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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by TosaInu
I think with my VI copy (mind you, I been using it since December 04), I think it is DX 9.0C or something... Or mabye it a older version..
It causes the lag in the SW Beta 8 Games I'm always in, thus is why I get drop, and I get those error messages (posted one pic of one of them eariler I think), dunno why I get them. I got a 256MB Radeon X1300 card ( I think) and can't find the right drivers for it (unless I downloaded them months ago, cause I remember I downloaded something).
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
With my ATI 9800 Pro, I get very bad lag only in multiplayer games larger than 1v1 if I use a new video driver. I have to use the Catalyst 4.6 driver which is about 3 years old. Unfortuntely, you can't use that video driver with your ATI X1300.
Try lowering your AGP memory to 16 MB in the game options. That may have been suggested before, and you've already done it.
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
I think with my VI copy (mind you, I been using it since December 04), I think it is DX 9.0C or something... Or mabye it a older version..
Hello {BHC}KingWarman888,
The DX that was shipped with VI, was DX 9.0a or b. It's one that caused some trouble iirc. Install the DX 9.0C Dec 06 revision (first link). It will surely work. Are you sure you still use that old DX from 04? Most modern games update your DX or they won't play. I recall BF wants a more updated DX than even the first DX 9.0 c.
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puzz3D
With my ATI 9800 Pro, I get very bad lag only in multiplayer games larger than 1v1 if I use a new video driver. I have to use the Catalyst 4.6 driver which is about 3 years old. Unfortuntely, you can't use that video driver with your ATI X1300.
Try lowering your AGP memory to 16 MB in the game options. That may have been suggested before, and you've already done it.
Screen Reslouitn I did, but not my VI AGP...... Intersting Puzz! I'm on VI now, I do a test 1v1 or 2v2 and see...:yes:
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Re: Samurai Wars Unit vs Unit Chart
Hi Guys,
Can anyone tell me where the tech tree is for Sam Wars, thanks.
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Hello Flaxmac,
I've moved your post here because it was OT in the other thread.
We don't have a dedicated techtree for Samurai Warlordsbut our techtree is very similar to the Shogun one, which can be downloaded from this site.
You can access all downloads via the "Files" link at the top of this forum.
Here's a direct link to the STW section:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=82292
Download "officialtechtree.zip" for Shogun.
That should tell you the basics.
R'as
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
at this time there is still some polish to add to the tech tree ,
once that is done perhaps we'll make a proper neat tech tree.
I am almost set back up here, once i am i'll finalise the hero names lists
cheers
B
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Any news on the Mongol front yet?
.....Orda
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
may return this SUnday to Beta 8 (or 5?....) if school permits.. BF2 is killing me.
you guys making a mongol army??
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Hello {BHC}KingWarman888,
STW MI had Mongol units. The plan from years back was that these may be added too.
It depends a bit I think. Time and really wanting to add it, but also whether the storage of units works (beta5 differs from beta8). It may be responsible for sync problems, maybe not.
Balancing the Mongols was hard in MI, for various reasons. It will be nice to give it another go with the VI stats. In STW there were only 2 bow slots. That's not enough really: footarchers, mounted Japanese and Mongol archers. The Mongol archers are very different from the other two.
The Mongol army is also supposed to be totally different from the Japanese. The Japanese army has strong infantry and strong cavalry. The Mongols have stronger cavalry and weak infantry (Korean forced to fight -> unwillingly).
Unfortunately the honorsellback allows to buy lots of cheap H0 mongol cavalry and mostly forget about buying infantry, the cavalry already performs great and will become even better during the battle due to battlefieldupgrades. So, instead of having a 40/60 cav/inf Mongol army where the more powerful cav and less powerful infantry balances the Japanese army, you end up with a more powerful Mongol mostly cav army. Naturally you couldn't cripple the Mongol cav too much.
VI should make it possible to get it right.
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
The gameplay changes if the Mongols are introduced with better cav but weaker inf. The Japanese are limited to playing defensively in every battle because their cav is beaten by the Mongol cav. The Japanese have to rely on their inf, but after the ranged units have finished skirmishing, the Japanese inf cannot catch the Mongol cav, so they have to wait for the Mongols to attack them. The Japanese also cannot use cav to protect their ranged units, so they are at a disadvantage when skirmishing. Since the YS is the only Japanese threat to the Mongol cav, all the Mongols need is a single sword inf unit that can beat it, and the Japanese become completely nullified tactically. Japanese sword units will be easily defeated by the Mongol cav. Japanese archers and guns will be either outranged or equal in range to Mongol archers.
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
In the old 103 mod, the exact opposite was achieved, the Mongols were pitifully weak. I did a little tweaking with the stats to the point where it was possible to win with either a Mongol or Japanese army. Given that VI has more options, it should be achievable
.....Orda
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orda Khan
In the old 103 mod, the exact opposite was achieved, the Mongols were pitifully weak. I did a little tweaking with the stats to the point where it was possible to win with either a Mongol or Japanese army. Given that VI has more options, it should be achievable
.....Orda
Hello Orda,
The Mongol was very strong in 1.0 and 1.01. They were supposed to be fine in 1.02. And yes, they were weaker, but the battlefieldupgrades and honor sellback were still a problem. Some still considered them too strong.
