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Every religion has it's wacko fringe, some just get more air-time than others.
Yeah as shown by Lucjan not knowing about them .
You would have thought that with all this alledged apperent anti-Isreal bias in the media you would get a lot more air time for the nuts , but so far since this current upsurge in violence started I have only seen the rabid rabbis come up 3 times , and two of those were in the Israeli press .
And as before this is not correct. If the engine components are made in Iran, but the missile is assembled in Lebanon - the manufacturing process occured where?Quote:
Originally Posted by x-dANGEr
Quote:
It's attack is justified. BUT, not with all this damage and civilian deaths.
A result of careless war waged by both sides. If your going to claim one side is justified in its attack - then the other side is just as rightous in its attack in response. Hezbullah's attack was justified (IMO) because he wanted to free captives, and to do that he captived some soldiers. Now for Israel to free captives, it can free some of the already captured, that is to solve the whole matter. Or, attack Lebanon, captive some "soldiers" (Hezbullah men in this way), and then call for a trade. NOT rampage through the country killing everyone no matter what he/she thinks..
So Isreal is justified in responding to Hezbollah's attack using the same logic as presented here. You can not have justification of violence both ways.
Remember x-danger I have not justified neither side. I beleive both are wrong, my argument is against your justification of Hezbollah's actions.
Your getting warm....Quote:
If my answer to your question is irrelevant, then maybe your question is so?
Again getting warm - now apply this comment to your emotional appeal postions.Quote:
Pointing out my so-called 'quibbles' is quibbling, avoiding questions and minapulating words is quibbling.
Again getting warm -Quote:
Let's see:
I said Israel never freed captives without a trade, and I was wrong there. That is one. The others? (If you're going to say the UK/France thingy, I think you're wrong. Because mainly, I said Europe, you asked who specifacily, and I said maybe the UK).
Correct - emotional appeal was demonstrated once again to be its own refutation.Quote:
You on the other hand, has called Hezbullah a Palestinian group, which makes for one for you, too.
Haven't you figured it out yet. The Israeli-Palenstine, Israeli-Arab, Israili -Hezbollah are all so confused and convoluted (SP) that there is no clear stance other then to find both sides in the wrong because they all want to destory each other.Quote:
To clear your stance.
Read what is written - the answer is self evident. The base is from what is lawful and what is not lawful. Are you attempting to argue that there is no portion of the palenstine prisoners being held that were caught engaging in criminal activity.Quote:
Wrong.. Then the wrong base is flowing out of..?
Nice try again - but emotional appeal is its own refutation. You should pay better attention to what is written. Here try reading the statement again and pay attention to these two lines.Quote:
Since when the death and capture of less than 10 soldiers is as disgusting as destroying a whole country?
Hezbollah's actions are just as disgusting as Israels. The degree of damage is more for Israel but the nature of both is the same.
Selective input of information is indeed the fault of the person who does not delve into the issue. Again you have demonstrated that emotional appeal is its own refutation. You should read the Thomas Jefferson quote in my signature, it applies to the visual media of today even more so then the written media of Thomas Jefferson's time.Quote:
I said 100 times I hadn't heared about it on the TV.. And blame me not, am not very good at gathering news on the net 0-i
The orginial statement was an emotional appeal, to demonstrate that the type of arguement is its own refutation. It seems that you did not read the paragraph in its entirity.Quote:
Your original statement implied a usual, better said, continous missile attacks.. Note though, some of those links say that no missiles have been launched after 2000, and the one that does, shows that less than 10 of those were Katyoshas..
are you attempting to suggest that Israel should just sit and take the hits?Quote:
So you suggest Hezbullah should just sit and take the hits?
If your not reading the statement in its entirity and jumping to conclusions not there - you will be once again demonstrating that emotional appeal is its own refutation.
Leaping to false conclusions, hiding it behind a question does not change what was written. Read the statement again and place it in the context of your statement in which it was in response to.Quote:
So you state all arabian channels are pro-Hezbullah?
Oh I see, so Europe has to worry about being nuked by Israel. Look at how Iran's proxy, Hezbollah acts and tell me if you want Iran to become a nuclear nation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
One of those wouldn't be the fringe group that claimed to have kidnapped a palenstine civilian would it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
An interesting group that seems not have existed until just recently. :wall:
So are you saying that Iran is nothing better than a terrorist cell? So far there is no evidence of Iran supplying terrorists at all, nor a reason to believe that Iran would ever nuke Europe or America.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir
what kind of evidence are you looking for there have been certain statements made, the last paragraph is one type of evidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/li...11-rferl03.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by globalsecurity source
Now I know verbal statements are not necessarily concrete proof of active support of terrorists, or even supplying terrorists but it does give some background information, and it does provide some evidence of direct support.
How does Iran come into this? Your original conceit was that, in the worst case scenario, if both Israel and Hizzibo (sic) were both terrorist organisations, which one would I rather have, and which would be less of a direct threat to me and my family. I then pointed out that Israel is a nuclear power, and Hezbollah is not. Therefore if both are terrorist organisations, Israel would present an infinitely greater threat to me and my family than the impotent Hezbollah. If you don't like the answer, blame your question, not the replier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir
Hezbollah and other anti-Israel organisations have actually made direct efforts to avoid targeting Europeans and people from other countries, such as Canada, whom they regard as friends. So when people of our nationalities are killed by one of their bombs, out come the apologies. And a couple of years ago, when a bus predominantly containing Europeans was hijacked, the hijackers apologised and let them go as soon as they could.
In contrast, several UK citizens have been shot by IDF soldiers, and the incidents covered up. Of the two that spring to mind, one was a peace campaigner, whose parents are still trying to get the Israeli government to admit their responsibility for the act. The other was a film director, who was filming a documentary at the time.
http://www.cpj.org/attacks03/mideast03/israel.html
One of those wouldn't be the fringe group that claimed to have kidnapped a palenstine civilian would it?
Nah the two Israeli ones were about a rally/protest and a radio interview, and the British one was about a nice group of brooklyn rabbis visiting the troops at the front to show their support , apperantly the troops were none to enamored by their support , perhaps the soldiers had read some of the writings of the rabbis and their followers on their website/forum where they describe the IDF as weak limp wristed pussies who should get out and hand over their weapons to real Jews .
Its very tempting to provide a link , but I think that would break forum rules ,
So for those that want to search for themselves visit the forum of the NY based terrorist group that is a proscribed organisation in both Israel and the US , Alternatively visit the forum of the banned Israeli party or its terrorist offshoot , you can get lots of crazy people there , and they ain't exactly Muslim .
An interesting group that seems not have existed until just recently.
Which one is that Red ? there have been so many splits these past couple of years its geting hard to keep up with them all . You could say they are just like the Palestinians with their hodge potch of ever changing ,dissapearing renaming and re-emerging groups .
The middle-east , dontyajustluvit:wall: :help: :shrug: :skull: :coffeenews:
They have probably changed their name again but here is the link to the story I was refering to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=11749
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Originally Posted by linked article
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
It's very clear to me that just about every group of people under the sun has a radical. I'm starting to understand though that there are those here who would rather point a finger at somebody else and call them ignorant than actually try to process their remark and offer a non-inflamatory responce.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Not in Iran.. Since manufacturing as you mentioned it is from the making of components to their assemble.Quote:
And as before this is not correct. If the engine components are made in Iran, but the missile is assembled in Lebanon - the manufacturing process occured where?
The violence of one justifies the violence of each other, as long as it is all between those two. I'm cool with Israel's retaltiation, but not cool with all this destruction it is making against the parties that didn't attack them.Quote:
So Isreal is justified in responding to Hezbollah's attack using the same logic as presented here. You can not have justification of violence both ways.
