Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
Here it is -
http://twow.majordomo.ru/forum/index...c=1085&st=705&
Cegorach ~;)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
Here it is -
http://twow.majordomo.ru/forum/index...c=1085&st=705&
Cegorach ~;)
@Sundjata Keita
I didn't get anything. My e-mail is cegorach77@o2.pl - pleas send it again.
@EC
That is good. I am also waiting.
Cegorach :charge:
:furious: :furious2: :stare: :veryangry2: :wreck: :wacky: :veryangry: :mad: :angry:................. :barrel:
What do you mean you didn't get the email?????????
I did not save that email and it was quite long and had good information in, are you sure you didn't get it. It had pictures and everything.
I'm sure I sent it to that adress cos I followed the link from your pm.
Oh well I guess I will have to write another unit list, maybee I'll post it on here as well just so you don't lose it. ~;)
Hey I just thought, I used outlook so doesn't that save a draft somewhere? Anyone know where to retreive it from?
:joker: :beam: :grin: :cheesy: :grin2: :grin3: :happy: :sunny: :laugh3: :happy2:.......... :barrel:
Never mind about that, it did save a copy of the email I sent, have resent it and here are the units I think should make it into the game
Mamluk Egyptian Psiloi (skirmishers/light infantry)
Berber Crossbowmen
Ashirs
Royal Mamluks (imperial guard)
Saharan Cavalry
Bedouin Camel Warriors
Jezzail Camelry (berber camels with gun attatched to side)
Merenid Murabitins (javilineers)
Merenid Militia (heavy infantry)
Ta'ifait Al Ru'sa
Cimaroons
Pirates with muskets (I don't know the proper name)
African/pirate artillery crew (these are just at the end of your period I think)
Pirates??? you may be thinking, but pirates or some type of pirate rebels controlled Morroco and Tunisia through most of your period. Cimaroons are rebel native africans who attacked Portuguese and Spanish ships and built up strong defensive ports through the late part of the period. The artillery they got from trading with the protugeese and the Spanish when they built up Morocco economically (1492) - Having just defeated the African Moors and won back Granada and captured Morocco (1492). The Spanish lost it again a bit later.
@ Swords Master
As EC said it would be unwise to create too many provinces in Northern Africa as they would all be rebel states (well Moorish actually but you have way too many factions to include as it is)
Map update. Post your suggestions for changes.
Just as a side note, I've roughly arranged some other parts of the map and I'm working on them. In the latest screens there are still no forest areas, they will be added as some of the last features of the map. The region ownership is not correct. It's a test map and so it doesn't represent any particular P&M campaign.
I was also thinking that some regions could be made unconquerable. Now I can think of Sahara and Switzerland as appropriate for such treatment. They could produce local mercenary units, but I think it would be more interesting and gameplay wise to let them be rebel states permanently. What would you say?
Regards
EC
The maps looking great!
Wow that's a lot of cities right by each other, are you going to restrict how far units can move?
I can't see the last two pictures, I think it's something to do with the data transfer amount, it says it will refresh in an hour.
I don't know about unconquerable regions as this would restrict the freedom the player has. They would be like enemy spawn points you can't destroy. Maybee you could seige the city and when you win you have to leave but you can still plunder from them and so stop the amount of rebels being produced for a few turns. Whatever seems realistic
Is my latest Africa map okay? It doesn't have too many regions and has cut off most of Africa.
By the way if your thinking about who owns what, the Moors owned Granada until 1492 so it should start as a rebel city with some African units in.
Thanx! ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Sundjata Keita
It will certainly be considered I think. Many cities in Germany are very close I admit, but there are several long rivers (Rhine, Elbe, Oder) making conquest of Germany relatively troublesome. Many cities are located next to the bridges, making it impossible for an enemy army to pass a river without conquering a city. Most of the cities will be strongly fortified and hard to get. There will have to be many bloody assaults, wonderfully resembling the peculiarity of the military conflicts within the HRE boundaries. :duel: ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Sundjata Keita
I've just check and all the screens were visible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundjata Keita
Such unconquerable regions can have isolated capitals and so they wouldn't produce nothing but mercenaries for a player. A player could still place a fort in such a region. This, I think, would change the strategic value of those unconquerable states - they would be the only permanent neutral regions. Switzerland was neutral, Sahara was a free land of nomadic tribes, or rather a no mans land.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundjata Keita
Genarally, it is OK. Soon I'll show some African (map) screenshots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundjata Keita
The whole ownership issue is not yet of my interest. The ownership you see in my screens is more of a placeholder. That's why I don't show what's the year in my screens...
