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most of the new factions can't get a full range of units in custom/mp. It's odd, I'm not sure how the available units for each faction are specified, but then again I'm no modding expert. For example Volga Bulgars and cumans can get no units other than urban militia.
Well I can't play as any of the newer added factions such as the Papacy and the Golden Horde. That isn't such a big problem for me though as I am content with the factions available so I won't be troubling myself with it. The Custom Battle mode doesn't work, it let's me select the Factions but when I press Accept it just makes the confirm sound with no affect - it doesn't proceed to the other screens.
This could me all an error of my own as I read in the ReadMe that this is mod is only truly workable for the Viking Invasion expansion.Originally Posted by [b:
I don't have the Viking Invasion so https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/no...ns/gc-wall.gif.
Quote[/b] ]This Mod is for use with Medieval Total War with Viking Invasions expansion only.
For addittional Mongol Units, you could add the ones from Shogun.
Originally Posted by Beetlio:
I will add units for custom battle in the final version. They just need to be added in the unitprod. files, so it's not a bug. I was too bussy making the campain work ~;)
most of the new factions can't get a full range of units in custom/mp. It's odd, I'm not sure how the available units for each faction are specified, but then again I'm no modding expert. For example Volga Bulgars and cumans can get no units other than urban militia.
I have found another historically based unit that could be added to the mod if you like it or have room.
Dejma - Were militia soldiers from all over Malta that acted as the town defense against any raiding pirates or brigands. organised into units of about 600-800, during the more pirate active seasons of summer and autumn there was always some on gaurd, ready to light beacon fires to warn the rest of the town/city of any incoming attack and alert their fellow soldiers.
Basically the Dejma would be a fast hybrid sort of archer available to catholic powers only and restricted to the islands of Malta, Crete, Cyprus and Rhodes in all periods. I thought about having them buildable in Sardinia and Corsica too, but as they are mostly effective in the early period and Genoa owns these provinces they would make the Genoese uique unit, Genoese sailors, totally redundant. Although historically they were only called Dejma in Malta, the other islands all had similar sort of units to counter the threat of piracy. They would require a town militia and a bowyers workshop. I think they would be a worthy addition to these islands to actually give them some strategic value, as the islands do not have trade goods and have quite poor farming, when I play any version of MTW I usually just use them to maroon factions in so I dont have to worry about re-emergences. They offer fast hybrid sort of archers to catholic powers, something they cannot get anywhere else. However, both historically and for balance reasons they should have a fairly low defense (as when pirates were attacking, there was not much time to get all rigged up in armour!). The stats I have come up with below I am not sure about, but i tired to make them similar to trebizond archers.
Stats -
Move - fast infantry
Attack - 3
Defense - 0
Weapon - Short Bows
Morale - 3
Armour - none, but a small shield
Men per unit - 60
Unit Cost - 200 florins
Support Cost - 37 florins
EDIT - I forgot, maybe give them a valour bonus in Malta to make it more historically accurate. They will also be useful for any catholics that want to crusade, due to their lack of armour they wont get fatigued as easily in the desert.
I have lots of space for unit, nice unit. :jumping:
I think so ,too. Nice one ;) !
I ´have Downloaded the Mod right now, wasn't possible to get it earlier.
Very Nice changings!! I Love to Play the Bohemians! And the New Map is GEORGEOUS! =)
Will start Translating as soon as possible, just after I have played a while ;).
Greetings Teutonic
Originally Posted by Teutonic:
Thanks Teutonic :knight:
I think so ,too. Nice one ;) !
I ´have Downloaded the Mod right now, wasn't possible to get it earlier.
Very Nice changings!! I Love to Play the Bohemians! And the New Map is GEORGEOUS! =)
Will start Translating as soon as possible, just after I have played a while ;).
Greetings Teutonic
Im adding a lot of units and ajustments, so let me know when you start so that I can send you new versions of the files.
~:cheers:
hehe, sorry to spam your thread once again but I have a few more suggestions for faction unit variation. These ones are a bit less in depth than the previous ones, but anyway here it goes.
First of all, the crusader states cannot build order foot soldiers, I think that they should be able to.
