StarWars: Return of the Sith [Concluded]

I'm not buying the case on Subotan for the lynch. I think we should go ahead with this lynch; I'm suspicious of why people like it. Sure, the scan of Subo is not bulletproof, but a block probably be enough to find out whether or not he is in fact the sith.

Subotan, honestly I don't agree with much of ATPG's case against you. He's reading a lot of stuff into your posts that I am not seeing. That said, I voted for you just to see your reaction. That last post of yours was very polished... too polished. It looks to me like you spent a lot of time tweaking it to get it just right. An innocent reply is a spontaneous reply, not one that took a long time to compose.

There's also this interesting post by you:

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Originally Posted by Subotan

@Tincow

Take a look at how Barrison was killed

Lightning is a force ability that can be learned by knights, correct? In that case, we could be looking at some kind of initiation process for an apprentice, or it might be a Jedi Vig kill.

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There are two problems with this post. First, you were trying to suggest that a night kill where the killer had amber eyes and used a red lightsaber was not Sith. Second, you say that Force Lightning is a Jedi Knight ability. I just searched the entire thread for information on Force Lightning, and I did not see ANY posts which mentioned what rank could use it. There is no reason why you should have thought it was a Jedi Knight ability, so why did you say that?

Subotan, look at your ESP:

Subotan voted for:

Lord Winter- got WOGed
Beskar- Got killed
ATPG- nearly lynched several times
AVSM- got WOGed, replacement got murdered.
Beskar- Killed
AVSM- got WOGed, replacement got murdered.
Thermal- lynched
Joooray- murdered
Greyblades- Lynched
Autolycus- Lynched
pevergreen- close to being lynched before and recently.
WhiteEyes- Lynched
Johnhughthom- nearly lynched recently.
Centurion1- looks like he's toast....

The force is strong with you. The dark side I sense in you.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Difficult to read? And why is that? Is that because you have some power that protects you from investigations, Subotan? Why would he have a hard time reading you correctly. Can you shed some light on that?

Niklas' result was more conclusive. But if you have a protection from investigation, then yours will not be conclusive.

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<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
I do not have a protection from investigation because I am not Sith. I don’t know how I can make this more clear to you.
<o:p></o:p>

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

A townie has no knowledge of who will be murdered at night.

A mafia has an idea who he will murder at night. Over the course of the game, the mafioso will have subconsciously revealed that they, apparently, have ESP. Those who they vote for tend to end up dead, unless that person is likely to be lynched. Usually, a mafioso murders those who don't seem likely to be lynched, or those who are apparently important townie roles. The reason is, you don't want to leave alive a person you've been accusing and isn't likely to be lynched. Eventually they will vote for you.

Your voting pattern to date indicates that you have ESP.

Not only have you been completely off the mark regarding who is or isn't scummy, but you've also given very bad advice and you've also been able to predict who lives and who dies.

Everything is proceeding as you have foreseen, yes? Your dark side is showing.

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<o:p></o:p>
Of the votes which you mentioned in your posts, half of those who died died due to town lynch. The other half are still alive. Where are you getting this from?
<o:p></o:p>

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Do you seriously expect me to consider myself a real suspect? Others may, and they may block me to satisfy those fantasies. But I am not delusional

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I wasn’t saying that. I was just confused as to why you think offering opinions on what the town should do was a scum-tell.<o:p></o:p>
Class now, I’ll post more later.<o:p></o:p>

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Of the votes which you mentioned in your posts, half of those who died died due to town lynch. The other half are still alive. Where are you getting this from?

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If I were to examine the voting patterns of townies, they would have voted for many of the people still alive right now. Because they don't know who will get murdered. They don't know who the Sith are. They don't know who will survive and who will not survive. But the mafia do know.

The mafia sees what townies cannot: which is what the mafia is thinking.

Askthepizzaguy
Centurion1
Choxorn
Diamondeye
johnhughthom
pevergreen
Psychonaut
splitpersonality
Subotan
TinCow

These are the remaining living players. Should I examine their voting record, how many of them do you think would have voted for players like Psychonaut, Diamondeye, or Tincow? There's a reason for that. They don't know that such players would still be around, still be alive, to vote for them. And, they also don't care. I can vote for Tincow and I am not concerned about him voting me to death later. However, if you are mafia and you vote for Tincow, eventually you have to deal with Tincow. Because you're nervous about keeping someone alive that you have accused.

But what I see in your voting pattern is that you seem to know who won't be alive at the end of the game. Because you have it in your list of priorities to lynch or murder certain people, to eliminate certain threats. Obviously there's less need to murder someone you haven't voted for and who isn't accusing you. Someone you are working with, and someone who perhaps shares your viewpoint. Someone you've been gaining favor with, like Diamondeye. Obviously you don't need to murder him, he's CLEARED you.

And you seem to know who will end up dead. I had no idea Tincow would still be alive. I had no idea Diamondeye or Psychonaut would still be alive. Many others had no idea. So, they were legitimate suspects. And we voted for them.

You, on the other hand, knew who would live and who would die. Your votes predict who ends up dead. (or nearly such... close votes like ATPG and pevergreen nearly got them lynched)

You have mafia ESP, Subotan.

pevergreen wonders why ATPG refers to himself in third person.

pevergreen thinks ATPG may be coming down with something he caught from this man:

https://img691.imageshack.us/img691/458/therocki.jpg

pever, if your'e the Sith Lord, I'll crown you Darth Lulz :laugh4:

Askthepizzaguy always speaks in the third person when he is laying the smacketh down.

You sound convincing, ATPG.

I think I'm going with the unvote; vote: Subotan, then, in fact. Cent's too inactive for me to think of him as super scummy anyway.

It will be helpful to look at more investigation results....if we have any.
Right now we have only 3 (Subotan, Niklas, Psychonaut) and all all three are different.


@ Subotan - Do you have the ability to hide your force powers? What other abilities do you have?

till he answers,
unvote: Centurion, vote: Subotan

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Originally Posted by atheotes

It will be helpful to look at more investigation results....if we have any.
Right now we have only 3 (Subotan, Niklas, Psychonaut) and all all three are different.

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:yes: If anyone has any of Chaotix's results, please post them.

Before I go to bed. ATPG, fantastic analysis. :bow:

unvote: Centurion, vote: Subotan

What time does thiks phase end

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Askthepizzaguy always speaks in the third person when he is laying the smacketh down.

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:laugh4:

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Originally Posted by TinCow

There are two problems with this post. First, you were trying to suggest that a night kill where the killer had amber eyes and used a red lightsaber was not Sith. Second, you say that Force Lightning is a Jedi Knight ability. I just searched the entire thread for information on Force Lightning, and I did not see ANY posts which mentioned what rank could use it. There is no reason why you should have thought it was a Jedi Knight ability, so why did you say that?

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Interesting, I'll see if Subo replies before deciding whether to change my vote. Although you've had time to answer...

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

If I were to examine the voting patterns of townies, they would have voted for many of the people still alive right now. Because they don't know who will get murdered. They don't know who the Sith are. They don't know who will survive and who will not survive. But the mafia do know

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That is such a paranoid and unfounded allegation. Seeing as only 1/4 of all people who signed up are now alive, 5/14 of my votes still being alive isn't exactly evidence of some Grand Master Plan.

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Originally Posted by Diamondeye

You sound convincing, ATPG.

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There is a direct correlation between the length of posts and the gullibility of their readers.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Subotan, honestly I don't agree with much of ATPG's case against you. He's reading a lot of stuff into your posts that I am not seeing. That said, I voted for you just to see your reaction. That last post of yours was very polished... too polished. It looks to me like you spent a lot of time tweaking it to get it just right. An innocent reply is a spontaneous reply, not one that took a long time to compose.

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I admit, I did spend a lot of time polishing it. Rolling your head on the keyboard as a defence against Pizza is not a good strategy to keep yourself from being lynched.

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There are two problems with this post. First, you were trying to suggest that a night kill where the killer had amber eyes and used a red lightsaber was not Sith. Second, you say that Force Lightning is a Jedi Knight ability. I just searched the entire thread for information on Force Lightning, and I did not see ANY posts which mentioned what rank could use it. There is no reason why you should have thought it was a Jedi Knight ability, so why did you say that?

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I skim read that write-up, and missed the bit about the eyes. I check write-ups in the 5 minute break before lessons I have in the morning, so...

I didn't know who used it. I figured that all the Masters were confirmed pro-town, so for my theory to stack up it had to have been one of the Knights. Of course, now it seems silly, but I was just putting the possibility out there.

unvote; vote: Cent1

I'm on the fence here, so I'm going with the unscanned one, for what it's worth.

@Subotan:

Explain why you voted for autolycus, then voted for pever, on the round Niklas slipped away. Why did you make those votes? Why did you not vote the next round?

Explain all of your votes/HoS' since then. Why do you not? Here, let's take them one at a time.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Lord Winter- Is an easy target, because he won't respond. There's no danger in voting him and he won't retaliate. Becomes choxorn who is quiet enough to not be a threat to you, and who rarely votes.
Beskar- You were only too happy to bandwagon him.

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Beskar : 15 (Andres, ATPG, auto, Chaotix, Diamondeye, GH, Methos, Niklas, pever, Renata, Sasaki, Secura, Subotan, Yaropolk, Yaseikhaan)

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ATPG- wagon wagon wagon.... then right afterward, you complain about people "swooping in" to vote without reason. It's not consistent.

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Askthepizzaguy: 4 (ACIN, Sasaki, Subotan, TinCow)

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AVSM- Another easy target. No danger, no retaliation.

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A Very Super Market: 1 (Subotan)

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Beskar- Here, you're still riding the anti-Dooku sentiment to avoid having to make a controversial vote. He's dead by now, by murder.

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Beskar: 3 (pever, Subotan, Yaseikhaan)

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AVSM- Sheer lazy. YLC who replaced him is dead. More of that same wagoning.

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A Very Super Market: 6 (Diamondeye, Greyblades, Kage, Niklas, Psycho, Subotan)

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Thermal- Who ended up lynched. No muss, no fuss. No retaliation.

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Thermal Mercury: 6 (ATPG, autolycus, Chaotix, GH, Greyblades, Subotan)

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Joooray- Who ended up murdered. Another person you found scummy is silenced. What was your reason for that bizarre HoS, anyway?
Greyblades- Lynched of course. Can't vote you back, now that he is dead.

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Greyblades: 5 (Diana, johnhugh, Secura, Subotan, TinCow)

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Autolycus- EXPLAIN this vote. Of course he later winds up both dead and innocent.
pevergreen- EXPLAIN this vote. This is the one that spares Niklas. What were your reasons? Why didn't you follow up?
Of those, Renata, White Eyes are dead. Centurion1 is as good as dead. John is proven innocent. That leaves you as the only other person who seemingly intentionally spared Niklas.
WHY did you vote for pevergreen? Why did you leave it on him?

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Niklas: 5 (atheotes, autolycus, Diana, Split, TinCow)
pevergreen: 5 (Centurion, johnhugh, Renata, Subotan, WE:D)

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No vote when Niklas gets lynched.

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Not voting: 7 (atheotes, AVSM, Centurion1, johnhugh, split, Subotan, WE:D)

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WhiteEyes- Lynched of course. He's a nice soft target to go after.

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White_Eyes:D: 6 (autolycus, Choxorn, Diamondeye, Renata, Subotan, YLC)

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Johnhughthom- nearly lynched recently, until he was found innocent by being blocked, I believe.
Centurion1- looks like he's toast....

Of those alive, you voted for: (underlined)

Askthepizzaguy- I'm only alive because there's been strong sentiment all game to lynch me "maybe next round... let's block him... let's investigate him" which wastes time. Plus I am susceptible to the dark side, so if you ever needed an ally, here I am. But I'm too much lynchbait for you. What a shame.

Centurion1- Notice how you only ever found him scummy when others did? Once he's dead, he's one less vote for you to worry about. He's practically dead already.

Choxorn- You voted for Lord Winter, he wasn't choxorn at the time. He got WOG'ed so obviously that was a bad vote, and no realistic way you can vote for choxorn now. He's also been too inactive to warrant your attention.

Diamondeye- He cleared you (with an inconclusive investigation) He's your bestest buddy right now. Now, he's innocent, but as long as he's directing the vote elsewhere, you don't mind him alive.

johnhughthom- You voted for him before. Well he seems innocent now. He's not as aggressive with his vote, so he's not been a priority.

pevergreen- easy punching bag. You still have yet to explain why you voted him on the Niklas tie. He's easy lynchbait, so that's why you haven't murdered him.

Psychonaut- Perhaps he's too dangerous to attack at night, and so long as he's not voting for you he's not a pressing issue.

splitpersonality- Stepped in for Jolt who dropped from the game. Less likely to be someone you can get a wagon on, and he voted for John, Niklas, nobody, nobody, and you recently, but with no supporting votes. Obviously not a huge threat to you.

TinCow- Another nest of vipers you've steered clear from all game. Perhaps because TinCow's been focused on others, mentioning you here and there but never putting too much pressure on you.


When I add that with who you did vote for who is now deceased, the pattern is very clear. You're an opportunist, and those you vote for wind up dead by the lynch or the murder. Those who remain have very good reasons why they aren't dead yet. Their survival provides cover for you, or in the case of John, until recently he was able to provide cover for you, and in the case of pevergreen, he's tempting lynchbait, and in the case of me, you know that I will continue to attract votes and blocks and investigations off of you. Besides, why would you kill someone as tempting as a Sith recruitable?