You started the game, and I had to play along.Quote:
Again getting warm - now apply this comment to your emotional appeal postions.
Seems a bit unfair..Quote:
Haven't you figured it out yet. The Israeli-Palenstine, Israeli-Arab, Israili -Hezbollah are all so confused and convoluted (SP) that there is no clear stance other then to find both sides in the wrong because they all want to destory each other.
No I'm not, and I haven't.Quote:
Read what is written - the answer is self evident. The base is from what is lawful and what is not lawful. Are you attempting to argue that there is no portion of the palenstine prisoners being held that were caught engaging in criminal activity.
You said "Israeli actions are as disgusting as Hezbullah's".. Then, you say the damage degree is more for Israel.. SO, you think that how much damage does an act result in doesn't link to it's disgust?Quote:
Nice try again - but emotional appeal is its own refutation. You should pay better attention to what is written. Here try reading the statement again and pay attention to these two lines.
After all, when the sun is set and the moon is awake, we can't authenicate any info we get. "War is a trick", "War is a lie".. All these arguments may afterall be built on false info, no matter how many sources you check.. The two who know the most about what's going on are the 2 generals on each side, and each one of those knows the least about the other side anyway..Quote:
Selective input of information is indeed the fault of the person who does not delve into the issue. Again you have demonstrated that emotional appeal is its own refutation. You should read the Thomas Jefferson quote in my signature, it applies to the visual media of today even more so then the written media of Thomas Jefferson's time.
Nah I didn't.Quote:
The orginial statement was an emotional appeal, to demonstrate that the type of arguement is its own refutation. It seems that you did not read the paragraph in its entirity.
To prevent such hits, release the captives. And if not; after taking the hit, the best course of action was to deal a trade.. You pick the one suits you best.Quote:
are you attempting to suggest that Israel should just sit and take the hits?
I said I didn't "hear" the info about the "diversion" attack anywhere on the TV. You accused me of only believing what "pro-Hezbullah" channels say. And since I watch all the arabian channels and believe them, I suppose they are all "pro-Hezbullah".. Where are you trying to get to here?Quote:
Leaping to false conclusions, hiding it behind a question does not change what was written. Read the statement again and place it in the context of your statement in which it was in response to.
One sollution for the best would be to give up all cards.. (Captives from Israel, captives from Lebanon) Both people helping each other in the repairs and opening the borders on each other.. (AI, Muslims are allowed into Al-Quds/Jerusalem, Palestinians get to have some electricity, some peace, some finanace, etc..)
Israel already has what it needs anyway.. Great finance, millitary and geographical position..
You might want to research some - evidence in the intelligence community points to manufacturing of parts by Iran and others. Shipped to Syria and then transported to Lebanon for assembly. This information is available on the web in many forms.Quote:
Originally Posted by x-dANGEr
Then you must also direct that anger at Hezbollah. THe Lebanese are caught in the middle.Quote:
The violence of one justifies the violence of each other, as long as it is all between those two. I'm cool with Israel's retaltiation, but not cool with all this destruction it is making against the parties that didn't attack them.
Actually you started the game with the emotional appeal arguements. Emotional appeal is its own refutation.Quote:
You started the game, and I had to play along.
All one has to do is look at history. Neither side is innocent in wanting the destruction of the other side. Its been the one consistent theme throughout all the conflicts involving Israel and others.Quote:
Seems a bit unfair..
GoodQuote:
No I'm not, and I haven't.
The degree of damage does not influence if I am disgusted more at Hezbollah or Israel. Both are wrong in their actions in my opinion so I am equally disgusted with both.Quote:
You said "Israeli actions are as disgusting as Hezbullah's".. Then, you say the damage degree is more for Israel.. SO, you think that how much damage does an act result in doesn't link to it's disgust?
This view is wrong in my opinion - it does not allow for the and individuals ability to check information by reviewing multiple sources from both sides looking for the facts contained in both, and reach a valid conclusion on what the facts really are. If your only willing to review information from one source, you fall into the trap of being feed information to meet the agenda's or baised views of that source. Multiple sources from different perspectives is the key.Quote:
After all, when the sun is set and the moon is awake, we can't authenicate any info we get. "War is a trick", "War is a lie".. All these arguments may afterall be built on false info, no matter how many sources you check.. The two who know the most about what's going on are the 2 generals on each side, and each one of those knows the least about the other side anyway..
the best course of action would of been for Hezbollah to complie with the United Nations Resolution for disarming the militias and for Lebanon to have attempted to enforce the security zone as stated in that same resolution.Quote:
To prevent such hits, release the captives. And if not; after taking the hit, the best course of action was to deal a trade.. You pick the one suits you best.
This would of insured that Israel would have had to release those captives from Lebanon.
However without Hezbollah disarming and Lebanon providing the required security zone the status of the area has not changed since the initial withdraw of Israel troops from South Lebanon. Hezbollah has not honored the conditions of the United Nations resolution - and neither has Israel. Both are still equally guilty in destroying Lebanon's peace.
Again leaping to false conclusions. Review what was written once again.Quote:
I said I didn't "hear" the info about the "diversion" attack anywhere on the TV. You accused me of only believing what "pro-Hezbullah" channels say. And since I watch all the arabian channels and believe them, I suppose they are all "pro-Hezbullah".. Where are you trying to get to here?
Ask yourself this question. Why should Israel grant open entry to any part of Israel to those who advocate its destruction as a state? Then ask yourself this one, Will the Palenstine people live side by side with the Israeli state?Quote:
One sollution for the best would be to give up all cards.. (Captives from Israel, captives from Lebanon) Both people helping each other in the repairs and opening the borders on each other.. (AI, Muslims are allowed into Al-Quds/Jerusalem, Palestinians get to have some electricity, some peace, some finanace, etc..)
and told over and over again by certain states and groups that until its destroyed there will be no peace. So it seems Israel does not have what it needs. Peace, and security in the knowledge that its neighbors do not want its destructions. Now Israel is not helping itself with this issue either.Quote:
Israel already has what it needs anyway.. Great finance, millitary and geographical position..
I'm starting to understand though that there are those here who would rather point a finger at somebody else and call them ignorant than actually try to process their remark and offer a non-inflamatory responce.
My response was not inflamatory , if you consider being told that you are wrong inflamatory then you are a very very over sensitive creature , which would be a strange trait for someone who appears to advocate genocide as a solution .
In your initial psot you give a nice preamble ....I can offer only my opinion as, what I perceive to be, a clear thinking, logical individual.
....
Yet you go on to show that your opinions in this matter are not logical or clearly thought out , so perhaps it is your perception that is at fault .
When faults in your clear thinking are pointed out you accuse others of ignorance , then go on to show that you are completely ignorant of facts about the issue on which you chose to write about .
edit to add for clarity .....I don't see rabbis pledging in the streets that all jews should cross the border and bomb palestinians, that does not happen.
............It's very clear to me that just about every group of people under the sun has a radical.
So which is it ? do you clearly percieve the contradiction there ?
Redleg , don't you think that groups chosen name is a bit of an insult to the family of the kidnapped soldier , considering the stance they (the family) have taken (despite widespread criticism in Israel) since he was taken .
Oh I think its more then an insult toward the family and the soldier. It also shows how absurd the extremists on both sides have become.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
It also demonstrates why both sides of the conflict have become just as guilty of using senseless violence and provocation to attempt to bring about the destruction of the other side.
Rather pathic of them.
Double Post
I think Hezbullah, Lebanon, Hamas and Palestine all have little trust and faith in Israel.. Any idea why?Quote:
the best course of action would of been for Hezbollah to complie with the United Nations Resolution for disarming the militias and for Lebanon to have attempted to enforce the security zone as stated in that same resolution.
