Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

Why not Get rid of Aragon, I know they were a semi-major faction in this time period, but Castile merged with Aragon in 1485 or something like that, and replace them with the Northern German Alliance and make the Hapsburgs name, Hapsburg Germany, and make Bavaria rebel, but have really powerful armies, to make it almost like a faction. This way, it would more realistic, because you would have the main focus on France, Germany, and Italy, the main areas of the Renaissance, and it also means that you could add in the Historical Battles, some battles from the 30 Years War. What do you think?

Don't forget Turkey, they had Europe in a constant state of fear through much of the time period. I do not know, Y and Saranalos may know more. I definately think Aragon was a side faction compared to Germany though.

I still wish we could squeeze Ireland in...... But we should never do that at the expense of a kore important faction.

Well, to compensate for Aragon, We could always change the Knights of St. John to Aragonese Naples, and making it subject to the Pope. That way we still in a sense have Aragon, and it means that the Pope won't conquer all of Southern Italy. But I do think we should spilt Germany into two though.

That would work well.
What 2 German factions would we have? One should definitely be the Habsburgs. What about the other?
HOw about the House of Luxemburg? Sigismund of Luxemburg was the emperor in the beginning of the 15 th century?

On the plus side, there are no new units - both German factions can have the same roster.

Look at your inbox. I sent you a suggestion.

hi modder
again , the germans should have several states , 2 , 3 , 4 of the 8 electors
all the german factoin should have the same units , buildings ets
you should only focus on the names , collors , flags ets

looking forward for the mod and your desitions

:book: ~:handball:

Dude, we can only put in so many factions. f you want all the electors, then we have to cut out almost half the factions. In any case the diplomacy options are not nearly complex enough to do justice to such complicated and subtile relations so even if we add that many german factions you'd probably be disappointed in the end.

Weren't there 7 electors, 4 princes and 3 bishops?

Inbox is free now.

Having two german states seems to be the best way to go. Anymore would be taking up too many slots and any less would not give any sense of the geopolitics of the time.
I know a lot about the east during this time period but not much about Aragon or the knightly orders, does anybody know if that would be appropriate?

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Originally Posted by Uesugi Kenshin

Having two german states seems to be the best way to go. Anymore would be taking up too many slots and any less would not give any sense of the geopolitics of the time.
I know a lot about the east during this time period but not much about Aragon or the knightly orders, does anybody know if that would be appropriate?

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Well, my idea was that we could have three. But, if you think two is the best way to go, then you should make Saxony the state for these two reasons:

1. They are in the North, and the Hapsburgs are in the South.
2. They were one of the two major German states of this period.

But this was my idea: Change Aragon to Saxony. Change HRE to Bavaria. Keep Hapsburgs. Change Knights of St. John to Naples(as they only had Rhodes). It is a shame about Aragon, but Castile merged with them in 1485 or close enough. But if we included Naples, they could have half-Spanish half-Italian units, as Naples was Aragonese for most of the Period. I do think we should include Naples at the expense of the Knights of St. John. Because they only held Rhodes, and it would be silly to have them in, because the Turks would rule the sea, and they need to fight to expand. And they didn't last long against the Turks. But having a half-Spanish half-Italian miltary faction would be COOL!

Oh, and and a thing about the Papacy: Instead of missions for the Italians to do, why not make it Crusades against the Turks or Moors. Give them 20 or 25 turns to complete it, and make the rewards substantial for success, and the punishment brutal for failure.

Any Comments?

Would work and I like it.
But we have to make sure that we choose the most powerful houses. I know the Habsburgs were that, but the other two I have no knowledge of. Were they both electors?
We have to choose electors, plus i'm still in favour of the Luxemburg as they were quite powerful at the begining of the period.
But in principle I agree. It would save us the hassle of yoe another minor faction units.
Great idea about the crusades, but is it possible?

Great news the patch is out and it includes a battle map editor and all the wonders are viewable in battlemap view as well see....
http://img234.exs.cx/img234/7131/00305kw.jpg

plus if you need the patch you can download it here http://downloads.grey-wolves.net/rtw..._1.2_Patch.exe it worked fine for me although the one over at the offical site didnt.