The dark side is strong with you, Subotan. You need to go back and respond to the case against you. Your defense was measured, it appeals to pity, and avoids all of the harder questions to answer. That investigation result would not pass the sniff test in any other game, but here you cling to it as if it proves something, in a game where we KNOW there are powers which mess with investigation results.

:laugh4: It's absurd to use that result as a defense, especially when IMO it points more towards your guilt than anything else.

nothing to see here... yet

((Do we have any kind of tally? We need to make sure Niklas doesn't tie it))

I haven't read that carefully so take this with a grain of salt, but TinCow's bit about gender is way better than the ESP stuff.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

I haven't read that carefully so take this with a grain of salt, but TinCow's bit about gender is way better than the ESP stuff.

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Yeah, hold onto that for a moment... may have made an error.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

nothing to see here... yet

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Copied and saved, let me know when you want it back :wink:

At least people are paying attention to my rantings now.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

I haven't read that carefully so take this with a grain of salt, but TinCow's bit about gender is way better than the ESP stuff.

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I am not voting for Subotan based on the ESP stuff... just based on his investigation result and the fact that he has not answered me.

I suggest everyone take a look at TinCow's lengthy analysis of gender and nightkills :p

I saw Tincow's case and it is perhaps the only thing that will move me off of Subotan.

What was the error?

Ok, here's what I posted in the edited post above:

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I've been combing through the thread today, trying to put together the evidence. I spent a while reading the write-ups, and noticed that Sigurd really is giving signatures to the Sith killers. There was the lightsaber killer (Niklas) and the Amber Eyes killer, who is still at large. I took a look at Niklas' cover role (Den Siva) and his Sith role (Darth Nihl), and noticed something interesting... they're both the same gender and species: Male Nagai.

At that point, I started trying to identify the Amber Eyes killer. While doing so I ran across Darth Talon. Not only does Darth Talon have yellow eyes, like our killer, she was the partner of Darth Nihl. Both of them were the assistants of Darth Krayt, and they were called Krayt's Hands. Note the gender and race of Darth Talon: Twi'lek Female.

Now, take a look at our list of remaining players and their admitted roles:

TinCow (Belth Allusis)
Psychonaut (Obi-wan)
johnhughthom (Anakin Skywalker)
Diamondeye (Qui-gon)Re
Choxorn (?)
splitpersonality (Sifo-Dyas)
Askthepizzaguy (Nomi Sunrider)
pevergreen (Kyp Durron)
Subotan (Streen)
Centurion1 (Mas Amedda)

There is a grand total of ONE Twi'lek Female in that list: Centurion1 (Mas Amedda). While I cannot find Choxorn's role, he is a replacement player and unlikely to have been a starting Sith for that reason. Since Centurion1 is a major suspect anyway, this is enough to push me over the edge.

Unvote; Vote: Centurion1

I recommend that he be lynched today. Subotan is at least talking and defending himself, we can work with that and block him tonight. Centurion1 is unhelpful and doesn't participate in the discussion. Get rid of him first.

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The reason I ID'd Centurion1 as a Twi'lek was because he said he was one. Unfortunately, he's wrong about himself... Mas Amedda is actually a Male Chagrian. So, my above analysis is not correct.

However, this raises another interesting question... why did he think he was a Twi'lek? Perhaps because that's the race of his Sith role? Another thing to note... if gender really does have something to do with it, there's only one female left in this game: ATPG (Nomi Sunrider).

Sorry if this wasn't as strong as I originally thought it was... my mistake for posting it slightly faster than I should have. Regardless, I still think Cent is a better lynch here than Subotan.

Unvote; Vote: Centurion1

It certainly has it's charm. I especially like the part where he claimed he was a Twi'lek and that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Make sure Subotan is blocked though, just in case.

unvote, vote: Centurion1

That's even better.

-edit-

Pizza. Wasn't I ahead of you after Shadow Fort? Did you make a thread in the spartan total war forum and post in it 500 times or something?

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Pizza. Wasn't I ahead of you after Shadow Fort? Did you make a thread in the spartan total war forum and post in it 500 times or something?

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No, I am afraid Subotan is to blame, once again.

C-3PO: This is all YOUR fault!

He hosted the Haiku Mafia, where I was only allowed to post in Haikus.... one per post max. it's really hard to make an intelligent case on someone with such post restrictions, and you saw a lot of people (not just myself) quintuple/sextuple/nonuple posting.

I didn't earn any of those posts. It is my secret shame. That and being the Sith lord, of course.