I agree with stig. Kingdoms definatly shouldn't be the new PBM, as stig said, not everyone will get it. I know I won't because of the Securom issue. I also think the campaigns in Kingdoms might be too small for a PBM.
Printable View
I agree with stig. Kingdoms definatly shouldn't be the new PBM, as stig said, not everyone will get it. I know I won't because of the Securom issue. I also think the campaigns in Kingdoms might be too small for a PBM.
There are many interesting mods developed for M2 while kotr has been going on. Deus Lo Vult, Lands to Conquer and Stainless Steel for example. Many of them include Blood Broads and Bastards like title systems which would add RP flair to another PBM.
In my opinion, starting a PBM on a new game is chancey. There are too many unknowns. In KotR for example, we've coped with bugs and game play issues. Also the general level of skill of the players is beyond the game to meet, we've had to seriously intervene to keep it challenging. I've given countless sums to the AI to keep the game interesting.
Carefully choosing a good mod on a stable game with maybe a few tweaks of our own would address many of these problems.
Still, I'd like to see KotR continue.
In that case you will get a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKill
As soon as someone with Kingdoms gets to fight a battle, or after the next Diet session we will move to patch 1.3, which also has Securom.
If enough people have concerns about 1.3, perhaps the issue of upgrading should be put to an OOC vote.
What exactly does 1.3 have that 1.2 doesn't in terms of gameplay?
I mean, an obvious drawback for 1.3 seems to be SecuRom, which, IIRC, locks its tentacles on your computer and refuses to let go. I'm really, really iffy on that point.
FH's mod has definitely improved the gameplay from an RP point of view. Do we really need to graduate to 1.3 just to get a better gaming experience?
Also, welcome RoadKill. ~:wave:
1.3 changes nothing about the gameplay, but it makes Kingdoms compatible with vanilla.
Since dual installations seem impossible, atleast for a noob like me we have to do it. I have not bought Kingdoms to gather dust on my desk. I have it installed and will keep it installed. I'm not uninstalling it everytime I need to fight a battle.
Securom does nothing, all about it is blown up, and mostlikely the thread has been made by someone who didn't succeed in cracking the game.
Thanks GH.
I never knew 1.3 also had securom. As Overknight suggested I think we need a vote, I am totally against having something installed to my computer without my permission, and to make it worse make it so its almost impossible to take it off.
Edit: Response to Stig didn't see it
Well, I would like to trust you, but the discussion about it pretty much convinced me that Securom is bad.
I'm against a vote.
I payed money for Kingdoms, and I'm not throwing that money away. End of story really.
Well, we seem to be debating a number of issues here at one time. I'll give my overall "vision" for the game and then try to address all of the issues one by one.
This game is a constant struggle for balance between "playing the game we have" and "making the game we want to play". This is where the "purists" and the "modders" seem to battle it out for what direction KotR will go. While I am most definitely a "purist", I try to strive for a middle ground. And that is "making the game the most fun for the most people."
I was against recruitable generals because I am a purist. I rather go with what the game gives us. We can be electors until an avatar spawns and thats what I am going to do when Jan dies. However, I see the argument for allowing recruitables to fill in the holes that are in the family tree. But, I am against relying on them entirely. And I am also against having them from the beginning. They should be a last resort, not the norm. To me, having the recruitables fill gaps in the tree allows that middle ground between us "purists" and "modders" and allows the most people to have the most fun.
I see KotR having tons of life in it and it may be premature to talk about the next game but I will indulge some of you and give my opinion. I think we should pick a game that will be the most fun for the most people and then pick a faction accordingly. I think we should have no mods or just the minimal amount of mods to facilitate game play. The "purists" like how no mods allow us to react to the crazy AI and heir mechanics and the "modders" want to show the computer who is boss and simply mod us the exact game they want to play. There should be a middle ground between the two that allows the most people to have the most fun.
As for the patch, I think the 1.2 patch is working fine and I am holding off on Kingdoms because my schooling could not survive Kingdoms coming into my life. Also, the idea of putting something on my computer that takes over a part of it fills me with dread. But, if the majority want 1.3, or Econ wants it, then I'll download the patch. Again, it assaults my "purist" tendencies yet fills that nice "middle ground" I keep talking about.
In that case 1.3 will also work fine, as it changes nothing. It just makes sure you can load my saves.Quote:
I think the 1.2 patch is working fine
It does not take anything over, it just sits there, doing nothing but checking if your disk is legal.Quote:
takes over a part of it
Concerning the 1.2-1.3 argument, perhaps the opinion of someone from CA might clarify the issue. I know many of them, Lusted for example, particpate on the forums here.
Perhaps we should consult with one of them? Perhaps one of our own with a working relationship with them should do it?
Well let me put it like this.
If Securom would be harmfull it would not have been put on the game. If it would be harmfull game reviewers, the real professions would have mentioned it.