So now we should be able to get to work on those historical battles. We could release a demo with 2 or 3 historical battles in it as a taster? ~:) :balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2:

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Originally Posted by Yggdrasill

Would work and I like it.
But we have to make sure that we choose the most powerful houses. I know the Habsburgs were that, but the other two I have no knowledge of. Were they both electors?
We have to choose electors, plus i'm still in favour of the Luxemburg as they were quite powerful at the begining of the period.
But in principle I agree. It would save us the hassle of yoe another minor faction units.
Great idea about the crusades, but is it possible?

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Saxony was an elector, but Bavaria was an independant knigdom, so it seems fair to have both of them in. I don't know about the Crusades, but I hope it could be done.

Does anybody think Knights of St. John and Aragon should be kept in instead of these German states?
Is there any unit variation between the German states?
If there is not are they very different in size and power (aka will one of them walk all over the others)
Do people have any other factions they would like included that we have not yet discussed?
The faction i would love to be able to include is Ireland, but unfortunately there is not enough room from what I know. Too bad there are hardcoded limits.

The reason why the 3 knightly orders makes sense is that they are the best way of dealing with the "senate and 3 roman factions" problem.

I'm not sure how much of this has changed in the patch, but my understanding is that due to the fact that cultures have a maximum number of factions in them, if you dont want factions to recieve senate missions (or papal missions, if you prefer for the purposes of the mod) then they have to be in the non-roman culture group, if you dont want any nation to recieve those missions, you cant have anything in that cultural group (apart from your senate replacement, the papacy). IMHO, bad waste of 3 slots!

If your happy for the Knights of St. John's replacement to be getting missions, then thats fine, or juggling arround with the other groups so that some other faction gets them instead. Its just one of those stupid things you have to consider.

Of course, 1.2 may have changed that all... you never know! Or atleast, I haven't been bothered to take much notice.

Well, I think it would be historically accurate to include Saxony and Bavaria. Why should we include a faction that only has Rhodes! We already decided to change it to the Italian States for the Pope/Senate relationship. Anyway, could you post a poll and see what people think?

Will do. It would be a waste of three factions. Everybody make sure you vote in the poll!

Hey! It says I can't vote! Why can't I?

Also, how come I am only a junior member?

Hello everybody!

I said before that I would be not posting very frequently, but as you can plainly see I am not posting at all. The reason? I have given up modding RTW. In my opinion, MTW is far, far better a game for modding, and so I am going back to that. I wish you all the best of luck in keeping this mod going, and I will send all the files that I had previously worked on to Uesugi (although Uesugi, you might want to start again on the campaign, because no matter what I try I just can't get it to work)

Expect to see me soon with my new in-progress mod, TOTAL VI! And maybe I will even continue work on the CTW mod for Medieval I had previously planned, but after the Total VI mod is finished.

Thanks and good luck once again,
Silver Rusher

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Originally Posted by Silver Rusher

Hello everybody!

I said before that I would be not posting very frequently, but as you can plainly see I am not posting at all. The reason? I have given up modding RTW. In my opinion, MTW is far, far better a game for modding, and so I am going back to that. I wish you all the best of luck in keeping this mod going, and I will send all the files that I had previously worked on to Uesugi (although Uesugi, you might want to start again on the campaign, because no matter what I try I just can't get it to work)

Expect to see me soon with my new in-progress mod, TOTAL VI! And maybe I will even continue work on the CTW mod for Medieval I had previously planned, but after the Total VI mod is finished.

Thanks and good luck once again,
Silver Rusher

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Well I feared this would happen. No screenshots of the campaign map, no Campaign map done! notice, no sign of Silver for ages... Needless to say this changes a lot. Not so much because Silver gave up, but more because he admitted that the campaign map doesn't work. So we're back at the beginning, only this time short of a modeler. Silver could have contributed a lot, especially since he uses Photoshop and can do campaign graphics. With no sign of other graphics guy, this means we're down to one graphics modeler and in serious trouble. Any hope of recruiting additional people to join is now gone, since the originator of the mod and a person who should have been a major contributor just quit on us. So what do we do now?

There are three possibilities. One, which I hope will not happen, is that we call it quits, pack and go home. I really hope this will not happen, I've invested a lot of time into this, and GodsPetMonkey especially, some of the models he made are fantastic. Of course, if he decides he's had it, then it really is over. And I can't blame him if he does, since he's the only one doing some work right now, and the ONLY graphics modeler that we have.