103 mod made them even weaker, too weak perhaps. You had to work very hard for a win, quite the opposite from vanilla. The music is still great :)
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orda Khan
In the old 103 mod, the exact opposite was achieved, the Mongols were pitifully weak. I did a little tweaking with the stats to the point where it was possible to win with either a Mongol or Japanese army. Given that VI has more options, it should be achievable.
It can be done, but the Japanese will have to play defensively in every battle.
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orda Khan
Any news on the Mongol front yet?
.....Orda
No, I'm sorry Orda. barocca and I are both pretty busy.
It's still planned, though. (not much comfort probably?)
R'as
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puzz3D
It can be done, but the Japanese will have to play defensively in every battle.
Hello Yuuki,
Isn't that typical and supposed to be how it should?
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by TosaInu
103 mod made them even weaker, too weak perhaps. You had to work very hard for a win, quite the opposite from vanilla. The music is still great :)
Against a player of equal skill it was all but impossible to win. I agree about the music, it really created the mood. I had that music on my VI...Probably the best of the battlefield music scores.
I can't recall the exact changes I made but they were based on Korean Guardsman/Naginata, Korean Spearman/Yari Samurai. The MHC and JHC were same and MLC were slightly better than JCA to account for the Mongol lack of light spear cav and (worst part of MI) lack of archers. The Korean Skirmishers evened out the deficit between the KS and YS but were pretty helpless in melee.
The final stats worked very well in the tests I ran and it was possible to win with both factions, the Japanese certainly did not need to play defensively. If the HA units could fire on the move then this would be different of course but backing up JCA with YC was a viable tactic and with Nodachi, with no real counter other than cav made for some very good battles
......Orda
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
If MHC = JHC, then you could make a stat which balanced Mongol/Japanese offensive/defensive chances. You couldn't make MHC = JHC in MI because the MHC were much more expensive than the JHC, and there was no way to change unit costs. In Samurai Wars, Mongols would get some additional cav types and archer types, and the MLC could be as fast or almost as fast as JYC. They had a javelin unit in MI which could be retained. While their best inf would be worse than the Japanese best inf, their low end inf units could be better to compensate. There is a space in the middle of the combat range of the Japanese inf units between no-dachi and naginata which would allow for that.
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puzz3D
If MHC = JHC, then you could make a stat which balanced Mongol/Japanese offensive/defensive chances. You couldn't make MHC = JHC in MI because the MHC were much more expensive than the JHC, and there was no way to change unit costs.
You can make a clone where both armies have the same stats but different sprites. And you can try to make two different types of armies. The Mongol army was supposed to have stronger cavalry and weaker infantry. The idea was that the Mongols purchased certain amounts of cavalry and certain amounts of infantry so that the combined forces would equal the Japanese army in strenght. The second was that it should still be quite a challenge for the Japanese to beat the Mongols. A steppe like map and the right deployment favours the Mongols indeed (isn't that authentic for a mounted army?).
My tactic of choice is 50% infantry and 50% cavalry. The cavalry consists of 50% heavy (MHC) and 50% light (MLC).
The brittle infantry is deployed deep south and the MHC (one of them is general) is deployed behind them.
The MLC is split in two groups and setup North-West and North-East. The forward position allows me to see the opposing forces and the MLC will harass where possible. Harassment is missile attack, charges, tiring Japanese cavalry, anything. It doesn't matter much what happens. That's the RSI stage of the battle.
When the Japanese decide to stand, the Korean infantry/MHC will slowly close in at some point (usually when the MLC can't really harass anymore) and the spearthrowing skirmishers will erase some sprites. The rest of the infantry will make contact and the MHC will move to either the right and/or left, then behind the opposing army and charge. Surviving MLC will capture routed units.
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puzz3D
It can be done, but the Japanese will have to play defensively in every battle.
Yea, but provides more of a challage.
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
Yea, but provides more of a challage.
No it doesn't. The Japanese will have a stategic gameplay limited to camping with corner camping providing the best result. The Mongol cav has nearly complete freedom of movement since it cannot be challenged by the Japanese cav. The Japanese player might as well take no cavalry.
A gameplay where attacking and defending chances are balanced provides the most challenge because the initiative can shift back and forth several times during a battles as a result of relatively small mistakes.
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puzz3D
No it doesn't. The Japanese will have a stategic gameplay limited to camping with corner camping providing the best result. The Mongol cav has nearly complete freedom of movement since it cannot be challenged by the Japanese cav. The Japanese player might as well take no cavalry.
A gameplay where attacking and defending chances are balanced provides the most challenge because the initiative can shift back and forth several times during a battles as a result of relatively small mistakes.
