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I'm having slight troubles with Armenian cataphracts. No parthian city can build cataphracts early on in the game and whenenver I'm facing Armenian cataphracts, I just use HAs to tire them out, shoot at them as long as possible, and rush EVERYTHING i have at them... any other solutions?
Hello G_Pan, welcome here
now about your problem
cataphracts are so armored that you need to shoot them in the back, or you'll waste too many arrows.
use your HA in tag teams, switch off fire at will and let the cats chase one of your HA, then send another HA after them and shoot them.
if they turn and chase your second unit, have the first one do the shooting.
it requires lots of micro management, but the results are awesome (zero casualties)
now, if you don't have time to play cat and mouse with the cats (pun intended) there is another solution, stick them on place with spearmen and send two or three family members on them.
I beg to differ here. Armour rating protects from attack from all directions: it is the shielded units that are more vulnerable in the back. Since cataphracts don't have shield, it doesn't really matter that much from whence you shoot at them. Otherwise, I agree with your tactics: tiring them out by running rings around them with your horse archers works wonders. Catching them on the business end of a phalanx is also a great idea, especially if you can then take them from the side with a family member or another decent unit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poulp'
Sorry
I wrote down cataphracts but I was thinking roman cavalry at the same time.
but the idea is still valid.
I have one thing to add, tiring they out only works if faigue is switched on.
I remember testing Cataphracts in the old 1.0 version.
Basic 54-member unit frontally charging a unit of 120 Silver Shield Pike in phalanx. No additional commands given, no pull-out and re-charge etc.
Result: 50% casualties among Cataphract unit; 60% among Pike which routed. This ended the test (casualties in a real battle would have reached 90-100% during the rout).
Kept adding valor until the Silver Shields won -- needed 1 silver stripe to defeat (narrowly) the cataphracts. Even at 3 gold chevrons, the pike unit NEVER suffered less than 33% casualties in winning.
Answer: Must swarm cataphracts. Anything approaching even numbers of units or unit quality pretty well guarantees a cataphract win.
HA does okay against them (no shields) but against multiple units of cat's may well run out of ammo before running low on targets. Melee at less than 25-1 odds with the HA and the cat's will beat them.
Be careful in the early game. The at-start cat units have NO opposition. None of the spear units that Pontus or Parthia or Selukia can bring to bear against them will hold them long enough to allow a flank strike. Merc hoplites will hold long enough (barely) to let you hammer them with a general or three. Otherwise, you have to swarm them with bodies on all sides and absorb the horrid losses necessary to take them down -- no elegant solution.
how to play as Parthia?
I started to play, but I dont have a remote idea to do
LOTSA horse archers, and think cheap, only peasents for garisons, takes Pharaaspa ASAP, wait till the Seleucids are at war with the eggies, armanians and pontus (or at least till they have a few enemies) before going after Seleucia. Watch for opportunities to attack when there are few armies present on your front. When you have to fight the eggies, pray, and hope you can afford some cataphracts (sp).
note: I have only ever played them once, VH/H, kinda quit after fighting Egypt for 50 years with NO advancement by either side.
play guruella tactics would help,sending small army(bring only Horse Acher,no infantry,recruit mecernaries if you got the chance to take down that city,and do it quick) entering their heartland to siege their city,egytian cities not at the frontline mostly low garrison...,if you have the chance(you siege and there is no reinforcement come,assault,take that city,exterminate,looting,leave a archer garrison,then attack another city,if there is reinforcement,leave and attack another city,then so on and so on,like mongolian horde):2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuperman
even you don't take that city,you oredi disrupt their army movement...
As Stuperman has suggested, it's all about creating armies centered around HA's (with cataphracts as support as soon as you can get them). Also, the Persian Cavalry (HA unit) will give you some measure of melee value.
Hillman and Eastern Infantry are arguably the most worthless infantry in the entire R:TW world. Still, they are effective in their use as "bait". Encircle and then rain down arrow upon arrow on your enemy forces as they approach your main battle line. If all goes as planned, you'll witness multiple enemy units routing prior to engagement with your infantry.
Be forewarned however, Hillmen or Eastern Infantry will run if the sun goes behind a cloud or an enemy combat unit approaches them and says "boo". :scared: Hire mercenaries when you get to other regions.
Careful management of finances in the early going is key to success when playing Parthia. Acquire provinces with sea ports as soon as possible - AND - avoid conflict with Egypt and to a lesser degree Selucia for as long as you can.
When I played for Parthia I relied only upon cataphracts, coz nearly all other units definetely suck.
But as for money, after some time I just didn't count the finances, I was bribing Romans and their towns not paying any attention to the ammount of price, and not having any money lack.
