What are you're Roman Legion composition in EB? in all reforms? I'm still in the early years 265 BC actually, but I'd like to be as historical as possible in composition.
Thanks!
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What are you're Roman Legion composition in EB? in all reforms? I'm still in the early years 265 BC actually, but I'd like to be as historical as possible in composition.
Thanks!
A basic legion would be 1 general 1 triarii 2 principes 2 hastati plus 2 skirmisher units.
If you search the forum you will find lots of more detailed info.
First question for me would be, do you want a stack to be a consular army (pre-Marian)? Such an army consisted usually of two legions and the allies, resulting in about 20000 soldiers. In this case a legion could be composed like samba_liten says. Then double it roughly (without a second general and so) and add allied units in the same strength. If one stack should be a legion, double the units.
I have never played Rome long enough to reach the Marian reforms, so I cannot say much. Mostly normal heavy infantry and a few auxiliar units in a stack would be my composition.
My legions:
1 x general
1 x Triarii (reduced in size)
2 x Principes (normal size)
2 x Hastati (normal size)
1 x Velites (normal size)
:inquisitive: So where are the Eqvites...?
I believe a Camillan Legion should have equal Hastati, Principes and Triarii. So should look as so: one Accensii, one Leves, one Hastati, one Principes, one Triarii, one Rorarii. Personally I use FMs as cavalry. You would add a pretty much equal amount of allies, mainlu Italic at your stage.
Pretty sure the Romans were pretty insistent on having cavalry cover on *both* wings, though.
My legion composition:
My Camillan Army
1x general
1x equites
1x campanian cavalry
4x hastati
4x principes
4x triarii
1x pedites extraordinarii
2x accensi
2x velites/mercenaries
My Polybian Army
1x general
1x equites extraordinarii
4x hastati
4x principes
4x triarii
2x pedites extraordinarii
2x velites
2x accensi
My Marian Army
2x general
2x Gallic auxiliary cavalry
2x First cohort
8x Legionary cohort
2x antesignani
2x evocata
2x mercenaries/archers/skirmisher/miscalleneous
My Augustan Imperial Army
1x Faction Leader/Heir
2x Praetorian Cavalry
2x Imperial cavalry wing
1x First imperial cohort
4x imperial cohort
2x praetorian cohort
2x antesignani
2x auxiliary cohorts
4x imperial archers
If you were interested:
Historical Camillan Compositions
15 groups leves (together with the hastati) : 300 men
15 hastati manipels : 900 men
15 principes manipels : 900 men
45 manipels (15 ordi) triarii, accensi and rorarii : 2.700 men
Total troop strength, without cavalry : 4.800 men
Augustan Army sizes and legion composition
1 Contubernium = 8 men
10 Contubernia = 1 Centurie (80 men)
2 Centuries = 1 Manipel (160 men)
6 Centuries = 1 Cohort (480 men)
10 Cohorten + 120 cavalry = 1 Legion (5240 men)*
*1 legion = 9 normal cohorts (9 x 480) + the first cohort (exists out of 5 manipels, so 5 x 160) + 120 cavalry, is a total of 5.240 men.
Hope that helps!
~Fluvius
In an ongoing campaign, I use the following composition for my legions (based on this post: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=101787 ); I'm still the polybian period, and the composition has not changed much from the camillan period:
for a legion (halfstack); so a consular legion is two of these
1 general
1 hastati
1 principes
1 triarii
1 leves
+ alae:
1 allied skirmisher
2 allied infantry
1 allied cavalry
1 elite infantry (pedites/hoplite)
examples of allied skirmisher/infantry/cavalry sets:
Ligurian:
Ligurian cavalry
Ligurian infantry
Celtic Archers
Sicilian:
Hippeis
Syracusan hoplites (modded the EDB to allow recruitment)
Toxotai/peltastai
But I've yet to reach the Marian era, so I don't have the composition for a legion of that era, but you might want to refer to the link I posted above
My camillian/polybian armies are divided into two halves:
Roman legion:
General
1 triarii
2 principes
2 hastatii
1 roraii
1 accensi
1 velites
1 equites
Allied legion:
2 elite infantry
2 heavy infantry
2 light infantry
2 skirmisher
1 ranged
1 cavalry
My marian army is:
Roman legion:
General
6 cohors reformata
1 first cohort
1 cohors evocota
1 antisignai
Allied legion:
4 skirmishers
2 ranged
2 cavalry
2 cavalry/heavy skirmishers/light infantry
*edit* forgot the first cohort
I try to approach composition not so much from a view of forcing the historical composition into the game engine constraints, but from achieving historically important tactical goals within the limitations imposed by the engine. I want cavalry to screen the flanks and charge pinned enemies, so I keep 2 equites. When I can afford it, I want 2 jav cav in the form of Campanians to harass before contact, melee, and pursue routers (especially routed family member heavy cav, which they are faster than). I keep 2 triarii, 3 principes, and 4 hastati in a pyramid version of the triplex acies, as that preserves most of the tactical benefit of the 4-4-3 historical system for a 4 unit front while reducing the number of units from 11 to 9. In the Camillan era, I use 2 units of rorarii either on the flanks of the principes as a flanking cavalry sponge, or in a thin line in front of the hastati as a screen to pin infantry in place for the hail of pila. 2 units of leves and one of slingers deploy in front set to skirmish, and I keep a unit of archers in the back between the triarii and the general behind them. In Polybian, I'll use hastatii Samnitici in place of the rorarii and allied slingers in place of the accensi.
For an allied army, I'll use 4 medium infantry staggered up front, two heavy infantry and a pedites extraordinari as my second line, 2 heavies in reserveand a pair of spearmen on the second line flanks, with cav, skirmishers, slinger and archer per the above, and either a family member or an equites extraordinarii as general.
Haven't made it to the Marians yet, but am thinking 4 cohorts up front, 2 plus a first cohort in the second line, 2 cohorts in the 3rd as reserve, and an auxilliary spearman on each 2nd line flank with skirmisher and cav support.
Correct me if I am totally wrong here...Quote:
Originally Posted by everyone
Weren't the Socii the Roman allies and the Alae Roman auxiliary cavalry?
~Fluvius
Alae is Latin for Wing, the Socii were on the wings, so their contingents were alae. Later, because most cavalry was A: non-Roman and B: on the flank, it became customary to refer to a cavalry formation as an "alae".
Realy well historicaly , i was thinking a polybian will be 5 hastati 5 princepes, 2 velites, 2 equites and 3 triari and the rest alies and auxiliares, this will be a full legion , on post marian units in each legion will be 10 cohorts with 1cohorth inc. , and the rest is auxiliares , inc.aleie cav wel at leats is what i read in the books :P well i try folowing this formation
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=101787 did you check this link out? Basically you should just do what you think is the most fun, but historically that would be too many romans in the army. I find it to be more enjoyable playing with an army that is more historical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven
well im saying that becouse how can you put one legion in chess formation (quintus) with only these cohorths, it doesnt make much sence, normaly what i read some time a go and saw on other forums was the core roman legion made by romans in chess formation and the alies on the flanks,alies army,infantary and cavalary. In post marian legion, 1 legion was compose by 10 cohorts, each,And each cohort had 500 to 900 plus man,maybe more sometimes of course the cohorts varius in type, evocata, veterani, praetorian, first cohort etc.As well Auxiliares wich number was arround thousands in the flanks. well in game you can put whatever you want truly :) whats more fun indeed, but game engine its diferent, maybe to represent that these formations were created.i belive its another way of putting things, to balance gameplay as for reaching more fun while playing the most historical possible. But that comes in manny forms, its important for each player have his on rules to achieve that. This guide show this i belive :P
What im saying is i made my own rules, i like playing historical too, but to do that i dont have exactly folow these rules. :)
I'd recommend Konny's Allied Legions mod in the unofficial mods section. It allows you to recruit Bruttians, Ligurians etc in Italic settlements, in fact you can only recruit high end latin troops in Rome.
Also give a nice description of Camillan/Polybian Consular Armies including the allied legions.
One of the best add on mods for EB I feel and I've found very stable.
In fact Bruttians are my favourite Roman unit!
