internal squabbles with deal making and breaking going on all the time.
One reason again I gave up on my half done War of the Roses mod (if anyone wants to upload it so people can check it out, contact me!http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif is the lack of diplomacy rules. When that improves I'll go back and have a lookasee.
Best regards,
Lord de Clare
Hi all,
Nice mod you guys have in development here I downloaded it about a week ago and have been building maps and playing around with the unit stats since after my first custom game. So far I have two maps made, a Quatre Bras map and an Auerstadt map. With that in mind I'm taking suggestions on a 3rd map. So far I am leaning towards doing the plateau at wargram as I have a topo map of that but if someone has a better suggestion, please post it.
I made use of some of the suggestions Soapyfrog and Cuirasser have made when adjusting the unit and weapon stats. I changed the unit stats for infantry to generally match those of janissary infantry. When I tested it the AI Infantry seemed alot more agressive. I even saw it drive off some of my french line infantry at bayonet point. The main point for me was they didn't try to skirmish away when I countercharged them. Anyway looking forward to the next release and keep up the good work
Cheers for making such a nice mod.I have been testing since
v.1 and i must say your work is appriciated.
Regards
Greg
Thnaks for all the Kind words Guys, The Lords are still working on this Mod and your feedback is invaluable. What you have been play testing is just the Unit Beta the mod campaign as a whole has not yet been finished we are waiting on the Viking expansion pack which promises to open up alot of new areas for modding. So that means more for you the players. V 1.7 Unit Beta is ready we are just sorting out a bandwith problem and I will post the link as soon as possible. Until then keep the feedback coming and thanks to you all. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
I have a suggestion for a unit type. I'd like to see a command staff unit. A mounted version with 20 men and an unmounted version with ten. Both would have a high morale and honor value. Anything that increases their survivability actually. After playing this for a bit I didn't find any unit that I could use as a commander comfortably given the time period. Using a cavalry unit or an infantry unit doesn't make sense to me as I want those to maneuver with. The artillery battery is marginally better since I tend to keep it out of musket range but having some type of tough small unit as a commander would be better. You could even give the dismounted version muskets to illustrate the willingness of some senior commanders to grab a gun and blast away themselves. Or maybe just the french versions of the dismounted.
I have this picture in my mind of my dismounted general on a waypoint path walking up and down behind my firing line, raising the morale of each unit he passes and thereby its fire effectiveness for a few seconds before moving on. Or my cavalry general leading the desperate charge ala Murat, increasing the odds the charge will succeed by just that extra little bit. Or getting himself killed, thereby dooming it to failure. You could also use a general like this with artillery by putting the guns on the crest of the hill with him just behind the crest, raising their morale but minimizing his own exposure to return fire.
The command staff unit would basically be the same for both sides you'd only have to make one of each type and they'd be available to all factions. Unless of course you wanted to give each one some type of nationality trait like in the example above with the french.
I think it would add some flavour to the mod and used in variations of the above, be a useful unit to have in the mix.
The newest release of the Napoleonic Units Beta V1.7 is now available at the Lords Mirror site heres the link, Konst's Mirror site for the Lords P.S. Be sure to view the readme before starting.
I found out that your general doesn't work in multiplayer the way I thought he did. Which makes my reasoning behind wanting a special unit for him kind of useless morale wise. I' d still use a unit like this all the time, even without the morale effects. Oh well..back to the idea box with that one
I like the idea of the General and his aides unit. It would just be like a unit of royal knights in effect. Say 20 men?
It would be good if he does give a moral boost to units near bye.
In the SP campaign game your general does give you a morale boost for being near the troops. Unfortunately, and I can see why they did this, the morale effects where the general affects other troops are taken out in multiplayer. Except the morale hit if your general dies or is captured, that still affects them. The +2 morale on the actual unit the general is in is still there in multiplayer too.
I guess what I'm trying to get at here is even though my reasoning for wanting a command staff was basically unsound, I'd still like to be able to use such a unit as my general. Of course I'm just a guy doing some talking not the one doing the actual work......
*Begins to plead with The Lords for a command staff*
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/mecry.gif
Has anyone made any progress with regard to a new campaign map for this "mod"?
Is such a new campaign map essential in such a mod?
Just asking
Heyas,
Just tried some of the units in the 1.7 release. Pretty cool stuff. One thing I noticed that when the Scots were busy gunning down the Young Guard, the Young Guard bodies were appearing as dead horses. I know those guys were big men but holy cow Anybody else getting this? Maybe i just have a bad install...
Yep seems they do leave horse corpses...