Capo de Tutti Capi - II [Concluded]

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Originally Posted by The Stranger

i was being sarcastic omanes...

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*feels exceptionally embarrassed*

TS, where you planning on forming a protection group tonight?

Sunset Day One Selection Tally adjusted to actually be readable.

Have a good night.

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Originally Posted by Elite Ferret

not if I kill you first! Maybe tonight I'll kill all of you then who'll be laughing?

On a serious note I am also suffering internet troubles as players from the Throne Room already know so I may miss out on a few votes as I have no idea when it is going to go down. This is also my first ever mafia game so please go easy on me.

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Well that is a drag. I am afraid Dutch_guy is right though. Nobody knows whom to kill or hang in the first few, confusing rounds. So people generally aim for inexperienced players who don't post. For all they know, the newster may have stopped playing anyway so he won't be missed.

Might I suggest you PM me your role if you are interested in continued participation despite possible internet problems? Then I can vote on your behalf and see to it that nobody mistakes you for an easy picking in your absense. :bow:

so... and sasaki joins the fray...

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Might I suggest you PM me your role if you are interested in continued participation despite possible internet problems? Then I can vote on your behalf and see to it that nobody mistakes you for an easy picking in your absense. :bow:

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I also hear that Fatlington bridge is up for sale at a very reasonable price.

Why the sudden generous offer Louis? Seems kind of like scaremongering, trying to encourage new players like me to join up.....

maybe he is mafia and needs some roles he can use for cover... i say not give him your role...

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Originally Posted by The Stranger

maybe he is mafia and needs some roles he can use for cover... i say not give him your role...

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Mafia wins with secrecy and by divide and conquer. Town wins by sharing information and by joining forces. :smash:

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

I also hear that Fatlington bridge is up for sale at a very reasonable price.

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That would be the Eiffat Tower, to be precise. ~;)


Great place for suicides too...~;p

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Mafia wins with secrecy and by divide and conquer. Town wins by sharing information and by joining forces. :smash:

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Mafia also wins by finding and killing all the detectives and doctors :smash:


I don't think TS's story about asking which director was protected quite adds up, but there are more important things to do.

i wouldnt be so bold about it... if i was planning murder

Sasaki, why didn't you like the extra pressure on pevergreen? After all, his mass pm'ing at the beginnig of the game is at the least odd. He can be sincere, but he can also be a Made looking for wiseguys or a wiseguy trying to create his own family...

The W&F - w&f was thin, but it made him and others talk. It made w&f confirm in the thread that he indeed sent that pm.

Since when are you not in favour of discussion?

And "pever wouldn't post a fake pm at the beginning of the game, because blahblahblah" just leads to WIFOM.

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Originally Posted by Louis6tf

That would be the Eiffat Tower, to be precise.

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https://jimcee.homestead.com/eiffat1.jpg

LoL.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Ko

but there are more important things to do.

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Such as?

Guessing: figuring out who to lynch? Is it usual to start that now? Or best to wait for the Director to direct the effort?

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

Such as?

Guessing: figuring out who to lynch? Is it usual to start that now? Or best to wait for the Director to direct the effort?

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:laugh4:

Unfortunately, in our messed-up little world, a director is hardly required. After all, we have enough posts from newbies being horribly misconstrued, paranoid people going after people with legitimate excuses for being offline, and "capitalization" smoking guns to put forth a solid effort by ourselves.

Note to self: revise above, it sounds too harsh.
:thinking2: :thinking2: :thinking2:

No, we've accumilated more than enough information in this first day to get started without a Director.

Just to clarify, the reason I made such a long post was not even in support of GH. All I was doing was analysing the role of Director in my opinion. It was also so I could be noticed and possibly be taken seriously by all of you experianced mafia players here:clown: .


As to Pevergreen, I see no reason to coordinate with you, especially now that some people have been suspecting you. If I was to tell you who was in a group of mine, and you were turned or betrayed us, the entire town would be screwed.

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Originally Posted by Andres

Sasaki, why didn't you like the extra pressure on pevergreen? After all, his mass pm'ing at the beginnig of the game is at the least odd. He can be sincere, but he can also be a Made looking for wiseguys or a wiseguy trying to create his own family...

The W&F - w&f was thin, but it made him and others talk. It made w&f confirm in the thread that he indeed sent that pm.

Since when are you not in favour of discussion?

And "pever wouldn't post a fake pm at the beginning of the game, because blahblahblah" just leads to WIFOM.

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I had already heard that w&f had said something like that, it's not wifom because wifom involves an ~50-50 choice, the capitalization issue is bad logic and it's never good to start discussion with bad logic, and with a game this big there's no danger of lack of discussion while there is a danger of lack of focus...remember there are 15 mafia to start with. I remember the last thread solid accusations got buried in 10 pages of posting.

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

Such as?

Guessing: figuring out who to lynch? Is it usual to start that now? Or best to wait for the Director to direct the effort?

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Lynching Glenn.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Lynching Glenn.

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Please summarize your case against Glenn, ignoring the fact that he is relatively new to both Mafia and the .Org and seems to use this awkward posting style in all other forums.

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Please summarize your case against Glenn, ignoring the fact that he is relatively new to both Mafia and the .Org and seems to use this awkward posting style in all other forums.

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You kinda defending him, GH.. He really wanted to elect you before...

GH, you probably missed this post

For your convenience:

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Okay, I'm logging off for the night. A couple of quick hits before I go:

- From what I recall, Kommodus sucks as mafia. Putting him in the spotlight might not be such a bad idea.

- The question is now, do I change my vote from myself to Kommodus? After all, one can get hit both ways for this. If I keep my vote on me, I get blasted for not following above logic, people saying I'm scummy, and saying that my impending "well, the logic is sound, but I'd still rather it be me because I'm the only one I can trust" defense is weak.

- On the other hand, considering my last long post ("everybody, vote for yourselves!"), they'd say I'm a flip-flopper and that's scummy. Finally, considering that several people are under fire for selecting me (never mind that Seamus just posted that the initial families get two people they know and I have roughly six votes :rolleyes2:), backing off and voting someone else would also be considered scummy.

Ahh, Capo.

Anyway, I'd rather be hit with the allegations coming from my first choice, so I'm leaving my vote on me right now.

G'night.

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It's the bolded part that bothers me. It sounds awfully defensive for somebody who isn't under pression pressure :inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by Charge

You kinda defending him, GH.. He really wanted to elect you before...

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No, I'm simply defending someone whom I believe is a mistaken lynch target.

Those who have played with me and paid close attention to me in the past know that I've always fought against "newbie lynches" who seem to have just misspoke.

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Originally Posted by GH

Please summarize your case against Glenn, ignoring the fact that he is relatively new to both Mafia and the .Org and seems to use this awkward posting style in all other forums.

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1) Paranoia: He is paranoid about his posts, and edited it to add reason. Mafiosos are more paranoid than townies. His reasoning for selection is also bogus as has been pointed out. Paranoia is a well know scumtell.

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Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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I intend to

Select: GeneralHankerchief

One who I currently trust, and who will be a popular candidate for the axe if he isn't elected to prove his worth.

I am paranoid of what will be thought of everything I write!

So I must edit to say I trust GeneralHankerchief because I believe he would be given a more moderate role this time - instead of a largely evil one such as in previous games.

Don't credit my guess too faithfully..

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2) Backtracking: After the initial accusation of paranoia he backtracks, claiming:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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Sasaki has shown that he is always probing of everyone's statements in all cases, and there are many times he was innocent and many times he was guilty and deceived everyone.
Therefore he is dangerous - yet I do not suspect him of anything.

I am, I admit, annoyed that after I joked and said I was paranoid and tried to give good reasoning for voting GH, mainly because I felt sorry for him, that someone still picked something in this to try and turn the light upon me.

Such attention is unwanted in any role.

I would ask what everyone here would have me do to avoid suspicion that Hankerchief and I are connected in this game in anyway, but until someone suggests - I will simply change my vote.

Deselect: GeneralHankerchief

Select: True Praetorian

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There's no way the initial post can be taken as a joke. He said he was paranoid, came back and edited his post to give a reason because he was worried, and asked us not to look at it too closely. He also asks us what he should do to avoid suspicion, which is another scum tell.

3) Sidestepping: He hasn't responded to the accusation of dishonesty, instead moving to the offensive:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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Originally Posted by Glenn via PM

Your belligerence is even more thirsty than when you were an innocent civilian.

I thought I gave correct evidence, and didn't see my error worthy of death in any case.

I have no suspicions of anyone yet - excepting your sudden attacks, and how you push for a bandwagoning attempt upon me.

Don't make any mistakes in your posts, Sasaki, and don't betray anything - because you aren't a Pro-Townie.

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4) Self PreservationAnd despite his certainty that I am not pro-town, he is willing to offer a truce:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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If you are innocent, I don't think there is anyway I can prove mine to you in speech - and I don't see anyway you can convince me that you aren't a family member who has mistaken me for one - and is now attempting to lynch me - or kill me.

But I know one way in which we can trust each other, and that is by my abstenance from prosecuting against anything you say, and your abstenance from harming my welfare also in the public arena.

This way we can both be peaceful without entrusting ourselves to each other, and we can be sure, assuming we're both innocent, that we aren't doing any harm to our own team - and keep this attitude until something drastically changes.

Tell me wether you agree with this.

I think it's likely you'll refuse, and continue to try and lynch me - but I'd prefer you to disappoint me in that apprehension.

Glenn

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If a townie thinks someone is guilty, they don't offer a truce for the sake of self preservation. QED. 4 strikes and you're out. Lynch Glenn.

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

No, I'm simply defending someone whom I believe is a mistaken lynch target.

Those who have played with me and paid close attention to me in the past know that I've always fought against "newbie lynches" who seem to have just misspoke.

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Really? You think someone who is paranoid, lies about it, sidesteps questions, and acts strongly for self preservation is "misspeaking"? What do you consider scummy short of guaranteed detective investigations?

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Really? You think someone who is paranoid, lies about it, sidesteps questions, and acts strongly for self preservation is "misspeaking"? What do you consider scummy short of guaranteed detective investigations?

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Behavior that in the past indicated scumminess when the people doing so should have known better.

I think we're getting a bit too excited Sasaki. Can't remember you being so attacking from the start SK. We're not trying to spread choas are we? Just had to say that SK, just had to.

Though you do raise valid points. However I think the first kills will reveal much more. And perhaps we might then be able to build a bigger case than the writing style of someone who's writing style doesn't even is known. He might not have defended his case, but aren't mafiosi the guys who'd defend their case the most? (That or they would ignore it, hoping it would be forgotten.)

Re: Andres.

Missed the post when you first did it (and second time too).

Anyway, it was indirect pressure. Sasaki's been dogging Glenn and those who gave (to him) questionable reasoning for electing me. By using some kind of mathematical or logical reasoning, I figured that if he was pressuring my alleged "goons" he'd think that I was in on something too.

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Originally Posted by Moros

I think we're getting a bit too excited Sasaki. Can't remember you being so attacking from the start SK. We're not trying to spread choas are we? Just had to say that SK, just had to.

Though you do raise valid points. However I think the first kills will reveal much more. And perhaps we might then be able to build a bigger case than the writing style of someone who's writing style doesn't even is known. He might not have defended his case, but aren't mafiosi the guys who'd defend their case the most? (That or they would ignore it, hoping it would be forgotten.)

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So first you say Sasaki is spreading chaos, then you agree with him. Allthough he gives valid points, you say that we have to wait for the kills because they will make for a better case? Then you say that Glenn did not defend his case, but a mafioso would defend his case, but then again he would not defend his case...

Eh...

I'm lost.

Have you been drinking? Or are you scum that feels the need to post and to look like the helpfull townie?

:inquisitive:

:bulb: :bulb2: :bulb:

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Re: Andres.

Missed the post when you first did it (and second time too).

Anyway, it was indirect pressure. Sasaki's been dogging Glenn and those who gave (to him) questionable reasoning for electing me. By using some kind of mathematical or logical reasoning, I figured that if he was pressuring my alleged "goons" he'd think that I was in on something too.

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And in what post exactly was it written that you could be/are linked to Glenn?

Oh no, there wasn't such a post, you just used "mathematical reasoning"...

So it was a pre-emptive defense?

Sounds like fear of being lynched + a bit of paranoia to me.

You're usually not the kind of guy who loses his nerve and gets paranoid that easily...

Strange to say the least.

:inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by Andres

So first you say Sasaki is spreading chaos, then you agree with him. Allthough he gives valid points, you say that we have to wait for the kills because they will make for a better case? Then you say that Glenn did not defend his case, but a mafioso would defend his case, but then again he would not defend his case...

Eh...

I'm lost.

Have you been drinking? Or are you scum that feels the need to post and to look like the helpfull townie?

:inquisitive:

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Well No, I've been drinking a lot lately but I haven't today. Maybe the beer did kill the braincells though. (Not that that would have required a lot of beer though. :laugh4: )

Anyway my point is, that though he has some valid points, I think he's a bit overreacting. That's all. And that thing about spreading chaos? Wel I just had to ask, I had to. Who said it again? That paranoia in this game was good.

also at least I wasn't pmming in English ~;).

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Originally Posted by Andres

And in what post exactly was it written that you could be/are linked to Glenn?

Oh no, there wasn't such a post, you just used "mathematical reasoning"...

So it was a pre-emptive defense?

Sounds like fear of being lynched + a bit of paranoia to me.

You're usually not the kind of guy who loses his nerve and gets paranoid that easily...

Strange to say the least.

:inquisitive:

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Hmm, let's see...

The fact that he (along with a few other people) was being called out specifically for their reasons for voting moi, perhaps?

And yeah, it was a pre-emptive defense. I didn't want to have to wake up with 50 "you said you like the choice of Kommodus, why did you not vote him then?" posts waiting for reply.