I think thats a good idea OK.
I don't know anything about the SecuRom so my immediate tendency is to just say no and play it safe.
Something that might alleviate my concerns would certainly make me lean in the other direction.
I understand stig, that the Securom only checks if your using illegal disks, but, any hacker could easily use this as an advantage to retreive info from your computer. Well thats what a lot of people are saying. I have a many important files and account information, I can't risk leaking to some hacker. I don't know if I'm just worrying too much, but I would like to play it safe.
Then let me explain:
The Hacker-SecuROM issue #1.
According to many people SecuROM creates a problem which makes sure that during installation your firewall and virusscan has to be disabled. Which is when the hacker comes into play.
I can tell you this is bull. As I installed and never disable my firewall.
The Hacker-SecuROM issue #2
According to many people SecuROM is always seen as a virus and rootkit, and thus hackers can, would they first get into your computer, and then know that you have SecuROM, install another file with the same name that is really a virus and you will not recognize this.
I can also tell you this is bull, as I did both virus and rootkit scans.
Furthermore:
I get loads of high rated intrussions a day (on a University network) and no hacker, virus or spyware ever managed to enter my computer.
Since I'm quite active on the official forums I can bring you this view of a moderator (tho he might be admin now) there:
We had a discussion about it (on an another forum which I visit, has some of the .com mods on it and our conclusion was that the guy that started the threads was mostlikely a hacker that wasn't able to hack the game, and that most people who strongly opposed this had the game illegal as well).Quote:
essentially im on the side of the people saying its ok. the guy's main comments he cant back up and has no proof. and most of the outrage is that it didnt ask you. but no anti piracy stuff does.
there are no known cases of it being exploited, no proof its in ring0 and no proof it damages your computer.
Okay, I'm trusting you on this one Stig.
I just might get Kingdom now thanks to you Stig. :bounce:
Edit: (or maybe not)
I've been reading up on this. I've even gone on the SecuROM website to get their view. And I am getting really nervous about this. First off, I don't pirate CD games so this isn't about being mad that I can't hack something. I only pirate "abandonware" which are old discontinued DOS games.
But, from what I have read, SecuROM puts something on my computer that I can not remove. This might seem like a piddly thing but it is huge to me. I am the lord-god-emperor of my computer and I decide what is on it or off it, not some paranoid software company. Until CA puts out a SecuROM uninstaller, I am leaning towards not buying Kingdoms and not upgrading the patch.
I haven't made up my mind for sure yet whether this is a "deal-breaker" for me but I am leaning that way until someone can tell me how to get the thing off of my computer once I install it.
My battle report is up:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=145
Do you have Vista or XP PK?
On Vista you don't have adminrights, and therefore it needs to put a file on your PC. On XP it only makes a registry entry.
Furthermore mostlikely you read about the Bioshock version of this SecuROM. Kingdoms (and patch 1.3) have a far lesser version. The only problem is is that you can never remove it. Will it prove harmfull however I'm sure a remover will be made ... if not I know some guys at CA (via .com), maybe I can "persuade" them.
Now I'm confused. Overknight runs the whole game right? So the electors who hav an avatar fight the battle, so shouldnt the person with that avatar be posting the battle report. Kotr is getting more and more confusing to me.
OK himself has an avatar too, and that avatar can fight battles as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by RoadKill
I got XP.
The big sticking point with me is the "can never remove it" part. I want a way to get it off my computer before I put it on my computer. I don't care if Sony says its harmless. Its my computer. I am GOD of my computer. I don't like security software. Because, while I am a software pirate, I am not the kind they are going after. Yet I'm affected.
PK, thats the problem a lot of people are pissed off at CA, not cause of Securom, but the fact that people who don't pirate also get affected by it.
RK
Yeah, I would never pirate a game thats still on the shelves. Its a fine line but I only download old DOS games. Since the games are discontinued, I'm not really cutting into their profit margin. But, it is still illegal and I don't pretend its legal like some "abandonware" fans do. But, I still resent the heavy-handedness of the software industry.
Actually, I think you would be suprised of the number of things that are put on your computer by things as Microsoft and the like that you don't know of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
And of that fact that people that aren't doing pirating and getting effected, on that matter I think the things they put on DVD's are far more irritating, as you can't speed them up and have to watch them damned commercials saying you shouldn't get the DVD illegally for over a minute.
Stig,
You're right, there are probably hundreds or thousands of things on my computer that I don't know about. I try to minimize them with firewalls, common sense, and scans but I don't pretend I have found them all. On the other hand, SecuROM is something I know about. Its an easy place to draw a line in the sand and vote with my wallet.
I think this is starting to get off topic from the thread.
RK
Yes and no. Econ asked us to speak up if we have problems with 1.3 and I am starting to have a problem with it.
You might have, but you will also have to see that some of us have payed good money for Kingdoms and want to play it. Which means others have to update to 1.3Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev