Napoleonic Mod

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Lord Krazy @ July 28 2003,04:44)]

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Lazul @ July 27 2003,17:07)]Just wondering: what will be the start and end year of this mod?

Will the start be with napoleon taking power and the end be with hes death?... thats not very long you know http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

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It will a bit longer than that .

I'm starting to regret using the word Napoleonic . http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Well at least without putting
"...type" "...style" "vauge resmemblence to ..."
in the title also . http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

The mod will start before the Napoleonic Period
so to speak and will go on till the time
of Napoleon III.
I mean his nephew not the third version of the mod . http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

So Balaclava and Solferino will be in the time frame also.

So about as long as it's taking to make. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif

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Really...So we should see percusion rifle armed line infantry, right?

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Lord Krazy @ July 28 2003,07:54)]Axelthorpe

That's the idea , but we have a lot of animations
to add and doing an early and late set for each faction
might not be possible .

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif

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Let's say I focus on the era I mentioned earlier 1815-1845, that would be ok then?

What about those sprites btw? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Axelthorpe @ July 28 2003,18:10)]Let's say I focus on the era I mentioned earlier 1815-1845, that would be ok then?

What about those sprites btw? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

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Well have a look at the sprites first .
Tell me if it's close enough for a Swede. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Now Lazul told me that if I turn the Danes blue
and yellow they would do as the Swedes .
So what colour should I turn the Swedes to make
them Danish ? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Lord Krazy @ July 28 2003,17:07)]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Axelthorpe @ July 28 2003,18:10)]Let's say I focus on the era I mentioned earlier 1815-1845, that would be ok then?

What about those sprites btw? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

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Well have a look at the sprites first .
Tell me if it's close enough for a Swede. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Now Lazul told me that if I turn the Danes blue
and yellow they would do as the Swedes .
So what colour should I turn the Swedes to make
them Danish ? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif

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No. no, no...
You can't make a dane Swedish, never

I know a few of 'em, they can live here for 20 years, without learning a single word Swedish, of course their talk becomes more Swedish (unintentional of course), but come on, 20 years. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif

I feel I'm gonna be popular with the Danish population around here. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Hmmm... so the uniforms of the swedish and the danish really differed that much?
I thought most countrys had "the same" uniforms (With som small changes) and just had diffrent colour.
I need to know theese things... im going to studdy history in september http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

and Axelthorpe... jepp... those danes are anoying http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif

Now as i understand Sweden might not get in to the mod (please add them )... but what other nations will there be?

AustroHungarians
British
Danish
Dutch
Prussians
Piemontese/Italians ?
Polish (well for a few turns anyway) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
Portugese
Russians
Spanish
Swedish
Ottomans

These are the inteded factions .


I tought all you guy's spoke Klingön anyway.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif

Lets see some mods and then maybe spam would drop a little.

I'm looking for pictures of Russian and Prussian infantrymen, from early 19th century, wearing shakoes.
If anyone got one, please drop me a line.

Thanks
Axl

Here are links for prussian uniforms (and some other countries):


In this link are tons of uniforms (but the images are not very good): http://www.brigade.napoleon-online.d...catalogue.html

Another link: http://www.compagnie-d-elite.de/About_u....Tafel23
Here you find also uniforms of other nations.

Here are other pics of prussians: http://www.fortunecity.com/victori....ht.html


Don´t know if this link is a big help: http://www.angelfire.com/id/macp/prussianinfantry.html


Antalis:: http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

The campaign is comming along .
It works as an addon , although
the default faction names have been used for
the moment .

An install will be made available soon ,
that will let you play a campaign for
150 years with the nap units .

It's very basic but in works so to speak.
Seen as it all has to be redone with the
VI land_reg and faction name format ,
this is all you will get for a couple of weeks .

The format has already been change for the VI setup,
but it has to br implemented . This will be done now
seen as we now our basic model works. So the first version
will be a stop gap for the real thing .

This may be a bit soon to say this as the beta testers
still nedd to report back , but it works me so
what ever problem they will have is with my install.
That will be easy to fix if needs be , so you will have
it soon anyway . Even if you don't like it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif


Regards

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif

@Axelthorpe

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]I'm looking for pictures of Russian and Prussian infantrymen, from early 19th century, wearing shakoes.
If anyone got one, please drop me a line.

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try the link: http://www.grosser-generalstab.de/tafeln/knoetel.html

They provide digital scans of plates of Richard Knötels "Grosse Uniformkunde" - amazing work btw.