Also, the Sicilians should be able to build Saracen Infantry. Historically, when the Normans took over Sicily they were quite tolerant of the Saracens living there, and allowed them to continue serving in the government/military. This would also be good in the fact that it gives the Sicilians a boost in early, when historically they were at the height of their power, but confer no extra benefit in high and late, when their power was dwindling.
Originally Posted by Armchair Athlete:
Your "spam" is no problem as long as it's good stuff ~;)
hehe, sorry to spam your thread once again but I have a few more suggestions for faction unit variation. These ones are a bit less in depth than the previous ones, but anyway here it goes.
Originally Posted by Armchair Athlete:
I agree. I have allready made crusader states have order foot soldiers, templar footknights and templar knights. They will be there in the final (or maybe in a patch soon ~:p )
First of all, the crusader states cannot build order foot soldiers, I think that they should be able to.
Originally Posted by Armchair Athlete:
It's no problem making the Sicilians build Saracen Infantry in early. I will just make an extra slot with Saracen Infantry. I still have room for new units.
Also, the Sicilians should be able to build Saracen Infantry. Historically, when the Normans took over Sicily they were quite tolerant of the Saracens living there, and allowed them to continue serving in the government/military. This would also be good in the fact that it gives the Sicilians a boost in early, when historically they were at the height of their power, but confer no extra benefit in high and late, when their power was dwindling.
~:cheers:
great work VH, looking forward to the final release. Any ETA? I also had a typo in the post about the Dejma, their price should be 300 florins not 200, as archers are 225 florins I dont think a better unit should be cheaper! Just found a new possible unit for the Novgorod/Volga Bulgarians.
Chernye Klobuki (Black Hoods) - primarily from a tribe known as the Berendi, the Black Hoods were fast cavalry lancers, used primarily as mercenaries by Novgorod and the Volga Bulgarians. They operated in a very similar way to the later Cossacks, and their main roles were rapid flanking of enemy forces and raiding/patrolling/harrassing.
This unit will mainly differentiate the unit rosters a bit for Novgorod compared to the Kievan Rus. The Volgars just get them because they did in history. They would basically be sort of like the Byzantine Lancers, fast and with a very good charge, but if they are caught out by armoured or elite troops they will be destroyed fairly quickly. Fairly low build requirements (maybe horse breeder and an inn)
Stats -
Move - fast cavalry
Charge - 8
Attack - 3
Defense - 2
Morale - 4
Armour - 1 plus a small shield
Cost - dont know, I'll leave that up to you, fairly cheap though
Support Costs- also dont know
Originally Posted by Armchair Athlete:
Nice unit :jumping: . I have added Dejma unit i my mod and they look cool. My ETA is about two weeks, becouse I don't have time to mod this weekend (Girls and stuff ~;) ).
great work VH, looking forward to the final release. Any ETA? I also had a typo in the post about the Dejma, their price should be 300 florins not 200, as archers are 225 florins I dont think a better unit should be cheaper! Just found a new possible unit for the Novgorod/Volga Bulgarians.
Chernye Klobuki (Black Hoods) - primarily from a tribe known as the Berendi, the Black Hoods were fast cavalry lancers, used primarily as mercenaries by Novgorod and the Volga Bulgarians. They operated in a very similar way to the later Cossacks, and their main roles were rapid flanking of enemy forces and raiding/patrolling/harrassing.
This unit will mainly differentiate the unit rosters a bit for Novgorod compared to the Kievan Rus. The Volgars just get them because they did in history. They would basically be sort of like the Byzantine Lancers, fast and with a very good charge, but if they are caught out by armoured or elite troops they will be destroyed fairly quickly. Fairly low build requirements (maybe horse breeder and an inn)
Stats -
Move - fast cavalry
Charge - 8
Attack - 3
Defense - 2
Morale - 4
Armour - 1 plus a small shield
Cost - dont know, I'll leave that up to you, fairly cheap though
Support Costs- also dont know
~:cheers:
Very good mod! I am loving all of the new factions, provinces etc! I am currently playing as the Norse, good fun ~:)
Originally Posted by Balin son of Fundin:
The Norse are cool, even as AI. They are allway very agressive ~:p
Very good mod! I am loving all of the new factions, provinces etc! I am currently playing as the Norse, good fun ~:)
Back again with some more unit suggestions (I am only on two days a week at university this semester, playing your mod and doing research for it are the only things keeping me sane at the moment ~:wacko: ). This time the Armenians, I have been searching for ages trying to find something on them and finally found some obscure Armenian academics homepage.