Camillan
4 Hastati
4 principes
4 Triarii
4 Accensi/ Leves
3 Cavalry (any really)
1 general
My battle setup is traditional
Polybian
4 Hastati
4 principes
4 Triarii
4 Velites
3 Cavalry (any really)
1 general
My battle setup is traditional
I have been known to replace the velites with archers when dealing with eastern factions. My primary goal is always to capture crete to secure the archers.
Marian/Augustan
10 Cohorts
4 Cavalry (any, but generally auxilia of some sort)
5 archers (generally i will use cretan archers, but from attrition I generally have to recruit locals to replace losses)
1 General
I have two battle setups
C = Cohort
A = Cavalry
M = Archer
A C - C - C - C - C A
A C - C - C - C - C A
M M M M M
A C C C C C A
A C C C C C A
M M M M M
Generally I employ the former when fighting eastern factions where I have to manuever around a phalanx. the latter I employ so as to provide easy reinforcements when fighting the "barbarian factions". I have found this setup most effective especially when defending. Fighting on hard I have been able to destroy 25% of an army before they hit my legionaries (before they throw there pila). Again generally I use cretan archers, which are quite superior to most others, the effectiveness of the setup goes down when useing other archers
There's already threads on Barbaropolis army compositions, try searching for them.
Your formations are not bad in terms of gameplay, though I think the composition and formation are more of a Late Roman variety.
I know, we get these every month :no:. Just like the monthly LS threads of the good old days...Quote:
Originally Posted by satalexton
Checker board was a Marian invention wasn't it?
If by that you mean the manipular formation it was the result of the Samnite Wars, which would be Polybian, not Marian reforms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic_Punk
At it again?? Tell me, what have you learned this week??Quote:
Originally Posted by satalexton
I am no fan of Sata, in fact he is on my ignore list, but he does not actually do anything wrong here except possibly calling Rome some silly byname... be fair.
He is actually not for once screaming, "burn Barbaropolis!", merely saying what many others do to those recurring "once-a-month-questions" that the answer is around in abundance if one searches for it- especially in the AAR and gameplay guides section.
Be fair, go for the ball, not the man. No need for personal persecution, Sata as well as others has a right to contribute usefully.
When pointing a finger at others, how many is it that points at yourself? Who is attacking someone now? Were we not meant to stop and behave in a restrained way (though it evades me that we ever left it)?
I will shut my gob now, for I am no angel myself. Just saying, give him a break when he actually behaves himself.
QS's guide is extremely useful, though abit outdated.
Yes, even I find it useful :clown: How best to wipe them out Cannae style, for one.
I didn't make this thread, I was searching for somtehting like this thread, and this is wat I got.
I really don't want to listen to your petty personal fighting. I simply brough back a slightly older thread on a topic I wanted to talk about, I felt it would have been better than making anohter thread that others woul have to search for.
I always get excited when I see a reply on a thread to whic I just posted, and that feeling is always trashed when I have to see petty bickering.
Well, I for one, agree with you. No matter how small a transgression is, it is a transgression. No Romaioiktonoi means no Romaioiktonoi, and not "no wasabi on Thursdays" or anything of that sort. You see, another thread is now derailed because of a single word.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchhoplite
People indeed, learn very little. But of course, punishment tends to speed up the learning process; you can tell a child all you want about the dangers of fire, but he/she will only learn once they got burned.
It wouldn't be that bad if you just ignored the "Barbaropolis" and read it as "Rome", would it? Overreacting tends to quicken derailment, doesn't it?
Wait a minute! Calling him out has effectively derailed the thread more than if you moved on! Aww, shucks.
When playing as the Romans, I immediately ditch the Equites. Wastes of mnai, those suckers. Campanians are more versatile, and since both aren't meant to charge, there's no sense in recruiting native Roman cavalry. The set-up tends to go like this.
3 Leves
3 Hastati
3 Principes
3 Triarii
3 Rorarii
2 Campanians
2 Accensi
And of course, the general. It's not terribly efficient, but the closest to historical I can get without resorting to those bloated aristocrats and their ponies.
Could Pedites Extraordinarii fit anywhere? They are allies, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Very Super Market
what order do you place your leves rorarii and accensi, or do unot placed them in sequence. I actually like the idea of less cavalry. do u keep them just for mopping up or actually use them as a hammr