Greetings
Hal

Thanks Guys the "Grosse Uniformkunde" seems to bee a very useful source, do you have it?
And the other pages was good too, compagnie-d-elite.de had good charts, a little small though, can they be bought.

It didn't work out the way I wanted, you see, the Swedish shako introduced in 1816 is said to be inspired by the Russian and Prussian shakoes, but it doesn't look like the prussian one got anything to do with it though.

It looks like I have to work on Prussian units now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Btw:
Swedish shako m/1916:
http://m1.457.telia.com/~u45703849/bilder/Shako.jpg
Swedish Husar-cap, late 18th- early 19th Century:
http://m1.457.telia.com/~u45703849/bilder/Husar.jpg
Yeah, yeah I know the dildo thingy ontop of the husarcap looks like shit, but I don't have Shag: Fur so that's the best I can do.
Non of them are finished yet.

lol, the dildo thingy... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif

it looks great, but the dildo thingy is sooo funny because of how you describe it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif

Lancer

I'd just like to say that the reason I haven't been in contact is because I recently got a new comp and still haven't organized anything.

No probs Efrem you have not missed much.
You'll have some stuff comming you way soon .

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif

Great thanks. I plan to instal 1.1 soon.

It has been awhile since my last update,The campaign is progressing nicely, new portraits, buildings,game pieces (which look great by the way) are being added, I have to say this is a total conversion, everything that can be changed will and is being changed. For those who were interested in The Square formation I have been tinkering with it in my spare time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif , I have been able to achieve various results by experimenting with values in the unit prod file, The infantry that used to break and run in the face of a Cav charge, which to me renders a formation like the square useless, they will now attack them outright after the inital attack they will attempt to reform, which they do throughout the course of the battle, they will reform around the generals unit, so it kind of plays out like this attack,break away, reform. So while this is progress it is not the effect we want. I will keep trying until I get the units to Hold The Line LOS

Mod Community News
The mod community continues to go from strength to strength and there now are some great mods out there. We have our own mod forums, as does the Org, and these are great places to catch the latest news on the best mods or to get technical advice for starting your own.

Mods range from new maps and campaigns to larger, more ambitious projects. Currently there is work in progress on Roman and Napoleonic period mods for MTW-VI as well as some early development on fantasy themes. Please be aware that these are unofficial mods and as such are not supported by Activision or the Creative Assembly. For a good look at the mod community check out these links.

www.totalwar.com mod forums
www.totalwar.org mod forums
Lord Crazy's mod site
Lord Crazy's mod gallery

This is currently on the front page at TW.com, should equal some good exposure for the Mod, and for the Org.Modding community and LK or is that LC http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif

YAY They mentioned us as well http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif (thankfully without saying lotr... no lawyers gona come snooping about here from NLC http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif )

Whoop http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Im sure lord Crazy will be delighted that his name is on the front of the official webpage of one of the best games ever http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (_Martyr_ @ Aug. 18 2003,23:39)]YAY They mentioned us as well http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif (thankfully without saying lotr... no lawyers gona come snooping about here from NLC http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif )

Whoop http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Im sure lord Crazy will be delighted that his name is on the front of the official webpage of one of the best games ever http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif

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Well I'm used to mistakes and it's to be expected.
I mean why people think your mod has anything to do with
Roltt or whatever you call it is beyond me . http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/rolleyes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif


btw it should be The Lords anyway .
It's not like I did all this by myself . http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

The last few bits and peices are being added
to the campaign now . All the mtw units have been removed from the unit prod and the buildings we will not be using.
We are adding graphics for info_pics and events at present
when that is done and the names have been sorted properly
we will be looking at releasing it.

LOS will let you know when the time comes .
It won't be too long now .

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif

Nice to see that everyone is back
Btw i sent you a mail a couple of weeks ago LK, but you never answered so I forgot it. Can't remember everything (anything). http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Thanks for the update, I cant wait for the release of the mod. Great job, and good luck http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Lancer

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Axelthorpe @ Aug. 20 2003,21:45)]Nice to see that everyone is back
Btw i sent you a mail a couple of weeks ago LK, but you never answered so I forgot it. Can't remember everything (anything). http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

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I got it, and forgot it too, sorry.
Well I didn't forget as much as , not have the time to send a proper reply . I understand and remember the question and will let you know you what to do soon.
The ones that have six frame are doubled up.
So for the six frame walk and run to get the timming right,
just double them up so frame 1 will be frame 1 and 2
and so on. It get's a bit more complicated for the shoot
but first things first.

I'll mail you with more details in a a few days .