Naxarars - were the large landowning nobility in Armenia (comparable to Feudal lords in Europe). They acted as administrators and warriors, fighting on horseback as a well equiped heavy cavalry unit. Contact with the crusaders led them to adopt more western practices with regards to cavalry equipment.
This unit is pretty much summed up well by the Armenian Heavy Cavalry unit the Armenians get (as they are heir units). A name change is all that would be required.
Didebuls - were the minor nobility of both Armenia and Georgia, acted as an elite core of soldeirs for the Armenian army. They owned small amounts of land, and were comparable to the Knights of Europe.
I'll leave it up to you to determine stats and so forth for this unit if you include them, not sure what play style (fast cavalry, or infantry based?) you want the Armenians to be in your mod. They could be a cavalry unit, or they could be a small unit of good foot soldiers (like the dismounted knights Catholics get).
Azats - Azats (short for Azatagundkt hayoc) was the name given to the cavalry of Armenia. They were disciplined and effective in battle (although not very numerous). After the collapse of traditional Armenia and the exodus of Armenians to the kingdom of Cilicia (lesser Armenia), they often hired themselves out as mercenaries across the region, wandering from region to region.
Once again, I'll leave the workings of this unit up to you.
Although there is not much info on the make up of the bulk of theArmenian army anywhere, there are also vague references to the following units being used;
Armenian Archers, Caucasian mountaineers, Latin Auxillaries (posted that unit earlier), mercenary Qipchaq Turks, and an Armenian Militia 50,000 strong (unsure of the accuracy of this number) used by the Byzantines before being disbanded because they were worried about them rebelling (which did happen).
Originally Posted by Armchair Athlete:
It's good that I can keep you sane, he he ~D
Back again with some more unit suggestions (I am only on two days a week at university this semester, playing your mod and doing research for it are the only things keeping me sane at the moment ~:wacko: ). This time the Armenians, I have been searching for ages trying to find something on them and finally found some obscure Armenian academics homepage.
Originally Posted by Armchair Athlete:
Should they be like a armenian type of royal knights? Im thinking of adding a small royal armenian cav unit to help the armenian economy (not getting huge royal units) and allso help the turks.
Naxarars - were the large landowning nobility in Armenia (comparable to Feudal lords in Europe). They acted as administrators and warriors, fighting on horseback as a well equiped heavy cavalry unit. Contact with the crusaders led them to adopt more western practices with regards to cavalry equipment.
This unit is pretty much summed up well by the Armenian Heavy Cavalry unit the Armenians get (as they are heir units). A name change is all that would be required.
Originally Posted by Armchair Athlete:
They could maybe be like chivalric/feudal knights, but with a armenian twist.
Didebuls - were the minor nobility of both Armenia and Georgia, acted as an elite core of soldeirs for the Armenian army. They owned small amounts of land, and were comparable to the Knights of Europe.
I'll leave it up to you to determine stats and so forth for this unit if you include them, not sure what play style (fast cavalry, or infantry based?) you want the Armenians to be in your mod. They could be a cavalry unit, or they could be a small unit of good foot soldiers (like the dismounted knights Catholics get).
Originally Posted by Armchair Athlete:
There could be some good units to add here, good stuff. ~:p Thanks!
Azats - Azats (short for Azatagundkt hayoc) was the name given to the cavalry of Armenia. They were disciplined and effective in battle (although not very numerous). After the collapse of traditional Armenia and the exodus of Armenians to the kingdom of Cilicia (lesser Armenia), they often hired themselves out as mercenaries across the region, wandering from region to region.
Once again, I'll leave the workings of this unit up to you.
Although there is not much info on the make up of the bulk of theArmenian army anywhere, there are also vague references to the following units being used;
Armenian Archers, Caucasian mountaineers, mercenary Qipchaq Turks, and an Armenian Militia 50,000 strong (unsure of the accuracy of this number) used by the Byzantines before being disbanded because they were worried about them rebelling (which did happen).
Originally Posted by VikingHorde:
Yeah they could be. They were the major landowners and nobility anyway, so would make a good royal knight unit. Also good idea with strengthening the Armenian economy, whenever I play, the same thing always happens - Armenians start a war with the Turks and get annihilated within 30 turns. They just cant compete with the Turks ability to produce many units compared to their ability to produce units from only one.
Should they be like a armenian type of royal knights? Im thinking of adding a small royal armenian cav unit to help the armenian economy (not getting huge royal units) and allso help the turks.
OK, Burgundians now! Tell me when you have enough units for the mod, otherwise I will keep on going! Once again this is just a historically accurate unit that can be used, but doesn't have to be. They will just make their unit list a bit more varied compared to France and other Catholic factions.
Coustillier - Coustilliers were the light cavalry of the Burgundian army, armed with a Javelin, sword and a lance. They were capable Skirmishers, and despite the eventual defeat inflicted upon the Burgundians by the Swiss, the Coustilliers performed fairly well in battles.
This unit would be something like Spanish Jinettes but with a greater charge value (due to the Lance). Only buildable by the Burgundians of course. This would make them fairly powerful, so maybe you could limit their being built to only a couple of provinces (like Savoy and Burgundy or something).
Gendarmes were another important part of the Burgundian army, however in the game they are fairly useless, as Chivalric Knights are better in every way AND quicker to get and get a better dismounted unit! To fix this, possibly the Gendarmes should be able to be built straight away in Burgundy (just the pre-requisite buildings there, not fully teched up to fortress, kinda like how Mercia has a metalsmith but with no iron) and Gendarmes could get a valour bonus in Burgundy. They will still have worse charge and worse dismounted unit that the Chivalric knights, but they will at least have same attack and better defense.
Originally Posted by Armchair Athlete:
I still have space for another 15-20 units, theres still some work to be done. Good work on those units, they will make the Burgundy more fun to play.
OK, Burgundians now! Tell me when you have enough units for the mod, otherwise I will keep on going! Once again this is just a historically accurate unit that can be used, but doesn't have to be. They will just make their unit list a bit more varied compared to France and other Catholic factions.
Coustillier - Coustilliers were the light cavalry of the Burgundian army, armed with a Javelin, sword and a lance. They were capable Skirmishers, and despite the eventual defeat inflicted upon the Burgundians by the Swiss, the Coustilliers performed fairly well in battles.
This unit would be something like Spanish Jinettes but with a greater charge value (due to the Lance). Only buildable by the Burgundians of course. This would make them fairly powerful, so maybe you could limit their being built to only a couple of provinces (like Savoy and Burgundy or something).
Gendarmes were another important part of the Burgundian army, however in the game they are fairly useless, as Chivalric Knights are better in every way AND quicker to get and get a better dismounted unit! To fix this, possibly the Gendarmes should be able to be built straight away in Burgundy (just the pre-requisite buildings there, not fully teched up to fortress, kinda like how Mercia has a metalsmith but with no iron) and Gendarmes could get a valour bonus in Burgundy. They will still have worse charge and worse dismounted unit that the Chivalric knights, but they will at least have same attack and better defense.
Ok then, its getting kinda hard to find units now, at the moment I don't really want to suggest some units because they have been done in other mods, but its kind of a problem because they were so important for some factions (such as Norman Knights for the Sicilians). If you are OK with having some units that have already been done in other mods that are historically accurate then I can suggest them, however they can be changed so as to be fairly different to the already done ones, to give an example in BKB's mod he has included the Voi for the Novgorod, which were the tribal levies in the armies of the Rus (a step above peasants and Militia, but only just). According to several sources I have found (gotta love those obscure academics ~:) )they were historically used as spearmen and skirmishers. BKB has used them as spearmen, so maybe in your mod you could have them as skirmishers. That way, although sharing the same name as an already existing unit, they would be used in a significantly different way (all the units I have suggested so far have not been done in any other mods I have played and would be unique to yours). Anyway, its up to you. Of course I will continue looking for new units not done yet to include as well.
