EMFM do you believe sigurd is innocent? What makes you think prole wasn't protected by a doctor?
Printable View
EMFM do you believe sigurd is innocent? What makes you think prole wasn't protected by a doctor?
I'm not sure about Sigurd. I haven't been keeping up to date as well as I could have with this thread. Prole, on the other hand, has been attacked and defended constantly. Now, I'm not sure exactly how this works, but since she basically has a guarantee of protection, if she is a non-Mafia, why doesn't she say her role?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Vote Tran
Going to put my trust in JimBob
I have to go to bed now...
But a lot of interesting information is coming my way.
Be warned, much of it concerns this alleged FBI agent that JimBob has in his employment. This is not looking good for the mafia hiding in his ranks.
More on this tomorrow when I have the chance to piece it all together.
Vote well… and make sure you are able to switch votes when the **** hits the fan.
Good night
Vote: Sigurd
Why were you not lynched last phase?
Plus Jimbob is a confirmed town, your not.
Perhaps I was over-reacting to the source attribution. Maybe I was even confusing players a bit. Future reference, just note your general source a bit and I'll pretty much have to accept it. PMs prior to death would be perfectly acceptable.Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
Sorry for the confusion.
You are correct, all players had at least one Red text bullet point.Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
She's never been asked...you want to lynch someone for that over detective results?Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
I just think it's a little coincidental that Proletariat has had protection every night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
A question for you: If Sigurd was lynched, given the evidence available, would you lynch Proletariat the next round?
Vote: Sigurd
Time to bring another Don down.
Vote:Sigurd
I think you are a don and that means lynching.
Joe
I don't see why you'd take "a little coincidental" over "fbi detective result". I'm trying to see if your voting prole to save your don.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
What I get from the attacks is that someone really wants prole dead. I don't see why mafia would attack her every night if they thought she was a don--a don is practically guaranteed protection.
Vote: Sigurd
I believe TinCow..he has been declared pro-twon from the beginning of the game by numerous people, so why would he lie about detective results?
Also, Drisos did say Sigurd was a don at the very beginning..and he is not playing very pro-town at all. With so many accusations, it would do the town a favor to get rid of such person.
Mafia status as of N7:
--Stracci. Don: Omanes A. (dead), Luca: Dutch Guy (dead), Made: Andres (dead), NorthNovas (dead), Former associated wise guy: LouisVI (dead), associated wise guys or mades: Tran, Gibson. Calling Card: Pink ballet slippers. Victims: Drisos (detective, N1), Pannonian (wise guy, N3), Motep (wise guy, N5), Louis VI (N6), attempted hits on GH (N2, N3), Proletariat (N4), Craterus (N6), Sasaki (N7), Brave Sir Robin (N7).
--Corleone. Don: Sigurd (according to JimBob's contacts), Luca: Unknown, Made: Tiberius of the Drake (dead), several unknown associated wise guys. Calling Card: Weather balloons and religious paraphernalia. Victims: Glenn (crusader?, N3), Beefy (townie, N3), The Stranger (townie, N3), GH (wise guy, N4), attempted hits on Glenn (N2) and Proletariat (N4, N5, N6?).
--Tataglia. Family member: Makanyane (according to JimBob's contacts)
--Barzini. (Rose group according to Louis), associated wise guy: Ichigo (according to Louis)
--Cunnio.
Rose group (Barzinis according to Louis). Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any: unknown. Calling Card: Rose and a preference for explosives. Victims: Zorg (wise guy, N3), Moros (N4, wise guy or wolf-type character), Chimpyang (townie, N5, black rose), Lt. Pinard (N6), attempted hit on CR (N6, white rose), possible attempted hit on Proletariat (N4).
Italian Destiny group (Tataglia or Cunnio if Louis is correct about the Barzinis). Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any: unknown. Calling Card: an Italian phrase (destiny is inexorable). Victims: Kamikhaan (townie, N5), ajaxfetish (N6), Husar (N7).
According to JimBob and TinCow, TinCow has infiltrated a resurgent Stracci family, consisting of Tran, NorthNovas, and gibsonsg91921. NorthNovas has already been killed, and the two have yet to specify what roles each of the three have.
The Tataglia have responded to the Corleones' call for truce, according to TosaInu's second relayed communication.
Omanes suspected Sigurd to be the don of the Barzinis, JimBob is sure he is the don of the Corleones.
