Capo de Tutti Capi - II [Concluded]

The crappy thing is, both CR being a don and CR being the FBI make perfect sense. I change my mind about him every two minutes, have been for most of the game. I gave most of my opinions two days ago already, when I tried every sort of conspiracy theory possible, and I still couldn't figure it out.

The only thing that is certain in this game is that TinCow is clinically unable to tell the truth. Which unfortunately gets CR into trouble now, since nobody will take TC's word for anything. However, there are clever ways of finding out if CR is really the FBI detective. :yes:

I, for one, would not lynch CR at this moment. I still want to get to the bottom of this. Plus I'm going trough one of those CR = innocent phases at the moment.

Sorry, knew i lost someone..

I mean that he says there was a truce, right? The truce only applys to Don's not killing other Don's...not Don's not killing Townies who secretly act like dons and then post all the info..

As for the fourth sentence, he states that:

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4) The mafia thinks it's better to kill the townies before turning on each other.

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So declaring himself Mafia right there. If hes not, which he will say hes not trust me, then why would he give this as a reason? He is saying he is pro-town repeadtly, so saying "Mafia wont turn on mafia" means he admits this doesnt apply to him ("because he pro-town"), giving the mafia a viable reason to kill him.

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Originally Posted by TruePraetorian

Sorry, knew i lost someone..

I mean that he says there was a truce, right? The truce only applys to Don's not killing other Don's...not Don's not killing Townies who secretly act like dons and then post all the info..

As for the fourth sentence, he states that:


So declaring himself Mafia right there. If hes not, which he will say hes not trust me, then why would he give this as a reason? He is saying he is pro-town repeadtly, so saying "Mafia wont turn on mafia" means he admits this doesnt apply to him ("because he pro-town"), giving the mafia a viable reason to kill him.

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the last 2 sentences in CR's 4 sentence reason are both reasons that apply while he is pertending to be a don

I agree that CR is suspicious but those 2 setences made sense to me as he was talking about whilst pertending to be a don the last 2 would apply, this would be a weak reason to lynch him as it seems to stem from other peoples misunderstandings...

Oh, i read it as his explanation of why the Mafia hasnt killed him yet...but if it is his reason for his lack of Mafia attention then it is a bad reason.

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Originally Posted by TruePraetorian

Sorry, knew i lost someone..

I mean that he says there was a truce, right? The truce only applys to Don's not killing other Don's...not Don's not killing Townies who secretly act like dons and then post all the info..

As for the fourth sentence, he states that:


So declaring himself Mafia right there. If hes not, which he will say hes not trust me, then why would he give this as a reason? He is saying he is pro-town repeadtly, so saying "Mafia wont turn on mafia" means he admits this doesnt apply to him ("because he pro-town"), giving the mafia a viable reason to kill him.

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how do you know the truce only applies to Dons? Anyway didn't only two Dons turn up to the meeting, it would hardly be practical for them to arrange a truce with people they don't know the identity of. I admit you have a point but what you say also makes me suspicious of you.

What's the link to the chatboard CR?

Please use some common sense here. Surely you have all noticed the significant drop off in mafia attacks over the last few nights. This is the direct result of lynchings and vigilante hits coordinated by JimBob, Crazed Rabbit, and myself, with significant help from several other people as well. CR's information was a huge part in making this happen. Surely that is enough to warrant giving CR the benefit of the doubt for one day. Just one day, to wait for the results on Makanyane. Are you really willing to risk lynching a major town asset, when you can find out whether his investigation results are real or not with a very short delay?

I promise you, if the results on Makanyane show that she was not the Tataglia Luca, I will vote for CR to be lynched myself.

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Originally Posted by Elite Ferret

how do you know the truce only applies to Dons? Anyway didn't only two Dons turn up to the meeting, it would hardly be practical for them to arrange a truce with people they don't know the identity of. I admit you have a point but what you say also makes me suspicious of you.

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I assume since its a Don meeting only the Don's had the truce..why would they declare a "im not gonna kill you" pact if one of the people attending betrayed them? Point being, if someone snuck into some government meeting and got secret information i doubt that the government would let them off easy..

Elite, sorry for accusing you...with your lack of posting and then a random vote, i assumed you have been hiding and only posting to vote..with good reason seeing that you "selected" on the wrong day :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Please use some common sense here. Surely you have all noticed the significant drop off in mafia attacks over the last few nights. This is the direct result of lynchings and vigilante hits coordinated by JimBob, Crazed Rabbit, and myself, with significant help from several other people as well. CR's information was a huge part in making this happen. Surely that is enough to warrant giving CR the benefit of the doubt for one day. Just one day, to wait for the results on Makanyane. Are you really willing to risk lynching a major town asset, when you can find out whether his investigation results are real or not with a very short delay?

I promise you, if the results on Makanyane show that she was not the Tataglia Luca, I will vote for CR to be lynched myself.

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No, that's pretty irrelevant. It's possible to find out if someone is a luca. Remember the tataglia family is on the chatboard. If the tataglia mentioned that their luca was a "she" then it's simple elimination. CR hasn't posted the link to the chatboard. There are other ways he could have come across information as well, but what you continue to ignore is that there is NO way he could have gotten into the meeting with the old pm. How do you think that could have happened tincow? You are making yourself sketchier and sketchier.

also..., if you not forgot Mak was "Tataglia, Rank Unknown" when JimBob posted results firstly.......

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

what you continue to ignore is that there is NO way he could have gotten into the meeting with the old pm.

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I believe that email chain he produced is real. That email chain shows that Don Capo accepted CR's role, even though he made mistakes with it. If he accepted CR's role, then he would have admitted him. Someone is making a major mistake here, either you or I. Clearly it would then be possible for the mafia to make a similar mistake.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

How do you think that could have happened tincow? You are making yourself sketchier and sketchier.

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I put you in touch with CR myself, allowing you to get this information, because I was convinced that you were pro-town and wanted to bring you into the group. Now, because I am standing up for the person that I believe to be the FBI Detective, you call me sketchy? You wouldn't even have been contacted by CR if I hadn't successfully argued that you were pro-town in the first place.

Sasaki, think back to the information I gave you on the identity of another pro-town asset. An important one. CR has known the identity and role of that person for a long time. Why hasn't that person been killed? What Don in their right mind would let that person live one night, let alone three or four?

A don that wasn't himself want to die? If he can succesfully impersonate the fbi detective then he's safe.

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Someone is making a major mistake here, either you or I. Clearly it would then be possible for the mafia to make a similar mistake.

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No it's not a similar mistake. I'm talking about how there's no way the don corleone mistook one pm piece for another.

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Now, because I am standing up for the person that I believe to be the FBI Detective, you call me sketchy?

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I have a hard time believing you'd be naive enought to trust him completely.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

I have a hard time believing you'd be naive enought to trust him completely.

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Of course I don't trust him completely. The only person I trusted completely was JimBob, due to Glenn's reveal. I grew to trust CR over time because JimBob backed him and because I've interacted with him a great deal over the past couple weeks. Eventually, I felt the cumulative evidence was enough to trust him, so I did. I made a judgment call, just as you have done. I also don't find the arguments against CR convincing in the least. They are being distorted regularly by confirmed mafioso like Andres and Sigurd. CR is being misquoted, the facts taken out of context, and everyone accusing him is being incredibly hypocritical. He has so far answered every question you have asked (except for the chat room thing, which I expect him to produce whenever he gets back online) with answers that seem reasonable and evidence that seems real. Yet you brush them aside at a whim with reasoning that is just as poor-quality as you blame CR for producing.

Sasaki, I do believe that you are pro-town, but I certainly hope you've got big plans and lots of contacts, because you've just single-handedly nuked everything I had going.

I'm rather limited by being dead (thanks chaps) in what I can say but would like to point some things out to the town regarding CR's claimed FBI results:

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Originally Posted by Game Rules

A Luca appears “criminal” if investigated by a Detective or Made, but “guilty” only on the night of a killing even if they have participated in killings before.

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CR says

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N3
Twilightblade = criminal

Makanyane = guilty

N5
Joe Monks = criminal

Makanyane = guilty N5, Tataglia Luca from outset of game.

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Kills taken from quick reading of story thread:

Kills on N3
Glenn - Weather Balloon mafia
Beefy - Weather Balloon mafia
Pannonian - Ballet Shoes (Stracchi according to posts in thread)
Taka - Wise Guy group (think they were revealed in thread, not sure)
Zorg - Rose mafia (Barzini according to posts in thread)

Kills on N5
Chimyang - Rose mafia - (Barzini)
Kamikaan - Destiny mafia
Motep - Ballet Shoes - (Stracchi)
Rythmic - 4 killer vig squad - assume a few townies know composition of that...
Woad&Fangs - solo kill with Card

can anyone spot a problem - or figure out which two kills I'm meant to be guilty of on those two nights, erm especially if I'm meant to be the Luca staying at home protecting my Don?

maybe we're not giving these poor guys enough time to fabricate their evidence.

As a mafia newb here my head is spinning in circles....

first off i hope craterus is guilty even though i have barely any reason to suspect him, my vote went on him as more of a don't lynch CR vote, so sorry for that.