VikingHorde, will you be adding any Norman soldiery to the English? :knight: Norman Knights could use the early Royal Knights image. Or maybe replace Feudal Knights completely with Norman Knights?
Originally Posted by Armchair Athlete:
I have no problem adding them, becouse they will only share names. It's impossible to make two historycal correct mods without have alike units.
Ok then, its getting kinda hard to find units now, at the moment I don't really want to suggest some units because they have been done in other mods, but its kind of a problem because they were so important for some factions (such as Norman Knights for the Sicilians). If you are OK with having some units that have already been done in other mods that are historically accurate then I can suggest them, however they can be changed so as to be fairly different to the already done ones, to give an example in BKB's mod he has included the Voi for the Novgorod, which were the tribal levies in the armies of the Rus (a step above peasants and Militia, but only just). According to several sources I have found (gotta love those obscure academics ~:) )they were historically used as spearmen and skirmishers. BKB has used them as spearmen, so maybe in your mod you could have them as skirmishers. That way, although sharing the same name as an already existing unit, they would be used in a significantly different way (all the units I have suggested so far have not been done in any other mods I have played and would be unique to yours). Anyway, its up to you. Of course I will continue looking for new units not done yet to include as well.
Originally Posted by Despot of the English:
I think so. What stats would they have?
VikingHorde, will you be adding any Norman soldiery to the English? Norman Knights could use the early Royal Knights image. Or maybe replace Feudal Knights completely with Norman Knights?
How about this? ~:)
Norman Foot Knights: Charge 4 Attack 4 Defence 3 Armour 3 Morale 4 Cost 325 Support cost 45. Available Early (High too?) I favour a unit of 60 if possible.
Norman Knights: Charge 8 Attack 5 Defence 3 Armour 4 Morale 8 Cost 425 Support cost 105. Available Early (again not sure about High as well.) Very similiar to Feudal knights but with slightly better attack.
I suppose the French ought to have access to them as well ~;) .
Originally Posted by Despot of the English:
Nice, that means that the Sicilians, English and French get a new unit. Will this unit replace Royal/Feudal knights?
How about this? ~:)
Norman Foot Knights: Charge 4 Attack 4 Defence 3 Armour 3 Morale 4 Cost 325 Support cost 45. Available Early (High too?) I favour a unit of 60 if possible.
Norman Knights: Charge 8 Attack 5 Defence 3 Armour 4 Morale 8 Cost 425 Support cost 105. Available Early (again not sure about High as well.) Very similiar to Feudal knights but with slightly better attack.
I suppose the French ought to have access to them as well ~;) .
Well i have hit a bit of a roadblock with new units for the mod, I cant seem to find much more references to military units on the internet and I dont have many books on it, most of the sources are more concerned with the kings and generals of the period rather than the army composition. But I have a few suggestions for the campaign map to make it more historically accurate and interesting.
First of all, Aragon could be given a trade good. Aragonese/Catalan merchants were very active in the Meditteranean during the 13th century until the bubonic plague struck, almost rivalling the Italian City states. To refect this, they should have at least one trade good (linen and textiles were the main trade, as well as weapons which I guess is represented by the fact they have iron present). As you have quite rightfully reduced trade income, this would not have a great effect, it will just add flavour to the game.
Second main suggestion is that Genoa also get some more trade goods. They were fairly equal to Venice in the trading scene. In the original release of MTW when all the Italian states were combined into one, I can understand them having less trading as it would be a bit overpowered, but now that they are their own faction with not many provinces, coupled with the fact trading is reduced they could have some more without being too strong IMHO. Maybe two more fairly low value ones to bring them almost on par with Venice (Grain was a fairly big export back then).
Also I still have some heroes that if you have time you could add, I have some for the Teutons, Armenians, Crusader States and additional ones for the Sicilians (all non kings of course). About 20 in total - a bit too many to post here, so if you want to see the list then say so and I will PM them to you in several parts.
