Roman tactics against Barbarians.

I'm sorry if there's already tons of threads about this. But I started a new Romani Campaign, and would like to vanquish the world of Barbarians (Maybe not the greeks, they're too smart for themselves- better off as slaves).

I tried using the checkerboard formation, but I find that other than historical accuracy it gives me no real edge on the battlefield. In fact, my hastati tends to take alot of casualties because they're locally surrounded.

Anyone got ideas to help me? Every barbarian blood is worth less than 1 drop of Roman blood. ROMA VICTRIX!!!:laugh4:

made sure you turn the pilum to fire at will, as this thing will punish most of that half nudist barbarians heavily, and made sure your princepes bahind your hastati line doing this as well... after that, you'll face half depleted units of barbarians, and your hastati will have much easier job than become mere meatshelds for princepes.

and if you use cammilan hastati, they are basically worthless crap coming in small numbers, wait for polybian to get real hastati (with real fighting skills)

Whenever I take Italy in campaigns, I make heavy use of Roman troops in my local armies. They are effective for two main reasons:

1. Swords: While no longsword, their weapon is highly effective against other infantry.
2. Shields: They've got a nice, big shield and good armour stat for their low cost. This makes them well suited for exchanging javelins, which happens a lot between infantry in the European theater in EB.

I find that pila have to be used like other javelins to be effective: against unprepared enemies, from the flanks and rear. From the front they can be effective against less armored troops, but not as much as you would think.

Generally, I have my Hastati engage my enemies from the front, discharging all pila (if possible) before wading into melee. Swords are better against infantry than spears, and I'd rather send the swordsmen in first. In my Epeirote-Italic armies, I'd have the Thureophoroi deployed on the flanks to perform flanking tasks (Principes will work for Romans) as their spears aren't ideal for engaging enemy infantry when compared with the gladius, and I'd rather minimize their melee exposure. Also, this keeps the Principes available to fend off enemy cavalry.

Another good strategy is to have your Hastati and similar troops form a shieldwall (BI only) and let the enemy rush on - the shieldwall lets the unit hold its ground well (especially with guard mode on). Then, send your designated flankers (principes, thureophoroi) around to smash the enemy from the flanks.

Heavy/elite units, such as Triarii, I tend to prefer in reserve (like the romans did) as this way they can be deployed to turn the tide of battle when needed, but not sacrificed against large numbers of
enemies. The shieldwall tactic is also effective with the elites/heavies doing the shieldwall, as they will hold it very well even if the enemy flanks around it.

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Originally Posted by pikeman

...vanquish the world of Barbarians (Maybe not the greeks, they're too smart for themselves- better off as slaves).

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Originally Posted by pikeman

Every barbarian blood is worth less than 1 drop of Roman blood. ROMA VICTRIX!!!

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I'd be very careful about making statements like that on this forum, even jokingly. You'll be butchered alive.

But life before romans were savage, decadent and/or uncivilized, we have to thank the Romans for all the technological and cultural legacies they've left us. (I know english is germanic, but it has been civilized with a lot of latin-root words. Heck, even German needs latin alphabet to be useable.)

:) It's nice to play in my own hands the rise of the greatest civilization on earth.

Then again, thanks gamegeek for the advice! I just hit Polybian reforms and the hastati turned out to be much better than before!

Is it me, or do they literally wield better weapons now? I find them alot better when it comes to holding a charge from those gaulish rabble. They take horrible casualties when charged by cavalry though, I can't imagine what will happen if I start civilizing the east.....(I can't recruit leves/roraii to take cavalry charges now!! and the principes also use hastati swords)

You should definitely play one of those 'uncivilized' factions and/or read about their history. EB focuses on depicting all factions as they were in reality, not how they were in school books.
And yes, you should stop flaming against other cultures, this is not welcome on this board and its users. And don't flame back on him.

XSamatan

Actually, because of how wonderful EB i found, I bought the box-set of HBO Rome and the Blu-Ray set of Gladiator :)

p.s. I am aware of the Lorica Segmentata being inaccurate bits. :)

UPDATE: I solved the cavalry killing romans problem by placing LOTS of Triarii in front as the line holders. =)

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Originally Posted by Badass Buddha

I'd be very careful about making statements like that on this forum, even jokingly. You'll be butchered alive.

