The Royal Council

Therapontigonos rises slowly and speaks

I see wisdom in the Basileus' proposal regarding our Ptolemaioi friends. I would, however, beg a small clarification: is the 2500 mnai to be paid each season as a regular tribute or perhaps in small installments amounting to 2500 in total? Regardless of the answer, I second Edict 3.2.

As for the second proposal, I see good intentions but unfortunately no wisdom. I believe that any campaign against the "Kingdom" of Pontus must be quick and devistating - amounting to no less than the entire destruction of the royal house. If we allow them to live, they will assuredly rise up one day and attack us in a vulnerable area. I am not sympathetic to their cause and see no reason why we should not take the lands outright.

he sits and awaits a response from the council

Fresh and rested since his campaigning with the Lydian Army Panaitolos Ankyrikos arrives quite late attempting to take his seat directly and unnoticed

He stands, "Forgive me Great Basileus and Mighty Chancellor for my late arrival but the ride from our station was not easy going. I would like to first second both edicts 3.1 & 3.2 and I think my Commander and I would be honored to send our men into battle with Pontus should it become necessary. While we are still finishing up minor retraining and regrouping after taking Halikarnassos, I know full well the men are in good form and will do their duty fit. That is all"

The General sits and rests his head

-Edit- I would also like to report that to due to a busy week he will be having, Chaotix (Theodotas Termessou Pisidikes) will be leaving the Lydian Army in my stead and I am to march for Nikaia

Achaios Syriakos rises

"Strategos of the Arche, i would like to second edicts 3.2 and 3.3, i see the reason behind my esteemed colleagues apprehension however and would like to propose that we should keep an army local to the pontic lands just in case they decide to rise against us once more."

I'd just like to congradulate prince sarpedon on an effective term

*bows towards him*


Edict 3.2, though the terms are generous, they may be refused, and we should show the world that we can strike when and where we choose, therefore I propose

Edict 3.4 if the terms in edict 3.2 are offered and refused, a seaborn raid on either Alexandria or Cyrene may take place, what happens to the city is in the hands of the conquering general
then, simmilar terms will be offered again to the Ptolemaioi, at the chancallor's discretion.

"Cunobelinus proposed a similar edict to that. In his place I second Edict 3.4.
This should take a backseat to the Pontic campaign. The logistics of a amphibious assault is horrendous. More warships are needed to insure safe transit. Pontic gold will pay the cost nicely."
The man stares into the Mysikes' eyes
"The young Mysikes brother should be aware that what happened in Judea was a traitor to the Ptolemies. The Traitor was caught and executed by Arrhenides Gedrosinaos Cunobelinus himself."

Basileus, Strategoi,

I would first like to congratulate Chancellor Sarpedon on his term, and announce that I will be running for chancellor this term. Second, I thank Basileus Antiochos for the confidence placed in me in governing the nomad frontier, and announce that I am considering qualified strategoi for a position as my aid in the governing of the Satrapy of Parthava. And finally, I would like to second Edict 3.3.

I would also consider seconding Ed. 3.4 if the terms would be altered to exclude the possible sacking of Alexandria. Kyrene or perhaps Memphis could be our target instead. I would hesitate to take Alexandria at this time, as we would have to hold the city, sacking it would destroy our legitimacy and reputation in the wider world. We are not in a position that attempting to hold Alexandria at this time would leave us in any other position than dangerously overextended.

Achaios agan rises

Nephew!

Please forgive my ignorance, i would also like to congratulate you on your term as chancellor and i hope that you will use the managerial skills you have exhibited during your duty when you do finally become Basileus, even though I hope not to live to see that day.

I would also like to suggest that I do not believe that Alexandria is a viable target for us to attack unless it is to be held for the good of the Arche, we would be no better than barbaroi if we were to sack a centre of learning such as this.

With that he sits down and glances across at his brother and hoping he did not take offence at the mention of his death

Thank you, Achaios, that's exactly what I was thinking. However, the Ptolemaioi do need to be reminded that snubbing our generosity carries penalties, to that end, I propose Edict 3.5

if the terms in edict 3.2 are offered and refused, a seaborn raid on either Memphis or Cyrene may take place, what happens to the city is in the hands of the conquering general
then, similar terms will be offered again to the Ptolemaioi, at the chancellor's discretion. And that the independent city of Petra be taken from the Eleutheroi (or the Ptolemies if they are the current owner) to use as a support base for any raid on Memphis, if we have the finances to employ any of the leftover troops from the liberation of Hierosolyma, then those men should be re-enlisted for that task.

Supressing a sigh, Mikithion rose from his seat.

"I second Edict 3.5. While the Ptolemaios and his barbaroi ilk indeed do need to be brought to realization who are the true heirs of Alexandros, Alexandria is not a city to be sacked during a sea raid if we are to establish the Arche as the uncontested, rightful heir of Alexandros as She should be."

That said, the Hellene dropped back on his seat, seemingly interesting himself with the back of his hand.

i would aldo like to second Edict 3.5, and let us hope that ptolemy will learn some humility in the event of hierosylima being added to our glorious empire

Sarpedon stands up.

"Friends, strategoi... and, of course, uncle. Thank you all for your recognition. It's, as always, good to know that the horse wasn't lifted in front of a blind man's eyes!" Sarpedon lets loose a short laugh.

"But we went over the Alexandria business last session, and when it got to the vote, it didn't pass. This was because sacking it was deemed inappropriate - and now we have the same proposal again? Is it the hope of those for it to propose it ad nausem until we tire and accept it just to save us from hearing about it again?

If it isn't changed so that it is not to be sacked, only taken, you can count on my vote against it."

OOC:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rule 3.9

The Chancellor can use 'Force Diplomacy' only if an Edict have passed with a diplomatic offer to another faction.

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This means that if we create an Edict with correct diplomatic proposal then the Chancellor can use FD to make the AI accept the deal. However, this is just an option for the Chancellor and he does not have to use it.

"We shall not sack it, but we can loot some of the buildings we have no use for. We should have a few objectives for it. Do not destroy any schools or places of learning and knowledge. Secure Alexandros' tomb, and transport it back to Babylon"

the edict I proposed makes no mention of the word "sack"

the scribes did note this most carefully, if it is sacked, then blame whoever commanded the army, not the edict, which only demands a raid take place if peace terms are refused.

"I realize that, but the problem still remains. In the last council session we decided that sacking Alexandreia was out of the question. With that in mind, how can we then see your proposal, that would leave the option of sacking it open to the commanding strategos, as anything else than an attempt to evade this fact?

If that is not your intent, then I suggest you make the appropriate adjustments to your edict."

Lykikos rises from his seat

"My friend Timarchos, it seems I was wrong about you. I thought you a blustering fool who was only useful at the head of an army, I didn't think you had the subtlety to try to sneak an edict through allowing the sacking of Alexandriea. I'm sure most of us in this room remember you were one of the most vocal in trying to push through that despicable edict last time around. Unfortunately you weren't quite smart enough it seems."
"And Euripides, don't think you have fooled the rest of us in this room. Your master may well have executed the man involved in your fiasco of a sabotage attempt, but it was more likely for his incompetence than because he was a traitor."
"Finally, I would respectfully ask young Sarpedon that he considers other in the room before he makes his little jokes."

The blind man sits

"Beware your words, lest you make an enemy you cannot win against. (OOC- OOPS this is an edit) You are nothing but a two-faced coward. You cannot keep your own word. Why would you question reputable men's word of honour. Young one think before you act. Think before you leave your even leave your house. . Do not make promises you cannot keep, lest you make powerful enemies."

Sarpedon stands up.

"My apologies, Lykikos. It was just a saying that flew into me. All I meant by it was that it's always good to know that you're working for a crowd that can appreciate what you do. I meant no disrespect to you or any other people with your..." Sarpedon made a short pause, weighing his words. "misfortune."

Sarpedon makes a short nod with his head and sits down again.

Lykikos rises to reply to Sarpedon

I realise your words were not intended to cause offence Sarpedon, forgive me, I am still coming to terms with my "misfortune."
If I may give you some advice though, don't spend too much time seeking praise for the work you do, lest the work suffer. You are in the game of politics, sometimes not being criticised is as close to praise as you get. Still I hope you realise I personally appreciate your efforts for the Arche, I also hope you realise my edict last time out was not intended as a criticism of you in any way. You shouldn't fear, I have no intention of proposing anything similar this time around. I am looking to lead a quiet, stress-free life.

The Babylonian sits once again

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

By the way Celtic_Punk, was your post aimed at me? A bit of mistaken identity if it was.

Attalos Pergamou Mysiakes arrives in the council chamber. Seeing that the council has already started, he speaks with one of the scribes and obtains a copy of the council minutes. After sitting and reading over them, he stands to speak.

I would be wary ofmaking an enemy of Timarchos. If all goes as planned, he will be King of the Jews soon. That said, I will admit that I disagree with him. Alexandria is not a target for a raid, but the Ptolemaioi do need to be taught a lesson. To this end, I will pledge my support for edict 3.5. I realize that no more seconds are required for it, but considering its similarity to edict 3.4, I would urge the strategoi to choose edict 3.5 instead.

Having Pontos against Hayasdan as our vassal is a dangerous proposition, to say the least. And yet... we cannot afford any other path shoud the war with the Ptolemaioi . Here is an edict that will, no doubt, be a close vote.

Of course, none of this matters should edict 3.2's proposal work. It will make edicts 3.4 and 3.5 totally irrelevant, and then there will no longer be any need for Pontos to become a vassal, as our forces tied up in the south will suddenly be freer, as there will not only be peace in the region, but also the defense will be concentrated in the hands of the King of the Jews. This will allow us not only extra forces, but also more time to succesfully, and permanantly, occupy Pontos. I only wish that there was a way to tell what the Ptolemaioi will respond to our piece offer before we vote on edict 3.3. To this end, I propose edict 3.6:

In the event of the passage of edict 3.2, the vote on edict 3.3 will be postponed until after the offer of peace has been either accepted or rejected by the Ptolemaioi.

Attalos sits, wondering what the reaction to his edict will be.

General Ankyrikos rises

I must not disagree, but only question Attalos in Edict 3.6.I do worry that should the Ptolemaioi reject our peace offering, the edict will be useless should it pass. We must then look to the factor of taking Hierosolyma. Capturing this city may anger the Ptolemaioi and peace could be impossible. If the peace does not come, then we will once more be kept on our toes with a dangerous northern border so it would be dangerous to postpone the voting on Edict 3.3. Lastly, should the worst happen, we must take note that we may end up in a two front war that could very possible bring us to the edge.

So once again i am neither opposed or for Edict 3.6, but we should discuss such actions further.

Euripedes stands up "Do not confuse yourselves. This is a ceasefire, not a peace offering. Fighting will continue, bothsides will know that. This is just to achieve a much needed lull in the fighting, which we need to deal with the Pontic traitors."
Euripedes clears his throat.
"May I take this time now to clarify misconceptions about this proposed raid... First of all, Lykikos there is no backstage consortment between Cunobelinus and Timarchos regarding the raid. Secondly We cannot stop our soldiers from looting houses and and such. You who are so eager to not damage Alexandria in any way have ABSOLUTELY no experience in battle or siegewarfare. Sieges are messy things. There will be collateral damage. Our soldiers will loot houses, temples, shops, and bodies. We can however make sure our soldiers know the penalty for looting certain things. They are entitled to booty. That is how war is waged. In all my years, that is how war has been waged, and probably will continue to be waged for eternity. Thirdly, You nay-sayers must also understand why we arrange such a raid. This is a penalty for refusing our generous ceasefire offer. What point would it be to just take the city, and leave it as is without disrupting their inner workings?! We should loot their markets, courts, barracks, and Palace! We must find the tomb of the Great man himself and bring him back to his rightful resting place in the hanging gardens. There is no sinister plan to destroy such a wondrous place of learning! most of the fighting will be outside the academic sector anyhow! You men also must remind yourselves of the spoils to be obtained in Alexandria. KNOWLEDGE! FOUNTAINS OF KNOWLEDGE! The technology we will bring back will push our nation's development and advancement infront of all others. Alexandria will no longer be the centre of learning! Selukia, or Antioch will replace her! We can bring those scrolls back to our lands for safety and study. Academics from all four corners will flock to our empire our cities to learn and spread their intellect. So you see, nay-sayers, This runs deeper than just some petty raid. This marks the advancement of our Arche! If you vote nay on Edict 3.4 you say nay to the greatness of Selukeia! This is treason." The old man eases down into his seat, takes a sip of water, and looks at Sarpedon, hoping for his support.