Thanks

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif

http://mysite.freeserve.com/lordkraz...8-picture2.gif


http://mysite.freeserve.com/lordkraz...6-picture2.gif


Here is an idea of what the campmap units will look like.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif

WOW they look amazing

Greetings all http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif It seems a problem exists with the CannonBatt unit regarding firing.
LK has made a fix for this by correcting some data in Projectile Stats here is the link.
for the fix CannonBatt Fix LOS

Who is responsible for the unit graphics? I've seen some 3D models and items scattered all around and I was wondering wether the person responsible for this artwork is interested working together with me. The detail on the Napoleonic soldier I saw earlier is very impressive, and if he/I can convert that to a LightWave file than I will be able to get unitgraphics similar to the Middle Earth ones.
I've got the process semi-automated, so if someone can provide a model I will have a test BIF very soon.
And since the soldiers don't use different weapons or shields I can stuck the rifle on the model and that will avoid having to write all the weapon coordinates.

Just let me you if you're interested

Cheers, Duke John

ps Those Strategic pieces look very nice, kudos to the maker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Duke John @ Aug. 22 2003,07:02)]Who is responsible for the unit graphics? I've seen some 3D models and items scattered all around and I was wondering wether the person responsible for this artwork is interested working together with me. The detail on the Napoleonic soldier I saw earlier is very impressive, and if he/I can convert that to a LightWave file than I will be able to get unitgraphics similar to the Middle Earth ones.
I've got the process semi-automated, so if someone can provide a model I will have a test BIF very soon.
And since the soldiers don't use different weapons or shields I can stuck the rifle on the model and that will avoid having to write all the weapon coordinates.

Just let me you if you're interested

Cheers, Duke John

ps Those Strategic pieces look very nice, kudos to the maker

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I've made some work in 3d, the hats earlier in this post for example. I also did a 18th Century soldier a while back, and I'm working on a napoleonic-period soldier at the moment. I'm not very fast, so you'll have to be patient. But I would appreciate your help very much (I hate animation).

In which program did you make the model? Would you mind sending the file to me? robgraat@hotmail.com
If you do, that's ok

Cheers, Duke John

Well ive looked at about 50% of these pages and i havent found a list of the Factions that will be included (its 22 pages long so have a heart and dont tell me its been said before http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif ) so im gonna post the factions as they were in the Napoleonic era and then show a map of europe that shows their locations and size :

In no particular Order (i have the uniforms of all these countries excpet Germany which im looking for)

Britian
France
Spain
Portugal
Switzerland
Confederation of the Rhine (later the Germanic States)
Prussia
Sweeden
Duchy of Warsaw
Austria
Russian Empire
Ottoman Empire
Sweeden
Denmark
Norway
The Kingdom Of Italy
The Kingdom Of Naples (im not sure if this was the name they went under)

heres the picture (it shows the states as they were at the opening of the napoleonic wars ie who was allied with france and who was against and who was neutral)

http://www.dodstudios.net/uploads/uploads/nepMap2.jpg

Cheers for the Info Sir Moody, but we prety much have start positions and factions already covered/

I am sure you will be happy with the final release, we have some very knowledgable guys who have sorted all this out so that it is as acurate as we can make it with the map available.

What you could realy help us on though is the Ottoman army and it's uniforms. Do you have any info on them at all?

Welcome to the Nap mod, we are always glad to have fresh blood http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

Greetings Sir Moody, The factions being prepared for the Mod are as follows(some are still being developed for later inclusion) and are subject to change. This will give you and idea.
English
French
Russian
Piemontese
Danish
Prussian
Austro Hungarian
Spanish
Ottoman
Swedes
Polish
Note* If you could reduce the size of that map a bit it is on the large side and slows the load time of the page for us 56k guys. Thanks LOS http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

well what i do know about the ottomons isnt much but ill tell u what i know

They used a "halfbreed" army - As a muslim state they held traditions very high and as such didnt addopt the more modern army techniques of the europeans. Their Infantry was Primarily Swordsmen with Muskets used as Archers would be used in the Medieval period. They were VERY fond of big guns tho and used a verity of heavy artillery in much greater numbers than their european counterparts.

If u give me a little time ill find u some images of their Soldiers

(and ill reduce the map size :P)

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Sir Moody @ Aug. 22 2003,17:47)]well what i do know about the ottomons isnt much but ill tell u what i know

They used a "halfbreed" army - As a muslim state they held traditions very high and as such didnt addopt the more modern army techniques of the europeans. Their Infantry was Primarily Swordsmen with Muskets used as Archers would be used in the Medieval period. They were VERY fond of big guns tho and used a verity of heavy artillery in much greater numbers than their european counterparts.