It's well known that a bribed town won't tolerate your troops for a long time, so, knowing that a bribed Roman town will soon get back to them, I used to demolish all buildings possible to riun, and when Romans had their settlement back it wasn't a megapolis, they had a hole where everything must have been started from the very beginning.
my campaign of Parthia,i do attacked by egypt,but by then i send my diplomat to ask the egyptian for cease fire,they ask me become protectorate,i accept(get 10000 denarii into my coffer).After that,my cities near egytian front become safe,that make me have the spare money to take out Pontus(all balkans) and the Greece(Thracian own it),now i got 50k net income per turn.With these income i start build up my cities and begun to produce cataphract....:2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_kiss
Yes, I also was a protectorate of Egypt. This is that after I had a few fights with Egyptian troops my troopes proved themselves totally incapable. That time I uswed to have eastern infantry, hillmen, horse archers etc. So I had to have peace with Egypt, needed some time to develope my cities, build a strong army etc. And I had to abandon a couple of provinces in the far east and give them in to Egypt.
But many years after Egypt weakened greatly and I finished it like a wounded beast it was.
http://pics.livejournal.com/paul_kiss/pic/00019hkz
Sometimes it's usefult to make 5 steps back in order to make 20 steps forward in future.
And except cataphracts I used archers, coz something with arrows was certainly needed. But Parthian archers are weak as most of their troops.
Yeah, with Parthia it's all about horse archers. And as far as the Egyptians are concerned, hit them head on. Us an army of all horse archers and just ride cricles around them and rain death on them. When you run out of arrows retreat and then head back again and kill more. The key is mobility and don't be afraid to run in and hit archers with your missle cavalry, especially Persian Cavalry who are actually fairly decent in melee and have long ranged missles. The only really bad part about Parthia are sieges where all your speed and mobility are useless. In these cases hire strong infantry mercs or just use waves of eastern infantry and sap some holes for Kataphracts. The worst part about Parthia is only being able to build dirt roads and no public health buildings so getting bigger cities and dealing with squaler are big problems until you get the big Seleucid and Egyptian cities.
Re: defeating cataphracts; while I endorse the horse archer advice for Parthia, I actually had a surprisingly easy time with Armenian and Parthian cataphracts as Seleucia, in part because I tended to fight defensive battles. 1 on 1 I'm sure no single phalangite is going to have very good odds, but I massacred them with militia hoplites simply because you get so much phalanx for your money; and because I dragged them around with jav cav before leading them up a hill to my infantry, at which point their performance weren't so impressive. (Still good, but surely not cost effective, especially against militia hoplites and eastern mercenaries)
There's perhaps a question of what is and isn't cheesy vs. the AI - using terrain, using corners, using cavalry to disorient them - but ultimately an amount of gaminess is part of the game, since to maximize the ai's intelligence would require you to play with somewhat boring and routine tactics.
parthia was very Mighty but this game is not.
They can be devastatingly good in RTW, though they have a tough start.
You are not the first to note the a-historical character of this game. If you want a different perspective, read up on the Europa Barbarorum threads -- those chaps revel in correct history.
I've always enjoyed playing Parthia because its the closest you will get to playing the Persians on vanilla RTW.One thing that always bugged me was the lack of infantry Parthia has,sure there calvary is brillaint, the combination of horse archers and cataphracts and Elephants is unmatched, This never really bothered me until one day on the mods forums I saw the Extended Greek Mod which I downloaded. It was pretty much the same as vanilla apart from the Greeks had a more diverse selection of Units,Rome was jst one factions no longer 3 families and the senate, the map went more eastwards into India and the Parthians had the Heavy Spearman that Armenia has and the famous Persian Immortals which teamed with the original cavalry selection was unstoppable.I soon missed the original RTW and scrapped the mod and went back to vanilla but someone said on this forum that they added cataphract archers and the heavy spearmen to Parthia and if there is any kind of mod to add the immortals and the spearmen tell me please.:help:
Cheers.:beam:
Hello Hanno, welcome to the Org ~:wave:. This forum is for discussion of Parthian strategy, so your question would be more likely to be answered in the Entrance Hall or the R:TW Mod Discussion.
Thanks I'll have a look there :beam:
I tried Parthia (vanilla RTW) a few times, but, despite my fondness of (missile) cavalry, it never stuck... I found it tedious at times because you can't autoresolve against a 1-3 peasant rebel army if you are fond of your horse archers... the AI can't use them at all...
I tripled Game speed most of the time I fought those measly rebel armies, as you can easily beat them with a few horse archer cohorts on Cantabrian Circle, I can't understand why the AI uses most special abilities (flaming munition, phalanx, war cry) but NEVER EVER the cantabrian circle. It's one of the best special abilities in eastern factions. If the AI would use the Circle, I'd be autoresolving a lot more against those tedious rebel peasants.
I got frustrated by the lack of money and the resulting slow development... you always get in the red with parthia whatever you try, and only your trade rights and map info offer some solace. And off course, that money needs to go to more diplomats or you'll be in the red every other turn no matter what.
It a hard start with parthia, even on medium difficulty, and I haven't been able to keep playing this faction for more than ten game years before I decided to do some other faction...
Build all-cav armies and take Babylonia right away. Don't piss off the Egyptians, crush the Selucids and the Armenians.
That said, if you want a good TW experience with the House of Arsces, play the mods Europa Barborum or Rome Total Realism. The map in vanilla RTW does not serve Parthia well.
Oddly this is not an issue for the Sassinsids in BI. They kick butt no matter what.
