The right of homophobes to adopt children

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-12598896

This puts an unusal spin on the 'can gays adopt' debate... seems we are going the other way in the UK (the only place in Britain where gays can't adopt is Northern Ireland).

So, are homophobic couples not capable of providing a caring environment for children?

It is only a matter of time before such wonderful leftist logic leads to the government taking children off of homophobic parents even when they are their biological children.

It's not even just about leftists anymore, its just as common in the centre-right. Screw Labour and their police state, screw Tories and LibDems, I'm running out of reasons not to vote BNP.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

I'm running out of reasons not to vote BNP.

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:inquisitive:

I know you are a fan of flammable arguments, but that comment is pure rhetoric on the grounds of "I pick the worse there is, and say it is good, because things are so bad!™ ".

Don't be silly, it detracts from what you are saying.

In the same vein, slippery slope arguments about government removing children from 'homophobic parents', will not be happening because it is completely unreasonable. Especially considering the socio-economical burden it would place on society, ensuring legal challenges and court battles, and an overhaul of the entire legal system and framework on the right of parents and bearing children.

Then again, what would happen to the poor child if they turn out to be homosexual ? These are factors that have to be carefully considered. The children in foster care are extremely vulnerable and at risk, they need unconditional love and attention to be able to lead a 'normal life'. Being put under strain or abandoned because of the 'adopted' parents belief would only complicate matters further.

It is not about saying "Homosexuality is good", it is about accepting the choice of the individual, and being there for them, even through difficult times.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

It is not about saying "Homosexuality is good", it is about accepting the choice of the individual, and being there for them, even through difficult times.

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That's the big question, saying you don't approve of it doesn't mean you're going to abandon the child. I don't abandon my country the minute my government does something I disagree with, except if it's something very radical and big perhaps. Sure they wouldn't encourage the child and may not want it to invite a same sex boy- or girlfriend to their home but that is still different from abandoning the child, if they really love the child, their opinion may even sway or at least become less extreme, if one can say that it's extreme in the first place.

BNP are scum, England needs a decent no-nonsense anti-leftist party.

Great spin-off RH, I am desperate for a response at least

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Originally Posted by Husar

That's the big question, saying you don't approve of it doesn't mean you're going to abandon the child. I don't abandon my country the minute my government does something I disagree with, except if it's something very radical and big perhaps. Sure they wouldn't encourage the child and may not want it to invite a same sex boy- or girlfriend to their home but that is still different from abandoning the child, if they really love the child, their opinion may even sway or at least become less extreme, if one can say that it's extreme in the first place.

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Indeed. If anything, all they might need is some class about homosexuality and for the parent to sign that in event of the child's sexuality, they would not abandon them and accept their choice.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

BNP are scum, England needs a decent no-nonsense anti-leftist party.

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"Anti-Leftist" is such an misnomer. What is it to be "Left" and "Anti-Left" ? Since the basics of Left-wing in the ideologies deemed to be 'left-wing' are "equality and freedom from oppression", is to be anti-left "Discriminatory and Oppressive" ?

Many "Right-wing" groupings simply have more important priorities in their opinion, but fundamentally follow hold such notions such as liberty, it is only those which do idolize discrimination and oppression which don't.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

Indeed. If anything, all they might need is some class about homosexuality and for the parent to sign that in event of the child's sexuality, they would not abandon them and accept their choice.

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And you are so sure that's a good idea because of what

Homophobe's should be able to adopt children just like any other foster parents. Convicted pedophiles, rapists and so on “ehrm, maybe not”.

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

Homophobe's should be able to adopt children just like any other foster parents.

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Oh? No they shouldn't. Sorry but you guys are nuts

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Originally Posted by Beskar

I know you are a fan of flammable arguments, but that comment is pure rhetoric on the grounds of "I pick the worse there is, and say it is good, because things are so bad!™ ".

Don't be silly, it detracts from what you are saying.

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What is worse than what our current mainstream parties are doing, thinking they are the thought police and can do things like in the OP?

As Husar pointed out, having moral objections doesn't mean the parents will abandon the child. Or should we ban atheist parents from raising children in case the kid turns out religious and they might abandon it(or vice-versa)?

This is just leftists populism and pandering to the pc-brigade, who will stick their nose into every aspect of everyones lives because there has to be equality.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

BNP are scum, England needs a decent no-nonsense anti-leftist party.

Great spin-off RH, I am desperate for a response at least

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I love you, but sometimes I can't understand you (bit in bold I mean). :embarassed:

I agree I do not like the BNP much, but they seem a less scary option than the path we are going down right now.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

What is worse than what our current mainstream parties are doing, thinking they are the thought police and can do things like in the OP?

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Perhaps "minorities" based on skin colour being sent "home" to countries they have never stepped foot in. Active discrimination in practice and discourse based on fear-mongering fueled by the very people tasked to 'deal with it'. Kissing good bye to human rights as minorities of skin, colour, creed, religion and sexual preference are persecuted.