If u give me a little time ill find u some images of their Soldiers

(and ill reduce the map size :P)

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Images would be fantastic if you could get them, they are what we are sorley missing.




http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/cool.gif

ok ive done a lot of looking and have come up with 4 pictures tho one i have to scan so i wont post it till later (it is very much like another anyway)

Ok the First is a painting from 1820's showing 4 janissary infantry recruits - notice the Red jacket on the one on the right

http://www.dodstudios.net/uploads/uploads/Turj2.jpg

Ok heres the second its a painting of the same era again of 2 janissary infantry guarding a Commander - This seems from all historical accounts of the jannisary infantry to be the uniform they used - as for other foot troops i cannot find anything even descriptions until 1850 onwards

http://www.dodstudios.net/uploads/uploads/Turk3.jpg

ok this pic is as the title says a book cover of a book that covers the Russian Turkey war - the soldier on the right is a turkish infantry man and my last pic i havent scaned in yet is of a turkish artillery officer in the same uniform. All descriptions ive found refer to the Turks having fought in this uniform as a whole sorry ill keep looking but thats the best i can come up with

http://www.dodstudios.net/uploads/uploads/Turkone.jpg

Sorry guys, didn't know we still lacked info on the Ottoman States.

Troop Types for the Napoleonic Wars

Suvarileri Cavalry / Mamluk cav (similar and both poor)

Sipahis Cavalry (as much use as a chocolate watch strap)

Djellis/Yoruk/Arab/Bedouin worse than the above

Solaks (sultan's guard) Not bad about Euro reserve line qualitiy

Janissary Inf Line and Light (landwher,militia qualitiy)

Nazam-i-Jedid Infantry (These guuys look as good as Line inf&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif

Sekhan Provincial Inf (militia again)

Martolo (Derbent) Inf (Poor Line)

Fellahin Inf (my dead Granny could take on some 1000)

On the lists I have it suggested that although they had lots of big guns, they were very old and poorly crewed. Note that most of the guns were for seiges only and no use on the battlefield.

Information taken from 'Napoleon's Battles' wargames rules, the stats for these are very good, while I've never played the Ottomans the other nations behave as they should.

The Osprey Men at Arms book for the Ottoman Armies prior to the copy shown above is the one we need. Mate of mine has a copy. I'll try to get in touch and get some images, I've see it before and it's got all we need enc poor Order of Battles.

Hope this helps in some small way,

Kind Regards,

De Moray

Hey guys, decided i would give this one a swing now.I went to the Lords site and it seems a little scattered.
I assume:
Original MTW1.1
Install 1.7&1.8 to the TW folder
Anything i should know beforehand?thanx. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif

BTW.. everything in the shots look great

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (oblivious maximus @ Aug. 24 2003,02:38)]Hey guys, decided i would give this one a swing now.I went to the Lords site and it seems a little scattered.
I assume:
Original MTW1.1
Install 1.7&1.8 to the TW folder
Anything i should know beforehand?thanx. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif

BTW.. everything in the shots look great

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Lords Mirror site Link for Nap Unit Mod OM, Use this link and for MTW v1.1 all you need to download is v1.8 and 1.81 they have auto install features so not much trouble there, view the readme and if you have any problems e-mail me at ronin27k@aol.com or post back here and we will take care of you straight away. Thanks LOS

Napoleon freak coming though if you want any info on the Ottomans go to the TW forums, go to the Napoleonic Crusade. Hey Lord of Storms, its me Hasrubal from the TW forums. Ask me for any unit info or go to the crusade.

hey I was wondering if the this mod is a campaign or just custom battles?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Marshal Murat @ Aug. 24 2003,16:23)]Napoleon freak coming though if you want any info on the Ottomans go to the TW forums, go to the Napoleonic Crusade. Hey Lord of Storms, its me Hasrubal from the TW forums. Ask me for any unit info or go to the crusade.

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Greetings MMHasrubal http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif , good to see you migrated over here, glad to have another Nap Freak
I would really like to thank you and all your Nap Freak friends over at the .com We appreciate your enthusiasm and support http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif LOS

the first few are for custom battles, the new one however is for the campaign. Thanks, i'm real proud of the thread, I hope most of the units can be used.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Coug @ Aug. 24 2003,17:03)]hey I was wondering if the this mod is a campaign or just custom battles?

