No, I was very insistent. You were not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Believer
Thank goodness you're only quoting the parts of our conversation that are possible to reprint on the .org.
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No, I was very insistent. You were not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Believer
Thank goodness you're only quoting the parts of our conversation that are possible to reprint on the .org.
I had a raging....Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
... interest, in re-reading our conversation. You're far from clean in my eyes, Mr. Devious.
I'm a dirty, dirty boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Believer
Or, in this case, girl. Though I'm far more comfortable in the former role.
ATPG -- Where did Believer vote CH, before now?
Being the one claimed Neutral thusfar I'd like to hear out your concerns, what exact problem is there potential for?Quote:
Originally Posted by Renata
Neutral role issues --
Option 1: Victory conditions and/or capabilities. Autolycus seems to have been a serial killer sort, for example.
Option 2: Being alive at a point where siding with the mafia might make more sense than siding with us.
Option 3: Lying about being neutral at all.
Thanks, Csargo.
True enough, but you need to take into account secondary goals and flourishes.
Some people might be more interested in attempting to secure a total victory rather than just the simple one for a main VC.
If you look at Autolycus, he was neutral favor and neutral pop.
His Secondary VC probably had something to do with this SK-ness, and his flourish was probably something even stranger.
With Neutrals I don't think it is as black and white as selling the town out.
edit.
Despite this reasoning I do understand your problems, I'd just like to say I'm more willing to work with the town that you might give me credit for. Other neutrals I cannot speak for however :bow:
Oh well. had the day not gone on longer I would not have had any suspicion on me. I do have a message for you, but I need to run it by the host first. Things are just going to get fun from here, I can tell you that. :grin:
You had my suspicion from Day 2 :P or was it 3? Whenever the Visor-wagon occured...
I've also noted that in games with recruitment, neutrals are typically recruitable.
Basically, Split has to die any round we don't have a better suspect.
Are you saying that this is a conversion game?
I haven't ruled it out. We already know of two neutrals, and there's also others out there with neutral tendencies. Large number of neutrals + serial killer tells me this could be a cult game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visorslash
I don't know what purpose neutrals would serve otherwise.
Telling neutrals that you're going to kill them when, essentially, you get the spare time to, isn't going to leave that great an impression on any who would like to come out as neutral :smile:
I don't want you guys to come out as neutral. I'd prefer it if the mafia accidentally murder you.Quote:
Originally Posted by spL1tp3r50naL1ty
I'll vote to kill the next person who claims neutral.
Well we have to wait for the Mafia anyway now... but after CH is gone I'm a little clueless now, will have to look at the thread in more detail but I'm at work right now so I don't have that much time...
There's too many that have been acting a bit suspicious when there might be only one Mafia left... ATPG, Secura, Believer, myself... there's a bunch of people worth voting for
Yes, I agree with you that you've been acting suspicious. :laugh4:
I figured as much :P
it makes you even more suspicious though...
I think it is suspicious that you find yourself suspicious and then find me suspicious for finding you suspicious for finding yourself suspicious. That's very suspicious.
:stare:
It is...
HAHA, I'm having fun :D
We now have targets so thanks for getting yourself out in the open. :grin:
Just give them up now CH. There's no use, you can't fight us. Make it easier on yourself, I promise I'll be gentle.Quote:
Originally Posted by classical_hero
Wouldn't your targets be everyone else besides you? :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by classical_hero
I'll paint a bulls-eye on my butt.
That would be an impressive feat in and of itself. Congratulations in advance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renata
Music Mafia
End of night four...
After the Artists had gone each to their own, Renata had started his nightly practice; He needed her shape to be better than ever for a grand tour that he had been planning for some time now. He was so busy that he only noticed the figure behind him when he moonwalked into him. He looked down at the stranger. "Hey kid, whatcha doing here?"
In response, the stranger simply pushed him backwards.
"Hey! Beat it!" Renata raised his fists and tilted his fedora. "You wanna be startin' something, huh?"
"As a matter of fact, I am!"
Renata shrieked in pain as waves of horrid and mindbreakingly bad music washed over him. His attacker looked down at the broken musician.
"Well, that was a thrill, huh?"
Renata seemed incapable of replying. The attacker kicked his prone and lifeless body and left the scene of the crime.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Players Alive (9):
TheLastDays
Romanic
AskThePizzaGuy
Robbiecon
Csargo
Secura
Spl1tPersonality
Captain Blackadder
Believer
It is now day five!
Voting ends in roughly 24 hours!
Believer, as Britney Spears, I believe is a safe enough bet to probably be good. If what has been said in the thread so far is true, Diamondeye himself likes Britney, and Britney was immensely popular back in the day. And while she has made some bad decisions, she I imagine would qualify for good popularity. Unlike Lady Gaga, there is not totally divided opinion, and people in general seem to be happy enough to be subjected to her music.
If split is neutral, (did he claim to be Enya, or was that privately, I don't know, and I don't have enough spare time right now to fully check out), then I'm willing to let him off too.
So, Vote: Captain Blackadder, time to talk, Sir!
0_0...Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamondeye
I KNEW IT! JUSTIN BIEBER! If townies lose, I will never forgive them...
Speaking of which...something seems off about ATPG this game... Don't really know why....
Wow, this is a bit of a swing and a miss, robbiecon... I think this post is a strong argument against skimreading if ever I've seen one!Quote:
Originally Posted by robbiecon
split claimed to be Britney (and claimed he was Neutral Pop) and it was Pizza that claimed Enya, while Believer has not claimed anyone yet; how did you get all those muddled up so badly?
Deliberately?Quote:
Originally Posted by Secura
This is going to be so much fun to watch you guys. Your gonna pay for lynching me. Your gonna get this in your back. I am playing the drums here. :grin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XhDHJNuyXw
Because whenever ATPG is townie, everyone thinks he's guilty. That would be why. I cite for you every game ever as evidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seon
Vote: Secura
Take a stand, my sweet.
Vote: Csargo
It's time to lose, scum.
I'm not scum
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
The remaining scum are hiding behind one or more of these names.
AskThePizzaGuy, Captain Blackadder, Believer, Robbiecon, Csargo.
This is entirely based upon the vote that killed CH. It was a pretty close vote up until the end.
1. ATPG - Weak candidate, can be accused of talking me out of voting CH and bandwagoning split.
2. CB - Strong candidate. Has posted very little useful and voted just to stay under the radar.
3. Believer - Moderate candidate. Can be accused of scheming behind the scenes for my private talks with ATPG/Renata/Secura. Can also be accused of bussing CH.
4. Robbiecon - Weak candidate. Can be accused of trying to save his scumbuddy CH. The vote was unclear with a steady increase of votes on CH, good round for town and hard for mafia.
5. Csargo - Strong candidate. Can be accused of trying to save CH. Not much else to go on here, but I feel he's the right choice.
I agree with your suspect #3 :laugh4:
vote: Believer
- One off vote on autolycus, Day 1.
- One off vote on Renata, Day 2.
- Voted for Visorslash, after he claimed a scanning power, on Day 3.
- Voted classical_hero on Day 4, after he was ahead of the tally (classical 5, Split 4). This could very well be bussing.
One off votes are typically scummy because Scums like to be the only one voting for someone: They don't get comebacks for it, good way to fly under the radar.
I'm amazed I'm not on that list :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Believer
also, vote: Romanic
I expected this. If I helped bringing CH down then I'm happy to put my life on the line for it. However, I did try to push for CH before anyone else in that round, take that however you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Romanic
Based on basically nothing. You got lucky that I was actually mafia, since my voting pattern is absolutely no different to what it is as a townie. Yet every time it brings suspicion on me. So if I make my vote useful I am scum, and yet if I make my vote useless by voting for someone who is not in the lead, it is town. That is some weird criteria.
Welcome to the irrational thinking of the townie. It is superior to your logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by classical_hero
Random madness will prevail. I swear it.
except that I was, vehemently, going for him a round earlier, when you all had to lynch Visor...Quote:
Originally Posted by Believer
Man I really wanted to pressure Romanic a bit but your scum just sticks to my shoes... better get rid of it
unvote, vote: Believer
My brain is currently on another planet. I saw names and joined them up, incorrectly. But my vote remains the one I intended on making anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secura
I don't understand this train of thought... what would anyone have to gain from deliberately making such a slip-up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blackadder
Your flourish is very annoying, evasive Pizza isn't as much fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Did I miss anything? I thought Pizza had lost his flourish day 1 and wasn't going after it anymore...Quote:
Originally Posted by Secura
I don't even recall what his flourish was/is so I'm even more confused :laugh4:
His flourish: He cannot vote for the person who is lynched. He failed it Day 1 when JHT was lynched.
Then that makes his vote all the more interesting to me; why the change of tune, Pizza?
So is he intentionally misplacing his vote?
Why would Enya of all artists have that flourish? That sounds odd.
I was being droll forgive me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secura
As for the current situation I say the two biggest suspects to mind are both believer and Csargo. I don't believe that ATPG is a particularly strong candidate but then again I can never read him as mafia or town he is always just ATPG.
For now Vote Csargo
I think he is the stronger candidate for the lynch then believer.
Well, I'm struggling to understand the reasoning behind it, so attributed it to his flourish since I hadn't realised he'd lost that with the JHT lynch.Quote:
Originally Posted by spL1tp3r50naL1ty
Well, Pizza's claim to be Enya hasn't been proven either way, but I have received word of a scan result that confirms his role's gender as being female; we also know from Visorslash that his favour is Good, but neither of these are indicative of innocence or guilt.Quote:
Why would Enya of all artists have that flourish? That sounds odd.
I've been mulling it over ever since Pizza revealed as Enya, and I cannot for the life of me understand how she'd qualify to be on the same level of popularity as Michael Jackson or even be considered more popular than Lady Gaga; if you think about it, Enya would be a genius cover role because there's so much ambiguity about her popularity that it'd take an alignment scanner to truly figure her out.
There has been something off about Pizza in this game, but I can't quite put my finger on it yet.
The only and literally only reason I even know of enya is because of the song "Only time".
Her wiki seems to show that she was very well known and enjoyed, but her wiki is also something ATPG would have access to if he were to establish a cover role for himself.
edit:
I agree with you, he does seem to be off.
Maybe it is the fact that he is masking logical arguments and solid cases with pure aggression on his lynch targets?
I don't know about any behind the scenes work however so I can't speak for that.
You've never heard of Orinoco Flow? That really annoying song that repeats "sail away" again and again and again... I thought that was her most well-known song. :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by spL1tp3r50naL1ty
She's hardly on par with the King of Pop though, nor does record sales equate to popularity; look at Justin Bieber.Quote:
Her wiki seems to show that she was very well known and enjoyed
Well, maybe she's neutral, maybe Pizza's neutral... or DE just sees Enya as someone who's popular... or ATPG is trying to set us up... I haven't played with him much before but actually he seems more serious in this game than in the last one... dunno if that's good or bad
I've never heard it, and now I'm regretting having youtubed it. My god, this song should sail away.
I wouldn't call her on par with MJ, but she is popular, I know a lot of people who enjoy her music :shrug:
Enya is considered good and Phil Collins is considered bad? What a crazy game this is.
How can I be accused of trying to save CH? I've already explained my reason for voting split. The tally at the time was:Quote:
Originally Posted by Believer
4 Split (Renata, ATPG, Believer, Captain Blackadder)
4 Believer (Romanic, robbiecon, TheLastDays, Secura)
1 Captain Blackadder (Csargo)
CH didn't have a vote when I switched mine, so how could I be trying to save CH?
NO UQuote:
For now Vote Csargo
I think he is the stronger candidate for the lynch then believer.
Vote:CB
Because I already failed my flourish and it is now meaningless... and now I can pressure suspects with my vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secura
Also, Split pretending to find my flourish odd is quite amusing to me. Come on neutral, if you've already sided with the scum, I might as well just vote for you.
I don't pretend.
I'm tired of your disingenuous assertions.trying to push my buttons.
Vote: ATPG
How dare you people criticise Donegal's second finest musical export, I'm shocked and appalled.
Tired of looking for scum, if you ever were? Just concerned with threats on your life, I see....Quote:
Originally Posted by spL1tp3r50naL1ty
Very well, if you're offering your life, I suppose I'll have to take it.
Unvote, vote: Split
This doesn't really answer my question, though; earlier in the game you stated that you were certain of my innocence, and now you're labelling me as a suspect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
So, I ask again, why the change of tune?
I'm not tired of looking for scum I'm tired of you acting like every god :daisy: thing you say is fact.
I just think maybe someone needs to call you out.
You cannot seriously be asking me this question. You are certainly aware of the context of that statement, which was back when I was still under the impression that our being scanned cleared us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secura
It did not, as folks have pointed out. You can't have forgotten that already.
Why the change of tune? Different sets of facts mean different conclusions.
That's fair enough, but then I guess you can provide reasoning as to why I warrant this renewed suspicion. I wouldn't mind knowing why I should be considered more suspicious that some of the other remaining players, either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
As I mentioned to several other players, I view the current situation as one of two things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secura
1) Classical_hero was caught based on good old fashioned town consensus, and everyone who voted for him is innocent.
2) Classical_hero was thrown under the bus by his mafia partners.
The first situation isn't very dangerous at all, as it leaves few suspects to lynch and then we've won. In that case we don't have much to be concerned with.
