Finally, considering that several people are under fire for selecting me (never mind that Seamus just posted that the initial families get two people they know and I have roughly six votes :rolleyes2:), backing off and voting someone else would also be considered scummy.
Ahh, Capo.
For what it's worth, this is exactly how I'd expect GH to defend a scumbuddy. No name mentioned, dismissive rolleyes.
02-05-2008, 22:33
GeneralHankerchief
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
For what it's worth, this is exactly how I'd expect GH to defend a scumbuddy. No name mentioned, dismissive rolleyes.
I figured it out! It's the transitive property! That's that little mathematic formula I've been using!
If A=B and B=C, A must equal C.
A: Glenn comes under fire for electing me.
B: I defend those who come under fire for electing me.
Therefore...
C: I defend Glenn.
It's not too hard to put 2 and 2 together, Sasaki.
02-05-2008, 22:39
Csargo
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
I figured it out! It's the transitive property! That's that little mathematic formula I've been using!
If A=B and B=C, A must equal C.
A: Glenn comes under fire for trusting you for no apparent reason.
B: I defend those who come under fire for electing me.
Therefore...
C: I defend Glenn.
It's not too hard to put 2 and 2 together, Sasaki.
fixed.:)
02-05-2008, 22:43
Moros
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
Just a question sasaki, but what do the numbers on you list between the () mean? * means the same number I guess. But wat does the number mean?
02-05-2008, 22:46
Sasaki Kojiro
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
* is a placeholder, the others are 1-10. Why would you think that I considered you as suspicious as Glenn?
02-05-2008, 22:51
Ayachuco
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
1) Paranoia: He is paranoid about his posts, and edited it to add reason. Mafiosos are more paranoid than townies. His reasoning for selection is also bogus as has been pointed out. Paranoia is a well know scumtell.
2) Backtracking: After the initial accusation of paranoia he backtracks, claiming:
There's no way the initial post can be taken as a joke. He said he was paranoid, came back and edited his post to give a reason because he was worried, and asked us not to look at it too closely. He also asks us what he should do to avoid suspicion, which is another scum tell.
3) Sidestepping: He hasn't responded to the accusation of dishonesty, instead moving to the offensive:
4) Self PreservationAnd despite his certainty that I am not pro-town, he is willing to offer a truce:
If a townie thinks someone is guilty, they don't offer a truce for the sake of self preservation. QED. 4 strikes and you're out. Lynch Glenn.
Paranoia has nothing to do with it. Even while typing this reply, I am feeling a bit paranoid; more paranoid than usual since as a townie I have no idea who is on which side. Every word can be taken as a lynchable clue and every statement a double-edged sword that hit yourself in the head. The whole, you're all alone and screwed if you misplace your trust (esp. in the beginning with the vigilante/protect groups) can make anyone to some degree paranoid. Glenn was attacked and he reacted by lashing out at the provokers. Instead of defending himself and digging himself into a bigger hole b/c of his presumed "mistake" of jokingly being paranoid, he decided to settle it via pm. His offensive pm really wasn't that offensive or scummy, he just gave you a mental note that he would be keeping his eyes on your activities which is something a townie is supposed to do. However, he probably realized that he was being too aggresive and didn't want to come off as being a mafioso and offered a truce, albeit a shady one. Also, the fact that he probably couldn't persuade anyone that you were a mafioso coupled with his lack of evidence of your guiltyness (his assumption of your mafioso role came from your actions, however a townie would also be questioning people lead to his confused state) and prompted the truce. Everyone wants to live as much as the next person and so self preservation isn't neccessarily something that would point out a mafioso. I sure don't want to die but I know that I'm not a mafioso, also. Let us wait for night results before we start a lynching comittee, it will give us a more accurate picture of who we're dealing with. Right now I'm just going to be watching scottishranger and Lord Winter, (no hunches, just watching). Yes, I'm paranoid and proud of it.
02-05-2008, 22:55
Sasaki Kojiro
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
That's fine, there's a reason it's a scumtell and not a scumguarantee. It's widely accepted by many experience players as well, if you'll excuse the appeal to authority ~:)
02-05-2008, 22:57
Moros
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
* is a placeholder, the others are 1-10. Why would you think that I considered you as suspicious as Glenn?
Cause I tought the * probably stand for same number. and I see those - connecting me with Glenn and GH, or who was it? (can't see your sig while replying), so I guess I'm not the one laying the connection.
I however did have pm conversations with Glenn, and though I will not say that I thrust him, the pm conversations I had didn't make him look suspicious at all. Personally I must agree that he did post some supicious stuff. However I'm going to wait making to many conclusions for now, however, please don't stop posting arguments adn try to convince me. Cause if you can make a case, I'll be the first to lych him. However personnaly I think we're a bit to low on information for thinking about lynching people already. Hopefully the kills may tell us much more.
Though you suspecting people already that much, is a bit suspicious (but then again, what isn't during a Mafia game?), I'm under the impression you seem to play different from the previous game. When you in fact was mafia-side, or are you succesfully fooling me again? :clown:
02-05-2008, 22:59
Csargo
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco Leman
Paranoia has nothing to do with it. Even while typing this reply, I am feeling a bit paranoid; more paranoid than usual since as a townie I have no idea who is on which side. Every word can be taken as a lynchable clue and every statement a double-edged sword that hit yourself in the head. The whole, you're all alone and screwed if you misplace your trust (esp. in the beginning with the vigilante/protect groups) can make anyone to some degree paranoid. Glenn was attacked and he reacted by lashing out at the provokers. Instead of defending himself and digging himself into a bigger hole b/c of his presumed "mistake" of jokingly being paranoid, he decided to settle it via pm. His offensive pm really wasn't that offensive or scummy, he just gave you a mental note that he would be keeping his eyes on your activities which is something a townie is supposed to do. However, he probably realized that he was being too aggresive and didn't want to come off as being a mafioso and offered a truce, albeit a shady one. Also, the fact that he probably couldn't persuade anyone that you were a mafioso coupled with his lack of evidence of your guiltyness (his assumption of your mafioso role came from your actions, however a townie would also be questioning people lead to his confused state) and prompted the truce. Everyone wants to live as much as the next person and so self preservation isn't neccessarily something that would point out a mafioso. I sure don't want to die but I know that I'm not a mafioso, also. Let us wait for night results before we start a lynching comittee, it will give us a more accurate picture of who we're dealing with. Right now I'm just going to be watching scottishranger and Lord Winter, (no hunches, just watching). Yes, I'm paranoid and proud of it.
Why are you paranoid?
02-05-2008, 23:02
Moros
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichigo
Why are you paranoid?
err... didn't he explain that in his post?
People please, I know most of us (hopefully lol) are trying to help town. But I sincerely got the feeling were going over the top. We're turning this thing into a chaos. This way we're going to make decent arguments fade to the background.
02-05-2008, 23:06
Chimpyang
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
I think after the whole Glenn thing, people are afraid to post anything about how they are thinking. See! I even feel paranoid about posting that!
02-05-2008, 23:07
Moros
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
I'm afraid you could be right. ~:no:
02-05-2008, 23:11
KukriKhan
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
Sasaki Kojiro makes a pretty good case. Still, it must be pointed out that Glenn's posting style before this game has always been... well: wordy. He's never used one word when 5 will do. And that always invites more scrutiny from readers, AND introduces more chances to mis-state what one intends.
On the other hand, Glenn did state that he had read through some (all?) previous mafia game-threads - presumeably to glean winning strategies and tactics - so he must be aware that blurting out support of someone, or pointing the finger of accusation, without some detailed explanation of rationale, BOTH paint a target on one's forehead.
Preliminary impression (ha! There's that 'pression' word.): Glenn gets no "newbie break" from me.
02-05-2008, 23:12
Chimpyang
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
Think it's definitely advantage to the mafia.....the town has a slower start at the moment.
02-05-2008, 23:20
Csargo
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moros
err... didn't he explain that in his post?
People please, I know most of us (hopefully lol) are trying to help town. But I sincerely got the feeling were going over the top. We're turning this thing into a chaos. This way we're going to make decent arguments fade to the background.
That's hardly a good reason for being paranoid.
Hardly, you have to put pressure on people and ask questions to get any sort of reading on them. With so many people playing you're kinda forced to go overboard. If not then people can easily just slip through the cracks.
02-05-2008, 23:23
Moros
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
That I know however, I still think that the way we're currenlty trying to unmask mafiosi or possible other bad guys (for example a serial killer) isn't really working that great.
02-05-2008, 23:32
Ayachuco
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichigo
That's hardly a good reason for being paranoid.
Hardly, you have to put pressure on people and ask questions to get any sort of reading on them. With so many people playing you're kinda forced to go overboard. If not then people can easily just slip through the cracks.
And my sword just recoiled from the blow on Sasaki's impregenable armor of reasoning and hit me in the face.
That is exactly the reason why I'm paranoid (besides I'm always a little paranoid, must get that from my Mom), fanatical mobs that kill on sight. I feel like I have to be overly careful of my wording because of people going overboard to try not let anyone slip away unnoticed. I think I rephrased that sentence like 5 times before I posted it and it still makes me look kinda scummy.:shame:
02-05-2008, 23:38
Louis VI the Fat
Re : Capo de Tutti Capi - II
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Okay, so at first I was thinking SK is either paranoid. Or playing games, like he always does - even if we don't know which one yet. He probably is, however, he might be onto something here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn
So I must edit to say I trust GeneralHankerchief because I believe he would be given a more moderate role this time - instead of a largely evil one such as in previous games.
For someone who claims to have read up so much about .org mafia, I think it a peculiar mistake to think roles are assigned in CDTC instead of given at random. Seamus has even thanked random.org for the randomisation. Which I know you have read - since you posted three posts below the post where Seamus says the roles are handed out at random. (post #12, #16)
What is up with that, Glenn? We know you spell the rules, you say so yourself and you are obviously knowledgable about them. Is Sasaki onto something?