Regards
EC
Great work EC!
A few comments on Spain:
Add a new procince: Cadiz. Move Seville one or 2 tiles up, maybe cutting some space off Madrid. (I think Madrid is too big IMO).
Consider adding Valladolid as well. I don´t know if that would be too much, but I think it should be ok.
Also, Madrid has a LOT of mountains north of the city Granada itself is 2000m above sea level. I don´t know if you edited the geography yet...
Consider it done. ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
[QUOTE=Sundjata Keita]:joker: :beam: :grin: :cheesy: :grin2: :grin3: :happy: :sunny: :laugh3: :happy2:.......... :barrel:
Never mind about that, it did save a copy of the email I sent, have resent it and here are the units I think should make it into the game
Still nothing... Use this e-mail cegorach77@o2.pl ~:confused:
Minor spelling nitpicks: It's 'Santiago' not 'Santiango'. Palma should be moved a tile to south-west, look at any map of Mallorca. If you're using 'Krakow' and 'Poznan', use 'Warszawa' instead of Warsaw. I don't see if there is one, but if there isn't, there should be a bridge on Oder next to Breslau.
Thanks for your corrections eadingas. A wandering historian, huh? :book: Why don't you pop in here more often and see if things are fine then. ~:)Quote:
Originally Posted by eadingas
As the map is being made and it is more sooner than later it will be done, lets brainstorm what trading goods can we have in our mod guys? And what about resources? Any ideas in what to mod them? I mean should there be slaves as a resource for that instance? :dizzy2:
Would we want to make forts more permanent and fortified?
Regards
EC
Is it possible?Quote:
Would we want to make forts more permanent and fortified?
On a more detailed note:
How many resources per province are we looking at? Are we going to place the american imports as resources in their european receivers? I mean such things as cacao or tobacco.
IMO, slaves should NOT be a permanent resource, and maybe could be renamed to "war prisoners" for that matter.
Now, as for Valladolid and Cadiz:
Valladolid: lightly fortified, mainly agricultural production,
Province name: Valladolid. (I don´t really think Castilla la Vieja would be appropriate as it would include Leon as well. In the other hand Leon will be Leon, so it might be reasonable.)
Cadiz: HUGE imports from America. Own production lower than Seville, main product: wine. Powerful fortress.
As a side historical note: From the XVI to the late XVIII cent, Cadiz was the first (and only) port in mainland spain where the american ships were allowed to stop. until approximately the end of the XVII century, the ships would follow up the Guadalquivir to Seville, where the gold and silver would be taxed and stored. But the stop in Cadiz was mandatory. That is one of the reasons Cadiz was so tempting. When an american convoy was inside the port, the amount of gold and silver in the city was uncomparable to any other city in Europe.
That said, Seville was the biggest city in Spain at the period.
There should be fewer resource per region than in vanilla RTW I think; 2 being the medium and most common number. I believe that smaller provinces (like German states) would have less trading goods than some large ones (like Egypt for example), we should also vary the agricultural output of course. All this is a matter of game balance and I assume we'll be working on it A LOT. For what can I say about some regions owned and around Poland is that they provided such tradable goods as:Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
-grain,
-wood,
-cattle,
-horses,
-furs,
-amber,
-salt,
-silver,
-copper,
-iron,
-weapons and armor, (german states)
what other resources would probably be in game:
-gold,
-wine,
??????? you name it
Post your ideas for tradable goods/resources alike.