Parthia's cavalry does seem really appealing, but early on their finicial status is disastrous. even on medium difficulty, it is just too hard for them to make any money.
I generally tend to stay away from eastern factions. In the imperial they really do not interest me. It is not the units be the cities/location.
I am enjoying what for me has been a relatively challenging and long campaign as Parthia. With most factions in this region I find you can dominate once you get decent phalanx infantry supported by archers and flank protecting cavalry. As Parthia you never get any even half-way respectable infantry so the challenge is conquering cities full of phalanxes with mainly cavalry armies. In a previous Parthia campaign I have thrown everything at Armenia from the start and then Pontus followed by the Seleucids using mainly horse archers. When the inevitable clash with Egypt started I found amies of horse archers were torn apart by chariots whereas Persian Cavalry could avoid contact more easily and deal with any survivors by melee when the arrows run out.
One of the most enjoyable aspects of RTW which is basicly missing from M2TW is the ability to massacre AI armies with minimal casualties and gain experienced veteran units you really care about through a long campaign. This is especially true of Persian Cavalry which usually starts with no experience and can become awesome.
In my most recent campaign I let the north alone at first and sent everything at Seleucia. The problem was once I was at war with the Seleucids I could not afford to attack Armenia for a long time and before I could develop Seleucia to produce Persians it was invaded by four stacks of Egyptians who sat there burning my valuable farmland at a rate I have never seen in this game before! For a long time I could only afford one decent army who eventually drove out the yellow scum. I so wanted to march all the way to the Nile but knew the Seleucid stacks would not sit idly by if I wasn't there to defend Seleucia. As my economy stagnated I realised the only long term way to survive this situation was to attack north through Armenia and Pontus as I should have done at the beginning. I found this a lot easier than I had expected and it allowed me to afford enough Persian CAvalry to take on the Seleucids and Egyptians together who formed a lasting alliance against me. That was a surprise and this remains the only game of RTW I have ever played where Eggies and the the big S never went to war!
The Seleucids were quickly annihilated although I made the near fatal mistake of besieging Antioch with my full stack of veteran Persian cavalry ON THE BRIDGE. Next turn I was attacked by a seleucid relief army of chariots and hoplites from Tarsus from the other side of the bridge and a full stack of mostly Pike Phalanxes from close behind me. I thought I was going to lose my best army in a spiky mess for sure and had nowhere to run away (discretion is definitely a horse archers best friend). I put all my units close to the bridge with skirmish off and routed the attacking army as they crossed then found I was tightly packed and surrounded by pike phalanxes bearing down from all directions. There was only one hope: the General was in the middle of the tightening circle with some peltasts. My entire stack charged en masse and broke through, surrounded the now leaderless greek horde and wiped them out. God I love moments like that when you turn certain defeat into glorious victory! I still think in future I will avoid sitting on bridges with horse archer stacks though!
Once you have Antioch Victory is assured, and you can enjoy the great battles with the Egyptians without the feeling of being overwhelmed by their endless stacks. With Persian cavalry you see more enemies as an opportunity to level up! Chariots can be scary when they charge though. Taking Antioch also allowed me to build war elephants for the first time which enabled a blitzkrieg against the lightly defended Egyptian wooden walled cities and stomped on their pesky chariots.
Key points:
1. Focus early on Armenia and Pontus.
2. Send the Campus Sakae army south by boat to join the attack on Armenia and let Sakae rot, it's worthless.
3. As soon as you can, build as many Persian Cav as you can and keep attacking.
4. Don't be afraid of the Seleucids big stacks you can always run away when you run out of arrows.
5. Don't despair no matter how many stacks Egypt sends your way. I almost gave this campaign up for dead when I was invaded by four stacks when all I had was Media, Babylonia and Elymais and one army. Now I am the regional superpower marching my armies down the Nile and plotting to start on Greece and Rome.
Great first post Timoleon the Brave. Welcome to the forum.
It does take some time for Parthia to get going, but once established. They're unstoppable(like most other factions).
So does anyone have any real money woes at the begining of the game? I've heard a few people say so but I never had any on H/H. I had a decent rate of expansion too. It seems if you just siege Selucia and score the hanging gardens and the city next to it with your general and 4 HA you dominate from their on.
I never buy infantry untill later when I need effective garrisons. It works out great.
And the answer to Cats is elephants isn't it?
When I played as Parthia I found my answer to enemy cataphracts were my own cataphracts!
The only factions apart from Parthia that is able to recruit Cataphracts are Armenia and Seleucids. Both of these should be eliminated early on. Elephants are capable of killing the best cavalries in the game; even armoured generals can’t offend these beasts.
Ugh, yes, that happened to me too, only I didn't win like you did. I lost very badly.... even lost my ten-star Ardumanish the Horseman. Taught me a lesson I would not soon forget.Quote:
Originally Posted by Timoleon the Brave
I find that the best counter to cataphracts is camels, especially camel cataphracts. Those humpy beasts kill cavalry, and especially cataphracts like nobody's business.
I forgot about camels, they do well against other horsemen, but I'd still imagine elephants are the tougher one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirinus