No further patches for M2TW or Kingdoms (update: Kingdoms patch announced)

An update for kingdoms has been announced. You may read about it here.

~sapi

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Linkage

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Originally Posted by [color=purple]Caliban (CA)[/color]

There are no plans for a patch at the moment.

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Opinions?

I didn't expect anything else really. But then, I won't be getting ETW either because of the lack of proper support and bugfixing patches ever since RTW.
SecuROM and co don't help that either.

Yeah it kind of fits their current apparent company policy: make a game with kick-ass graphics and mediocre gameplay (compared to what they could do if they really went for it) and dish it out as soon as possible to as many customers as possible, then move on to the next add-on or game without bothering to pick up the pieces. Don't care too much about bugs on the way unless people complain extremely loudly about a certain thing.

Seriously, I expected it (although I had a few more "insider informations" than most of you guys did)

So, its abandonware already?:laugh4:

Seriously, this is a blow, and I will certainly not buy any new TW game, or other SEGA game for that matter..
:thumbsdown:

Post your thoughts in the linked thread, perhaps CA can be persuaded of their error by communal pressure. Even if you doubt the likelihood of this, it is worth the few seconds of post-writing even for the smallest chance.

Remember to maintain discipline, any unreasonable attacks on CA would result in our goal being damaged beyond compare.

Not surprised in the slightest...although we have to make some allowances for the qualifier 'not at the moment'. But even so this does indeed seem like a big FU to the fanbase.

I mean seriously...is this legit? Are CA trying to sabotage their own marketability? Or are they counting on a fresh crop of sychophantic newbies to start playing their games each year and really dont give two hoots???

I wont be getting ETW if this is what CA has become...

No plans for a patch for kingdoms?i sure hope that's not the case, and are working on a patch and just said that for some evil joke.some thing tells me its for real and not just some evil joke.I hope that we get one patch for kingdoms that does just fixes some or all of the bugs.like the stone forts bug in the crusades campaign.Now i am strating to rethink about if i should buy empire total war.




lets look at a game two games called stronghold 2 and stronghold legends.if i remember right stronghold 2 only had only 2 patchs for it by the time stronghold legends came out.stronghold legends did how some mp bugs like in a 1v1 or 2v2 games you were unable to talk sometimes,but a few patchs later and its fixed,with better mp.Now lets look at stronghold 2 , two more patchs come out for it,after stronghold legends out.

so if firefly can patch a game even after a new game of theres came out.i think ca and sage should be able to make at lest one patch for kingdoms.

CA have always been parsimonious with their patches. I am not sure this marks a big change.

The decision not to make a significant 1.3 patch for M2TW was a bigger blow to me - it seemed clear then that it was considered too much work to bring the vanilla game up to the level of the expansion. That the passage of time has not changed this evaluation is not a surprise. I am not that bothered about Kingdoms - I am not aware of major bugs, but I don't read the bug list (I want to remain a happy gamer).

What I would like to see is a bit more tweaking of the AI.

The strategic AI is the most in need, IMO. I kept a log of the battles in a England VH/VH AAR and they were nearly always with the odds in my favour. Typically, the AI can't organise an offensive determined enough to catch me at a disadvantage. Nor can it avoid such offensives being organised by me. Now that does not sound so bad - given that I am a human and it a dumb AI. But because I like to wage war on a shoestring, the AI should be able to get me at a disadvantage - I know I can still win battles outgunned. However, the AI just does not get its act together. It dithers and divides.

Also, playing around with the game for a PBM in crazy ways (trying to make it harder, not easier), it is clear that there are still whacky failings of the strategic AI. For example, it will sometimes ignore empty enemy settlements, turn after turn - just walk right past them. You literally can't give the settlements away. And it seems to prefer full stacks to be led by captains and leaves generals with penny packets. You can use the consol to give a good army to a general and next turn the AI will hand it over to a captain. :dizzy2:

The battlefield AI also has problems, although I still maintain that it can often give players a run for their money if the odds are 2:1 in its favour. However, it does still suffer from passivity in the face of fire and undue exposure of its general to risk (suicide generals). A few days ago, I fought a siege assault where the AI crippled itself by making its general one of the first units to - literally - walk into my schiltron. Today, I watched my son fight a 1:1 sally which was basically just a turkey shoot.

Seems to be the way things are going with the industry in general. Good slides to adequate slides to 'Well, they aren't crash bugs, so who cares?' As long as the consumer continues to enable it, the slide will deepen. :thumbsdown:

Maybe this is a chance for some up and comers to make a decent game, take good care of it and dethrone CA from this niche market. More likely the niche itself dies, and that might be for the best.

:egypt:

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Originally Posted by Ramses II CP

Seems to be the way things are going with the industry in general. Good slides to adequate slides to 'Well, they aren't crash bugs, so who cares?' As long as the consumer continues to enable it, the slide will deepen. :thumbsdown:

Maybe this is a chance for some up and comers to make a decent game, take good care of it and dethrone CA from this niche market. More likely the niche itself dies, and that might be for the best.

:egypt:

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No, what its a chance for is for consumers to recognize that this trend is well established in the gaming industry, and reliant on thier consumption.

No big surprise here, they wont be issuing another patch, why should they? Some clever modder will come along and mod the game anyway, not only that the modders will be revered on fan baords all over the web.

By the same people who whine about not getting patches from the producer. :rolleyes:

i tend to think people are OTT with criticism of CA over bugs and patches... but no patches for kingdoms combined with no bug fixes in 1.3 gets a big :thumbsdown: from me.

broken crescent over kingdoms for me.

This is... inexcusable.

I find it staggering to comprehend that they can leave the game in a state where it provides no challenge whatsoever on even the hardest difficulty level.

At the very least the grand campaign should be brought up to kingdoms standards.

well with considering the fact that patch 1.3 is nothing not even including unit balancing i'm not in the least suprised. although i stopped playing rome after a couple of months and never bought any of the expansions at least they kept patching itand the comunity seemed satisfied with v1.5 (or whatever it ended at). but now even that trend has stopped. building an expansion that wasnt compatible with the original signalled the end of any patching to me.

although i would love to buy kingdoms i wont due to securom. its funny cos without securom CA would already have my money :)

i guess it will beack to waiting for the buglist and patch info before i spend my money on ETW (asuming ther is no securom and the likes to contend with)

I'm starting to think that it's not that they wouldn't fix the game. They simply don't know how to do it.

The fact that the ETW forum already has as many posts as it does right now doesn't help this case either. Good luck to anyone willing to reward this kind of behavior.

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Originally Posted by econ21

I am not that bothered about Kingdoms - I am not aware of major bugs, but I don't read the bug list (I want to remain a happy gamer).

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I tend to avoid reading the bug list, too, but there is one decent sized bug that may cramp your enjoyment of a campaign(if you don't expect it). A feature mentioned in the book, reinforcements for Wales if they conquer towns on their border, doesn't work.

I wasn't as bothered as some by the Securom thing(comes on most accounting software anyway, according to a friend of mine in that field), but I'm pretty disappointed by this. Kingdoms is far above MTW2 in most ways in my opinion, and I'm willing to ignore all the little spelling and other errors that should be easily fixed, but I'd at least like them to fix some of the features mentioned in their own game manual.
:no:

Sigh....too bad.

I, unfortunately, am one of those people that stay by a series. I know, M2TW is a huge dissapointment bugwise, but IMO the TW series is the only of its kind and is not something that you can easily find a replacement for like cookie cutter FPS/RPG/RTS games.

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Originally Posted by Xdeathfire

TW series is the only of its kind and is not something that you can easily find a replacement for

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I look forward to the day when this will not be the case any more.

There are very few companies that seem to actually follow up with customer service patches and support - namely Blizzard, which I credit their success with their continuous support/patches of their games.

Really, I think CA has potential to be a megamonster in the industry by their own rights, they just don't play up to it for some unknown reason - probably involves money and in-group politics.

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Originally Posted by hrvojej

I look forward to the day when this will not be the case any more.

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yeah me too a little competition wouldnt hurt this sellers market.

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Originally Posted by TheLastPrivate

Really, I think CA has potential to be a megamonster in the industry by their own rights, they just don't play up to it for some unknown reason - probably involves money and in-group politics.

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And I think it involves the lack of ability. You all need to take into consideration the fact that they could not knew how to make ai better and fix those bugs.

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Originally Posted by TheLastPrivate

There are very few companies that seem to actually follow up with customer service patches and support - namely Blizzard, which I credit their success with their continuous support/patches of their games.

Really, I think CA has potential to be a megamonster in the industry by their own rights, they just don't play up to it for some unknown reason - probably involves money and in-group politics.

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They still patch Warcraft 3 even though they dont need to. Subtle Balances. That dedication (and the huge tournaments that still go on for it) is beautiful.

Dunno about this, I'm more of a "does it run" player, if it does that's enough for me. Sure there are bugs but nothing that crashes out of the game & that's pretty much good enough for me.

Since stw I've played every TW game to death & beyond, and that amounts to alot of enjoyable hours killing & being killed.

Thing is that I can really only play these games for just so long, (essentially until I've exhausted every faction & all the different things I can think of to do). Based on this I'm happier knowing that CA's resources are being put into the development of the next release, rather than tweaking the current game.

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Originally Posted by Prodigal

Thing is that I can really only play these games for just so long, (essentially until I've exhausted every faction & all the different things I can think of to do). Based on this I'm happier knowing that CA's resources are being put into the development of the next release, rather than tweaking the current game.

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It will still come out unfinished though, so I don't quite understand your point :yes:

CA has just lost a customer. Me.

Shame really considering how i have to fight armies made up of literally nothing but Artillery and Millitia Crossbowmen in my Teutonic campaigns and pikemen which are still really really really broken in the ass.

Well at least they pushed me off the fence as to whether or not I should buy Kingdoms.

Well, to be fair... I think many of the things we'd like to see fixed, like the strategic and battle AI, are actually major game engine redesign issues. That's not the kind of thing we'd see in a patch. What they'd been doing lately are mostly band-aid fixes, like giving the AI factions more money to boost the challenge in Kingdoms, and tweaking the stat balance. Both of those options are available by modding the vanilla game even without a patch.

Yes, it would have been nice to see one more patch to fix whatever minor things they could still tweak without rebuilding the AI. But since it wouldn't be a major rebuild, we'd still be griping about "poor AI". Hopefully we'll be getting more of the changes we really want in ETW since they're doing a major rebuild of the AI, and I'd rather see them spend maximum effort on that.

I'm more angry at CA/Sega for the SecureRom thing (the reason I won't buy Kingdoms) than the lack of a final patch. I can still manage to have some fun with M2TW, using house rules to get the level of challenge I want.

This is sad, but very much expected considering the number of problems the game had upon release and the pace of patching as yet.

As many have posted countless times eversince the game came out, quantity has been taking over quality in TW eversince RTW. The games have simply too many features to keep reasonably under control or to allow balancing within the limited hours/resources a developer can dedicate to them. It follows that the new games suffer from bugs and imbalances and this is in a time that CA teams are considerably larger than in the past, when efforts towards a bug free and balanced game were more at least in number.

I have left the .com permanenty and do not wish to post there again, yet i commend positively on the OP stance and also on the resignation of the .com moderator (toxicseagul) relative to the matter.

Noir (aka excetchzebe)

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Originally Posted by Prodigal

Dunno about this, I'm more of a "does it run" player, if it does that's enough for me. Sure there are bugs but nothing that crashes out of the game & that's pretty much good enough for me.

Since stw I've played every TW game to death & beyond, and that amounts to alot of enjoyable hours killing & being killed.

Thing is that I can really only play these games for just so long, (essentially until I've exhausted every faction & all the different things I can think of to do). Based on this I'm happier knowing that CA's resources are being put into the development of the next release, rather than tweaking the current game.

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Dont take this as a personal attack but do you enjoy buying stuff that is half-broken? because that is what you are doing.

And more to the point, its not about how serious the bugs are or are not, rather that CA is laughing at us (or rather- you) for being suckered into buying an unfinished product and/or getting away with not fixing said product before they abandon it to get more money out of a fresh new bunch of suckers...

Tweaking is what you do when you have a bug free game and play around with it. Most people are asking for fixes, which is a whole different ball game.

I can't say I'm surprised by this, but I'm hopeful that ETW will be better. Though I won't be surprised if it isn't.