Regards
EC
I think you should include imports as resources as this is possibly the only way of doing it. Some of these could be :-
-spices
-clothing
-silk (unless this goes in the clothing resource)
-cotton (unless this goes in the clothing resource)
-fish eg. cod (Bordeaux and Nantes were fishing ports in the 16th century)
-logwood
-tobacco
You have Persia in the map right?
So then there was
-Japanese copper went to Persia
-Carpets (these went back to Japan and China)
Thats all I've got I'm afraid
Gentlemen,
I am glad to announce that our official website is ready :balloon2: :balloon2:
http://www.pikeandmusket.cjb.net
Even tought it still may suffer some changes, it is pretty much ready to receive visitors.
~:cheers:
Well, thats pretty much all i have to say...
Another idea for a resource would have to be slaves, I know that these may be aquired by forcing a captured settlment into slavery so it couldnt be so hard to have slaves imported from Africa etc, I know that the Spanish utilized slave labour on their sugar plantations (another key import from European colonies in the Americas) in the New World, mainly in Cuba in this period.
Can I be added to the "TEAM" list on the website? ~D
I am the modeller for this mod (I think) and am hopefully going to get some units to do from cegorach1 soon.
When is the forum going to be up on the website?
The whole team setup you see on that site is generally a mtw version development team. Sure, you should be included SK.
Ok, this is going to be the list of resources for Spain. I´ll start with Iberia, and will edit the post to add other european territories as I research them.
-Iron and weapons: weapons were produced where ron was freely available.
Mainly 2 places: Toledo and Vizcaya (Madrid and Navarre in the current map).
-Wool (clothes). Leon, Castilla.
-Silk: Granada
-Mercurium (mercury): Leon. To the sceptics, this product was already mined by the romans and was considered VERY valuable. Although maybe for game purposes we could substitute it with say silver.
-Seville: american imports: gold, silver, cacao, tobacco, sugar. This should be one of the richest provinces in the game.
-Cadiz: Wine, agriculture, salt.
-Barcelona: wood, mediterranean imports, agricultural production, clothes.
-Valencia: fruits, wine, salt, silver. (Cartagena).
-Balearic islands: wine, fish.
-Santiago: fish, wood.
all for now.
I'm sorry if you are not in the list. That team was the team of the mtw version.
I'll talk to cegorach.
What, no sugar ~:eek: This was a very important import from the New World to Spain, certainly more so than potatoes...... :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron-Chef
well, IMHO potatoes were more important than sugar, specially because sugar was also produced in europe. And besides, I don´t know how many resources are going to be placed in Seville. If I add another couple, it could probably unbalance economy too much. Consider also that trade will be improved by building upgrades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron-Chef
Actually, there were almost no slaves in mainland Spain in the whole spanish history. plantations were the only place where slave labour was employed.
I hate to push my idea too hard but you seem to be underestimating the importance of sugar, not only to the Spanish economy but to European diplomatic relations! It is a documented fact that the British monarchs were so keen on sugar that war with the Spanish was avoided on several occasions due to the blackmailing properties of cutting off the sugar trade to England, and sugar,at least cane sugar was NOT grown in Europe as it was native to the New World and could not be grown in the temperate climate of Europe, although beet sugar is another story.... I can see Im getting to sidetracked here but just setting some things right :book:
I have to agree with Iron-Chef here, pototoes were not very important at all in Spain when they first arrived.The Spanish put it to very limited use. In the Spanish Colonies potatoes were considered food for the underclasses; when brought to the Old World they would be used primarily to feed hospital inmates. This was because the potatoes then were not stored properly and turned green, this green was solanine and made the potatoes taste bitter.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
Also potatoes could not be used for trade as it was not until 1780 that any other European country accepted them, namely Ireland. You've probably heard of the Irish potato famine. It wasn't until the 1840's that they spread to places like North America and mainland Europe (although France got there a little earlier). :book:
Don't know anything about sugar apart from it was a tradable resource.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count, tHe dEmEnToR
Exactly. I will send you revised list of the team members and supporters. ~:)
BTW, the sugar was NOT produced in Europe until XIXth century, when white beets processing was invented.
http://www.monitorsugar.com/htmtext/HISTORY.htm