So you feel the same disgust for one who slapped another person, and who killed another person? (Since they both used violence)Quote:
The degree of damage does not influence if I am disgusted more at Hezbollah or Israel. Both are wrong in their actions in my opinion so I am equally disgusted with both.
It is right. As, as long as you're not in the scene, many things can be wrong, understood wrong, interepted wrong, etc..Quote:
This view is wrong in my opinion - it does not allow for the and individuals ability to check information by reviewing multiple sources from both sides looking for the facts contained in both, and reach a valid conclusion on what the facts really are. If your only willing to review information from one source, you fall into the trap of being feed information to meet the agenda's or baised views of that source. Multiple sources from different perspectives is the key.
I did and it matched what I said.Quote:
Again leaping to false conclusions. Review what was written once again.
Answering the first question: There should be only few.. If Israel does all that, people will want peace, and the image of Israel will go a lot better.. Even, if any extermist groups remain on the scene, the Palestinian people would help Israel to remove them..Quote:
Ask yourself this question. Why should Israel grant open entry to any part of Israel to those who advocate its destruction as a state? Then ask yourself this one, Will the Palenstine people live side by side with the Israeli state?
The second one: I can't see why not if access to all lands is given from both sides, and Jerusalem be accesible from Palestinians as well, and at the end, if Israel (And the other countries) helps re-build the huge destruction it has made..
Then I think Israel's politics are stupid, and the acts of a 5 years old are better.. Israel is fighting an ideological war with military arms.. Intelligent? Nah.. If Israel really wants peace, it can as I said dis-arm all the extremist groups of their support by being on the people's good side.Quote:
and told over and over again by certain states and groups that until its destroyed there will be no peace. So it seems Israel does not have what it needs. Peace, and security in the knowledge that its neighbors do not want its destructions. Now Israel is not helping itself with this issue either.
For all except Lebanon - probably for the same reason Israel distrusts them. Hamas,the Palestine Authority, and Hezbollah have demonstrated time and time again that they also can not be trusted.Quote:
Originally Posted by x-dANGEr
Incorrect comparision - since both sides are using the sam type of violence - death.Quote:
So you feel the same disgust for one who slapped another person, and who killed another person? (Since they both used violence)
I have been on the scene of several different violent confrontations - and at the scene your ability to judge information is even more restricted, in fact your statement here applies more to those on the ground then it does to use sitting in the grandstands watching the events unfold.Quote:
It is right. As, as long as you're not in the scene, many things can be wrong, understood wrong, interepted wrong, etc..
Again your not sitting in Palenstine or Lebanon right now - so your ability to gather information is more then that of the person sitting in the middle of the violence.
Then you are stuck in a paridigm of your own making. I can not prevent you from having baised views and seeing what you wish to see, But your statement here indicates that your preception is clouded.Quote:
I did and it matched what I said.
This can not happen while a group in power in Palenstine continues to call for the destruction of the Israeli state. So Israel is in a catch 22 postion - damn if they do and damn if they don't.Quote:
Answering the first question: There should be only few.. If Israel does all that, people will want peace, and the image of Israel will go a lot better.. Even, if any extermist groups remain on the scene, the Palestinian people would help Israel to remove them..
Again review the manifesto of the Palenstine group that is in power in the Palenstine Authority. This group has made some overtures to removing the call for the destruction of the state of Israel from their manifesto - but the recent actions of the violent armed wing of Hammas demonstrate something else entirely. Will the Palenstine people be willing to apologize to Israel for supporting Hamas and other terror groups suicide bombings of innocent children and women? The Palenstine people are not innocent as a group in this conflict either. Then since you want to mention other countries - there are many Arab countries that also should help rebuild the huge destruction that it has helped cause....Quote:
The second one: I can't see why not if access to all lands is given from both sides, and Jerusalem be accesible from Palestinians as well, and at the end, if Israel (And the other countries) helps re-build the huge destruction it has made..
Now this same arguement can be applied to Hezbollah for the destruction it has helped cause in Lebanon by its childish actions.