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Greetings Coug The unit betas that are available for download now are just for Custom Battles, The Campaign is being Beta Tested now and will be released some time soon.
It is shaping up to be somewhat of a total Napoleonic Conversion You can keep checking here for the Campaigns release date Thanks LOS

so I need to DL VI1 but do I also need 1.8 and 1.81?

You just need the VI version, because if you use version 1.81 as well the game will become faulted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Coug @ Aug. 24 2003,17:50)]so I need to DL VI1 but do I also need 1.8 and 1.81?

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The VI units beta is for the Viking Version of MTW Only . The v1.8 and 1.81 are the betas for MTW v1.1 and you would need both to play on MTW
P.S.v1.1 1.8 + 1.81 work together 1.81 is a patch for 1.8

cool thanks for all your help. If those SS of the campaign are any measure of the hard work and skill you guys put into this mod it should be a pleasure to play it. Keep up the good work Lords

The game is so cool, if you play it. Also if you go to the TW forum, there is a website called the Royal foot guards forum, its a site for the the online Napoleonic campaigns.

For those who had interests in the ottoman army (not the mamelukes), here is a summary of some research I got from the web.

Caracteristics of the turkish army-
poor formation-
Order of battle is adapted to ennemy faced Vs unifromity of tactic for europeens
Army based around cavalry with 2 types- 1. Capou-Koulis, suvarileri or buluk halki paid by Sultan-
2. Huge amount of cavalrymen recruited when needed (Sipahi, Yoruks, Diellis or Turcomans)- Cavalry was fighting as well on foot-
Used europeen renegats under d'Inglis-mustapha, (Georges Campbell, English officer). They were very succeffull

Cavalry:

Mode of fighting-
Charged in mass whatever nature of adversary Charged in mass to eliminate isolated advirsary using sabre (not lances)

Capou Koulis or Suvarileris- 28000 men in 6 units with specific role during battle but little is known on this
Sipahi- 10000 men under comandmant of a Pacha
Yoruks - Very hard and mean fighters but fight only when reward is present- Specialize in ambushes- Typical irregular soldiers
Djellis - elite troop (equivalent of the Royal guard or the Old guard)Infantry- Very good in melee (should have high bonus) due to many weapons they used-

Infantry:
represent 40 to 50 % of the army during battles-
Mainly formed with Janissaries (not well trained and not very reliable during this time period-
New units called Nizam were formed by Selim III in 1799. elite troop trained by Prussians-
Sekhans – Milices. Do not root. Better than Janissaries in some cases (especially from Albany and Greece)

Artillery (Topidjis)-
Big ottoman specialty using biggest cannons -
Very good moral and technics but unreliable cannons with different sizes

Lord Le Bob

Just amazing.Good workIn all my years of studying history,the one era ive avoided has my interest now.

Hoping italian units are in fit in and interested how the ottomans turn out,also curious about the rebels.
Cant wait to play a campaign.

Do you guys realize when your done,this might be the best Imperial pc game to date?

This is not a critique but an honest question,and im sure its way past that anyway.

In going back and reading Demon of Lights posts,it reminded me of me wondering why did CA originally give basic foot soldiers,peasants even portraits.Lord knows they didnt have them made.

Why not save them for,nobiliy,emisseries,high generals,title holders and such?
In the place of a portrait when not necessary,couldnt future mods just leave a crest,silohuette of somekind or nothing?


http://mysite.freeserve.com/lordkraz...5-picture3.gif

Vive L'Emperur ...ehh whatever

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif

List of Ottoman Empire Sultans for the period

Mahmud I (1730-1754)
Osman III (1754-1757)
Mustafa III (1757-1774)
Abd-ul-Hamid I (1774-1789)
Selim III (1789-1807)
Mustafa IV (1807-1808)
Mahmud II (1808-1839)
Abd-ul-Mejid (1839-1861)


Also have a look at this
[URL=http://http://www.napoleonseries.org/article.[/URL]
More to follow,

De Moray

If anyone has the cash or can get these titles from their local library then we'll have our awnsers

MAA314: Armies of the Ottoman Empire 1775-1820

MAA 079 Napoleons Egyptian Campaign

Both are Osprey Men at Arms titles

De Moray

http://www.worldstatesmen.org/tr_otom1700.GIF

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (LeBob @ Aug. 25 2003,09:23)]New units called Nizam were formed by Selim III in 1799. elite troop trained by Prussians-

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Here's a pic of em, sorry could only get Wargames figures. While these units may have been regarded elite by the Ottomans, by European standards they were very poor.

http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/images/OXT/OXT-32.gif

De Moray

Hey De' Moray, haven't seen you in a while, i was getting worriedat the Royal Foot Guards forum.

