No , this is the first time I am hearing about itQuote:
Originally Posted by Proletariat
I realise that you meant www.ornery.org ? seams nice ~:cheers:
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No , this is the first time I am hearing about itQuote:
Originally Posted by Proletariat
I realise that you meant www.ornery.org ? seams nice ~:cheers:
The way I see it, Palestinians doesn't have a legal government that is actively attacking innocents. Palestinians aren't morally banckrupt, but the ones that are killing people are. To me the actions of the terrorists don't represent the whole of the Palestinian people, while the Isreal's actions are legally sanctioned by a government we recongnize and (I believe) the people support. That's a difference to me.Quote:
You blame the Palestinians atrocities on what you call a few radicals while you seem to believe the state of Israel wants to take over all of Palestine. Again something they could easliy achieve if that was their goal. Maybe it was clear to you but it certainly begs the facts. Bye tyhe way even if Israel were as terrible as you make it out to be and stole the land from the Palestinians that still in no way justifies them using their children as human bombs to kill Israeli children. If I steal my neighbors home does that give him the right to strap bombs on his kids and send them over for a visit? The Palestinians are morally bankrupt at the moment. In fact Palestine reminds me very much of Sicily under the Mafia. The people are so terrorised by their own Mafioso. Their tactics are exactly the same
How much of a leadership do they have? Do the people of Palestine have any say in their "leaders"? I honestly don't know, but I don't think they have much of a say. And if that is the case, how can you blame the entire populace for something they have no say in?
It's a pretty good forum. You remind me in quite a few ways of an Israeli poster over there, so I was just curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar44
Nice to meetchya.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
In your logic , we should have to welcome human bombs , only because there is no democratic government that sends them...explain that to the 3,000 americans who "died" by a "freedom fighters" and "holly warriors"
You know , reading the post's in this treads remind's me how hitler came to be what he was , he just used the stupidity and the pseudo liberalism of the west
Wake up and acknowledge your enemies !
I'll have to admit that this is to some extent true and partly this has to be blamed on the media. I am actually quite shocked how successful Michael Moore became over here (I guess he is feeding some prejudices that already existed to some extent - and isn't it great if you have some prejudices on a nation, and some guy from the very same nation comes to confirm them? :rolleyes: ). Frquently hearing about amok runs where some guy with a guny goes on a killing spree are not really helping either (please note that I am aware that such incidents are not as frequently as media reports make it appear).Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
I have to admit I am not quite sure what you want to say here. If the message is that it would be enough just to oppose the US to win an election or to gain some additional percentage points I would disagree. Opposing the current administration only helps because the population here opposes large parts of the foreign policy of this administration - but again, IMO that has nothing to do with anti-Americanism.Quote:
I could get elected to almost any office over there, regardless of my political clout or party affiliation, but saying "And I will teach the Americans we are not going to lay down for them! I will show them they are every bit as responsible to the world government as we are". True?
No, that is not my logic. I am saying that you can't blame all Palestinians. You can blame only the Palestinians that support or are a part of terrorist units. On the other hand, you can blame the Isreali government because it is a legal government, that is supposedly on "our" side, that murders innoccents. That is what I am saying.Quote:
In your logic , we should have to welcome human bombs , only because there is no democratic government that sends them...explain that to the 3,000 americans who "died" by a "freedom fighters" and "holly warriors"
You know , reading the post's in this treads remind's me how hitler came to be what he was , he just used the stupidity and the pseudo liberalism of the west
Wake up and acknowledge your enemies !
And I don't understand what the hell Hitler has to do with anything I've just said...
I believe the anti-American sentiments transcend just our government. You feel it's limited to that. I think we have to agree to disagree here. I certainly know enough Germans that are friendly enough with Americans to say it's not a universal opinion. Suffice it to say, have you ever asked yourself why Germans (or Dutch or French, or Italians) seem to care so much about domestic American issues, such as gun control or our domestic sales taxes? Why is it so important to you all to disarm us and force us to change from a sales tax to a VAT? I think I know the answer...
Yeah, they're all going to invade us... :help:
~;)
But America isn't exactly the most hands off with foriegn countries... So isn't it fair for them to try and influence us while we do it to others?