----------------------------------------------------
Musings:
xdeathfire and twilightblade have both fled to the police immediately after being attacked (xdeath on N1, twilight on N5). They may have a similar role, and this action would seem to suggest it's a pro-town one.
Lone killers with calling cards or consistent modi operandi
--.577 Webley. A rogue killer of unknown motivation. A single individual using the same weapon shot both Kommodus (luca, N4) and Woad&Fangs (wise guy, N5).
--King of Hearts. Another lone killer is operating, using knives and leaving King of Hearts playing cards. He participated in killing Woad & Fangs (N5) and Louis VI (N6), and attempted a kill on TinCow (N7). In both cases he was not the only killer involved (the .577 Webley guy also targeted Kommodus and the Stracchis also targeted Louis), yet in both cases each of the killers seemed surprised the other was there. This knife wielder has left the words 'dead rat' and 'traitor' on the cards he has left behind, so may be a mafia-aligned character whose objective is killing those who turn on the mafia from within. This is clearly the case for Louis, though Kommodus story is less clear.
Sasaki's looks like a mafia hit, failed due to protection, Straccis according to TinCow.
Brave Sir Robin was attacked by an incomplete group. Straccis according to TinCow.
Proletariat was attacked it seems by a lone assassin, and a snake charmer at that. Her trustworthy protection comes through yet again, meaning she has been attacked and successfully defended ever since N4 (four nights in a row, now).
Society for Creative Anachronism. JimBob's crusader vigilante team engaged in a failed hit on Tran, who survived possibly due to Luca protection but more likely due to mafia don luck. JimBob claims he also directed the successful hit on NorthNovas, equally theatrical but without the crusader elements.
Husar was a successful mafia hit by the Italian Destiny family.
TinCow's attack is interesting. He was attacked by the King of Hearts, knife-wielding assassin, who seems to be targeting mafia traitors. TinCow's claim to have infiltrated and betrayed the new Straccis would justify this assassin's interest in him. This is the first time the assassin attacked completely alone, and the first time he failed. There was no evidence of a protector for TinCow. Sigurd has suggested that TinCow is in reality a don and survived by luck. Of course Beefy's N1 attack suggests that some regular townies may also have a lucky streak. And there's a third possibility. Perhaps the knife-wielder can't kill a target if he's the only one to attack them. Mr. .577 Webley was also present for Kommodus' killing, and the Straccis for Louis'.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Post-mortem results:
15 pro-town
Townie: Lord Winter, Beefy, taka, the Stranger, FahadI, killfr3nzy, Sapi, Xiahou, Rhythmic, molonthegreat, Chimpyang, Kamikhaan
Detective: Drisos
Crusader?: Glenn, Rob the Celt
10 neutral
Wise Guy: Pevergreen, Hannibal, Pannonian, Zorg, GH, x-Danger, Moros (though Moros may be an unaffiliated mafia member), Motep, WarmasterHorus, Woad&Fangs
4 mafia
Made: Tiberius (Corleone), Andres (Stracci)
Luca: Kommodus (family unknown)
Don: Omanes (Stracchi)
Ajax
Sigurd's going to get lynched anyways. BTW, I missed this "evidence" you speak of. Can you refer me to a page? Once again, I'm a little behind with this game, mostly because of Victonia.Quote:
I don't see why you'd take "a little coincidental" over "fbi detective result". I'm trying to see if your voting prole to save your don.
Doesn't that mean we should lynch her then? If a Don is guaranteed protection, and she's always protected...really, make the connection.Quote:
What I get from the attacks is that someone really wants prole dead. I don't see why mafia would attack her every night if they thought she was a don--a don is practically guaranteed protection.
ajaxfetish, here is the info you requested. To make sure this complies with the rules, I want to emphasize that all of this information was provided to me in PMs from the living Stracchi (Andres, Dutch_guy, and eventually Northnovas and gibson91921) before they died. If anyone really doubts this information, I can dig up the PMs to prove it.
Northnovas was promoted to Made after N5. He had been working with the Stracchi since N4, and officially joined the family mid-way through N7.
gibson91921 is still a wiseguy, but is ready for advancement to Made. He has been working with the Stracchi since N4, and officially joined the family mid-way through N7.
Tran is probably still a wiseguy, but I'm not 100% sure about that. At a minimum, he is probably ready for advancement to Made He has been working with the Stracchi since before I got access to their information, but I do not know if he has ever officially joined the family.