The exact same thing should be said of Hamas, the PLO, Hezbollah, and every Palenstine extremist group out there.Quote:
Then I think Israel's politics are stupid, and the acts of a 5 years old are better.. Israel is fighting an ideological war with military arms.. Intelligent? Nah.. If Israel really wants peace, it can as I said dis-arm all the extremist groups of their support by being on the people's good side.
Again both sides in this conflict are equally responsible for carrying out the violence and destruction - especially for what is going on in Lebanon right now.
So, killing 1 man is as disgusting as killing 100000000 men?Quote:
Incorrect comparision - since both sides are using the sam type of violence - death.
Stop quibbling and read:Quote:
Then you are stuck in a paridigm of your own making. I can not prevent you from having baised views and seeing what you wish to see, But your statement here indicates that your preception is clouded.
As you can see from above, I was talking about channels, you changed the subject into sites.. ?!Quote:
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Do you deny the fact that a missile strike on civilian targets was done concurrent with the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers as a diversion?
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Well, every news channel here hasn't mentioned a thing about it. So, I dont believe it, but still don't deny it.
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So unless a pro-Hezbollah site states that Hezbollah launced a diversionary attack at civilian targets it can not be true? Hmm and who used the term propaganda in another thread first?
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So you state all arabian channels are pro-Hezbullah?
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Leaping to false conclusions, hiding it behind a question does not change what was written. Read the statement again and place it in the context of your statement in which it was in response to.
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I said I didn't "hear" the info about the "diversion" attack anywhere on the TV. You accused me of only believing what "pro-Hezbullah" channels say. And since I watch all the arabian channels and believe them, I suppose they are all "pro-Hezbullah".. Where are you trying to get to here?
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Again leaping to false conclusions. Review what was written once again.
Quote:
I did and it matched what I said
Quote:
Then you are stuck in a paridigm of your own making. I can not prevent you from having baised views and seeing what you wish to see, But your statement here indicates that your preception is clouded.
I'm not sure about the second part of your sentence, but I'm sure that Israel can afford to free all the captives.. If anything goes wrong then, it simply can re-capture them.Quote:
For all except Lebanon - probably for the same reason Israel distrusts them. Hamas,the Palestine Authority, and Hezbollah have demonstrated time and time again that they also can not be trusted.
They won't keep on wanting that if Israel gives all that..Quote:
This can not happen while a group in power in Palenstine continues to call for the destruction of the Israeli state. So Israel is in a catch 22 postion - damn if they do and damn if they don't.
Maybe you should ask: "Will the Israeli people be willing to apologize to Palestine for the supprt of the "bomb" bombers Israel has done?"Quote:
Again review the manifesto of the Palenstine group that is in power in the Palenstine Authority. This group has made some overtures to removing the call for the destruction of the state of Israel from their manifesto - but the recent actions of the violent armed wing of Hammas demonstrate something else entirely. Will the Palenstine people be willing to apologize to Israel for supporting Hamas and other terror groups suicide bombings of innocent children and women? The Palenstine people are not innocent as a group in this conflict either. Then since you want to mention other countries - there are many Arab countries that also should help rebuild the huge destruction that it has helped cause....
Here, in that last quote you show contrary to yourself.. You think that both of them are at fault, but you say 1 side should apologize (The weaker one BTW) and the other not?!
I can't udnerstand how would Hamas or Hezbullah do that?!Quote:
The exact same thing should be said of Hamas, the PLO, Hezbollah, and every Palenstine extremist group out there.
The act of violent death is enough rather it be one or 10,000,000. The degree is only in amount, the evil is in the deed.Quote:
Originally Posted by x-dANGEr
Again you need to read - did I state all Arab news sites are pro-Hezbollah? Those are your words not mine. You might want to check out what quibble means. Nice try though...Quote:
Stop quibbling and read:
Channels and news sites are the same in the aspect that it provides news media. If you assumed that they mean different things then what I stated then that is your issue not mine. Again did I state specifically that all arab channells are pro-hezbollah? It seems you are having a problem looking outside of your own baised paridigm.Quote:
As you can see from above, I was talking about channels, you changed the subject into sites.. ?!
