Booyah!
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Booyah!
If the Illuminati end up too strong in numbers, I'm sure econ21 will balance it out by giving the Imperials more men per capita. The Imperials do have the two most powerful men in the Reich in their camp: the Kaiser and the Chancellor. It would make sense for those two to command armies that were larger than the Dukes or the Viceroy.
Right; ready to suit up for this battle!
I think I will help the Kaiser in this one... still have not forgiven the Illumanti for the Civil War!:laugh4:
Let's keep a running tally of who's on which side for convenience. Please update this as people declare their sides.
Imperial:
Peter von Kastilien
Fritz von Kastilien
Maximilian von Hapsburg
Athalwolf von Salza
Ehrhart Ruppel
Illuminati:
Arnold
Lothar Steffen
Matthias Steffen
Herrman Steffen
Hugo de Cervole
Jan Zirn
Warmaster Horus (No current avatar)
Neutral:
Edmund Becker
Aww, that was what the list was for. :cry:
Anyway, it's Athalwolf von Salza, not Jobst.
The IC list is great, but it doesn't include the Imperials or the Neutrals. It'll be easier for econ21 to sort through this mess when he gets back if we can just point him to a post with all the people in the right places. This battle is going to be big enough as it is, we should do whatever we can to make it easier on him.
Good point.
So how is this working? I assume Econ won't set it up exactly like a single battle, or each stack would be half generals (I suppose he could have more than full stack on each side assuming his comp is better than mine. :clown: ). Will it be broken up somehow?
The only comparison I can think of is the Battle for Rome, which ended the Will of the Senate PBM. It was a field battle, with a grand total of about five and a half armies. Econ pretty much split it into two battles (I believe the precedent he used was Waterloo and Wavre), later merging it into one after certain events.
My guess here is that it will either be the same or two massive battle lines, with each player commanding a "section."
Personally I'd like to see one big battle line, with the sides facing off and the lines pushing this way and that. I think when I kill Lothar ( :clown: ) and smash through the Illuminati lines it should give me the chance to flank his allies and provide advantages to nearby friendly armies.
Econ isn't limited by stack sizes really because he's just using the game to resolve individual unit combat. So we could have 200 companies of DFK fighting 200 of Spearmen in a great big line, in theory, and he could resolve it with an average result and apply it to his time scale to produce a result.
:egypt:
I'd kind of like to see it split into a couple battles, but have them interconnected into a much larger battle.
Just read a long book on the Napoleanic wars and it seemed that each "battle" consisted of a lot of smaller battles by different sections of each army, the results of which affected the main battle.
Can't really say whether medieval battles are the same though.
Another option would be to allow each side to 'pool' the resources of all their commanders. For instance, if each person came with a variety of infantry, missiles, and cavalry (more for people of higher rank) the army as a whole could combine all their units and hand out command of individual sections to particular people. One person could command the center line, one person the left flank, one person the right flank, one person the cavalry, one person the reinforcements, etc. That might make for a more interesting tactical situation than several mini-armies all competing on different sections of a battlefield.
It would nullify the :daisy: :daisy: :daisy: :daisy: :daisy: :daisy: :daisy: :daisy: :daisy: :daisy: :daisy: :daisy: :daisy: :daisy: dice effect too.
Tincow's idea sounds interesting. :yes:
Indeed TC's idea sounds very good.
I like the idea of one massive battle (as large as it can be made, the more epic the better) in which everyone is present. That way it has the feel of everyone involved.
There will be sections engaging as the tactics play out but I envisage something like the battle in Lord of the Rings: The Three Kings in which all major characters have finally gathered in the climatic battle to determine everything.
There could be very significant actions taking place with certain nobles commanding while central command waits before making the next move and then the next.
So who is scarier then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
This is not obvious to me.
I guess it would depend.
If one means "I wouldn't want to meet him in a dark alley" Duke Arnold obviously is.
If one means "Tyrannical ruler who would take away our freedoms and ruin the country if left unchecked" then Kaiser Peter is obviously scarier. ~;)
* Fritz is also scary in his own way but for some reason I see him more as a frightening foe to face at the head of an army but not as much one on one.
*Sorry Ramses I have no idea where this impression came from. :sweatdrop:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieGiant
Regarding the battle, the final decision will be up to econ21, since he's got to design it and run the thing. IIRC, he'll be back on Sunday.
Considering most of the Illuminati are not even Counts while the Imperials all have titles, it would make sense.
Oh and Ruppel will join the Imperials of course.
Bruh? :dizzy2:Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
We have two Dukes, a Viceroy, and a Count. Our supporters are two Counts (Cervole and Bohmen), and I don't know about the Zirns but I imagine Arnold will Count them very quickly if they're not already.
Which ones aren't Counts? Aside from Swabia I think most of the active players have a county already.
GH I'm not sure von Salza ever gave Cervole a county (or Welf for that matter).
Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
*points to sig*
Count of Zagreb. :beam:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Okay, well, the point I was trying to make was that the actual Brotherhood had a decent collection of titles.
Cervole is a knight, not a count. Böhmen lsot his title by going against the Duke.
:laugh4:
Yeah, but the point was that he was a Count before he sided with us.
Naturally you'll lose your title going against a Duke, as I learned firsthand with you.
Part of Böhmen's deal with von Salza way back was that he would retain his County. :yes: Anyway, I don't think Böhmen has picked a side. He has a history of antagonism with Hapsburg over Bruges but as far as I can tell hasn't picked a side yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
I have a feeling the Imperials will end up with at least a slight advantage in numbers, but that's somewhat appropriate IMO. It's not supposed to be easy to overthrow an Emperor.
Well, to be fair, Dassel was never a Count anyway. Hans just skipped him during promotion time :grin:Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Oh, and remember how you said we wouldn't be against each other again with our new characters? Well, looks like we will have Hans vs Dassel MKII :yes:
True, but this time at least it's not as personal.
Actually von Salza officially gave his nobles Counties, Econ just hasn't returned to make official notice of it yet. Warluster PM'd me about it a few days ago, you know, back when I thought de Cervole was on my side. :laugh4:
:egypt:
Hapsburg chose the Imperialist, because, well, he's a Hapsburg. Any other choice wouldn't be right. Besides, I've had enough of rebellion at the moment.
We should start a thread up posting our thoughts or any secret knowledge we have of the game. For example, Chancellors could post whether they were biased against certain houses etc.
Anybody else wanna take over Illuminati Diet Duty? I'm kind of tired of all this pontificating for the moment.
I'm on it!
Wait, it's okay if the Illuminati announce they intend to sacrifice all their allies to Nyarlathotep, right? :beam:
:egypt:
I would but I'm a bit out of the loop secret organizationwise.
*Rolls up magazine and hits Ramses on the nose*
No, bad Ramses, no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Wait, wait, wait... Did someone says Hughes is a Illumanti?
And is Fritz Illumanti?
I'm a bit confused with whose is on whose sides.
Though if you can't tell mine then...
That's of he stayed loyal to Swabia and his Duke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
Fritz is on Peter's side, Hugo de Cervole joined the Illuminati.
I don't think you can take Bohmen's title away for picking the other side, at least not so far as the final battle and the amount of troops he gets for it is concerned. Otherwise you could end up with some silly things.
Just imagine if you were allowed to strip the titles of any Swabian Republicans. Then the Illuminati responds by electing their own Swabian Duke, who attempts to strip all Imperialist Swabians of their titles. Meanwhile, Duke Arnold and the traitor Hapsburg try to strip eachother and the Austrians on each side of all of their titles.
This might all be proper (and amusing :clown: ) were it to occur IC only, but if also applied to the final battle it would be a giant headache for Econ21 when allocating troops, especially since each side will claim to have more legitamacy than the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warluster
As far as I know all Austrian nobles are "titled up" and have been for some time...except for Hapsburg who Igno OOC dropped out just before I was going to give him Venice.
The last change was Johann dying and Max getting Vienna.
