The Ultimate Stack thread...

By "Ultimate Stack" I mean your idea of the best possible configuration of units to field against ANY given army. I am not talking about stacks to counter other stacks, and Im not talking about economical armies. IMO multiplayer is the best test of your ultimate stack because you never know the makeup of the enemy army.A good human player will provide a better challange and exploitany weekness in your army/strat much better then the AI will. Please list your army makeup, reasons why, and any weekness/strengths it may have. I'll start with my idea of the English ultimate stack...

The English Ultimate Stack:

6 units of Armored Swordsmen
6 units of Retinue Archers
8 units of Templar/Hospitaller Knights

Armored Swordsmen have the highest defencive value out of all the English infantry units. I interprete the defencive value to mean "ability to HOLD the line" and the offencive value to mean "ability to CHOP UP the enemy line". I would replace two units of swordsmen with Dismounted English Knights but at the moment they are bugged.6 swords will hold the line plenty long even when outnumbered or out matched.

Retinue Archers provide a great stake wall when on the defencive. I find that 6 is just enough to ensure you are never out bowed. Against an army of all Horse Archers, your infanty and hevay cavalry are nearly useless as they cannot catch the Horse Archers. With 6 Retinue Archers you can form a provtective stake pocket around your entire army and make them come to you.

Templar/Hospitaller Knights are the best hevy cav you can field as the English, and nearly nullify the English cavalry weekness. 8 is just enough to ensure you are never out caved, and more then enough to flank and decimate an infantry heavy army.

Hmmm... that's for sure a potent stack!

However, swordsmen get destroyed by a head on cavalry charge, wouldn't you want some spearmen in there to counter this? If you're playing as the english though, you don't have many options here except for mercs and levys.

And personally, I find battles to be much more fun with arty flinging fireballs at the enemy.

So, I'd take your list, and I'd sub out 2 archers, 2 swords, and 3 knights for:

1 general
2 spears
4 trebuchets

But I guess it's a matter of preference!!

15 Monster Ribaults(or whatever the 36 Barrel Artillery i)
2 of the best Cav your faction has)
With AI bug you can shoot them up to your hearts content)
did a Test me with 20 units armoured swordsman vs 20 Ribaults (3-4 shots and I'd lost almost all my army)

If not then hmm 20 Elephants with Artillery

for a proper army using the English then
6 English Knights
1generals Body guard
4Retuinue Longbow
9 Swordsman

Doh, I forgot about the general because I was thinking multiplayer, however I do not mean this to be a multiplayer thread...

Most of my stacks (untill i can get cannons) are :-

6 units of Armored Swordsmen (fully upgraded from citadel with swordsmith guild)
5 units of Retinue Archers (fully upgrade ive also got headquaters for woodsman guild)
4 units of Hospitilar knights (fully upgraded, i can get templar no matter what i do)
1 Generals bodyguard (upgraded)
4 Spearmen (fully upgraded from a citadel with swordsmith guild)

Thats the sort of offensive stack i use it works out roughly at around 2000 men (on huge armies) and with that type of stack ive managed take out multiple stacks of around 5000 units in total with roughly 70% to 80% of my men still alive after the battle.

I would actually use dismounted english knights but there bugged really badly (2 handed weapon bug) so i just stick with the armoured swordsmen as they do brilliantly for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flavius Gonzo

Hmmm... that's for sure a potent stack!

However, swordsmen get destroyed by a head on cavalry charge, wouldn't you want some spearmen in there to counter this? If you're playing as the english though, you don't have many options here except for mercs and levys.

And personally, I find battles to be much more fun with arty flinging fireballs at the enemy.

So, I'd take your list, and I'd sub out 2 archers, 2 swords, and 3 knights for:

1 general
2 spears
4 trebuchets

But I guess it's a matter of preference!!

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There is no reason your swords should ever be exposed to a head on cav charge if you have 8 knights of your own and 6 steak walls.

HRE...

General (someone's got to be in charge...)
2 Culverins (deal with any enemy artillery, and cause merry havoc on troops)
4 Pavise X-bows (to absorb and send away projectiles)
2 Arquebusiers (I like the pretty smoke puffs)
5 Gothic knights (name something - not a pachyderm - that these can't charge down)
4 Reiters (again, pretty smoke puffs, plus handy in a proper fight too!)
2 Zweihanders (for wall-taking)

Pretty random assortment, oughta work though...

As The Turks, I usually go with...

1 General
7 Janissary Heavy Infantry
6 Qapukulu
4 Sipahis
2 Turkomens

Now that I got Musketeers, though, I'm starting to change things to this:

1 General
6 Janissary Heavy Infantry
2 Janissary Musketeers
6 Qapukulu
4 Sipahis
1 Turkomens

Byzantine (Infantry Option)
4 X Varangian Guard
4 X Dis Mounted Latinkons
4 X Spear Militia with armor Upgrades
4 X Guard Archer
2 X Family Members
2 X Other Heavy Cavalry

Variants of this using Byzantine Swordmen or Dismounted Lancers can also be pretty good especially for auto resolved battles. The Guard Archers are tougher than most infantry so you can also replace the Spearmen with other heavy infantry

Byzantine Cavalry Option
2 X Family Members
8 X Vartoiria (sp?)
5 X Latinkons
5 X Skythikon

Ultimate stack:
20x vards :yes:

Realistic stack:
6x byz inf
4x varangian guard
4x vards
4x kataphractoi
2x generals

20 Vards => invincible.

Milan:
1 General
9 Pavise Crossbows
5 Miscellaneous Infantry (including 2 Italian Spears on flanks)
3 Templars
2 Militia Cav or Ballistas

England:
1 General
4 Miscellaneous Infantry (need pikes for flanks)
3 Templars or English Knights
2 Militia/Light Cav or Ballistas or more archers
10 Longbows/Sherwood Archers

I like my archers...alot...