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Actually, we Romaioktonoi study Roman military to find new ways to defeat them and thus we also know how Romans can defeat those whom they call barbarians and we can help a Roman general when he asks. (actually, I play as Romans sometimes)

I agree with CW, turn auto-fire on, it works wonders on charging units to get a bunch of javelins straight into face, it can cause massive rout, especially against Celts, but perhaps against Germans you will have to come with something else as their units have higher morale.

And to the other topic, Romans were uncivilised and savage in the begining, but they built their civilisation on advanced technology of Etruscans and Hellenes and of course when they had something to start with, they added their own new improvements and inventions. I would compare them to Aztecs, who took up Mayan and Olmecan technology. Someone with more knowledge in history could comment this and confirm or correct me, please.

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Originally Posted by pikeman

Every barbarian blood is worth less than 1 drop of Roman blood.

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I would beg to difer here, but you will see with time after playing lots of EB.

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Originally Posted by pikeman

ROMA VICTRIX!!!:laugh4:

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Well your into the roleplaying thats for sure.

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Originally Posted by pikeman

But life before romans were savage, decadent and/or uncivilized, we have to thank the Romans for all the technological and cultural legacies they've left us.

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I suspect you have read or learned quite little history. We don't own everything to the romans.

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Originally Posted by pikeman

Is it me, or do they literally wield better weapons now?

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Yes, they copied thoose of the peoples you call "barbarians"...

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Originally Posted by pikeman

I am aware of the Lorica Segmentata being inaccurate bits. :)

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Now thats good news - EB is alrady starting to enlighten you.

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Originally Posted by pikeman

UPDATE: I solved the cavalry killing romans problem by placing LOTS of Triarii in front as the line holders. =)

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This reminds me of one the tactics for Romans: outnumber the enemy with masses of troops (they historically did that quite often).

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Originally Posted by pikeman

Anyone got ideas to help me?

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I think the others have already given you more advice then I could, so good luck with yourcampaign and please try so ofter faction then the romans...

I haven't played with Romans for a very long time, but there's a couple of things that makes Romans very hard to beat. I had some hard time fighting against AI and human players in online battles. You'll see the main strenght of Romans if you follow this advices:

- Fight only with fullstacks, always outnumber your enemy and you will be able to kill them very easily.
- Spawn massive triari/pedites extraordinari armies, and show the rest of the world who's the boss.
-No matter how small and weak the enemy army may be, always attack with your fullstacks composed of your hard-core infantry. Attack enemy levies with pedites and triari only, and show your true strenght as a Roman general, and always yell "Roma vitrix!"
- Roman units are cheap, so use that advantage and build a lot of unbeatable armies. As a Roman, you have the privilege to build very cheap main army, to protect your homeland. A massive cheap army composed of elites, together with your faction leader would be optional.
-No matter what you conquer, always enslave everything: spoil whatever you can, and bring barbarian treasury to Rome: by doing that, Rome will glitter in its full brightness as a true center of the known world.

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Originally Posted by Jebivjetar

I haven't played with Romans for a very long time, but there's a couple of things that makes Romans very hard to beat. I had some hard time fighting against AI and human players in online battles. You'll see the main strenght of Romans if you follow this advices:

- Fight only with fullstacks, always outnumber your enemy and you will be able to kill them very easily.
- Spawn massive triari/pedites extraordinari armies, and show the rest of the world who's the boss.
-No matter how small and weak the enemy army may be, always attack with your fullstacks composed of your hard-core infantry. Attack enemy levies with pedites and triari only, and show your true strenght as a Roman general, and always yell "Roma vitrix!"
- Roman units are cheap, so use that advantage and build a lot of unbeatable armies. As a Roman, you have the privilege to build very cheap main army, to protect your homeland. A massive cheap army composed of elites, together with your faction leader would be optional.
-No matter what you conquer, always enslave everything: spoil whatever you can, and bring barbarian treasury to Rome: by doing that, Rome will glitter in its full brightness as a true center of the known world.

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that's why in my opinion, Triarii should be downed into 60 men per unit, but raise hastati and princepes to 120 men (and raise their price a bit)... at least, historically, triarii maniples should be half of other's maniple

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Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

that's why in my opinion, Triarii should be downed into 60 men per unit, but raise hastati and princepes to 120 men (and raise their price a bit)... at least, historically, triarii maniples should be half of other's maniple

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Good. That way one could beat any army just by letting his 120-men-per-unit-fullstacks throwing their javelins. :)

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Originally Posted by Jebivjetar

Good. That way one could beat any army just by letting his 120-men-per-unit-fullstacks throwing their javelins. :)

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maybe we should tone down the Hastati strength?

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Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

maybe we should tone down the Hastati strength?

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Pikeman wouldn't like that :clown:

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Originally Posted by Jebivjetar

Pikeman wouldn't like that :clown:

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but historically, Hastati are supposed to wear down the enemy, and then, let the Princepes mop up the rest, they are supposed to only HOLD, and tire up enemy, while princepes deal the Real damage. Giving them less attack, but more defensive skillz will do the trick well enough.

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Originally Posted by Jebivjetar

I haven't played with Romans for a very long time, but there's a couple of things that makes Romans very hard to beat. I had some hard time fighting against AI and human players in online battles. You'll see the main strenght of Romans if you follow this advices:

- Fight only with fullstacks, always outnumber your enemy and you will be able to kill them very easily.
- Spawn massive triari/pedites extraordinari armies, and show the rest of the world who's the boss.
-No matter how small and weak the enemy army may be, always attack with your fullstacks composed of your hard-core infantry. Attack enemy levies with pedites and triari only, and show your true strenght as a Roman general, and always yell "Roma vitrix!"
- Roman units are cheap, so use that advantage and build a lot of unbeatable armies. As a Roman, you have the privilege to build very cheap main army, to protect your homeland. A massive cheap army composed of elites, together with your faction leader would be optional.
-No matter what you conquer, always enslave everything: spoil whatever you can, and bring barbarian treasury to Rome: by doing that, Rome will glitter in its full brightness as a true center of the known world.

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irony, right?

Quick Guide To be Good With Romans
-Bring Archers
-Make Line
-Hit Guard Mode
-Wait
-Shoot enemy horses with arrows

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

Quick Guide To be Good With Romans
-Bring Archers
-Make Line
-Hit Guard Mode
-Wait
-Shoot enemy horses with arrows

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what archers? Imperial archers? wait for that long and ridiculous reform :grin: Toxotai? Sotaroas? that was crappy...
Better stick with Sphendenotai (slingers), or Iasotae.... and try to hire Kretans everytime you spot em, they are very worth bang for your bucks

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Originally Posted by Jebivjetar

[..]
- Spawn massive triari/pedites extraordinari armies, and show the rest of the world who's the boss.
[..]

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That's an autowin. I've seen the strength of those two units from two sides of the battlefield! Pedites butcher through anything with AP kopis and especially early triarii refuse to die!

I like where this thread is going, a lot of good tactical and strategic advice!

This thread shows links of tactical advice for Romans and also many more factions and unit types, use them to your victory!

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...actical-Advice

If this good advice keeps up, it might even join the ranks of tactical guides! Mayb I'll post something detailed later today!

Good luck with further campaigning!

~Fluvius

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Originally Posted by Fluvius Camillus

That's an autowin. I've seen the strength of those two units from two sides of the battlefield! Pedites butcher through anything with AP kopis and especially early triarii refuse to die!

I like where this thread is going, a lot of good tactical and strategic advice!

This thread shows links of tactical advice for Romans and also many more factions and unit types, use them to your victory!

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...actical-Advice

If this good advice keeps up, it might even join the ranks of tactical guides! Mayb I'll post something detailed later today!

Good luck with further campaigning!

~Fluvius

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I know what you meant fluvius... but newbie players, especially one who just tasted EB and play Romans after playing something else and fail, will definitely go for Triarii/PedEx spam, because they are the only realible camillan units... and they are quite cheap, compared to their stats...

Here's a nice guide on historical Roman army composition, expansion etc.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...edux-for-EB%29

Seriously, pikeman, have you even read the EB terms of agreement? You think Gladiator is historically accurate, praise semi-historical documentaries. Anyway, you should check out the bibliography and get some books from your local library. Reading can't hurt, now can it?

This can't end well...

Guys, don't be so hard with Pikemen, he's a newbie here, and maybe don't yet play EB as deep as most of you are. It was a common mistake that everyone think that semi-historical, or even pseudo historical movies made by Hollywood was a "real historical" thingies. Just let him enjoy more hours with EB, and he'll understand about history by himself. Bashing newbie opinions aren't a good things....

@Pikemen : don't be affraid, it's just some historical nuts running arround here.... just enjoy your EB and you'll find out that things by yourself ~:wave:

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Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

Guys, don't be so hard with Pikemen, he's a newbie here, and maybe don't yet play EB as deep as most of you are. It was a common mistake that everyone think that semi-historical, or even pseudo historical movies made by Hollywood was a "real historical" thingies. Just let him enjoy more hours with EB, and he'll understand about history by himself. Bashing newbie opinions aren't a good things....

@Pikemen : don't be affraid, it's just some historical nuts running arround here.... just enjoy your EB and you'll find out that things by yourself ~:wave:

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My thoughts exactly!

(and I'm still empty handed when it comes to tactical advice:embarassed:)

~Fluvius

Watch out for those Gallic naked guys (the ones with swords), they can send most line non-elite infantry fleeing in terror quite quickly. And those javelin-throwing medium cavalry you get in Capua or wherever are good for killing off a few of those shirtless Gauls while they try to make it to your battle line.

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Originally Posted by pikeman

I'm sorry if there's already tons of threads about this. But I started a new Romani Campaign, and would like to vanquish the world of Barbarians (Maybe not the greeks, they're too smart for themselves- better off as slaves).

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There's only one tactic you need: mnai.
My favourite strategy against the Swêboz is to buy them. Their infantry makes a good addition to Roman forces.

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Originally Posted by pikeman

if I start civilizing the east.....(I can't recruit leves/roraii to take cavalry charges now!! and the principes also use hastati swords)

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You are aware that Mesopotomia, aka "the east" is often known as the birthplace of civilization, not Italy? I think they'd be interested to known that you're graciously bringing civilization to them.

That's beside the point though. For dealing with cavalry you're probably going to need to recruit local/regional spearmen. Triarii are expensive and once you get far away from home it will take a while to replenish them. In the celtic regions you can recruit Gaeroas, which aren't great, but they aren't terrible either. In Iberia you can recruit Iberi Milites, which are mediocre light spear units with javelins. In the Greek parts of the world (which do extend into the East to some extent) you can recruit Theurophoroi, which are all-around pretty good medium spearmen, and Hoplitai, which are heavier, slower, and lack javelins, but they are also sturdier and have better morale. You can also hire mercenary Pezhetaroi (the Macedonian style pikemen) in many parts of the world. Further east, the pickings for good spears are pretty slim though. Mostly you just get levy type spear troops.

Of course, by that point you may be in the Imperial stage and be able to recruit the Auxillia spear units, both of which (the Western and Eastern) are pretty decent.

This thread is also quite useful, as it will tell you any and all units that you can recruit in a given area as the Romans and probably show you a few that I missed.

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Originally Posted by WinsingtonIII

You are aware that Mesopotomia, aka "the east" is often known as the birthplace of civilization, not Italy? I think they'd be interested to known that you're graciously bringing civilization to them.

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Perhaps he wa ironical. I often use this word in a cynical, sarcastic way, such as "I'm gonna civilize faction X now". Meaning I'll pillage and enslave their cities, destroy their temples, and install my own culture there.

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In the celtic regions you can recruit Gaeroas, which aren't great, but they aren't terrible either.

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Gaeroas make nice auxiliary skirmishers. Plus they look cool.
In Germania, there are also Dugundiz, who are stronger than Gaeroas. Also, the Alps offer excellent and versatile spear units. And let's not forget Batacorii, available both as mercs and regional units.

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In the Greek parts of the world (which do extend into the East to some extent) you can recruit Theurophoroi, which are all-around pretty good medium spearmen,

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You can't. They're mercenary only for the Romans.

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and Hoplitai, which are heavier, slower, and lack javelins, but they are also sturdier and have better morale.

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A wise choice for Romani :yes: Even available in (parts of) Italy.

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Further east, the pickings for good spears are pretty slim though. Mostly you just get levy type spear troops.

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Parthian spearmen are quite decent. At least against missile troops and cavalry.



Imperialist hint of the week:
The SPQR can't recruit Rhodian Slingers, but they can bribe them.

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Originally Posted by athanaric

You can't. They're mercenary only for the Romans.

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My bad, for some reason I thought they were recruitable.