That of course still leaves Venice and Ragusa under Arnold's direct control.
And Zim,
I'm a little perturb that after so many write up's and working on Arnold's dread for so long I can be less threatening that Peter :shame: :clown:
As for titles and the ability to strip and counter strip each other, then it makes no difference at this time in my opinion. It's all just points of view. I only say this due to the relative equality of the situation.
Actually, Arnold is more frightening than Peter, hence Mr. "faltering courage" Jan Zirn prefers to fight with him against Peter. :clown:
Well, at some point I did reach a cross road with him Zim. If anyone does go back and reads all his stuff then you will see a point where the stories got more and more gruesome, but then I realised he could not be construed as "evil" by definition and still function inside the game and as a noble of the Reich.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
What I settled on was just as you described. He is frightening but only to those that oppose him. That is what I was aiming for. Of course this can only be effectively written for non player characters. Player characters have to decide themselves how to react to him.
I think you've managed perfectly to create a memorable persona for Arnold. :2thumbsup:
I have to admit, having only seen the Duke from outside the Austrian Duchy, I was quite surprised at first when I began to notice that he treats those he worked with very differently than others.
Indeed. Only those inside the Duchy really saw that. On the outside and even with the rest of the Reich he was substantially different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
Our Austrian PM's at election times was always an example of the contrast. Of course you never saw those and not many Player Characters did.
Of course I'm not talking about any Illuminati work being done behind, behindm, behind the scenes. :beam:
I've only just realised how much I'd missed the intrigue of KotR. We must start up a successor game when it's finally over. It's amazing what this does to a standard single-player campaign of TW.
I have a feeling that the next game we do will fit your play style perfectly, Ignoramus.
:laugh4: There isn't a mod called Hummel: Total War is there? :laugh4:
I can't wait to get a fresh start on any new game... I waited too long to join this one...
It was pretty intimidating seen from the outside
Updated Tally:
Imperial:
Peter von Kastilien
Fritz von Kastilien
Maximilian von Hapsburg
Athalwolf von Salza
Ehrhart Ruppel
Maximillian Zirn
Tancred von Tyrolia
Illuminati:
Arnold
Lothar Steffen
Matthias Steffen
Herrman Steffen
Hugo de Cervole
Jan Zirn
Warmaster Horus (No current avatar)
Neutral:
Edmund Becker
Dieter Bresch
Undecided:
Ludwig von Bohmen
Looks nice and even. I thought Ludwig decided already?Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
I can't tell from the way he's writing IC. deguerra can clarify.
I would expect that Dieter Bresch and Tancred von Tyrolia will also go Imperial, so it should be a pretty even battle. The only other people remaining are those without avatars that I sent PMs to.
Hmmm so the Zirns split?
I'll take Dieter's spit as a vote for the Imperials.
Dieter is siding with Becker, neutral but friendly to the Imperials and wanting Arnold dead, no other illuminati just Arnold. Dieter has a score to settle.
time for one last OOC thread? We are past 20 pages.
OK, well no surprises here, Tancred 'll join the Imperials.
Just wouldn't feel good fighting against two Kastilliens, and Franconia in general.
:balloon2:
Tancred, old sport! Good to have ya back! You wouldn't ditch your old war pal hero, would ya, old sport?
he's got a new war pal now :P we've spent many a decade in Magdeburg together.
I was hoping somebody would pick up on the Gatsby reference.
I try to block out memories of ever having to read that book, thanks. :wall:
What did Arnold do EF? Apart from harrass Dieter a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elite Ferret
You made a damn fine point GH, regarding the whole von Salza thing. If von Salza wasn't so damn stubborn I'd probably swap there and then.
Though if thing's continue; I think von Salza will go for Lothar... still hasn't forgiven him for the Civil War. :grin3: Good poem Tristan!
Thanks but tell that to Rouget de Lisle... The man who wrote "La Marseillaise", the French National anthem...Quote:
Originally Posted by Warluster
I just adapted it a bit here and there...
GH did come out of nowwhere with that Warluster. I'm glad you mentioned his little find. It is pretty impressive actually.