The other option is that we go on as we have sofar. Continue working on the campaign map with somebody else doing the map, and hope for the best. I have to say, that it seems to me that this would only result in a slow but irreversible decline in tempo, interest and enthusiasm for the mod, and that eventually it would also die.

The third option is a new direction in developement. For too long we have made no progress. I think a reassesment of what is and what isn't possible is in order, and that we temporarily suspend all work on the campaign part of the game and focus on developing the units and everything associated with them so that we, if all else fails, manage to finish and implement a new battle time period. In other words, let's just do the battle part of the game, new factions and their units, new weapons, animations and sound, some new walls, new unit info and 2d images, and new faction flags, publish that so that we can play custom game and historical battle scenarios and then perhaps, continue working on the campaign if we feel like it. Perhaps then somebody will join our team.
It this case, we would all have to roll up our sleeves and do some work concerning graphics. Given the limitations (we all have lives outside the mod, as I have been painfully aware for the past month) and few members in our team, this seems to be the only realistic option. Redoing the campaign (with its associated graphics, both 3d and 2d, buldings, info, events, vices and virtues, retinue, wonders, music, sounds... the list goes on...and finally debugging, which is the most difficult part, as Silver has just proved to us all), is a bit too much for us to swallow. In the end, slow progress would frustrate us all, and the whole thing would end in a disaster.

I think its a sad thing that Silver has decided to give up on RTW in general, and CTW in particular, though I can understand your frustration with the engine at times, you were a driving force and capable modder.

But I don't believe in leaving cause things arnt going my way, so don't worry about me Yggdrasill! I'm not going anywhere, but I do agree we need to speed things up a little. The direction we head in now is of little concern to me, either way 3D units are needed, but I think your right that just getting the battle side of things done would produce something concrete and working much sooner.

And, while I agree the desire for more 3D artists is important, they are a very rare commodity (especially seeing most mods dont have ANY!). Its as important to find other who can help make the mod a reality.

I'm not so much giving up, more accepting the fact that the RTW engine just is not nearly as good for modding as the MTW engine, and that going back to modding MTW is probably just better, for it is easier and more effective. The limits of RTW, like the limit on the factions you can have etc. is essentially what completely puts me off this game. In fact, I have started to find I don't really even like RTW that much, it really lost my hooking. MTW was great because it really made you feel as if you were actually in the shoes of a true medieval king, and modding it holds much more promise.

I'm very sorry for having to leave now, and like I said, it isn't about me giving up on this mod in particular (if the RTW engine was better to mod I would stay with you guys right up until the release) but rather on Rome's modding capabilities. Sorry, and I really mean it actually. I'm going to miss working on this mod.

Silver Rusher

I posted a reply with a bit of the info in the RTW heavengames thread, to try to attract more modders. And PLEASE vote everyone!

Sorry to see you leaving CTW for good Silver. Good luck on your MTW mods.
Members are the only ones that can vote.
I have zero artistic talent, so I can work on anything but modelling, I can work on figuring out unit stats/lists whatever, but if anyone on the team has artistic talent, even if they have not modelled before they should give it a try and see if they can make good unit models. If you want to try it out I believe there are free modelling programs on the net, though they are very basic. That might help you get an idea as to whether or not you want to model.
Silver, could you send the data to citadeltotalwar@hotmail.com, my hotmail account is down for now. Everyone else I will start writing my name at the end of everything that I send from that e-mail account, sorry for not doing it to begin with. I am going to be using it instead of my other account until I get that fixed, I only use it for this mod anyway so it will not be a problem.
Long live CTW!

Need anymore faction units' names/equipment? I can easily provide any of these that are needed. Oh, if there are 3 German factions, I think we should give each German faction one unique unit if possible. Or, change the availibility of the units, so one is infantry based, the other pikemen based, and the other cavalry based, or something like that to make it feel like different factions.

Farewell Silver Rusher! Hope you have success with modding Medieval!

I posted a thread in RTW Heavengames, asking all modders to help. Already there is one wanting to help. I posted the sites address, and told him to pm you Uesugi Kenshin.

Thanks, it would be great to get some more help. I don't know about making 5the German factions different, we need to find out if there were historical differences between them.

No no significant differences, maybe only a few units that were specific to certain regions might appear in the armies of neighboring German factions but the core of the army was the same.