Cadeyrn quickly stands up meaning to speak, but is stopped by Sarpedon before he can start, who stands up to speak instead.

"Euripedes, you may not want to be so rash to call people ignorant about war or even worse, call us out for treason. You may make powerful enemies yourself...

But for the brunt of your speech, you would have it seem impossible to take a city without sacking it. That is just silly. But I would hope that the strategos who is appointed to lead the army would have control over his men at least to the degree to make them constrain themselves. If you cannot, then perhaps you're not qualified to lead? Oh, and before you say it, do note that I'm aware that some are always likely to disobey such orders - but that number can be reduced, and those who do can be punished. Especially when it's such a city as Alexandreia - the soldiers know the meaning of that place.

If I may have my say, and I fancy that I do, the populace of Alexandreia should be left untouched. The buildings, including the markets and courts, should be left untouched, as destroying these would be harmful to the inhabitants. The palace however I think is okay to be raided, but only if it can be guaranteed that no damage will be done to the building itself. The barracks, the stables, and the other buildings that is there to raise an army for the Ptolemies, should be raided, and then destroyed. This is not harmful to the inhabitants, for once we leave, they will fall back into the hands of the Ptolemies, who will send soldiers from other cities to keep them safe from bandits and alike.

But an outright sacking? No way. This I have made clear many times before that I will not support."

Not all of our soilders are greek though, in any case, do you really think anyone commanding a raid on Alexandria would sack it? knowing the councils thoughts on the matter?

oh, and a raid, and a sack, are two very diffrent things, the edict is to ensure peace follows in the south by holding one of their cities as a barganing chip, what use would it be if the city was destroyed and alexandros' body removed?
we wouldn't be able to give it to pig farmers if that happened

Given that Phanias Laodikeias Lydikes edict 3.5 is essentially mine with a diffrent target, and knowing some of you here regard that city far too highly after what happened to our other Alexandria that was in our hands, I hearby withdraw edict 3.4, instead I whole-heartedly second edict 3.5 and urge you all to pass it.



*timarchos looks at Polyxenidos Lykikos, scratch's his chin then mutters*

nah thats just cruel..

*he rubs his hand across his eye before continuing, at normal volume*

Lykikos..... I'm curious, has your blindness made you cynical and untrusting, or is it just your own insecurity about how useful you are now thats showing through?

Let's make one thing clear. Hierosolyma MUST be taken! There can't be no IF when we talk about conquering Hierosolyma! I did not promise to help the people in Ioudaia just so that we could say to them that we MIGHT help them against the Ptolemaioi! Those people there trusted me and you to liberate them from the shackles of Ptolemaioi!

I hereby declare that the time for proposing legislation has passed! Voting will begin shortly. There will be a two day period for voting. Voting will end at 21:00 GMT on Sunday, October 26th.

Since there was no one else running for Chancellor then Phanias Laodikeias Lydikes takes the position automatically. He was the only one who was interested of this position.

If there are any questions about your powers as a Chancellor then me or one of the Magistrates will always ready to help you Phanias.

"Phanias Lydikes, who gave you permission to raise a unit of akontistai in Ipsos? I do not recall ever giving those instructions."

My Apologies then,

I thought that I read somewhere that a unit of Akontistai were requested in Ipsos. Perhaps the messenger garbled the communication...

If you like, I can send an order for their disbandment.

P. L. Lydikes

"No, now when they're already raised, I think it's best to keep them. I was, after all, going to request a second akontistai unit from Sardis, since I don't want to bleed out all the soldiers from Ipsos. Now it would be a waste of mnai to disband and re-recruit, mnai that we don't have.

Just make sure it doesn't happen again."