Tristan, also well done on the modified national anthem. I'm ashamed to admit that while it seemed familiar I did not realise it was the French National Anthem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elite Ferret
The bidding may start now, and starting bids should at the very least include an entire country and a cozy castle.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibsonsg91921
On a more serious note, recent events have made a definite choice a bit harder than it seemed at first. Going to think this over a bit more :2thumbsup:
:balloon2:
Boy would I like to be a fly on the wall for that thought process. :beam:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch_guy
Elite Ferret,
OOC for a second, and also seriously. Can you give me some idea as to what the issues is between Arnold and Dieter. I really can't recall. :inquisitive:
uuuuh yeah, about that...I dunno really Dieter needs an enemy and your the best candidate :clown: I can't remember the real reason either but if Dieter wants to kill you but remain neutral it should make the war more balanced than if I joined the Imperials.Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieGiant
I've already given you your choice of counties and you've been sitting in Magdeburg (yours if you want? ;) for years! What more do you want! :clown:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch_guy
how about the fight with Jan, Dieter loved him and didn't forgive you even if he is 'the mercifull'.
Anyway what is the matter? Is the 'scary dread Duke' afraid of a fight?
Hi EF,
yes that does start to make sense now. The whole Jan von Hamburg thing is starting to come back to me and how you were involved.
Thanks for the details EF.
well looks like I have a mad Chancellor and a Dread Duke against me, should be fun :clown:
Heh! Fritz is letting his hair down. No reason to be all restrained and polite now, it's all on the table. Plus, he's getting old, better to settle up before old age gets him. :laugh4:
:egypt:
yeah him and Dieter only have a few years left to end the fued, let it end with a bang!
Hmmm, like most revolutions this seems to have devolved from high minded rhetoric to the settling of long suppressed blood fueds. Yay!
Do we have three factions now? I'm confused.
Peter and Fritz are rather stuck, they are who they are. And let's face it, refusing to support the Kaiser in the face of insurrection would've been the same as high treason. I could see if someone in Outremer wanted to be neutral they'd probably get away with it for the most part due to sheer distance, but Peter gave Dieter his Duchy (Peter's last words as Duke, to Dieter, were 'Bring Franconia back to its former glory and beyond.'), and Becker's history doesn't leave much doubt about his loyalty.
:shrug: If there's a third faction I doubt either of the other two is going to be too tolerant of them if the victory is conclusive. I know what Peter and Fritz will do if they win. :skull: :laugh4:
:egypt:
econ21 should be back today or tomorrow. I think the next step is to simply let him comment on the situation we have developed and move on from there.
Any idea on where the final battle will take place?
Just geographically, it looks like it'll be around Florence, but if we put it there it starts a trend of "major PBM being finished off by an epic PvP battle in Italy", something I don't necessarily feel is good. Perhaps Nuremburg would be the better spot?
I would like it to be in Rome, so we can battle it out to see who will be King of the Romans but that isn't really practical at the moment...
Already had one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elite Ferret
Although I wouldn't mind going 2-0 in civil war battles located in Rome... :devilish:
:bump:
Is this the eery calm before the great storm?
That was the impression I've been getting. Everyon'e had chance to speak out for one side or another, now we're all waiting to see what will actually happen. :yes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northnovas
And thus we wait for our green, hooded cavalry to arrive.
It's nearly time gentlemen,
A few more pieces in place and will shall be right to go...
mwhhaahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
:dizzy2:
Sorry for the slight delay in my return - I've been looking after my father who is unwell. There's quite a bit to digest here, but it seems as if the battlelines have been drawn. I will read through what has transpired and we will start to get things going tomorrow.
Real life > KotR. Take as much time as you need. :yes:
:egypt:
Take all the time in the world. I'm in no hurry to put KOTR to bed anyways.
I say the final battle should be somewhere like Prague, or somewhere in Austria because that's where Fritz was headed and that's where the Grand Master resides. Plus, Italy or Nuremburg is the obvious answer, we oughta spice 'er up a bit.