Uhm ... I can only (to some extent) speak for Germans, but you can believe me that your sales tax is of extremely limited interest to the general population here (personally I never met a person interseted in that topic).Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
Regarding gun control - it's intersting because the way you handle it in the US is rather alien to us and because it's in the media all the time (and it's in the media all the time because news from people who go on a killing spree with a gun see - as simple as that). Makes people feel comfortable to see something like that on TV and then lean back to think "well - fortunately this is not gonna happen here".
By and large the things about American policy that interest people here in Germany are the things that actually have an effect on us. Just because we discuss certain issues of US politics with an American (like on this board) does not mean that these issues are a topic when we talk with other Germans - rest assured, in my "normal" life, German politics are my primary concern - and the same is true for most of my fellow countrymen ~;)
It is not so complicated , the muslims as a whole (you know what , 90% of them) are believers of "Jihad" against the western world , I am sure you know that . now , instead of realise it , you and other pseudo liberals and self-righteousness , choose to attack the only "western" state in the muslim East with out knowing the real danger even after 9/11 . I am sure that you never heard a muslim preaching and calling his men to go and become holly warriors against the "little satan" (the Jews) and against the "big satan" (the christians)Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
You can think want you want , but remember , every time that the biased CNN is reporting about some "innocent" palestinians that were killed by Israeli soldier , they don't (ever ever) explain why - you can compleat the picture
:book:
Is that just your "personal" rough estimate or can you give us any actual facts that would support that hypothesis?Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar44
I'm sure Faisal and bmollosm will be glad to know about how evil their religion is. :bow:Quote:
It is not so complicated , the muslims as a whole (you know what , 90% of them) are believers of "Jihad" against the western world , I am sure you know that . now , instead of realise it , you and other pseudo liberals and self-righteousness , choose to attack the only "western" state in the muslim East with out knowing the real danger even after 9/11 . I am sure that you never heard a muslim preaching and calling his men to go and become holly warriors against the "little satan" (the Jews) and against the "big satan" (the christians)
I find it very funny that the same people who talk about anti Semitism make such obviously biased and untrue statements about Muslims.
And when did I talk about attacking Isreal? And how are Palestinians the "real danger"?
And no I have not heard any sort of Islamic sermon.
CNN is biased. Biased towards to government and Isreal, as is all American media.Quote:
You can think want you want , but remember , every time that the biased CNN is reporting about some "innocent" palestinians that were killed by Israeli soldier , they don't (ever ever) explain why - you can compleat the picture
Again Ibelieve its very similar to Sicily under the mafia. The people are so terrified of the radicals that they have become complicent in their affairs. I doubt there are many Palestinians who have a love for the Jews. Not that I can blame them after whats been happening for all these yeears as both sides have been used by the other arab states for their own purposes. That is the destruction of Israel. It is only the other Arab states that profit from this conflict. How much again does Egypt get not to fight with Israel?Quote:
Is that just your "personal" rough estimate or can you give us any actual facts that would support that hypothesis?
I'm not talking about discussing things on here. That would be pretty small of me to say "how dare you have an opinion". I picked the 2 specific examples I did, because it's things that Europe (specifically France and Germany) have tried to affect domestic American policy on, through the UN and the WTC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ser Clegane
The sales tax vs. VAT was actually brought to the WTC, with France & Germany wanting to slap punitive tariffs on the US until they added a VAT, claiming a sales tax wasn't sufficent. The WTC didn't see things your way.
The gun control issue got played out when a UN resolution got introduced calling for all member states to require their citizenry be disarmed. I'm afraid I'm not even certain what the status of that resolution is these days.
Call me paranoid, but this is why most Americans are NOT interested in a world government. We don't want a bunch of beauracrats from another country dictating how we are allowed to live here at home. As far as I know, America generally does not involve itself in the domestic policies of Western Europe.
Ser
Read the koran and then ask any muslim if he belive's it
So simple
"Religion is necessary for the education of clumsy nations..." (Jiobani Gentile)
:book:
Um... I'm very confused. :help:
What exactly are you trying to say?
1. what is a "bmollosm" ? you have just invented a new Arab name...Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
2. "biased and untrue statements about muslims" said the new Laurence of Arabia whom , I imagine , is living in Europe or North America
3. "attacking israel" with words , OK ? we are just talking here...