So are you now attempting to deny the violence done against Israel by Hamas and Hezabollah.... It seems Hezbollah and Hamas are caught in the same moral and ethical problem that Israel is caught in.Quote:
I'm not sure about the second part of your sentence, but I'm sure that Israel can afford to free all the captives.. If anything goes wrong then, it simply can re-capture them.They won't keep on wanting that if Israel gives all that..
I don't support Israel's actions - so no need for me to ask myself that question. However you continue to attempt to justify the violence of Hamas and Hezbollah.Quote:
Maybe you should ask: "Will the Israeli people be willing to apologize to Palestine for the supprt of the "bomb" bombers Israel has done?"
You failed to understand the statement - you should read it again. Your claim was that Israel should apologize - the converse is that Hamas and Hezbollah has some apologies of their own to state.Quote:
Here, in that last quote you show contrary to yourself.. You think that both of them are at fault, but you say 1 side should apologize (The weaker one BTW) and the other not?!
Then you are not willing to look outside of the paridigm that you have established for the Middle-east as it relates to Israel. And hince that is the crux of your issue. I find fault with both equally because both are doing violence against each other. In fact both Hamas and Hezbollah have political rethoric that calls for the destruction of Israel, and Israel conducts violence against both. Its a vicious little circle continued by both sides equally.Quote:
I can't udnerstand how would Hamas or Hezbullah do that?!
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Originally Posted by Redleg
I would like to interrupt the dialogue for a moment to express my support and admiration for your concise and eloquent position.
If only the combatants could understand. :bow:
Thanks -Quote:
Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
I didn't state that Israel should apologize, check again.Quote:
You failed to understand the statement - you should read it again. Your claim was that Israel should apologize - the converse is that Hamas and Hezbollah has some apologies of their own to state.
You didn't state so specifically, but saying that I only believe news when they are on pro-Hezbullah channels, and sicne I watch all arabic news channels and believe all what goes in them, you simply say that all the news channels I watch and believe is pro-Hezbullah.Quote:
Channels and news sites are the same in the aspect that it provides news media. If you assumed that they mean different things then what I stated then that is your issue not mine. Again did I state specifically that all arab channells are pro-hezbollah? It seems you are having a problem looking outside of your own baised paridigm.
It is like saying: All what you play is crap, and since I play like all the Unreal Tournament colletction, you're simply saying that all the UT collection is crap.
That's not what the world is based on I see.Quote:
The act of violent death is enough rather it be one or 10,000,000. The degree is only in amount, the evil is in the deed.
I'm willing to, outside the so-called ..Quote:
Then you are not willing to look outside of the paridigm that you have established for the Middle-east as it relates to Israel. And hince that is the crux of your issue. I find fault with both equally because both are doing violence against each other. In fact both Hamas and Hezbollah have political rethoric that calls for the destruction of Israel, and Israel conducts violence against both. Its a vicious little circle continued by both sides equally.
You know how, then tell me please.
Some 420 Lebanese have been killed, of which some 30 weren't civilians. 51 Israelis have died, of which 18 were civilians.
Once more, makes the line between terror and state a little more blurry.
Then I made an incorrect assumption based upon the course of the discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by x-dANGEr
Ah so you attempted to generalize a statement to mean something else. It seem I was guilty of that in the previsous question about apologize, and I am even willing to state so without quibbling my way out of it.Quote:
You didn't state so specifically, but saying that I only believe news when they are on pro-Hezbullah channels, and sicne I watch all arabic news channels and believe all what goes in them, you simply say that all the news channels I watch and believe is pro-Hezbullah.