Just a few things i was wondering about.

*As we all know armies of this era was bigger then the medievel ones so will the support cost be lower so more undits can be trained or can we expect same sized armies?

*Imo it rain alot in this game, and due to the fact that rifle dudes cant fire in rain, wont this be very anoying? what if the Ai launches a large scale attack on you but he deciedes to atack in rain?

*Will the standard line infantrys differ alot betwean nations? ex: will the standard moral be higher in the freanch army than in the danish or swedish?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

Dear Lazul, the French had conscription, and most of the others had it as well, but limited. We are trying to strive for large armies for battle.
Rain ,thats my problem
What I do is that I wait till it stops by moving the tab bar. Also, i thought that muskets could fire in rain, because of the flintlock, but I guess I was wrong.
I think we should have a expiriance factor. Conscripts are less expiranced, and less likely to hold against columns, calvary, and cannon. Veterans can hold, or do better.

The rain issue has been on my mind alot recently. Yes it is realistic and yes muskets would be unable to fire in rain until armies were equiped with percussion cap rifles, but I have stumbled across a large problem.

The AI at the moment take far too much cavalry, and if you like me try to stick to history by building armies with more Infantry, all I can say is you are proverbaly buggered if it rains which it does as most battles are fought in spring when it always rains.

Personaly I think this problem should be solved by making cavalry less prominent in the AI armies not making it rain less, but that would also work.

Also will someone please make the General unit crap. They should not be able to plow through my Cuirassier guard like a hot knife through butter, they were not fighting men. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif

Just a few things i was wondering about.

*As we all know armies of this era was bigger then the medievel ones so will the support cost be lower so more undits can be trained or can we expect same sized armies?

Just the same sized armies you'll need to use a little imagination but think of each unit as battalion or regiment 600-1000 men and the scale soon adds up the numbers.

*Imo it rain alot in this game, and due to the fact that rifle dudes cant fire in rain, wont this be very anoying? what if the Ai launches a large scale attack on you but he deciedes to atack in rain?

I think that the rain is a great feature gives you a chance to get stuck in with the bayonet

*Will the standard line infantrys differ alot betwean nations? ex: will the standard moral be higher in the freanch army than in the danish or swedish?

This is already in the game, VALOUR. The reason that the nations may have better moral is due to their leaders of the time, your the leader now......

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif


Regards De Moray

Thanx for the anwers but what i meant with the whole standard thing was this; If you compare the "units stats" of a normal line infantry man in the french army, is he just as good as the swedish infantry man if he is just trained and they have no general bonus? So are the attack, and defend stats the same?

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Also will someone please make the General unit crap. They should not be able to plow through my Cuirassier guard like a hot knife through butter, they were not fighting men

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actually while ole bonney and welly didnt there were some generals of the period who lead from the front they just arnt remmbered as well as the Big Minds who sat at the back

Okay more Ottoman stuff, some of you may not like this but it's from reliable sources.

1st up the battle of Heliopolis 20 March 1800

French Forces 12,000
French losses 600

Turkish forces 40,000 Mamelukes, Bedouin cav & Fellahin.
Turkish Losses 8000-9000

The figures talk for themselves. While the Mameluke was a feirce warrior he was still in the middle ages and attacked in a wide uncontrollable charge.

Please don't consider these troops as elite or even good it'll spoil the whole game.

Next up.......

from P.J.Haythornthwaite

The forces of the Egyptian province were raised and fought in much the same way as those of the remainder of the Ottoman Empire with locally raised forced of little training and whose sole tactic was an uncontrollable headlong rush. The Albanian and Moroccan infantry were by far the best and could perform with resolution, but as with the main Ottoman forces the whole together more resembled (in John Moore's words) a wild, ungovernable mob. Unique to Egypt were the Mamelukes, exclsively cavalry, armed and fighting in the manner of the middle ages, whose tactic was simply a valiant charge, during which the Mameluke would fire his carbine and several pairs of pistols, throw his javelins and finally close with sword upon the enemy. Each Mameluke has a number of servants who acted as a kind of infantry, whose main duty was to recover his masters fire arms thrown aside after fighting and finish off any survivors. Against formed troops as proved by Napoleon they could easily be driven away. Among the local forces were the impressed mobs of peasants or Fellahin often armed with no more than clubs, and the bands of mounted Arabs, neither of any combat value.