4. the palestinians as a very very important part of islam
5. CNN is biased towards israel - aha , now we entered to the humoristic part of the thread...
sorry, meant bmolsson. He and Faisal are both Muslim members of this forum, as well as others that don't post that often in the backroom.
If you are reffering to me, I am living in New Jersey. And I never claimed to be Lawerence of Arabia.Quote:
2. "biased and untrue statements about muslims" said the new Laurence of Arabia whom , I imagine , is living in Europe or North America
Oh. Ok.Quote:
3. "attacking israel" with words , OK ? we are just talking here...
How do Palestinians fit in with the religion? Or are you saying that Palestinains make up a large amount of Muslims?Quote:
4. the palestinians as a very very important part of islam
I'm not that good at humor, but I try. ~;)Quote:
5. CNN is biased towards israel - aha , now we entered to the humoristic part of the thread...
What it is going to be with the Nets , ha ? That is the question
~:cheers:
Why don't you just say what you are getting at? Even simpler.Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ser Clegane
Just a moment , you really don't know what is written in the koran and still arguing about the whole subject ???????????? ~:confused: ~:confused: ~:confused: ~:confused: ~:confused:
I have to admit that I am not aware of either of these cases. Could you provide any background information (i.e. links to articles) that would expand on these issues? This seems a bit to vague to comment on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
I have a hard time believing that France and Germany would try to meddle with the US tax system if they did not feel that it actually would effect their economy - that the WTC ruled against them does not mean that there is no reasonable interest.
I think there are also cases where the US briught issues to the WTC and lost - should I interpret that in such a way that the US is also interested in EU matters that are none of their business?
Uhm ... I never claimed to know the Quran by heart. You claimed that muslims as a whole believe in a Jihad against the Western world and I asked you to back up that statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar44
I would think the onus to point out the relevant quotes from the Quran is on you not on me.
If you think that is to much to ask, please forgive me if I have some problems to take your sweeping statements seriously.
Just for the start -
Muhhamad said :
[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
OK another one -
Muhhamad said:
[5.78] Those who disbelieved from among the children of Israel were cursed by the tongue of Dawood and Isa, son of Marium; this was because they disobeyed and used to exceed the limit.
And another one -
muhhamad daid :
[5.13] But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others).
I am tired now and my kid ia crying , so...
Like maybe I'm making this stuff up as I go? ~;)
It's okay, I know, it gets pretty hard to believe sometimes:
I discovered the UN's attempt to dictate terms to the US on gun issues on National Review: http://www.nationalreview.com/commen...lott071103.asp. The link to the U.N. conference to "Prevent, combat, and eradicate the Illicit Trade in small arms and Light Weapons in All Aspects" (sorry: can't do any html text on my home computer for some reason...) http://disarmament.un.org:8080/cab/poa.html
The link to the story on how you want to force a VAT down our throats:
http://www.americaneconomicalert.org...sp?Prod_ID=837. To be fair, you probably have heard of it, in another form... since you charge a VAT on your software manufacturers and we don't, you've taken to calling it a tax subsidy of Microsoft, even though they receive no money from the federal government (and indeed, the federal government doesn't charge any American software companies a VAT). The government DOES charge a corporate income tax, which affects the price of the software, and Microsoft DOES pay this, but apparently that's not good enough for the EU tax wizards. They want to set America's tax policy for us.
I don't have a problem with you guys going to the WTO because you think something is an unfair trade advantage. But it was shown repeatedly no advantage existed. You wanted to force us to adopt a VAT, so it would be easier for you to do comparisons of national taxation load on the competing products' market value.
Sorry mate, you didn't catch me this time... keep trying though. ~;)
Edit: Sorry, sorry, sorry. I made a major faux pas that drives me nuts in real life. Please forgive: The WTC is the buildings that came tumbling down 4 years ago. I meant to say the WTO.