Mongol armies aren't invinable. Just because you would be taking a all horse army doesn't mean you run off and camp in a corner, get kill faster that way.
Just like someone who gets all Port Teppos, compared to his enemey who gets all Jap Teppo. His Jap Teppos have longer range, and can't be challaged but the guy's Ports unless they in close range. So does that mean he just doesn't get the cheaper Port teppos anymore Puzz or does he just corner camp?
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Hello,
It is supposed to be difficult for the Japanese to defeat the Mongol army. I think it's authentic for a strong cav army to have the cards (especially when the terrain is right).
I don't think cornercamping is the only stategy for the Japanese, not the best even. What is important is to keep the units close together (the highly mobile MC will quickly eliminate lone units). To counter above tactic, I'ld move up to the Mongol inf/MHC army and engage that before the MLC weared me out.
Spears and lsam would be at least 50% of the army. You need some cav (not to fight duals with MC right on, but to flank, deal the final blow and chase) and HTH infantry too (such as nods. ni will work too, but their low speed defeats the other goal: reach the Mongol army in time. You'ld probably need wm, it's the right period, odd they are removed).
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by TosaInu
To counter above tactic, I'd move up to the Mongol inf/MHC army and engage that before the MLC weared me out.
That didn't work in STW/MI, and it won't work in SW either. The Mongol ranged units will inflict heavy losses on the Japanese infantry as they advance. Once engaged, the Mongol cav will backstab the engaged Japanese units.
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
Mongol armies aren't invinable.
Right if the Japanese play defensively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
Just because you would be taking a all horse army doesn't mean you run off and camp in a corner, get kill faster that way.
I said no cav not all cav. You won't get killed faster in a corner because there are no teppos in the Mongol era.
Quote:
Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
Just like someone who gets all Port Teppos, compared to his enemey who gets all Jap Teppo. His Jap Teppos have longer range, and can't be challaged but the guy's Ports unless they in close range. So does that mean he just doesn't get the cheaper Port teppos anymore Puzz or does he just corner camp?
Portuguese teppo are the same range as Japanese teppo. If you give the Mongols longer ranged archers, then camping won't work of the Japanese. All they will have left for a strategy is an infantry rush.
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puzz3D
That didn't work in STW/MI, and it won't work in SW either. The Mongol ranged units will inflict heavy losses on the Japanese infantry as they advance. Once engaged, the Mongol cav will backstab the engaged Japanese units.
But when the Japanese camp, the MLC will have time to release all their arrows and they'll also charge when possible.
I didn't say it's easy, but when you manage to reach the Mongols while keeping your units together, so deny the MLC effective charges, you'll end up with more surviving units (because the MLC haven't released all the arrows yet) and you have a bigger chance to defeat the inf/MHC.
Not that I become speechless, but camping Japanese, that's what I hope for when playing.
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by TosaInu
But when the Japanese camp, the MLC will have time to release all their arrows and they'll also charge when possible.
The Japanese archers can shoot back when not moving, and foot archers beat mounted archers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TosaInu
I didn't say it's easy, but when you manage to reach the Mongols while keeping your units together, so deny the MLC effective charges, you'll end up with more surviving units (because the MLC haven't released all the arrows yet) and you have a bigger chance to defeat the inf/MHC.
If you manage to reach the Mongols because the Japanese have no speed advantage.
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puzz3D
Right if the Japanese play defensively.
I said no cav not all cav. You won't get killed faster in a corner because there are no teppos in the Mongol era.
Portuguese teppo are the same range as Japanese teppo. If you give the Mongols longer ranged archers, then camping won't work of the Japanese. All they will have left for a strategy is an infantry rush.
Really? from what I seen, Japanese teppos always shoot my Portuguse guys from a longer distance. Learn something new today.
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
I don't know what stats you are referring to with your Mongol/Japanese discussion and neither v1.02 nor Mod 103 were particularly balanced.
As I stated above, I altered the 103 Mongol stats to a point where your arguments are not valid. The Japanese were quite capable of cav manoeuvres, JCA were not completely overpowered by MLC, only in melee and a covering YC could easily protect them. The Japanese have SA with greater range than KSk and better accuracy than MLC. KG and NI were about equal but YS would still defeat KS. That still leaves Nodachi that really had to be taken out by cav or javelins. I believe my MHC only had superiority over JHC because they were slightly faster, melee etc was the same. Considering the much lower cost, unit for unit, the Mongols were compelled to field significant infantry units, they simply could not afford too many expensive cav.
Since Toda made a Mod version 105 and another that really changed unit sizes and a host of other things, I named mine 107. I was very happy with the MP tests. I wish I still had the stats so you could see for yourselves
.....Orda
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Re: Samurai Warlords beta 8
the 47s played 1.05 Mongol games amongst ourselves often and had great fun. We used 1.05 pretty much exclusively for Mongol battles because we found it to be superior to 1.03 and especially 1.02 in regard to balance between the Japanese and Mongol units.