The generalization of all did you in here. I happen to read a lot of arab english based media - but there is no way I can read them all. Then again there is no way you play all of the characters either now is there....Quote:
It is like saying: All what you play is crap, and since I play like all the Unreal Tournament colletction, you're simply saying that all the UT collection is crap.
Then I would suggest that you go and clean up the dead of your enemy. It changes the world view of death quickly. A suggestion that should be given to all combatants in this conflict. When you as a soldier have to recover the dead women and children of your enemy - it becomes very difficult to see them as less then human.Quote:
That's not what the world is based on I see.
It primarily calls for the willingness to change. In this instance it requires one to activily look for material and information from outside their previous channells, and to give it an honest evaluation.Quote:
I'm willing to, outside the so-called ..
You know how, then tell me please.
Sadly neither Israel, Hezbollah, nor Hamas have demonstrated that willingness to change yet either.
Which is why we are still having this argument.. ~:(
I appriciate your straight forward attidue and will promise to try and pay you back with the same.
Honestly, I'm thinking this "war" is turning out good now.. Israel is learning that she can't just invade a country and expect nothing back..
Yes, a lot of Lebanese are killed, and the country is kinda ruined.. Call me a maniac, but I got used to this bloodshed.. ~:(
No problemQuote:
Originally Posted by x-dANGEr
And what is Hezbollah learning from this particlur episode?Quote:
Honestly, I'm thinking this "war" is turning out good now.. Israel is learning that she can't just invade a country and expect nothing back..
Because if Hezbollah does not learn a painful lesson from this - the violence will only continue.
Hince your porblem and that of those who advocate bloodshed to drive the state of Israel into the sea. It did not work in 1948, and it has not worked in any of the wars since then.Quote:
Yes, a lot of Lebanese are killed, and the country is kinda ruined.. Call me a maniac, but I got used to this bloodshed.. ~:(
What Hezbullah learnt? Nothing.. I guess so, at least.
You think Israel likes invading countries?Quote:
Honestly, I'm thinking this "war" is turning out good now.. Israel is learning that she can't just invade a country and expect nothing back..
Then tell those idiots Hizbollah to stop shelling Israeli territory and kidnapping soldiers then perhaps Israel won't resort to reckless and destructive disproportionate responses.
Its the fault of the Arab states who used the Israeli - Palestinian conflict to boost their own image and popularity in their own states by keeping Palestinian deliberately poor - which became a breeding ground for extremism. If only they followed the example of Jordan - called COMMON SENSE.
I think "Israel loves invading countries" would be a better description.Quote:
You think Israel likes invading countries?
It is funny you use the word "kidnap", they are soldiers, and there wasn't any peace treaty between Hezbullah and Israel (Israeli army did cross the borders ocassionaly, leading into your assumpted "shellings"), I think it should be called capture.Quote:
Then tell those idiots Hizbollah to stop shelling Israeli territory and kidnapping soldiers then perhaps Israel won't resort to reckless and destructive disproportionate responses.
You think the Arabic countries' images are good? You think they are popular amongst their people? Gah.. Think again!Quote:
Its the fault of the Arab states who used the Israeli - Palestinian conflict to boost their own image and popularity in their own states by keeping Palestinian deliberately poor - which became a breeding ground for extremism. If only they followed the example of Jordan - called COMMON SENSE.
Oh well the IDF did another nice one in Qana . A lovely pile of dismembered children to add to the tally .
Still at least they were only in their homes this time and not sheltering in a UN compound , so there is some improvement .
Now the official line is that they work on the assumption that there are no civilians there , after all they did give a warning so anyone left in the village must be a terrorist right .
Yet they also say that they estimate 20% of the population are unable to evacuate (though the UN says up to 46%)
So which is it , 1 in 5 of the population are still there , or none of the population apart from terrorists are still there ?
Or can anyone explain the justification of blowing up an apartment block based on an assumption ?
Birth pangs of a new middle east!!!!!!!Bollox:furious3:
Is it any wonder that the Lebanese government have told Condi to go take a flying **** this morning .