The kills Northnovas and gibson participated in are as follows:
N2 - taka - failed
N3 - taka - succeeded (with GH)
N4 - Xiahou - succeeded (with GH)
N5 - Motep - succeeded
N6 - Craterus - failed
N7 - Sasaki - failed
I have less information on Tran, but I was informed of the following:
N6 - Louis VI - succeeded (with Dutch_guy)
N7 - Brave_Sir_Robin - failed
Oh, wouldn't want to forget my vote.
Vote: Sigurd
I have to agree with TinCow on this one; Sigurd in my eyes has come across as scummy; and his attempts at making everyone not vote for him so he can reveal this 'sepcial info' seem scummy as well.
Though probably not needed with the overwhelming votes now:
Vote: Sigurd
Thanks, TinCow ~:).
I'll update my post.
Ajax
Current tally
Sigurd - 10 (Sasaki, Kage, Myrddraal, shlin, sarathos, CA, Joe Monks, True Praetorian, TinCow, Warluster)
Proletatriat - 2 (CR, EMFM)
Tran - 1 (Little Grizzly)
TinCow 1 (Sigurd)
vote: abstain
for now.
It's interesting how both Louis and I died after Crazed Rabbit gave us certain information, also note that I attacked him in the thread and said I had more evidence that he may be guilty, now I'm dead, interesting, isn't it?
He's also the guy who claims that Sigurd has to die and who keeps attacking prole in the thread and I believe both of them (especially prole) to be innocent, I know why prole survived, I organized it, but I wasn't her luca.
That doesn't mean I won't have fun seeing the town go down because so far a lot of what I have seen in this thread seems like "we"(I wouldn't count certain people into this group) deserve it. :sweatdrop:
Anyone noticed that Sasaki was protected by a surgeon?
This would indicate that Prole has probably been protected by both doctors, one before that's now a surgeon and tonight the other doctor. I would say that it means that she got one really important role and some of the mafia knows about it.Quote:
fact, more than a few rounds had ricocheted dangerously close to the shooters themselves. They themselves had come closer to death than their target!
That or Seamus is fooling us with the unknown protector and she's a don. But I don't think there's enough single saves to promote a surgeon if you count out Prole.
For voting I'll run the classical
Vote: Abstain
Sigurd will most likely go today, but I would like to see this information he claims he got first.
Vote: Abstain
I dunno who to vote
vote:Proletariat
I'd liek to see a defence
I'd like to see a reason, I just gave you a defense but maybe you're unable to read? Or just guilty? :inquisitive:Quote:
Originally Posted by Elite Ferret
The Prole situation is very easy to resolve. She has been protected by a single person on every single night that she was attacked, even the night when Husar claims his group protected her as well. That's either a Doctor/Surgeon or a Luca. If it's a Doctor/Surgeon, that person should be perfectly happy informing JimBob that they have been protecting Prole. JimBob is 100% trustworthy and he will not pass on information to anyone else, even other pro-townies, if you ask it of him. All that is required to clear Prole is for the Doctor/Surgeon to contact JimBob and explain the situation. Then JimBob can tell us that Prole is cleared of suspicion and we can start looking at other targets. Since there is no reason for a Doctor/Surgeon not to talk to JimBob, we can also conclude that if he is not contacted by anyone, that Prole is protected by a Luca.
Precisely. ~:)Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironside
Reading this post I decided to check that conclusion.
This is Seamus' attacked list:
Attacked: (27) Andres (N2, N3), Beefy187 (N1), Brave Sir Robin (N7), Caius (N3), Craterus (N6), Crazed Rabbit (N6), Cowhead418 (N2), Evil_Maniac from Mars (N3), GeneralHankerchief (N2, N3), Glenn (N1, N2), Kagemusha (N6), Proletariat (N4, N4, N5, N6, N7), Sasaki Kojiro (N5, N7), taka (N2), Tran (N5, N7), TinCow (N7), Twilightblade (N4, N5), Xdeathfire (N1)
Going through all this:
(Key:
Protected by a townie group or Seamus' police (as director)
Protected by individual
Seemingly lucky escape)
Andres N2: Protected by Seamus' policemen (he was director).
Andres N3: Protected by a LaSalle driver.
Beefy187 N1: Survives by luck?
Brave Sir Robin N7: Attack fails. Only one attacker, missing a partner.
Caius N3: Attack fails. Multiple attackers turn up, but not enough, his escape is uncovered.
Craterus N6: Protected by a lone man, who pushes a bed to cover his fall.
Crazed Rabbit N6: Attacked by white rose mafia, attack fails, only one attacker turns up.
Cowhead418 N2: Saved by his landlady. This doesn't seem like a protector, rather it seems more like another lucky escape.
Evil_Maniac from Mars N3: Attacked by 2 people, but escapes. Seamus' comment "If the attackers had been only a bit better organized…" implies that it failed due to insufficient attackers.
GeneralHankerchief N2: Attacked by asian mafia, only one out of 2 attackers turn up, attack fails.
GeneralHankerchief N3: Attacked by several attackers, but survives by luck.
Glenn N1: Protected by a lone pretzel vendor.
Glenn N2: Protected by a lone gunman.
Kagemusha N6: Attacked by 2 gunmen, protected by a lone secretive waiter.
Proletariat N4: Attacked by weatherballoon mafia, somebody cuts the ropes to save her.
Proletariat N4: Attacked by Stacci, protected by lone car driver
Proletariat N5: Attacked by a single St. Michael man, defended by cloaked and masked figure and a townie protection group of 4 people
Proletariat N6: Attacked by a lone syringe armed attacker, protected by masked figure
Proletariat N7: Attacked by snake thrower, protected by snake catcher.
Sasaki N5: Pushed into road by lone attacker, who's partner doesn't show up to run him over. Attack fails.
Sasaki N7: Protected by lone car replacer
Taka N2: Survives by amazing luck
Tran N5: Attacked by two, but it's not enough, he escapes through an uncovered exit. Attack fails.
Tran N7: Attacked by JimBob's vigilante group, survives by luck
TinCow N7: Attacked by lone assasin (Playing card man), survives by luck?
TwilightBlade N4: Attacked by two car drivers, but not enough, one alley is uncovered. Attack fails.
TwilightBlade N5: Attacked by three people, but not enough, the back of the truck is uncovered. Attack fails.
Xdeathfire N1: Attacked by lone gunman, this isn't enough, the attack fails.
So, what can we conclude from all this. Firstly, townie protection groups aren't doing so well, with only one successful protection, which was covered anyway.
Secondly, we have 11 individual protections. However, as Ironside pointed out, we seem to have seen only our first surgeon protection last night.
This means that either we have a lot of doctors, who are getting one or two protections each, or we have some Luca's in the equation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus
The interesting part is Prole's protectors. Of the 11 individual protections, 5 have been protecting prole.
Now it seems to me this can only be one individual protecting her. It would be a remarkable coincidence if three doctors had been sharing her protection duty, all of them avoiding becoming a surgeon.
And yet, prole's protector clearly is not a surgeon. In the last protection, he reaches out and grabs a snake, but instead of throwing it at the attacker (or doing anything which might threaten the attacker) he simply ties the dead snake to a locked door.
I submit therefore that Prole must be protected by a Luca, which makes her a Don. Perhaps the FBI agent could check this out?
Other things to note. We have a lot of people surviving by luck. Some of them have confirmed roles, and are not Dons. Hence surviving an attack by luck is not enough to make a man suspicious. (This didn't stop Sigurd leaping on this to divert attention away from himself).
EDIT: spelling
I know you're limited in what you can say now dead :sad3: but I can't figure out what you mean by that connection, he told you something then decided to kill you afterwards for knowing it? or he/you then told someone else the information and were killed because someone else knew you knew.. ~:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
Vote:Sigurd
on overall weight of evidence (Drisos) and not because I trust all JimBob's contacts too much
speaking of which JimBob are you ever going to tell town what sources those results come from? Not asking for names just type of source... Detective A, FBI detective B, inspired guesswork (see TinCow on TP), or results kindly supplied by Sasaki from his trusty Made.... ?
Also, if gibsong is a known made gangster, why not try for a double lynch? If the mafia screw it up, it doesn't really matter. A dead made is a good to the town (if not better) as a dead don.
Unvote: Sigurd
Vote: gibsong
Using the last posted tally:
Sigurd - 10 (Sasaki, Kage, shlin, sarathos, CA, Joe Monks, True Praetorian, TinCow, Warluster, Makanyane)
Proletatriat - 3 (CR, EMFM, Elite Ferret)
gibsong - 1 (Myrddraal)
Tran - 1 (Little Grizzly)
TinCow - 1 (Sigurd)
Abstain - 3 (Haudegen, Ironside, Twilightblade)