English:
1xGeneral(prefferably with good command and moral boost and if possible Hp)
2xSpears(Fully upgraded so as to reduce requirement of more spears to counter cavalry)
6xArmoured Swordsmen(Prefferably upgraded)
5xRetinue Archers(Although i also like sherwood archers)
4xTemplar/Hospitaller
2xTrebuchet(So i dont have to wait to build siege equipment for assulting cities)
(Although a spy and some luck/loading repeatedly would be better and would free up more room for cavalry:yes: )

Turks: This is what I'm taking to America.....

1 General
4 Qapakalu
9 Janissary Musketeers 3x3 -also awesome in melee!
2 Cannon
4 Hashishim

20 vards cannot win a siege quickly unless you also got spies :p

France:
1 GB
6 Lancer
3 Mt Archer
2 Aventurier
2 Voulgier
2 Mailed Knight
2 Merc Free Company LB
1 Merc Elephant Muskets
1 Merc Elepahnt Artillery

If you did'nt catch the enemy in the field while you're on horseback, something is definetly not right ! ;P :D

Quote:

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20 vards cannot win a siege quickly unless you also got spies :p

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True - but they won't make it more than 10m outside the town when they sally :grin2:

Egypt:
1 general (preferably the faction leader)
19 Hashashim

Deployed as:

Frontline
H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H
Middle line:
H-H-H-H-G-H-H-H-H
Backline:
H-H-H-H

Strategy:
Use the Hashashim frontline to batter the enemies front ranks. Concentrate on the middle of their line while the Middle line assault then outer sides. Only use the backline as reserves. Bring a unit in if another is taking heavy casualties. Use 3 or 4 centre units to overwhelm the enemies centre unit. Then use these to head straight for the general. Speed is the key here in this plan but mostly let the Hashashim get into a fighting rhythm then strike with the back line when you’ve killed or routed their general to rout the whole army.

I like heavy infatry allot. So i use a stack of :

1 GB
6 spearmen
5 heavy infantry
4 archers
4 heavy cav

I personally always use unleased 5 spear units. The cav in MTW2 is way to strong. And you need something to die from the arrows. I hope that the shield bug in 1.02 is finally fixed, so they are perfect for the job. You will need 4 good archers or x- bows to counter the HA and for my favorite defensive battles. And not less than 4 cav to chase routers and archers. The rest- heavy infantry. Whith this you can kill almost all kinds of enemas. Fighting cav whith cav is possible but expensive. Thing like in WW II- most of the tanks where not destroyed by other thanks, but from infantry and airplanes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScrapTower

The English Ultimate Stack:

6 units of Armored Swordsmen
6 units of Retinue Archers
8 units of Templar/Hospitaller Knights

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Seems like your infantry line would be rather short.

Against a lot of stacks, all that heavy cav can make up for that. But I think your archers are going to cost you too much in a field battle versus a powerful melee army.

I think if I came at you with, say, 10 Armored Swordsmen and 10 Templar/Hospitaller Knights you'd be in real trouble.

As the Moors:

12 Camel Gunners
7 Tuareg Camel Spearmen
1 General

Mass camel assaults on horse cavalry = fun.

As my homeland of Kievan-Rus, this is my favorite stack:

8 Spearmen
4 Dismounted Dvor
2 Berdiche Axemen
2 Basilisks
3 Tsar's Guard
1 General

At late game I'll switch the Dvor out for Cossack Musketeers and maybe switch a few spears with Dvor or other heavy infantry. I find it to be a very versitile stack and good against heavy cav armies.

well, for scotland it's:

!0x Scots Noble Pikemen(fully upgraded)
5x Highland archers( 3 archers and 2 artillery when gunpowder comes along)
3x Highlanders
2x Border Cavalry

Why would you want 3 highland archers as opposed to noble highland archers?

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Why would you want 3 highland archers as opposed to noble highland archers?

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No questions as to the Border Horses? :inquisitive:

As Mongols :

1GB
6 Mongol heavy archers (The missile cavalry)
4 heavy lancers
4 dismounted heavy lancers
5 dismounted mongol heavy archers (may take 2 dismounted archers off for rocket lyncher)

As English:

1GB
5 retine retine
5 Swordsmen
5 spearmen
3 Templar knights
1 Sherwood archers (there just cool...):verycool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Agent Smith

No questions as to the Border Horses? :inquisitive:

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Border horse are fast moving. And quite useful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScrapTower

There is no reason your swords should ever be exposed to a head on cav charge if you have 8 knights of your own and 6 steak walls.

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Funny typo: in game they are actually called "stake walls" but I guess once the horses run into them they would become walls of steak.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Philbert

Funny typo: in game they are actually called "stake walls" but I guess once the horses run into them they would become walls of steak.

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How's horse taste?:laugh4:

FactionHeir,

Its very good, especially if you find someone who knows how to butcher and prepare it.

As for ultimate stack, how about 20x Rocket Elephants? If nothing else, the initial volley will be worth watching! :devilish:

I've done that.

I'd have to agree. For pure destructive power without doing a thing, 20 Elephant Artillery or 20 Elephant Rockteers cannot be matched.

Just control + A, lgroup, shift+3, loose formation, auto fire-on, hit start and have a beer.