The Ottoman army was composed of two main branches the regulars (paid) and the irregulars (unpaid). The regulars had no training and no tactic whatever save a head longrush. The Janissaries once renowed as the most feared and fearsome of the Sultans servants by this period were very poor indeed. Their method of combat was a combination of modern and medieval. They were uncontrollable at best, prone to revolt and to leave their ranks to search for prizes and booty.

The Austrian commander Archduke Charles characterised them as brave and bold and very adept at weapon handling but totally incapable of acting in concert. Charles stated that the Turks were incapable of awaiting an attack in formation or defending a position.

Navy
The Ottoman Empire possessed a Navy of some strength, ships of the line, frigates and galleys (in 1790 some 30, 50 and 100 respectively), most of their saliors were Greek. The design of the maion vessels was not unlike those of the European powers. The sailing ability was competent but tactically they were far behind Europe.

Hope this helps to build up a bigger picture of the Ottomans. Perhaps poor troops but large numbers could be used at little cost.

Regards,

De Moray

So the Ottomans were in fact a large wild charge to scare and break the enemy. Seems like an army not worth fighting. Charge Charge Charge, Bang Bang Bang. The enemy is wiped from the field. Also do you think we should have seasons to enlarge the playing area. It would extend the life of the game.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Sir Moody @ Aug. 27 2003,13:51)]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Also will someone please make the General unit crap. They should not be able to plow through my Cuirassier guard like a hot knife through butter, they were not fighting men

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actually while ole bonney and welly didnt there were some generals of the period who lead from the front they just arnt remmbered as well as the Big Minds who sat at the back

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Agreed, Marshal Ney and Black Bob Crawford to name but two were men who led from the front, but they were still not monsters that can not be stopped. In my opinion the general unit represents your leader and his aides de camp and other staff members, they should not act like a fighting unit.

I'm just bitter because my carefully executed attack from the rear by a unit of Hussars and Cuirassiers were single handedly destroyed by a single unit of Generals. That should not happen

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (De Moray @ Aug. 27 2003,16:36)]Please don't consider these troops as elite or even good it'll spoil the whole game.

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Agreed, but neither shouold they be terrible as such.
I think the main problem with the ottoman army at the time was not the quality of their troops per say, but the tactics which they employed. Their outdated method of charging headlong at their enemies can easily atest for the rediculous casualties that they recieved in the battle you give as an example. One can easily imagine the French simply forming an organised square and blasting the cavalry to pieces in relative safety.

This does not mean that Malmeluke cavalry would not win a one on one cavalry charge against other nation cavalry. Indeed they should probably win against other light or medium horse. They were skilled horsemen and brave as can be atested by Napoleon's admiration of them and his raising of the Imperial Guard Malmelukes.

Ok seeing as we have got the Ottoman problems out of the way, how is the diplomacy to be handled?

Hey Duke John, i've just been over to the METW thread and your units are amazing. We need people like you helping the Lordz. How about coming and joining? eh

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Brother Derfel @ Aug. 28 2003,03:55)]Agreed, but neither shouold they be terrible as such.

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Hi Derfel, thanks for your feedback.

I think that your right, it's just a fear that I have. If we look at the start pos for the Ottomans and add to that troops as effective as the Europeans the map will soon be over run with the Turks, not too disimilar to the Alomahads in MTW (at times). This would take away the true Napoleonic feal the we seem all to disire. The Ottomans were small, very small players in the Napoleonic Wars indeed. Give them too good troops and the AI then it will not be long before the map is Turkish.

Kind Regards,

De Moray

L De Moray,

I agree with what you wrote about the Ottoman army. Their tactic was very basic and not efficient against modern european armies...charge of cavalry even against squares and then infantry to finish the work.
Nevertheless, the Nezim units distinguished themselves in some battles and the ottoman army was fearfull in melee combat. The Russians saw that it was not that easy in the battle of Battin (1807).


LLB

Do we need to do something like, make the infantry stronger, or maybe make the Ottomans weaker. Make the strong troops very expensive. What do you think? What about the ships. Do you think we should have battles, with little ship markers, and break the line, or battle with line columns.

The tweaking of the units / armies will come latter I think. For now, we concentrate on releasing the campaign mod.
Concerning the ships, there is nothing we can do but to keep the mode of battle from the original game. Ships will be updated to reflect the time period but will work the same way.