good night
JEWS IN THE KORAN AND EARLY ISLAMIC TRADITIONS Dr. Leah Kinberg Lecture delivered in May 2003, Monash University, Melbourne -I- INTRODUCTIONAccording to Islam, the verses of the Koran were revealed to Muhammad gradually, within a period of 22 years. Twelve years in his home town of Mecca, and ten years in Medina, the town to which he migrated in 622, after being persecuted by the unbelievers of Mecca. While still in Mecca, the koranic verses focused on the idea of the One God, reward and punishment, Heaven and Hell. The verses of Medina were entirely different. They dealt with judicial matters, but also with some of the old and familiar stories about the creation of the world, Adam and Eve, Noah’s ark, Pharaoh, Abraham, Moses, David,Jesus, among other figures. A special place was reserved for the Jews. About 100 koranic verses mention the Jews by name, either as “Jews” or as the “children of Israel”, or yet as “those who followed the right path.” Aside from these verses, there are many others that deal with the Jews without mentioning them by name, and only the commentators draw our attention to the fact that the people described in those verses are no other than the Jews. Generally speaking, it is possible to say that about a third of the verses that have been revealed in Medina, deal with Jews. Before getting into the specific statements that the Koran makes about the Jews, attention should be drawn to the ambivalent way in which the Koran treats the Jews. A few koranic verses consider the “Children of Israel” the chosen nation. The others refer to the Jews as deceivers, treacherous, distorters of the truth, and – above all – infidels. The term “infidel,” however, is not aimed towards the Jews in particular, but rather means those who did not embrace Islam, i.e. Christians, Pagans and others. The interest of the Koran in Jews, and especially its reaction against them, its criticism and defamation, can be explained in the light of Muhammad’s interaction with the Jews of Medina.The city of Medina had five tribes, two pagan and three Jews. Within a few years, the pagan tribes embraced Islam and the Jews were expelled or massacred. When Muhammad first came to Medina he thought that the Jews would join him and made some overtures towards them. Muhammad stated that his new followers’ fasting day would be on the 10thof the first Month, equivalent to the Jewish Day of Atonement, Yom Kippur, and while praying he faced Jerusalem, as he saw the Jews doing. The Jews refused to join Muhammad, but he did not give up easily. Only after 16 or 18 months, when he saw how stubborn the Jews were, did Muhammad begin to go against them, first by changing the one day of fast into a full month fast, Ramadan, then by changing the direction of the prayer from Jerusalem to Mecca, and later on by getting rid of the Jews, first by expulsion and then by massacre. Within a few years, the Arab peninsula was clean of non-Muslims, and Muhammad, being strong and successful, was able to abolish the presence of any religion except Islam in the holy land of the Arab peninsula.
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These details should be kept in mind while consulting any of the koranic verses that deal with Jews, especially those verses that have recently been used as political arguments. -II- APES AND PIGSI will begin with some current statements made by Islamic fundamentalists, who would frequently refer to Jews as the sons of apes and pigs. Such descriptions can be heard in sermons at mosques in the Palestinian territories, inspeeches of Saudi religious leaders, as well as in Iraqi sermons: On the 5thof May 2001, after Mr. Shimon Peres visited Egypt, the Egyptian al-Akhbar Internet paper stated that “lies and deceit are not foreign to Jews. The best evidence that Jews go back on their word is their denial of the principles on which they signed in the Oslo and the Madrid Accords. For this reason, Allah changed their shape and made them into monkeys and pigs”. http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/ant...ess0501.htmlOn the 13thof December 2002, Palestinian television used the occasion of the Muslim month of Ramadan to broadcast programs with a distinctly anti-Jewish theme, including a sermon in which Jews were called “the brothers of monkeys and pigs”.The sermon opened with: “Praised be Allah, who has cursed [the Jews], the brothers of monkeys and pigs, by a flow of curses that will go on until the Resurrection of the dead.” In one of his sermons, the Saudi sheikh Abd Al-Rahman Al-Sudayyis, imamand preacher at the al-Haraam mosque – the most important mosque in Mecca – beseeched Allah to annihilate the Jews. He also urged the Arabs to give up peace initiatives with the Jews because they are “the scum of the human race, the rats of the world, the violators of pacts and agreements, the murderers of the prophets, and the offspring of apes and pigs.” http://www.alraialaam.com/20-04-2002...tpage.htm#03In another sermon (19thof April 2002), the same imam declared “Read history and you will understand that the Jews of yesterday are the evil fathers of the Jews of today, who are evil offspring, infidels, distorters of [others'] words, calf-worshippers, prophet-murderers, prophecy-deniers... the scum of the human race 'whom Allah cursed and turned into apes and pigs...” http://www.alminbar.cc/alkhutab/khut...=5544Comparing between the ancient and the contemporary Jews, seems to be a central issue in these sermons. A Saudi sheikh, Ba'd bin Abdallah Al-Ajameh Al-Ghamidi, in one of his sermons in Taif, explained that “The current behavior of the brothers of apes and pigs, their treachery, violation of agreements, and defiling of holy places ... is connected with the deeds of their forefathers during the early period of Islam – which proves the great similarity between all the Jews living today and the Jews who lived at the dawn of Islam.” http://www.alminbar.cc/alkhutab/khut...mediaURL=4331I will consider one last example. According to Education in Saudi Arabia, a 1995 book published by the Saudi Cultural Mission to the United States, the roots of the contemporary Saudi education policy date back to the 18thcentury when Abd al-
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Wahhab called for the return of Muslims to the fundamentals of Islam as preached by the Prophet Muhammad. The book cites 236 principles that explain how students should promote loyalty to Islam by denouncing any system or theory that conflicts with Islamic law.The students are also taught to understand Islam in a “correct manner,” how to establish and spread Islam throughout the world, and how “to fight spiritually and physically for the sake of Allah.” One of these principles of the Saudi education system has been the teaching of hatred of Jews and Christians. A textbook for eighth graders explains why Jews and Christians were cursed by Allah and turned into apes and pigs. Both Jews and Christians have sinned by accepting polytheism and therefore have incurred Allah's wrath. To punish them, Allah has turned them into apes and pigs. On the 7thof May 2002 the Saudi television channel Iqraa featured a talk show called“Modern Muslim Woman,” in which a three and a half years old girl was interviewed. The interview was filmed by state-controlled Saudi television and broadcast to Muslims around the world. This is how the interview was conducted: - What's your name?- Basmallah.- Basmallah, how old are you?- Three and a half.- Are you a Muslim?- Yes. - Basmallah, are you familiar with the Jews?- Yes. - Do you like them?- No. - Why don't you like them?- Because . . . - Because they are what? - They're apes and pigs. - Who said they are so? - Our God.- Where did he say this? - In the Koran. At the end of the interview, the girl was blessed by the following words: May our God bless her. No one could wish Allah would give him a more believing girl than she is. May Allah bless her and her father and mother. The next generation of children must be true Muslims. We must educate them now while they are still children so that they will be true Muslims.http://memri.org/video/segment1_basmallah.htmlThe idea of the Jews as descendants of pigs and apes is drawn from the Koran that knows to tell about a group of Jews who did not keep the Sabbath and were
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consequently punished: God made the members of this group as despicable as monkeys, pigs and idol worshipers. The story is told in the 7thchapter of the Koran, verses 163-166: [163] Ask them concerning the town standing close by the sea. Behold! They transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath. For on the day of their Sabbath their fish did come to them, openly holding up their heads, but on the day they had no Sabbath, they came not. Thus did We make a trial of them, for they were given to transgression... [165] When they disregarded the warnings that had been given them, We rescued those who forbade evil; but We visited the wrong-doers with a grievous punishment, because they were given to transgression. [166] When in their insolence they transgressed (all) prohibitions, We said to them: “Be ye apes, despised and rejected.” Koran 2: 65-66 reads: [65] And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath; We said to them: “Be ye apes, despised and rejected.” [66] So We made it an example to their own time and to their posterity, and a lesson to those who fear Allah.Commentaries do not explain the process of this transformation, but rather present the reader with anecdotes to demonstrate it, while mentioning also rats and lizards. Thus we find the next story, put in the mouth of the prophet: We were in an army with the Apostle of Allah . We got some lizards. I roasted one lizard and brought it to the Apostle of Allah and placed it before him. He took a stick and counted its fingers. He then said: A group from the children of Isra'il was transformed into an animal of the land (reptiles ?), and I do not know which animal it was. He did not eat it nor did he forbid (its eating). (Sunan Abu Dawud 27/3786). It is interesting to mention that such transformation into pigs and monkeys could be also the fate of Muslims who immersed themselves into the carnal pleasures of this world. Allah would supernaturally transform them into monkeys and pigs:I heard the Prophet saying, “From among my followers there will be somepeople who will consider as lawful illegal sexual intercourse, wearing of silk, drinking alcohol and listening to music. … Allah will transform them into monkeys and pigs. Thus they will remain to the Day of Resurrection” (Bukhari 7/494B
How about what Muslims have to say about itQuote:
I find it very funny that the same people who talk about anti Semitism make such obviously biased and untrue statements about Muslims.
