Who are you ultimately loyal to?

I asked this question to gauge people's responses in the hopes of better understanding their responses and where they come from when they post here. From my experiences and general thinking, the loyalty pyramid goes six levels:

- At the top is yourself. If it comes down to it, you would seek to save yourself and yourself only. After all, it's your life that you are living. Nobody else is as important.

- One step down is your family, and possibly, friends. These are the people that you are closest to in life. You would stick by them no matter what even if it meant making a colossal sacrifice, since you can all help each other out.

- Next down is your community. This one is rather inclusive, but it means a lot of different things. Your neighborhood, town, and state/province are at this level. Some historical context: American Civil War general Robert E. Lee placed the interests of his state, Virginia, over that of his country, the United States of America, and joined the Confederacy.

- One more down is your country. This one is rather simple. You stick with it through thick and thin, and will support it in a war no matter what because it is your country, no matter how much you disagree with its policies. You consider treason to be the height of human sin.

- Second-to-last is people in general. You will do what you can to make the world a better place for everybody, including disagreeing with your country/some other important body. After all, we're in this together.

- Finally, there's God. If you believe in Him, then He is probably the most important figure in your life and He is waiting for you when this is all over. It doesn't matter what you do on Earth so long as you please the Big Guy in the sky, because a better life awaits when you're gone.

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As far as where I stand, well, I'm honestly not sure yet. I guess it's kind of hypocritical to make you choose and hold off, but I'm interested and I hope that this can start some good discussion.

I put myself as primary, the population as secondary. While I'm not exactly Han Solo, everyone has an instinct for self-preservation and I think anyone who doesn't put themself down as primary is either being a bit dishonest or a truly exceptional human being. I also like to think myself takes in my personal moral code.

As for secondary, I don't believe that someone is more important than someone else purely by virtue of the fact that they're related to me/know me, so I went for the population as a whole.

Numero Uno: myself-what can I say, I am the only person I trust.

Numero two: family/friends-must be noted that this is a ways down from one, and also must be pointed out that my list of friends is rather exclusive(although more from me being an introver as opposed to arrogance).

I voted God as #1. I see a loyalty to God as loyalty to the greater good, right over wrong, others instead of myself.

I voted for myself as #2. If I can be true to myself, which entails a loyalty to the greater good as part of that inner loyalty, than I am both a stronger person and a better part of the whole.

A win-win situation. ~:yin-yang:

Myself as Number 1. I am really the only person I am answerable to, and that is important for me to remember sometimes. I suppose if I wasn't an Atheist, I would put God here.

The Global Population as a whole would be second for me.

When I saw the title of this thread, I wanted to say God, which was weird as I am an atheist. I guess what I was meaning by God is a moral standard. But that wasn't an option in the poll.

The whole population is an attractive, as I really don't care who has the same passport as me or who hangs around the same city. The utilitarian standard - do what is best for the general population - is perhaps the single guiding moral principle. However, the idea of being loyal to a population is a bit odd. If the whole world wanted something but it was wrong, they could all get lost, IMO.

Then I started to think what loyalty meant. It certainly doesn't fit neatly into utilitarian ethics. The dictionary says "true or faithful to (to duty, love or obligation)". Given that meaning, it is pretty clear that for me that is my family.

The whole population can come second.

As a rule, I put my friends & family above all else. If my loved ones need me, I usually don't hesitate to drop whatever I'm doing to be there for them. Which isn't to say I don't take time for myself; I'm my own best friend (and worst enemy). ~;)

Everything else is a distant second for me: community, nation, etc. Not that I don't care about those things, but I've always believed in trying to take care of my own little corner of the universe before anything else.

Primary- Me
Secondary-Friends

I'm not a very religious person so I'm not very loyal to god. The purpose of the government is to help me, my friends and the community so I have to be loyal to at least one of those three first in order to be loyal to my country. The people I care about in the community are my friends and family so there is no point in being loyal to it. Now that I actually think about it, I am actually more loyal to my friends then I am to myself but either way those are the two that I am most loyal to.

Atheist, so loyalty to (a) god is out of the question. I'm not patriotic, so neither is loyalty to country. The community would be a close third, with friends/family at second place. Live for nobody else but yourself; you'll be happier that way with a lot more money.

Primary-My friends/family and myself

Secondary: My country and the population as a whole

Primary - friends and family
Secondary - God

Family and friends are very important to me, I don't know how I would survive without them. I am also very religious always praying, going to church, doing good deeds, but if I could do something to help my friends and family, that requires defying god, then yes I would choose them over God.

I broke the rules. Sorry ~;p

I put both God and family as #1, because I don't think I could choose one over the other, and I'd like to think that I don't have to. Myself I put as second, because that's at least where I'd like to put myself, even if in reality I invest comparatively more effort on myself than I think I should.

Ajax

Well, I voted unsure, simply because I cannot really tell.
I'd like to be able to tell but then I can think of so many situations where my priorities would be elsewhere.
Ultimately loyal sounds a bit weird to me since I can hardly imagine a situation where I could be loyal to any of the entities mentioned in the poll. Usually you decide between being loyal to one or the other and I can say that I would most likely make the decision once I am in the situation.

For example if someone tortured me for my belief in God, I'd have to decide bewteen me(my life) and God and I honestly can't say how I'd decide since I probably cannot imagine the pain inflicted on me, my current overall mood, etc. Maybe it sounds weird to some, but I have no ultimate loyalty, I am loyal to whatever I think is worth being loyal to at the moment.

And family is not always the same for me, I see my "own" family(which I don't have yet), as in my wife and kids a bit different from my family in the sense of my parents and sister. :shrug:

Another example would be choosing between community and family, well, when would I have to choose either? Say, the community sues my family over something stupid, in that case I's support my family but if my dad committed murder, I'd support the community.

In general I'm a rather neutral person and very hesitant to support any group 100%. My loyalty is usually decided on a per-person basis and my own thoughts concerning whether I think that person is "worthy" of my loyalty.
And persons who rank high don't really need to worry about my loyalty.

Social status like being a teacher or my boss also gives a loyalty boost unless that person's actions lead me to believe otherwise.

I hope I could explain my choice.:bow:

I would say...

First - my wife
Second - My kids
Third - Me
Fourth - The rest of my family.
Fifth - My company
Sixth - My country

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beirut

I voted God as #1. I see a loyalty to God as loyalty to the greater good, right over wrong, others instead of myself.

I voted for myself as #2. If I can be true to myself, which entails a loyalty to the greater good as part of that inner loyalty, than I am both a stronger person and a better part of the whole.

A win-win situation. ~:yin-yang:

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Same as Beirut. :yes:

Myself as 1.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by econ21

When I saw the title of this thread, I wanted to say God, which was weird as I am an atheist. I guess what I was meaning by God is a moral standard. But that wasn't an option in the poll.

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Same except I'm agnostic.

As my father taught me, life is about responsibility, and answering FOR yourself, not to yourself.

First, God. With all He has done for me, who am I to put Him in the backseat.

Second, family (I don't agree with lumping friends/family together. Yes, you can choose some very, very close friends to become family, part of your pack if you will, but then they would be family).

Self should always be last on the list.

I'm loyal to this lovely community of human beings first, even if not so sociable as I could be, I love it and I can do anything to save it, even if it means my death (not another person's death though). And then my family and friends, though both are part of the community, in the case that they're opposed (like in a criminal case) I'll always remain loyal to the first. I like to think that I'm a man of principles, to me living a life without sustaining your own principles is living a pointless life, so I respect always my values in this and other matters.

Beirut's an inspiration...

1.) God
2.) My Family
3.) My Kyo-Sah (Tae Kwon Do trainer)
4.) My Friends
5.) Everyone else pretty much

1)God, mainly because of the reasons of GH. God is very important to me.
2)My country. Everything about me has been changed and reinforced by my country.
3)Family. These are the only people who are with you for your whole life, through thick and thin.

1. Me, if i die then i really don't give a crap what happens to the rest of you. and since i do not yet have a wife or kids i'm not truly willing to sacrifice my life to defend anything other than 2. My country which is the defender of me and my family. It Provides for our well-being and is true to the morals it was founded on (for the most part, thanks a lot George:mean:). and this mother of a land that has been so good to me is worth defending and only slightly more than the 3. Population in general, who are my brothers in humanity as stupid, cruel, brave, cold, loving, or religious as they may be:gathering: .

I'd have to say family first, then God. An unpopular choice, but I'm sticking to it. The way I see it, it I was in Abraham's place, I'd tell the angel to stuff it. So family first.

Primary: God and Family

Secondary: Community and Country.

CR

Primary: The world.

No need for a secondary...

EDIT: On second thought, screw that. I'm only loyal to the leftist world. The rest can burn for all I care.

You do realise if you continually kill the 50% on the right there will be a point that you are in the right and to be cleansed...

Primary: Family/Friends
Secondary: Country[*]

[*] by this i include those who consider themselves British and happily so. This is inclusive regardless of ethnicity, religion, or length of naturalisation. This excludes spotty oiks who think they have no bond or tie to their country (you have no loyalty to my in-group then i will retain no loyalty to you, regardless of what your passport says).

1- Me....you got to look out for number 1 first
2- Family and a small group of friends are a close second.

First and foremost, me. Everything I do is motivated by some selfish need, even when I do something unselfish.

Secondly, friends and family. I know them, I'm emotionally invested in them, and that's why I care about them more than other people (with the exception of myself).

Thirdly, global population. I care for people's plight in say Africa, and I do donate what I can when I can. Still, if my brother (well, one of them, really) would die I'd still care more about him.

Fourthly, country. Not really loyal here. Why should I be? It's the country that should be loyal to the citizen, not the other way around.

Fiftly, community. Same as with the country, it should be loyal to me, not the other way around.

As for god, hah! I don't believe in one. Can't be loyal to something that doesn't exist.

Let's try not to say comments that can start a debate. In the upcoming future I'm going to start getting busy and I won't be able to be active and loyal to it.

Tough one:
God doesn't exist, so I can't be loyal to him
People as a whole, dunno, there are enough people I would never want to be loyal to.
Country, since I'm Dutch being loyal to your country is the same as being mad
Community, nah, you can't call it loyalty, more being proud to come from my part of the country
Friends/Family, yeah I'm loyal to them ... most of the time
Myself, well it's hard to be not loyal to myself