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I mean, what's the best of the "crappy class" infantry that you find the best to put in use as massive staple of your Imperial army?
Giving their wide acess, and cost-upkeep comparison... with their performance...
Need the EB-ers opinion....
Cute Wolf
(nb: Please wait for the pools to be shown)
Hastati - cheap as you like and don't break easily. I suppose they fall under shortswordsmen so I'll go with that. Although Hoplitai provide a good rock around which to base things...
Haploi, I destroyed Makedonia and Epeiros with just Haploi and Akontistai
drap ftw , though why you do you not have daoi on there?
Some of those cheap axemen are great staple troops.
the najraanis*-they count as crazy levy, along with the drapanai.
*"red sea" axmen.
Of that list the Phalangitai Deuteroi are probably the best unit classified as levies.
It would depend on your faction, as the Koinen Hellenon the Hoplitai Haploi are a live saver for their quality and money. The Phalangitai Deuteroi as Makedonia are very strong units but then again also have a much higher cost. These units probably followed by the Germanic Levies, they seem to be a somewhat good levy unit as well seeing that had to be worthy of their freedom and were in war since childhood. :idea2:
A hard choice between skirmishers like akontistai and spendonetai on the one hand, and rorarii and hastati on the other. Skirmishers are my preferred garrisson units. They're excellent for dealing damage to bigger armies, but they will need some help from more professional units.
Although personally still thinks the archer -spearmen class is the best in term of numbers compared to the cost and effectiveness (Persian archer spearmen is terribly damn cheap but still good so they do worth their lives as bulk of my lines to absorb (and reply) any prolonged missile battle that I do when mowing down Seleukid and Pahlavans. ), I was surprised that no one mention Pantodapoi... I remember someone says them as surprisingly good unit... but at least, no one loves meatshielding much I guess...
And about what I told about "crazy levies" yes... that was "levy class" troops that best deployed against much better units.. because they have terribly effective attack... ultra high morale.... or (OMFG what did they do to my Hypaspistai?!?) such as drapanai and Red sea axemen (they pwnd one of my Saka FM!)...
I agree with you on the pantodapoi. They're quite cost effective when playing in the early seleucid campaign. But I particularly dislike the persian archer spearmen, preferring the persian archer instead. At least they have fast moving + good stamina, which seems more important to me than actual combat stats. (I mean, I don't like to trust persian archer spearmen not go get routed by even the lowest and most depleted of all enemy cavalry-units.)
kind regards,
Andy
Well, you should try Baktrian campaign, and see, what the Saka and Pahlavans sent to you.... a full stack of HA's..... at least when I was the saka myself, I was able to charge Thanvare Payahdag with my worst HA's head on easily, and that safe my ammo greatly... but Nizagan-i Eranshar will give a headache because their spears will ensure my HA's to be poked to the death. Against those grey death infantrymen, they also still had a chance, actually a big chance to stab the depleted survivors of pantodapoi, try to reach them... but Those thanvare payahdag can't hold better. They also had 25 mnai more on upkeep... something that you'll think about when you goes nuts and keep 14 units of them in one army (the rest is cav...)Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy1984
Drapanai are definitely not "crappy". Their cost/upkeep may give the impression of a mere levy unit, but I count them as among the highest-tier units in the Getic roster (and in the whole game, even).Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf
Quite true. They have twice the morale of most levy units, plus they are surely not meant to be as numerous as the Komatai skirmishers (whom I wouldn't place in the same category as Akontistai btw.).Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontline1944
so that's why i had "crazy levy" type.... levies that supposed to surpass elite units :laugh4:
Recently I started a campaign with the casse, and I have to say that their cheap Shortswordsmen are amazing for how little they cost. Sure they get tore up by any sort of concentrated missile fire, but the sheer number of them you can field more than makes up for their vulnerabilities. And if you happen to get a few squads behind their line, their javelins are just plain devastating.
peltastai, multi-roled. also serve as decent settlement stormers/manspam.
Hoplitai Haploi :2thumbsup:
I agree. Hoplitai Haploi are very good units. If properly used they can defeat even stronger opponents(but not elites though).
If those leavy phalangits also count, then the Phalangitai Pandatopai.
Archer-spearmen, cheap, flexible, bombards enemy with arrows and then finishes them with spears.
The cheap longswordsman unit for the Gauls(The shirtless one) is great.
But best levy unit IMO is probably Hoplitai Haploi because of their versatility and formation.
It depends heavily on your playing style. For my Baktrian very varied armies, Archer-Spearmen are pretty good.
They fire arrows, supoorting Persian Archers. They hold the line for a while, supporting my Phalanxes' flanks until melee troops arrived. They are double-role unit and they are damn cheap, i think it counts very much. For a few bucks you will have 2 levy units in one.
Speaking of which, the Dorkim Shardanim are pretty good also, they're the archer spearmen of the west. I send boatloads of them down to Carthage, good garrison units.
if you can't afford proper hoplites then haploi will save your ass, as long as they're flanks are secure they can be depended on. Keep them in the core of your line. They refuse to give ground and give a good account of themselves. They can easily kill over twice their casualties if used correctly. Remember, centre of the line. keep your proper men on the flanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalanx300
A favourite tactic of mine is to pull your haploi centre back, let their men rush forward, and create a long V with your men on the outside and them on the inside. charge with the centre and take them off guardmode, if you have cavalry run them down the centre of the V and everything will rout.
Sounds like the Hannibal Barca tactic lives on. Does work well though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic_Punk
I took the 'crazy levies' option. Draps (to CHAAAARRRRGEE) combined with horsearchers ( to draw missile fire from the Draps) works for me.
Hoplitai Haploi gets mauled by anything with a sword though.
I like the archer spearmen (whatever their faction and flavor) as the best all around levies. As far as acting as the "anvil" I'd say the deutoroi or pantodopai phalangitai, though, and for all around melee I'd likely choose those celtic short swordsmen or Domatai...
The levy phalanx, especially the Pantodapoi Phalangitai. Will hold the line against frontal assaults by all except the elitiest of units; just have their flanks secured by other troops and they can keep on pinning forever. Not to mention a BIG area of recruitment. The local ( = Pantodapoi ) variety also has AP axes as their secondary weapon, so they deal surprisingly good damage vs heavily armoured foes if forced to fight out of formation. Their large head count per unit also makes them very effective garrison troops.
Phalangites are anvils, not hammersQuote:
Originally Posted by Zim
Since when are javelineers or archers categorized as infantrymen? :inquisitive:
As for the rest that actually fit to the title, I'd go for the Haploi. They are quite reliable in holding a line, even against superior forces and numbers. As long as provided with reasonable protection at the flanks and some decent Strategos to keep them motivated.
Maion