Quote:
January 03, 2004
"All Western countries are enemies of Islam"
Who said that? Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan, whom the New York Times identifies as "the father of the Pakistani [nuclear] bomb."
The story reveals that "as investigators unravel the mysteries of the North Korean, Iranian and now the Libyan nuclear projects, Pakistan — and those it empowered with knowledge and technology they are now selling on their own — has emerged as the intellectual and trading hub of a loose network of hidden nuclear proliferators.
"That network is global, stretching from Germany to Dubai and from China to South Asia, and involves many middlemen and suppliers. But what is striking about a string of recent disclosures, experts say, is how many roads appear ultimately to lead back to the Khan Research Laboratories in Kahuta, where Pakistan's own bomb was developed. . . .
"Dr. Khan, a fervent nationalist, has condemned the system that limits legal nuclear knowledge to the five major nuclear powers, or that has ignored Israel's nuclear weapon while focusing on the fear of an Islamic bomb. 'All Western countries,' he was once quoted as saying, 'are not only the enemies of Pakistan but in fact of Islam.'
"In the years before Pakistan's first test in 1998, Dr. Khan and his team began publishing papers in the global scientific literature on how to make and test its uranium centrifuges. In the West, these publications would have been classified secret or top secret. But Dr. Khan made no secret of his motive: he boasted in print of circumventing the restrictions of the Western nuclear powers, declaring in a 1987 paper that he sought to pierce 'the clouds of the so-called secrecy.' . . .
"For now the world is left watching a terrifying race — one that pits scientists, middlemen and extremists against Western powers trying to intercept, shipload by shipload, the technology as it spreads through the clandestine network. Mr. Bush remains wary of cracking down on a fragile Pakistan, for fear pressure could tip the situation toward the radicals." (Thanks to LGF.)
This last is something many of you seem either to deny or ignore.Quote:
Unfortunately, the goal of our Islamifascist enemy is the establishment of a global reign of Islam. This is what our political leaders refuse to admit or are unable to comprehend, that our enemy has declared war against the West. It is essentially a nihilistic enemy, deaf to appeals to reason or mercy, malignantly inoculated by blind faith against all rational persuasion, and consequently and pathologically committed to the conquest of the West. Iran and Syria are the chief source of funds behind the campaign to force the West to bow to Mecca, or face misery, death and destruction by an enemy bent on world domination.
LINK
More
Islamism
Certainly all Muslims are not a like in every manner just as all other people are different from eachother. However we do know that millions of them feel this way and we are told that more are thinking this way everyday and that we are to blame for it. Just how many really believe this. I think many more than any of you would believe. In fact I would say in the Middle east more than half.
From around 7 to 11th Century CE, most Islamic nations were very tolerant towards Jews and Christians, and many played an important role in government. The whole Jihad idea was pretty much extinct until it was revived as a response to the Crusaders.
And it's not like Christianity or Judiasm or any major religion has had a spottless past.
Some Muslims. Not all Muslims. I really don't understand how all Muslims could be condemmed by the words and actions of a minority of crazy hate spewing people, any more than all Christians could be considered the same as some of those crazy people who were Christian that were on that site that Faisal posted a bit back.Quote:
How about what Muslims have to say about it
edit: Not saying that you did condem them all, but it seems to me a very slippery slope.
Thats the modern revisionist take for sure. It is not reality however.Quote:
From around 7 to 11th Century CE, most Islamic nations were very tolerant towards Jews and Christians, and many played an important role in government. The whole Jihad idea was pretty much extinct until it was revived as a response to the Crusaders.
I guess that would be along the same line as the US administration trying to force the EU to allow GM food without being labeled?Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
I'd like to disagree with you that this VAT case is a very good example of European anti-Americanism and/or the European obsession to meddle with domestic US legislation.
It's a typical trade issue that we regularly see from both sides of the Atlantic Ocean.
Regarding the other case - as it is getting a bit late here I did not have the time to thooroughly read through the UN program. After a first screening I did not have the impression that it aims to disarm US citizens, but that it is meant to prevent illicit trade and manufacturing of guns.
I will have to go through it in detail though to build an opinion about how this would affect your personal right to carry a gun...