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd
Originally Posted by Andres
pression
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn
pression
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moros
pression
Please... I know English is not our first language, but its pressure. Geez!!!
You three been PM'ing lots? Andres and Moros are Flemish, 'pression' is probably a logical word construction for them. But Glenn is Australian, (I think?). Why the mistake? Been reading a lot of Flemish messages? Why is Moros jumping to your defense all the time? Connected?
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco Leman
Paranoia has nothing to do with it. Even while typing this reply, I am feeling a bit paranoid; more paranoid than usual since as a townie I have no idea who is on which side. Every word can be taken as a lynchable clue and every statement a double-edged sword that hit yourself in the head. The whole, you're all alone and screwed if you misplace your trust (esp. in the beginning with the vigilante/protect groups) can make anyone to some degree paranoid. Glenn was attacked and he reacted by lashing out at the provokers. Instead of defending himself and digging himself into a bigger hole b/c of his presumed "mistake" of jokingly being paranoid, he decided to settle it via pm. His offensive pm really wasn't that offensive or scummy, he just gave you a mental note that he would be keeping his eyes on your activities which is something a townie is supposed to do. However, he probably realized that he was being too aggresive and didn't want to come off as being a mafioso and offered a truce, albeit a shady one. Also, the fact that he probably couldn't persuade anyone that you were a mafioso coupled with his lack of evidence of your guiltyness (his assumption of your mafioso role came from your actions, however a townie would also be questioning people lead to his confused state) and prompted the truce. Everyone wants to live as much as the next person and so self preservation isn't neccessarily something that would point out a mafioso. I sure don't want to die but I know that I'm not a mafioso, also. Let us wait for night results before we start a lynching comittee, it will give us a more accurate picture of who we're dealing with. Right now I'm just going to be watching scottishranger and Lord Winter, (no hunches, just watching). Yes, I'm paranoid and proud of it.
Huh?
Look, everybody and his dog will claim to be a townie, so as not to arouse suspicion. But to write an entire nouvelle vague novel about paranoia just to drive the point across that you are an innocent 'did you hear that, people: innocent' townie strikes me as very peculiar, to say the least.
I am not ready to lynch any of the above on this, but maybe the odd lonesome detective out there could use it. Glenn, GH, Moros and Draco Leman have some explaining to do.
02-05-2008, 23:40
Sigurd
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Those who have played with me and paid close attention to me in the past know that I've always fought against "newbie lynches"[...]
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Yeah like one of my first games... hmm who was it that made sure I was promptly undone?
02-05-2008, 23:45
GeneralHankerchief
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
That doesn't count. I was Mafia then. :laugh4:
02-05-2008, 23:50
Drisos
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
Gah! This is too complicated! Gah!
Gah! You're all scum! Gah!
Gah... I'll just lynch you all. Stand in a nice line and the wrath of my axe! :balloon2:
02-05-2008, 23:53
RoadKill
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drisos
Gah! This is too complicated! Gah!
Gah! You're all scum! Gah!
Gah... I'll just lynch you all. Stand in a nice line and the wrath of my axe! :balloon2:
Eager to kill innocent townies? No?
02-05-2008, 23:54
Csargo
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moros
That I know however, I still think that the way we're currenlty trying to unmask mafiosi or possible other bad guys (for example a serial killer) isn't really working that great.
How could you possible know it's not working? That's kinda strange response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco
That is exactly the reason why I'm paranoid (besides I'm always a little paranoid, must get that from my Mom), fanatical mobs that kill on sight. I feel like I have to be overly careful of my wording because of people going overboard to try not let anyone slip away unnoticed. I think I rephrased that sentence like 5 times before I posted it and it still makes me look kinda scummy
Indeed it does. If we let something slip away unnoticed, we'll possible miss something extremely important.
02-05-2008, 23:58
Drisos
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichigo
How could you possible know it's not working? That's kinda strange response.
Because his methods haven't yet pointed him to himself :P
and Roadkill... the problem is, I seem to be the only innocent townie.. :( your reply is nonsense.. (even worse then mine)
02-06-2008, 00:03
RoadKill
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drisos
Because his methods haven't yet pointed him to himself :P
and Roadkill... the problem is, I seem to be the only innocent townie.. :( your reply is nonsense.. (even worse then mine)
The only innocent townie? Arn't all townies innocent? Trying to tell me something?
:clown:
02-06-2008, 00:06
Drisos
Re: Capo de Tutti Capi - II
:gah: :gah2:
btw, you were the first person to use the combination of words 'innocent' and 'townie'..
Sigh, I have to read like 50 posts yet again only after a day. From what I can see, GH IMO is defensive of Glenn while SK is too aggressive which implies to me that all of them might be mafia which is entirely possible since there are so many mafia families.
The best course of action then, IMO, is to wait until the results for the night has come up because I really don't want to read like 100 posts the next time I log on. There is something as discussing TOO much