Originally Posted by VikingHorde:
Good question. I think for the English Norman Knights could replace the Feudal ones (I'm imagining the Normans basically taking over all the English noble estates and replacing the current incumbents with their own.) Maybe French and Sicilians can still train Feudal Knights? (I know little about the Sicilians, sorry) Although they'd probably be little point if Norman Knights are better, unless we increase their initial cost slightly to make training the Feudals more worth while. I don't think it's necessary to replace Royal Knights though.
Nice, that means that the Sicilians, English and French get a new unit. Will this unit replace Royal/Feudal knights?
Originally Posted by Armchair Athlete:
Thanks for the info. I would like to add the heroes that you got, becouse I don't have that meny, if any for those factions. :knight:
Well i have hit a bit of a roadblock with new units for the mod, I cant seem to find much more references to military units on the internet and I dont have many books on it, most of the sources are more concerned with the kings and generals of the period rather than the army composition. But I have a few suggestions for the campaign map to make it more historically accurate and interesting.
First of all, Aragon could be given a trade good. Aragonese/Catalan merchants were very active in the Meditteranean during the 13th century until the bubonic plague struck, almost rivalling the Italian City states. To refect this, they should have at least one trade good (linen and textiles were the main trade, as well as weapons which I guess is represented by the fact they have iron present). As you have quite rightfully reduced trade income, this would not have a great effect, it will just add flavour to the game.
Second main suggestion is that Genoa also get some more trade goods. They were fairly equal to Venice in the trading scene. In the original release of MTW when all the Italian states were combined into one, I can understand them having less trading as it would be a bit overpowered, but now that they are their own faction with not many provinces, coupled with the fact trading is reduced they could have some more without being too strong IMHO. Maybe two more fairly low value ones to bring them almost on par with Venice (Grain was a fairly big export back then).
Also I still have some heroes that if you have time you could add, I have some for the Teutons, Armenians, Crusader States and additional ones for the Sicilians (all non kings of course). About 20 in total - a bit too many to post here, so if you want to see the list then say so and I will PM them to you in several parts.
@Despot of the English
Good, i'll add the unit soon if the heat in denmark dosn't kill me. It's +30 C, so im not very productive right now.
I'm also wondering about whether to give the English a mounted archer unit. English mounted archers did not shoot on horseback like the Mongols, however, although there have been some accounts of them doing this but it wasn't common, they rode to battle and fought on foot like normal bowmen. Having a horse wasn't the only thing that set them apart from other archers: they were better paid and better equipped. They could also carry better arms and armour because heavier items could be carried on their horses. Mounted archers were used a lot in the chevauchees of the Hundred Years War where they would make lightning raids into enemy territory.
So an English mounted archer would really be a longbowman with better armour and better in hand-to-hand combat although it might be confusing to some people to have mounted archers who don't shoot from horseback.
I'll have to read my Osprey book about the English Longbowman again ~:) .
Originally Posted by Despot of the English:
Well, maybe it should be a cav unit that can dismount into superior Longbowman. They could be a sword fighter on a horses back, but have to be light or medium cav.
I'm also wondering about whether to give the English a mounted archer unit. English mounted archers did not shoot on horseback like the Mongols, however, although there have been some accounts of them doing this but it wasn't common, they rode to battle and fought on foot like normal bowmen. Having a horse wasn't the only thing that set them apart from other archers: they were better paid and better equipped. They could also carry better arms and armour because heavier items could be carried on their horses. Mounted archers were used a lot in the chevauchees of the Hundred Years War where they would make lightning raids into enemy territory.
So an English mounted archer would really be a longbowman with better armour and better in hand-to-hand combat although it might be confusing to some people to have mounted archers who don't shoot from horseback.
I'll have to read my Osprey book about the English Longbowman again ~:) .
Something else too to think about for the English: Household Archer. From the Osprey book this is interesting: The household archer was considered an elite, Warwick the Kingmaker once commenting that they were worth two ordinary archers - even English ones. The apex of this class were the King's "Yeomen of the Crown" who, according to the household regulations of Edward IV (the Black Book), were to be "... most semely persons, clenely, and strongest archers" and were selected by being " chosen and tryed out of every lordes house in Ynglond."
So you could have Household Archers who are upgraded Longbowmen and an even better class being the Yeomen of the Crown who would be the best longbowmen, picked from the retinues of the King's lords.