Please don't be ignorant. You know full well what is at sake if they were ever elected. It is a clear case of "Reductio ad Hitlerum" where you are by virtue, advocating Hilter opposed to the status quo, but in a British political context.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Oh? No they shouldn't. Sorry but you guys are nuts

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There's an awful what-if going on. Practical reality is, kids that don't get adopted are put in prison simply because there's no other place for them. Ratio of foster homes to kids is less than 1. So keeping that in mind, what are you going to do? Enforce your own views on foster parents over an unlikely what-if scenario? (What-if the kid turns out homosexual, what-if homophobe parents can't shelve their pride -- but what if they can, or what if the kid doesn't...?)

Or are you going to accept that some foster homes are not your 100% model ideal home, but still 99% there and therefore a much better option than nothing? (Meaning: jail for the kid, btw.)

Mind you, if the adoption bureau simply has scores of enthusiastic foster parents waiting their chance to raise a foster child: sure, let them raise the requirements for the better. But that's right now not realistic, and actually to the detriment of the children they seek to provide with a better life.

Homophobia is an opinion, a choice if you will, that can be changed in an instant.

Homosexuality cannot be changed. It will forever be a part of what someone is.

Also, good old Karl urges you to return to the good side of the Force, Rhy. Your structural view of marxism is a lot sexier than your fire and brimstone...

The orphanage is a much better place for these kids

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Originally Posted by Beskar

Perhaps "minorities" based on skin colour being sent "home" to countries they have never stepped foot in. Active discrimination in practice and discourse based on fear-mongering fueled by the very people tasked to 'deal with it'. Kissing good bye to human rights as minorities of skin, colour, creed, religion and sexual preference are persecuted.

Please don't be ignorant. You know full well what is at sake if they were ever elected. It is a clear case of "Reductio ad Hitlerum" where you are by virtue, advocating Hilter opposed to the status quo, but in a British political context.

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Complete nonsense, the BNP are very different from the NSDAP. For a start they have a Sikh member, plus they have said themselves they have no problem with productive minorities in the UK. They are not even national socialists, their economic policy is quite a bottom-up community-based idealistic notion by the name of 'distributism'... if you are wondering why I know this crap, its not because I am fascinated with the BNP, the far-right in Britain just takes much of its inspiration from elements of Ulster/Scottish loyalist circles, they came up with it back in the 70's.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Also, good old Karl urges you to return to the good side of the Force, Rhy. Your structural view of marxism is a lot sexier than your fire and brimstone...

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Yeah but nobody appreciates my structural view of marxism, fire and brimstone is much more fun...

Anyway, I'm not really going to vote BNP, I just said that in the heat of the moment. But I still do not think they are as bad as what people say, I know a fair few people who support them and they only do so because they feel betrayed by everyone else and can't get a decent job/pension/whatever. They are not demons like you think.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Complete nonsense, the BNP are very different from the NSDAP. For a start they have a Sikh member, plus they have said themselves they have no problem with productive minorities in the UK. They are not even national socialists, their economic policy is quite a bottom-up community-based idealistic notion by the name of 'distributism'... if you are wondering why I know this crap, its not because I am fascinated with the BNP, the far-right in Britain just takes much of its inspiration from elements of Ulster/Scottish loyalist circles, they came up with it back in the 70's.



Yeah but nobody appreciates my structural view of marxism, fire and brimstone is much more fun...

Anyway, I'm not really going to vote BNP, I just said that in the heat of the moment. But I still do not think they are as bad as what people say, I know a fair few people who support them and they only do so because they feel betrayed by everyone else and can't get a decent job/pension/whatever. They are not demons like you think.

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~:) I like you

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Originally Posted by Beskar

Then again, what would happen to the poor child if they turn out to be homosexual ?

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Indeed, it would be like placing a brown baby with a BNP member. :grin:

Should a southern KKK-member who owns a cotton farm be allowed to adopt a score of healthy and strong western african children?

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

Indeed, it would be like placing a brown baby with a BNP member. :grin:

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That won't be happening, since BNP members are already banned from holding a number of public positions never mind being allowed to adopt.

The hypocrisy of the anti-fascist left makes me sick, the only BNP supporters I know are as I've said old women and young people like myself that can't get a job. Yet they are villified by some liberal left rich boys and have basic freedoms taken away for them, all, incredibly, in the name of freedom.

I will not defend the BNP as a party (beyond the ridiculous excesses to which some people take their criticisms), but I will defend their ordinary supporter.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Should a southern KKK-member who owns a cotton farm be allowed to adopt a score of healthy and strong western african children?

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Or perhaps more accurately, should a southern KKK-member who owns a cotton farm be allowed to adopt a score of infants who may or may not grow up to become healthy and strong western african children?

Ajax

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Originally Posted by ajaxfetish

Or perhaps more accurately, should a southern KKK-member who owns a cotton farm be allowed to adopt a score of infants who may or may not grow up to become healthy and strong western african children?

Ajax

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A beautiful way to combat rising wages!

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Should a southern KKK-member who owns a cotton farm be allowed to adopt a score of healthy and strong western african children?

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Sometimes your posts are stupid ~:)

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Complete nonsense, the BNP are very different from the NSDAP. For a start they have a Sikh member, plus they have said themselves they have no problem with productive minorities in the UK. They are not even national socialists, their economic policy is quite a bottom-up community-based idealistic notion by the name of 'distributism'... if you are wondering why I know this crap, its not because I am fascinated with the BNP, the far-right in Britain just takes much of its inspiration from elements of Ulster/Scottish loyalist circles, they came up with it back in the 70's..

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German side in the 1936 Summer Olympics had a Jewish athlete.

I could continue, bringing up several supporting evidence demonstrating discrimination against minorities, homosexuals and women, in quotes, manifesto's and court cases, but I presume that endeavor would simply be fruitless.

Oh gawd.

Thank you thank you thank, Beskar, for informing me that the dorks have made a manifesto. I just downloaded it and I've read the first 30 pages, and so far it's comic GOLD!!

Utter loonies! I'm absolutely speechless! I honestly don't even know where to begin ridiculing this utter piece of crap! I always knew they were idiots, but MY GAWD!! This is far, FAR beyond my wildest imaginiation!!

Anyone even thinking of voting for this inbred bunch of dolts should be sent back to the third grade to retake that school year. It's obvious that they have the mental capability of an 8-year old. And not a bright one.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

German side in the 1936 Summer Olympics had a Jewish athlete.

I could continue, bringing up several supporting evidence demonstrating discrimination against minorities, homosexuals and women, in quotes, manifesto's and court cases, but I presume that endeavor would simply be fruitless.

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The endeavour would not be fruitless, since I know there are a lot of bad elements within the BNP right now. But you have to realise the difference between the parties voting base and the party itself.

I just think their voter base are not that bad, from what I have seen anyway, and I think they are unfairly demonised, when they are usually just ordinary working-class people looking to make an anti-establishment vote.

If the BNP do get more support, they will be forced to become more moderate to appeal to their support base. They have already disassociated from the more extreme elements eg Combat 18. So maybe in the future they will be less bad.

At the end of the day they do have an economic policy that could just as easily come from the old left, if they drop the overt racism they wouldn't be that bad.

A few points among many laughs:

-"protecting british pubs" was the first real laugh. Seriously, I had to put my iPad down as I couldn't hold it while laughing so hard.
-their economic policies can be summed up in one phrase: "destroy all creativity and innovation". They want a 19/20th century economy in a 21th century world.
-page 45 provides proof of complete math fail. "Lowest common denominator" refers to a number higher than or equal to the numbers you already have, you utter idiots! Gawd! A primary school child knows this!!

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But you have to realise the difference between the parties voting base and the party itself.

I just think their voter base are not that bad, from what I have seen anyway, and I think they are unfairly demonised, when they are usually just ordinary working-class people looking to make an anti-establishment vote.

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I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoLaP-HjKFQ

That is their "Youth Propaganda". Seriously, voting for them is not a credible choice, no matter what they put on paper, it isn't worth the ink it is written with. Each of the BNP high-ranking officials have a criminal record as long as my arm, mainly associated with assault, thuggery and robbery.

While there is issues with the current political system which breeds an anti-establishment mood, placing your vote on the BNP is simply slapping yourself in the face.

Sure, you can separate the "voter" with the "party", but end of the day, they are endorsing a party with those views, and there is responsibility tied to that. There are far more credible choices such as UKIP which is 'right-wing'.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

-their economic policies can be summed up in one phrase: "destroy all creativity and innovation". They want a 19/20th century economy in a 21th century world.

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Yeah kind of like those socialists that are still obsessed with international class struggle. :wink:

Hint - there's a reason why the BNP are most successful amongst the segments of the population that used to identify most closely with old, socialist Labour...

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Yeah kind of like those socialists that are still obsessed with international class struggle. :wink:

Hint - there's a reason why the BNP are most successful amongst the segments of the population that used to identify most closely with old, socialist Labour...

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They are almost as dumb as the BNP.

Seriously, stopping shops to relocate to locations more suitable to their business? Are they all snorting amphetamine from buckets?? This ranks among the dumbest economic policies I have ever encountered.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

Sure, you can separate the "voter" with the "party", but end of the day, they are endorsing a party with those views, and there is responsibility tied to that. There are far more credible choices such as UKIP which is 'right-wing'.

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UKIP are more right-wing in the free-market sense. The BNP are the clostest thing Britain has to a socialist party.

As a certain Frenchman pointed out in a recent thread, the rise of the far-right has much to do with the fact that the left has lost its credibility as the main source of opposition to rampant capitalism.

NOTE: I'm playing the devil's advocate a bit here, I am not actually going to vote BNP while they have many silly and overtly racist policies.