Sasaki the one thing that leads me to believe the TC CR combo is thier steady stream of results they've given us have been fairly accurate although the last day or 2 has made them seem suspicious doesn't the days before somewhat count against this suspicion ? or do you have another reason to suspect the 2 ? (please tell)

How realistic is the possibility of a Don falling for CR's ploy, it seemed fairly possible to me, maybe a newbie mafia player would fall for such a thing....

I've seen a whole lot of reveals. Many are fake--any mafioso worth his salt can fake a reveal. Even when you trust someone you should consider the possibility that they are a mafioso.

The only way I can see CR being innocent is if don corleone sent him to a fake board to fool him when he realized he wasn't the don. I think it's a distant possibility but that's one reason I want to see the chatboards.

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

As a mafia newb here my head is spinning in circles....

first off i hope craterus is guilty even though i have barely any reason to suspect him, my vote went on him as more of a don't lynch CR vote, so sorry for that.

Sasaki the one thing that leads me to believe the TC CR combo is thier steady stream of results they've given us have been fairly accurate although the last day or 2 has made them seem suspicious doesn't the days before somewhat count against this suspicion ? or do you have another reason to suspect the 2 ? (please tell)

How realistic is the possibility of a Don falling for CR's ploy, it seemed fairly possible to me, maybe a newbie mafia player would fall for such a thing....

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Mafia have detectives as well and will pursue the other families.

Mak makes a good point. From CR's alleged fbi pm:

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“Guilty” includes Mades and Wise Guys on the night of a kill as well as any Townie who has ever been involved in a killing.

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But where was it said that the barzini's were the rose group? Was that in the failed hit on andres when he was director? I have to look it up.

Unvote: Crazed Rabbit, Vote: Abstain

Not convinced yet, but need to catch up first

unvote, vote Crazed Rabbit

...if voting's still open. Self-preservation tbh, I'm not the person you're looking for.

EDIT: bolding vote, hope that's ok.

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Originally Posted by S.K.

The only way I can see CR being innocent is if don corleone sent him to a fake board to fool him when he realized he wasn't the don.

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How deliciously wicked that would be. If that happened, I take my hat off to that player.

vote: Craterus

Craterus, If we've (OK, if I've) been fooled by a false accusation, and you end up clean... my deepest apologies. However, your innocence, along with the results on Mak will prove or disprove C.Rabbit's claims. And if he turns out scummy after that, we'll kill him.

When does the phase end? Current tally please?

Bah, no clue what the tally is and really torn on whether Crazed Rabbit should die. I find it preposterous that he could actually infiltrate the Don meeting the way it's supposed, but I'll keep abstaining since I have no idea at this point if my vote creates a tie, a double lynch or gets Crazed off. Have to get back to work so no time for a tally from me, sorry

FWIW, Crazed forwarded me the PMs he and I exchanged where I did in fact send him my old Donna role in CDTC1, but that's a moot point now anyway

Well, the phase ends in less than 2 hours and the current tally (using LittleGrizzly's from a while back) is:

Tally as of post 2783
Craterus - 7 (CR, EliteFerret, TinCow, Cowhead, Myrddraal, LittleGrizzly, Kukri)
Crazed Rabbit 6 (Sasaki, CA, Joe Monks, Kage, TP, Craterus)
Charge - 1 (Xehh II)
Abstain - 1 (Prole)

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Originally Posted by Louis

This is the 'rose' group. All coloured roses are from the same group, the Barzini's. So, these hits below are all from the same, rather powerful, family:

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Louis, where did you get this? If it is true then it's proof that CR is lying about mak being the tataglia luca.

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Originally Posted by Andres

So, if I give decent pro-town advice, you are going to ignore it?

Tsk, tsk, tsk :no:

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So if JimBob is lying and gives bad advice and wrong results we're supposed to listen to him? :inquisitive:

Ok, this is to all of you. Does anyone remember the text of the hit on andres from night three? It said "prego, don barzini", but I can't find it to see if the killers left a rose. If they did then makanye can't be in the tataglia family and CR must be a don.

Vote Crazed Rabbit

To tie it up

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Surely that is enough to warrant giving CR the benefit of the doubt for one day. Just one day, to wait for the results on Makanyane.

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Based on this, I'm proposing that we vote for a 'confirmed' mafia - gibson or another, TinCow? I just see no reason why I should be lynched 'just to not lynch CR' (thanks Kage, couldn't have put it better myself).

Right now, you're killing one pro-town player to save another, ridiculous.

If everyone would like to sitch their votes from Craterus to Ichigo or Charge, I will agree to that. Craterus has never been my first choice for lynching.

Funky game, CR could indeed be the FBI detective, can't really tell anymore. ~D