LLB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (De Moray @ Aug. 28 2003,06:35)]I think that your right, it's just a fear that I have. If we look at the start pos for the Ottomans and add to that troops as effective as the Europeans the map will soon be over run with the Turks, not too disimilar to the Alomahads in MTW (at times). This would take away the true Napoleonic feal the we seem all to disire. The Ottomans were small, very small players in the Napoleonic Wars indeed. Give them too good troops and the AI then it will not be long before the map is Turkish.


De Moray

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I agree with De Moray here. Although there needs to be a buffer in that area of the map, which the Russians are at present all too easily exploiting, when the Ottomans are added I feel they should be comparitively weak in comparison to their European counterparts. Maybe a relatively strong unit or two (esp in the cavalry), but in the main, poor. That said, they do need to effectively fill the vacuum that currently exists in that area of the map, IMO.

LLB though is right. Its better that we concentrate on getting the thing out, then the tweaks come after.

I agree in general, but I don;t think the solution is to make the Ottoman units worse as such, but to make their good units much more expensive comparitivly

This will give the ottomans a decent army if they want it, but never in large numbers, effectively restricting them from becoming a huge power

Alternatvly, they can have a massive army of poor quality cheap troops which would fit history closer.

Either way, this would restrict the Ottomans from dominating the game.

Thankyou all for the feeback,

Dunno about you guys but I think this is building up a picture. Why don't we now think about a list of troop types for them and add comparions to units already in NTW and as needed MTW.

Then this leaves us with one last problem, periiod pictures of them so some bright spark can model them.

Derfel, I would agree with your second option, make em cheap, and let em build up large poorer armies. As for the Mamelukes perhaps they will need to be good.

Regards,

De Moray

The Ottoman Army

Infantry

-Sultan's Guard
-Janissary Regular troops.
-Nizam-I-Jedid Equivalent of Line infantry
-Sekhan Ranging from regular to militia quality
-Fellahin Militia
-Derbent Militia
-Raya Skirmishers

Notes: The Nizam-I-Jedid (New Order Army) were the result of the Sultan Selim's efforts to modernize, and Westernize, the army. The were good troops, but there were simply not enough of them to go round. Selim's reforms were further frustrated by the refusal of the Jannissaries to sit by and watch their power slip away. Not only did they effectively stop the modernisation, they ultimately removed Selim's head from his shoulders for his troubles. By this time the Jannissaries abilities had degraded somewhat and not all should be considered elite. The Sekhan infantry were semi-permanent troops raised by provincial governors and some were very good troops (easily the equal of the Jannisseries) while others were very, very bad. The Fellahin and Derbent troops should be thought of as an armed mob (much like hooligans really) as opposed to soldiers.
EDIT: All Infantry except the Raya Skirmishers and the Sultan's Guard should be Impetuous.

Cavalry

-Sultans Guard Cav. Elite - Medium, Lance
-Suvarileri Elite - Med, Lance
-Sipahi Regular - Med, Lance
-Mameluk Regular - Light
-Yoruk Militia, Light, Sk
-Djelli Regular, Light, Sk
-Arabic Militia, Light, Sk

Notes: Ottoman cavalry had a proud, if somewhat antiquated, battlefield heritage. Individually, they were superb horsemen and warriors, but their main limitation was the lack of discipline and cohesiveness in the charge. In Egypt the mameluks essentially ruled autonomously until finally brought to heel by Istanbul in 1811 in a particularly brutish campaign.
EDIT: All cavalry should be Impetuous

Artillery

-Topiji Heavy Foot Regular, 12 pdr equivalent
-Topiji Medium Foot Regular, 8 pdr
-Topiji Light Foot Regular, 6 pdr
-European Mercenary Artillery. Regular Medium, 8 pdr

Notes: The top-arbaleri gun wagons did not see service during this period. The Topiji also served as the Armys engineers. The Ottomans have no horse artillery.

I agree with De Moray again. Derfels second option seems much more historically correct to me, make 'em cheap and cheerful.

Good info Derf, Ottomans were never my strong point, as you know

That'll do nicely Derfel.

PICTURES anyone, not just close but the period ones plz.

De Moray

The Nazim Inf
The new infantry regiments wore a Greek cap (tarbuche) over a close fitting cap (tequi) with coat colours varying between regiments (light blue, dark blue, red and chesnut). Red leather boots and white belts and girdle. Cavalry had similar uniforms except one brigade had green instead of red dolmans. Boots were black and the girdle red. Artillery and engineer uniforms were the same as infantry with red coats.

More to come

De Moray http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif

Just found this of the French in Syria

http://www.napoleon.org/en/img/zooms.../436657_1.jpeg