The second situation is dangerous, as some people will be given a pass for the next several rounds, and those are the very people who were behind Classical_hero's death. If he was bussed, I don't feel like it was done as an afterthought, because nobody really falls for that. It's actually a common scum tell.
What does work and what does fool people is when you bus your partner while under no pressure, for no reason. It works especially well in a game with revealed alignment upon death. Typically, you either begin the wagon yourself or join it early. Beginning it yourself smacks of PIS, which is why I'm not letting some people off the hook for pointing their finger at C_H all game. In fact that tends to indicate the opposite in a not insignificant number of examples. Especially if they're rather vehement about it.
Could be me just being paranoid, but I think I can afford to be, here. Either the situation is as straightforward as it seems, or it is not. If it is not, the danger lies in unexpected places.
I'm pointing my finger in the general direction of the accusers and wagoners of C_H. No one specifically yet, but I felt like you've been too cautious or neutral-sounding in your posts. You'll comment but not vote or lead the discussion anywhere; it feels like you're letting the game happen rather than actively looking for scum.
This is still in the generic, but it is leading to the specific. General scumtells and tactical maneuvers are what I'm using as a basis for my current thought process. I'm not completely sold on anyone, not you, not anyone. I'm not going to give anyone a pass, or assume that there isn't any fine print involved in the marvelous gift which was C_H's lynch.
Split on the other hand seems to have admitted his neutrality and survival win conditions. He will be a problem in the later stages of the game since he effectively adds a vote to the mafia side. A combination of "there's still time" and I have only a vague idea where to point my suspicions means I'm fine with accusing and voting suspects or getting rid of Split. I'm not going to continue yapping on about why, it should be obvious it's not a good idea to leave neutrals around, especially when there are no other very strong leads.
If what Csargo says is true about his vote change then I really think Believer is the strongest suspect right now. Also CHs dreadful proclamations of things to come sound like he's nervous we're killing his partner...
I don't effectively do anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
I don't understand what it is that you would rather axe me, someone who came forward and said "Here's what I am, here's what I am supposed to do," rather than other people who are far less honest.
I don't understand why you look at me and assume I'm going to :daisy: the town as soon as possible when I haven't been contacted once, and if you keep up this talk of lynching me I'm sure they won't even bother to kill me or contact me because I'm a good enough point of contention. I have other goals besides my primary survival objective, namely that of being a decent townie.
I don't know why but I just feel like you're loosely trying to point the finger at anyone, hoping people join along, and if that doesn't work, rally fears against split, he's not a "good guy" like the rest of us! Why does it feel like you're simply stalling?
Nothing personal, Split, but you do have a track record of being dubious when there's any possibility of betraying the town.
It's not even that, really.... neutral in a small game. They don't have to contact you. You don't have to have any current intent of turning on the town. You don't even have to want to do so in the future. All that matters to the scums is that you are one less person they have to murder.
You don't have to go daggers on the town or have any contact with the mafia to be a real threat. I'd prefer to lynch you over a likely townie, because we are likely to lynch a townie at this stage of the game, but we know what you are, and we don't have to lynch a townie this round when we have you.
Again, it's not personal. I have similarly been tossed to the wolves in spite of my good intentions as neutral, many a time. Just part of the game, man.
Name any game other than Capo where I've actively betrayed the town. :Daisy:, name all of them.
The way you're making things it seems like I might as well just go out of my way to spite you, but I won't.
You're still dodging my question. Why does it seem like you're stalling?
This baffles me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
How can you say that I've been "too cautious" when I acted as I did at the start of the game, a manner in which almost got me lynched and takes cojones regardless of alignment? How can you say that I've been "too neutral-sounding" when I accused robbiecon, pressed split and Believer last round, you this round? And finally, how can you say that I'm not "leading the discussion" when I'm poking around and trying to get responses from people, such as the elusive Believer?
As for my votes, they're as follows:
D1: johnhughthom, random vote, first post I made.
D2: Believer, I took a while to vote as I was more focused on responding to accusations and an increasing bandwagon.
D3: robbiecon, my first post of D3, then through two pressure votes on split and Believer, eventually changed to classical_hero after a discussion with Renata
Only during this phase can you say that I've been hesistant with my vote, but can you blame me? I've levied accusations at robbiecon and Believer, and nobody's given two hoots! -_-'
Capo is a good enough example. We were winning, you were under no real threat, and I was keeping you protected. I even trusted you with my information.Quote:
Originally Posted by spL1tp3r50naL1ty
One black mark is all I need. How often have you been neutral? :inquisitive:
As I said, you don't have to. If this were just Split's track record I was dealing with, fine. Everyone betrays. Everyone is untrustworthy. But you're a neutral in a small game, and that means I just cannot trust you. There's not enough rounds where I can ignore you indefinitely. In Capo, the threat of neutrals is when like 8 or 9 rounds have gone by and they still make up a significant portion of the vote or if there's too many scums to kill and not enough time to wipe them out. Big games give you leniency on neutrals. Small games don't afford you the luxury.Quote:
The way you're making things it seems like I might as well just go out of my way to spite you, but I won't.
One dead neutral is superior to one dead townie right now, and is roughly equal to one dead scum regardless, just because you either are scum or can win with them.
It's a simple decision for me. Small chance of lynching real scum, large chance of lynching townies, or 100% chance of destroying a neutral. Gotta go with the obvious winner.
You'd have to answer that question, as you're the one implying that I am stalling. I don't know what you're referring to.Quote:
You're still dodging my question. Why does it seem like you're stalling?
At this point there are better places for your vote than on split. We know he's claimed neutral, and I believe that is true at this point. We've got CB and Believer in my mind are good lynch choices at this point. After they're lynched then we should lynch split if there are no better choices.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
During this day phase is what I'm referring to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secura
Acting in a manner that almost gets you lynched isn't a free pass to innocence. If you start something like quoting Gaga over and over, and cease under pressure, does that reverse people's opinion of you or reinforce it? Do I believe you can be incredibly ballsy as mafia? Yes. You're far more nervous when you're townie, too concerned how others might view you. As scum, you don't ever act like you're stressed or anxious. I can't name a single time you've behaved that way as scum, and I can name several games where you've been scum.
Can I blame you for being hesitant with your vote? If I can't see why you should be, then yes. Levying accusations and voting are two different things. Why aren't you backing up your accusations with votes? I have.
I'd prefer to lynch Split and let the mafia tell us who we shouldn't be lynching with their murder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
Let the scums murder townies. I want someone who is as good as scum in a small game dead first. Then, with better odds of lynching scum, we should try the blind finger pointing. At least get the odds on our side.
I completely disagree. It's more pressing now. Later, we will need those lynches to be on scums, not neutrals.
The initial phrasing came across as though I've been hesistant to vote throughout the game; my bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
I didn't claim that acting as such proved me to be innocent; the only thing that will prove my claims is death, an investigator or the game ending with me still alive. I can agree that I've played ballsy as scum, but there are occasions where I've been highly stressed; losing AVSM on Night 1 in Shadow Fort, constant fear of being lynched/killed in Noblesse Oblige or the final tug-on-my-heartstrings outcome of Haiku Mafia all ring out as specific examples I can recall.Quote:
Acting in a manner that almost gets you lynched isn't a free pass to innocence. If you start something like quoting Gaga over and over, and cease under pressure, does that reverse people's opinion of you or reinforce it? Do I believe you can be incredibly ballsy as mafia? Yes. You're far more nervous when you're townie, too concerned how others might view you. As scum, you don't ever act like you're stressed or anxious. I can't name a single time you've behaved that way as scum, and I can name several games where you've been scum.
The difference here is that I'm vanilla, and as you have so often told me, you might as well play ballsy in that situation because the only impact you can have on the game is with your posts and your vote. If I'm going to die, then at least I'll have gone out with my head held high rather than lurking through to the end, no?
You see no reason to be hesistant in voting, and why would you; when Pizza speaks, people generally listen, I've been saying this a thousand times over about the Gameroom. I accused robbiecon earlier, and nobody batted an eyelid, not even robbiecon himself. How am I supposed to handle that?!Quote:
Can I blame you for being hesitant with your vote? If I can't see why you should be, then yes. Levying accusations and voting are two different things. Why aren't you backing up your accusations with votes? I have.
I'm not accusing you per se, I'm asking questions and trying to understand your approach to this game better; my vote will follow soon enough.
Scums?Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Unvote;
If you're going to lynch me I might as well try to be useful and not just throw OMGUS votes around.
As a host of games, I don't design them with 1 SK and 2 scums unless it is a mini; it's too easy for the SK to wipe out half the mafia team by himself. It could happen on N1 if he's lucky and there are only two scums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
I figure 3 scums, 1 SK, a couple neutrals, a pair of townie detectives with different uses, and vanillas.
1 scum, 1 SK dead; 1 neutral and we're good to go. :cool:
If that were true I'd give up now.