Understanding Christianity

What is Christianity?

"Christianity is just another one of many religions. They all teach people to live a good life."

"Christianity simply gives people a high standard of morals to try to follow."

"Christianity means going to church occasionally and being good to your neighbors."

Are any of these ideas about Christianity true? No! Though held by many people, each of these thoughts are wrong. Christianity is not just one among many religions. Nor does it simply call for a person to be good and attend church.

Christianity stands unique among all the world’s religious systems because it’s founder, Jesus Christ, is the Son of God. He came to Earth to reveal God to us in human form. This is true of no other religion. Jesus Christ is not simply another human being. He is God!

Therefore salvation (release) from the guilt of sin is possible only through Him. He said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6). "Salvation is found in no one else" (Acts 4:12).

A Christian is not someone who simply attends church, tries to be good on his own, or attempts to build up merit before God. Rituals and good deeds will not make you a Christian; you need a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. And this is possible only when you admit that you are a sinner and you turn to Him for forgiveness of your sins. That is why Jesus died on the cross; to bear your sins so that you can receive Him as your Savior. When you do, He will forgive you and give you eternal life. Then as a child of God, you can have fellowship with Jesus Christ in prayer, and you can depend upon Him for help each day. This is what Christianity is all about; salvation from sin and a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Will you trust Jesus Christ now as your personal savior? If you will do so, you will receive God’s free gift of eternal life and forgiveness of your sins. Turn to Him now in faith, realizing you can do nothing to save yourself. To become a Christian, pray a prayer something like this:

God, I confess that I am a sinner, and I realize I can’t save myself. So I ask Jesus to save me from my sin by forgiving me and giving me the wonderful gift of eternal life. I trust Him now as my Savior. Amen.


"What is Christianity" is actually from Dr. Roy B. Zuck, and the original tract can be found here: http://www.atstracts.org/readarticle.php?id=46


P.S. Please forgive me if I put this in the wrong subforum.

Hmm, now this would've garnered some very, uh, 'interesting' responses if it had been posted in the backroom. :wink:

Edit: I'm gonna take a swipe at this and guess you're a Lutheran, perhaps?

Mr.Lucius Julius... I feel like I just re-read my high school's mission statement and also what they had told me, and the rest of the student body:inquisitive:. They way it reminds me, is that they really pushed the Christ, in Christian and Christianity into you and your opst seemed eerily familiar. To me, it was nice to learn more about Christ, his dad (or God), and all that other fun stuff, but then I am, and many others, are told that the other roads lead to hell (seriously, they told us up front quite a few times). To me this(and only to me as I cannot speak for others on any large level), sounds like blah blah blah, saved or to hell, blah blah. And this is how I understand it.

I'm "Christian" but born Lutheran. It's under the umbrella of Christianity, but I find that the ones that actually call themselves "Christians" seem to have this sense of, "I'm better than you" type attitud, no offense to you or any other Christians on this forum. But, after going to a Christian school for 7-years, this seemed to have been an underlying theme and it really bugged, me and in some ways, has many people dislike it or turn away.

That's just how I perceive it all.

I don't want to say too much as I don't wish to:

a) come under too much censure from others

and more importantly

b) diminish other peoples beliefs in any way shape or form.

I'll start by saying that I have been raised (loosely) a Catholic. My parents instilled in me christian values, respect others, try to help others, don't be selfish etc. I also attended a Catholic school for the final 2 and a half years of high school.

I am an Atheist, I make no secret of it, I've read extensively about religion, spirituality and know more biblical quotes and religious phrases than the average christian, I've come to my own conclusions and don't wish to force others to it, they can decide for themselves.

Strangely enough, while the (compulsory) Religious studies course was mundane and boring, the teachers never pushed the whole, If you don't do as we say you're going down the wrong path, message, although they did express disapproval at some of our activities. Also my religion teacher, (actually the head of Sport and a devout Catholic) encouraged a lot of debate, and in the end, just before I graduated said that I pretty much was a christian due to my values and bearing and attitude and that he hoped that eventually I'd return to the fold.

However the emphasis was on God, and a personal relationship with all three aspects of God. God himself, His son, Jesus Christ, and the holy spirit, not merely through Jesus. Of course its all down to personal belief.

Unfortunately for you Lucius Julius, there are so many different books in the Bible, all written by different people with slightly varying ideas, that you can find passages to support just about every different sect of Christianity in existance. And they're all right in what they say.

I have to cut short here, as I'm needed elsewhere, but I'd just like to reiterate that I don't intend to offend anyone. This message is entirely my opinion.

Curio

EDIT: I'm also not sure if a thread to do with religion should be located in the frontroom (its a fairly inflammatory topic and might be better in the backroom, even though I can't post there... sigh)

Gordon Bennett LJ, does God give you a bonus for every person you sign up or something? Post this in the Backroom instead, and I'm sure Navaros will have some interesting conversations with you.

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Originally Posted by Decker

but I find that the ones that actually call themselves "Christians" seem to have this sense of, "I'm better than you" type attitud

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shoot, that pretty much describes most of the people i went to school with, regardless of affiliations.. teenagers suck.

If you don't mind my asking, what country do you live in? I'm in the U.S. and my experience has generally been that people who refer to themselves specifically by denomination rather than as just Christians are more likely to have that attitude.

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Originally Posted by Decker

I'm "Christian" but born Lutheran. It's under the umbrella of Christianity, but I find that the ones that actually call themselves "Christians" seem to have this sense of, "I'm better than you" type attitud, no offense to you or any other Christians on this forum. But, after going to a Christian school for 7-years, this seemed to have been an underlying theme and it really bugged, me and in some ways, has many people dislike it or turn away.

That's just how I perceive it all.

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I've actually heard preachers use the "storing up treasure in heaven" line to convince people to prosyletize :clown:

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Gordon Bennett LJ, does God give you a bonus for every person you sign up or something? Post this in the Backroom instead, and I'm sure Navaros will have some interesting conversations with you.

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To the Backroom with thee!

PS - Televangelism is one thing, but I have never heard of forumvangelism.

To the Backroom and awayyyyyyyyyy!

if that´s what you believe that´s fine and dandy.

for yourself...that is....

as long as you don´t come knocking on my door or telling me what I can´t do/watch/say/write, what laws I have to follow or how my kids should be taught we should get along splendidly..

Have a good one! ~:wave:

Jesus Christ never claimed to be God. The biblical passages where he is supposedly quoted as saying that are interpolations. He also never intended to establish a new religion. He intended to fulfill the prophesies of the reuniting of the twelve tribes of Israel and their elevation to world domination (referred to as the coming of the Kingdom of Heaven) by the intervention of God.

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Originally Posted by Beirut

To the Backroom and awayyyyyyyyyy!

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I was expecting something along the lines of: And He said there shall be Backroom!

I got to say that you expressed some ideas that are not often stressed to greatly by "Christians". I find that people who call themselves "Christian" often focus on punishment, good deeds, etcetera, and forget plenty of other stuff.

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Originally Posted by Ronin

what laws I have to follow

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Good point, also "Christians" focus and create false laws. Like don't drink alcohol (LOL! Jesus was a party animal!). Most of the "laws", are actually just guidelines to protect yourself.

Anyway before I bore y'all and myself I'll be quiet. And I can't really be bothered, since people are so endemically repulsed by religion, (due to ingrained falsehoods, created by centuries old corrupt "Church" system), no one really wants to hear about it anyway.

Ah, I was raised protestant Christian. When my parents said something, it had of course to be true. As I grew up, my understanding of Christianity and religions in general increased and....I became an atheist. :sunny:

Welcome to the Backroom Lucius Julius. ~:wave:

The fellows back here can seem a bit rough at times, but I assure you that they mean well. With precision and insight, they will challange and examine any issue you bring up, including (in this case) religion.

Lads, meet Lucius Julius, new guy back here. He wants to know what you think about his brand of christianity.

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

Welcome to the Backroom Lucius Julius. ~:wave:

The fellows back here can seem a bit rough at times, but I assure you that they mean well. With precision and insight, they will challange and examine any issue you bring up, including (in this case) religion.

Lads, meet Lucius Julius, new guy back here. He wants to know what you think about his brand of christianity.

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This is TOTAL BACKROOM! Yea, good post to stir up things here. :thumbsup:

Sounds like www.wayofthemaster.com

Ah, Lucius Julius...I recall you from Total War Centre. You won't recognise me, because I'm not signed in most of the time there (haven't been signed in for yonks - can't be bothered to dig up my old password). You've decided to make the Backroom here...more fun? 'tis never like TWC, I'll admit that (it always seems like a drunken brawl in the debate threads there...or a brawl...).

EDIT: Vladimir, this being Total Backroom, there's bound to be a few bugs. I find it particularly annoying when the AI - sorry, LJ - installs arguments you don't need and make no sense. Then it installs them on drives you don't want them on, and gives you no other options...

Then there's the Being Defeated By Logic and Stating Scripture elements of the LJ, unfortunately separate. One turn we will come up with a sound argument to debunk something in the Bible, thus ending a section of the debate - and next turn the LJ will attack us with the same scripture, stating it as the truth just because it is written down in a specific book. It should be fixed in Total Logicroom, the next game in the series, but that remains to be seen.

EDIT 2: Hey, LJ, how are those few chariot wheels at the bottom of the Red Sea doing? They proven any other part of the Bible yet?

EDIT 3: Failing all of this... All Hallowed are the Ori! :D

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Originally Posted by Lucius Julius

P.S. Please forgive me if I put this in the wrong subforum.

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Kind of ironic, given the rest of the post. :beam:

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Originally Posted by Viking

Ah, I was raised protestant Christian. When my parents said something, it had of course to be true. As I grew up, my understanding of Christianity and religions in general increased and....I became an atheist. :sunny:

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:2thumbsup: Ha... same here... only difference is i was raised a Hindu.

:inquisitive:

Now where's Adrian...?

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Originally Posted by kamikhaan

:inquisitive:

Now where's Adrian...?

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Y'all know that I was raised a Pastafarian. Later in life I began to question the dogmas and precepts. These days I am an agnostic. Yes, sir.

One satisfied agnostic. :yes:

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Originally Posted by Lucius Julius

Christianity stands unique among all the world’s religious systems because it’s founder, Jesus Christ, is the Son of God. He came to Earth to reveal God to us in human form. This is true of no other religion. Jesus Christ is not simply another human being. He is God!

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My religion's penis is bigger than your religion's penis?

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Originally Posted by Lucius Julius

If you will do so, you will receive God’s free gift of eternal life and forgiveness of your sins.[/B]

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I have no need for eternal life, and I can perfectly well seek forgiveness for my sins from the ones I have treated badly - I have no need for anyone else, so no, sorry, no salvation today.

:whip:

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Originally Posted by Zim

I've actually heard preachers use the "storing up treasure in heaven" line to convince people to prosyletize :clown:

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Really... well I haven't gone to my church in like... I dunno 4 years after our best pastor left for a larger church in New York. Recently we had a new pastor who was actually our pastor with the guy I just mentioned, literally :daisy: **** up! He put so much pressure on my mom who worked at an after school program that's renting space next to the church, that she quite. He even went as far as to tell a friend of my mom's, that, "if you are not with me you are not with God.":inquisitive: He even said we had a ghost in the church and claimed to have "expelled" it:yes:. Then he tried to forcefully take over the school and found out that they didn't like him so he left and is now currently stirring **** up at another church:whip:

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Originally Posted by Big_John

shoot, that pretty much describes most of the people i went to school with, regardless of affiliations.. teenagers suck.

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Yea basically. I went to a Christian school and actually the faculty had that sense which was stronger than most students I knew, except for this one douchebag. Anyways, the most rediculous thing they told us was, on a chapel day (basically church in the middle of the week), the math teacher was up talking about how "baaaaaad" Halloween is. Now, I was nodding off and then he uttered the infomous line..."if you take part in Halloween you are going to HELLLL:eyebrows:!!!! We me and some friends looked at each other and said, "whups too late, guess I'm going to hell.":yes:.

And to better understand Christianity...(yes this really happened), one must find how God, Jesus Christ, ect., is found in Math, your science project and other assorted things. Had to write a 2-page paper full of A+ bs material:medievalcheers: to answer that question.

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Originally Posted by Zim

I've actually heard preachers use the "storing up treasure in heaven" line to convince people to prosyletize :clown:

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Once when I was very young, I misunderstood what they meant and prayed for gold from heaven. :shame:

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Originally Posted by Goofball

My religion's penis is bigger than your religion's penis?

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Well said. I was thinking of telling Lucius Julius that there are other religions where a deitie's son has visited Earth - Mohammed, for example, in Islam. Of course, there are some very colourful stories in Hinduism...chopping the head off your own son, and having to replace it with an elephant's head? Man, they are thinking outside of the box. And...turning water into wine? Didn't Jesus understand that people need to be hydrated? Wine doesn't do a particularly good job of that, and in the day...

If someone turns water into wine for me, I'll throw it over them and tell them not to ruin my cup of tea next time. :laugh4:

Uh. Since when is Mohammed the son of God?

He was one of Allah's sons, right? Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. Still, there are more colourful tales than Christianity...come on people, an elephant's head on a kid! How cool is that? ;)

Mohammed was a prophet, not a child of Allah.

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Originally Posted by Kaidonni

...come on people, an elephant's head on a kid! How cool is that? ;)

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:laugh4:

Mohammed was visited by the Archangel Gabriel though. Not bad for an upstart.

Oh *sigh* Lucius Julius, not here as well.

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He wants to know what you think about his brand of christianity.

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No he doesn't.
He is trying to convert people.
He is kinda of a laughing stock over at TWC for it and not very popular since he pretty much do hit and runs.
Posts a thread filled with misinformation copy-pasted from some christian/creationist website trying to convert people and then is never seen again until a few days later when another thread pops up with the same type of message and leaves again.
Once we did get him to reply to a discussion he created and his response was pretty much "you are all blind therefore no point in discussing with you".

Anyway, LJ, what's the website where you copied this from ??

Original post doesn't have any misinformation in it.

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Jesus Christ, is the Son of God

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He is God!

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Misinformation right there.
Atleast keep the stories straight.
Being the son of god while being the god himself is just well sick.
Like something out of "Deliverance".
Unless Jesus is one god and "god" is another which makes christianity a polytheism. Of course with the trinity factor christianity is already one so I guess that just another deity to the tree.

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He will forgive you and give you eternal life

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Until you die of disease, old age or shot by some random drug addict etc
Reminds me of South Park.
"having sex with children had made him immortal so he lived for an eternity until he got hit by a train"

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Then as a child of God

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So that's why you don't get eternal life. Jesus gets jealous.
Common problem among first born

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For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son

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Is the one and only son us or Jesus ??
Make up your mind.

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Because He offers us the gift of eternal life freely

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Now that is just plain wrong.
If he offered it freely you wouldn't have to worship him or submit yourself to him or even depend on him.
That's like giving away free samples of food as long as you pay for it.

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the wonderful gift of eternal life

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Sorry but there is nothing wonderful about an eternal life.
It's a curse, not a gift.

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Originally Posted by Navaros

Original post doesn't have any misinformation in it.

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you are a lot of fun too Navaros....don´t worry the new guy won´t make us forget about you

Navaros might be feeling a bit threatened in his position here guys....let´s make sure we make him feel he is still important... ~:grouphug:

I´ll still laugh at your posts first Navaros...this new guy won´t take your place don´t worry.

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Originally Posted by Navaros

Original post doesn't have any misinformation in it.

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I thought you thought that Jesus was a bleeding heart good for nothing liberal? What's happened to your religious rigour man? I used to admire the way you stood up against these newfangled wishy washy cults, and how you preached hell and brimstone old testament. What's happened to the old Navaros? Has he mellowed?

Ah, Evangelical Christianity, potentially so small and self centred.

A relationship with Jesus Christ? How about a relationship with GOD?

Ooooh, I don't know which to choose.

I'm sorry but if you are going to try and convert people at least come with your own ideas, not what your "Preacher" has told you. Go away, read the Bible and then come back and try and convert other people. If your faith can withstand the glaring condradictions in the Holy Press Pack I'll take you seriously.

Personnally, I'm of the opinion that seeking Eternal life is a garrenteed way not to get it.

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Originally Posted by TB666

Oh *sigh* Lucius Julius, not here as well.

No he doesn't.
He is trying to convert people.
He is kinda of a laughing stock over at TWC for it and not very popular since he pretty much do hit and runs.
Posts a thread filled with misinformation copy-pasted from some christian/creationist website trying to convert people and then is never seen again until a few days later when another thread pops up with the same type of message and leaves again.
Once we did get him to reply to a discussion he created and his response was pretty much "you are all blind therefore no point in discussing with you".

Anyway, LJ, what's the website where you copied this from ??

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We don't 'do' laughingstocks' here. Everyone gets to have his/her say, with respectful consideration shown.

On the other hand, we also don't 'do' unattributed, un-linked copy/pastes either. We see that as cheating, a padding of one's own views by employing an unidentified 'ringer'; that ringer's words masquerading as one's own.

Thread is temporarily closed, pending staff inquiry.

Thanks for all contributions thus far. :bow:

-Update-

Thread is re-opened. New Member Lucius Julius did not have access to the backroom previously, and thus could not respond. He will be granted access soon, and has been advised of the rules we operate under here.

For clarity: the opening post contains material originally written by Roy B. Zuch, and is viewable on the web HERE.

This is the only right version of christianity for the record!

Seriously, it's pretty much what I have been raised with, not so sure about it anymore as some may know, but it sounds very known to me, which in turn is kinda scary because it always sounds the same. :stupido2:

I do however think that some of you could be a bit nicer anyway, believe it or not but there's no reason to ridicule him, I don't think he had any evil intentions.

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

We don't 'do' laughingstocks' here. Everyone gets to have his/her say, with respectful consideration shown.

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Well we don't do that at TWC either.
Just certain members who do the same thing over and over again over time become one.

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For clarity: the opening post contains material originally written by Roy B. Zuch, and is viewable on the web HERE.

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Still hasn't learned. :shame:

Do note that I'm not bashing LJ or his beliefs.
I respect him and his beliefs as I suggests others to do as well.
He is overall a friendly poster that unlike other's like him doesn't flame other people.
However I do ask that he respects others people's religion(and athiests) and in some cases their sexual preference(I'm pretty sure there is some homosexuals on this forum) which I know he doesn't.

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Originally Posted by TB666

If he offered eternal life freely you wouldn't have to worship him or submit yourself to him or even depend on him. That's like giving away free samples of food as long as you pay for it.

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:laugh4:

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Originally Posted by TB666

(I'm pretty sure there is some homosexuals on this forum) which I know he doesn't.

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I think that there is 1 in the backroom.

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Anyway, LJ, what's the website where you copied this from ??

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I didn't copy this from a website, I had "What is Christianity" in real life, while typing it here. But the website is this: http://www.atstracts.org/readarticle.php?id=46

A Moderator just told me about that website.

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A relationship with Jesus Christ? How about a relationship with GOD?

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God and Jesus are one and the same under the Trinity.

The Holy Spirit never gets any love. The red-headed stepchild of the Trinity. :yes:

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Originally Posted by Lucius Julius

I didn't copy this from a website, I had "What is Christianity" in real life, while typing it here. But the website is this: http://www.atstracts.org/readarticle.php?id=46

A Moderator just told me about that website.

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Which is exactly like what you typed hence copied and if you copy then you must provide a source. It's the common form. If it's a book then name the author and book. If it's a movie then state the movie etc.
Trying to pass off things as your own is dishonest and I'm pretty sure the bible goes against that.

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God and Jesus are one and the same under the Trinity.

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Is that a banjo I hear playing in the background ??

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Originally Posted by TB666

Is that a banjo I hear playing in the background ??

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:inquisitive: Says the Viking.

911 AD, never forget!

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Originally Posted by TB666

Is that a banjo I hear playing in the background ??

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:laugh4: :laugh4: Man, TB666, you are lethal!

Being raised Catholic... well... I'm pretty much with the rest of the atheists... I just don't care anymore...

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

911 AD, never forget!

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What exactly am I looking for here ??

Honestly, I can't respect any religion that allows one to murder, rape, steal, and be a Republican all their lives and still be forgiven with two minutes of confession and still go to Heaven (Catholic), nor can I respect a religion that completely ignores a person's good deeds in favor of a five second proclamation of accepting Jesus Christ as their savior (Protestant).

All hail Lord Xenu!

So, death to the infidel it is? :inquisitive: If you like Democrats you should love Catholics.

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Originally Posted by Lucius Julius

God and Jesus are one and the same under the Trinity.

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Yes, they are, but you run the risk of seperating them by focusing on the Jesus of the Gospels far too much. Those biographies were written about the man he may have been the God Incarnate but that was not how he manifested.

Although, the Holy Trinity isn't actually in the Bible at all, though.

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Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae

All hail Lord Xenu!

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"give us all your money or we will sue and possibly kill you"

-scientology, the most honest religion.

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Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae

Honestly, I can't respect any religion that allows one to murder, rape, steal, and be a Republican all their lives and still be forgiven with two minutes of confession and still go to Heaven (Catholic)

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You have to regret it, you have to actually feel sorrow and proportionate regret for what you did for it to really count with God.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

You have to regret it, you have to actually feel sorrow and proportionate regret for what you did for it to really count with God.

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Even so, there are some acts of violence that should never be forgiven, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae

Even so, there are some acts of violence that should never be forgiven, in my opinion.

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i'd be more troubled by the people that could live completely good lives but still end up in eternal torture because they believed in the wrong gods.

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Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae

Honestly, I can't respect any religion that allows one to murder, rape, steal, and be a Republican all their lives and still be forgiven with two minutes of confession and still go to Heaven (Catholic), nor can I respect a religion that completely ignores a person's good deeds in favor of a five second proclamation of accepting Jesus Christ as their savior (Protestant).

All hail Lord Xenu!

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LMAO! :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by TB666

Is that a banjo I hear playing in the background ??

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Nah, I prefer mandolins. :beam:

This is what they are: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandolin

Sorry to go off topic, but wanted to clear that with you.

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This is the only right version of christianity for the record!

Seriously, it's pretty much what I have been raised with, not so sure about it anymore as some may know, but it sounds very known to me, which in turn is kinda scary because it always sounds the same.

I do however think that some of you could be a bit nicer anyway, believe it or not but there's no reason to ridicule him, I don't think he had any evil intentions.

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I have a question, Husar, do you truly believe? Your post suggests that you are Christian.

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Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae

Honestly, I can't respect any religion that allows one to murder, rape, steal, and be a Republican all their lives and still be forgiven with two minutes of confession and still go to Heaven (Catholic), nor can I respect a religion that completely ignores a person's good deeds in favor of a five second proclamation of accepting Jesus Christ as their savior (Protestant).

All hail Lord Xenu!

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Just to set the record straight... Confession isn't a "Get out of jail free" card. If anything, it was psychotherapy for the masses, centuries before it ever beame vogue in the secular world.

When you go to confession, strictly speaking, the priest isn't actually 'doing' anything. He doesn't forgive you. He acts as a witness, to acknowledge that God has forgiven you. People frequently say "Well, I don't need a middle man, I can just confess to God". There's a psychological barrier to confessing your sins to another human being. Laying in bed one night, looking at the ceiling, and saying "Geez God, I'm kinda sorry" is a world away from sitting down and telling somebody exactly what a wretch you can be sometimes.

But it's very cathartic. Because it's so hard, you get a lot more out of it. Thinking of God as an actual person you have to have a personal discussion with about your sins is incredibly difficult, but it also helps get some perspective.

And before you start thinking "Well, I just show up and say what I've done and I'm home free", I have some bad news. It doesn't work that way. Priests don't grant absolution in an absolute sense. The forgiveness is predicated on your sincere remorse. Only you and God know for certain whether you truly repent for your sins and therefore only the two of you will ever know for certain that you were truly absolved. The priest usually says something to the affect of "In so much as you are truley remorseful, the Lord in His infinite mercy and kindess forgives you".

In other words, if you're not sorry, don't waste your time or God's saying you are.

Isn't Catholic Confession a sacrament though, which it isn't in Anglicanism?

(Anglicans still have Cofession though.)

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Isn't Catholic Confession a sacrament though, which it isn't in Anglicanism?

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Yes it is, and described these days as the sacrament of reconciliation - which for once, is more descriptive of the idea than the old name.

I still prefer being shriven though. :beam:

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Originally Posted by Lucius Julius

I have a question, Husar, do you truly believe? Your post suggests that you are Christian.

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I think I'm drifting hard towards agnosticism for many reasons I don't want to lay out here. I did believe before but it's become harder and harder for me. :shrug:

I am drifting back towards Roman Catholicism. I still don't believe in a God, but I've decided to fake it until I do.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Yes it is, and described these days as the sacrament of reconciliation - which for once, is more descriptive of the idea than the old name.

I still prefer being shriven though. :beam:

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Sounds painful. Do you need to go to the hospital after being shriven?

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Sounds painful. Do you need to go to the hospital after being shriven?

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I believe it's performed in a hospital, and that they use a local anesthetic.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Yes it is, and described these days as the sacrament of reconciliation - which for once, is more descriptive of the idea than the old name.

I still prefer being shriven though. :beam:

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So how does that square with what Don said? Isn't the participation of the Priest essential in order to administer the sacrament, in which case you can't be forgiven without his blessing?

Sorry, I have trouble getting my head around Confession.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

So how does that square with what Don said? Isn't the participation the Priest essential in oder to administer the sacrament, in which case you can't be forgiven without his blessing?

Sorry, I have trouble getting my head around Confession.

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The Roman Catholic faith is a faith of intercessors. You pray THROUGH Saints, you confess THROUGH priests. It is a way to pray and do penance in community with others. It is a big deal in many faiths, but the RC church happens to use it in reconciliation as well.

Why not? It makes us unique.

"The Catholic Church maintains, however, that there is also a social aspect to sin. Sin not only affects our relationship with God, sin also alienates us from other people and the Church." - www.americancatholic.org

-------After his Resurrection, Jesus told the apostles, “Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained” (John 20:23).

-------The Letter of James says, “Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful” (5:16).

What exactly happens when you get 'shriven'?

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Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff

The Roman Catholic faith is a faith of intercessors. You pray THROUGH Saints, you confess THROUGH priests. It is a way to pray in community with others. It is a big deal in many faiths, but the RC church happens to use it in contrition as well.

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You don't have to pray through Saints. The only one besides God that I've ever prayed to is the Virgin Mary. Never even prayed to St. George (archery), St. Sebastian (athletes), Sebaldus (my hometown), or Julian the Hospitaller (murderers).

Wait, did I really say that?

You don't pray TO Saints, you merely pray in community with them TO God.

I updated my previous post with some new stuff that I found.

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Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff

You don't pray TO Saints, you merely pray in community with them TO God.

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Well, yes, true.

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Originally Posted by Quirinus

What exactly happens when you get 'shriven'?

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To shrive is the archaic term for the act of a priest hearing confession and pronouncing absolution.

I'm just an old traditionalist. To me, religion went downhill when the peasantry was allowed to have its own bibles... :wink:

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Originally Posted by 1066 and All That

The Chapters between William I (1066) and the Tudors (Henry VIII etc) are always called the Middle Ages, on account of their coming at the beginning; this was also The Age of Piety, since Religious fervour was then at its height, people being (1) burnt alive with faggots (The Steak) (2) bricked up in the walls of Convents (Religious Foundations) and (3) tortured in dungeons (The Confessional).

All this was not only pious but a Good Thing, as many of the people who were burnt, bricked, tortured, etc. became quite otherworldly.

Nowadays people are not so pious, even heretics being denied the benefits of fervent Religion.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

I'm just an old traditionalist. To me, religion went downhill when the peasantry was allowed to have its own bibles... :wink:

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If that's such a large beef for you, maybe you should consider Scientology ~;p

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Originally Posted by Husar

I think I'm drifting hard towards agnosticism for many reasons I don't want to lay out here. I did believe before but it's become harder and harder for me. :shrug:

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We all know you're a nazi, Husar, you're not fooling anyone.

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Originally Posted by Zim

If you don't mind my asking, what country do you live in? I'm in the U.S. and my experience has generally been that people who refer to themselves specifically by denomination rather than as just Christians are more likely to have that attitude.

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Well coming from a more mainstream Protestant grouping, the Evangelicals I know call themselves 'Christians', not by their individual denomination, and do not recongise other denominations as Christian.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

We all know you're a nazi, Husar, you're not fooling anyone.

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And this from a notorious Stalinist. Tsk tsk.

*unfurls Trotskiite banner*

:book2:

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Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

Well coming from a more mainstream Protestant grouping, the Evangelicals I know call themselves 'Christians', not by their individual denomination, and do not recongise other denominations as Christian.

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Do they sing catchy songs about how everyone else is going to hell?

They do here, and they are catchy. Doesn't stop me having a profoundly negative opinion of their theology though.

One, two, three!

United forever in friendship and labour,
Our mighty republics will ever endure.
The great Soviet Union will live through the ages.
The dream of a people their fortress secure.

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

And this from a notorious Stalinist. Tsk tsk.

*unfurls Trotskiite banner*

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Yeah, well...

My guy stayed in power longer than your guy, hah! :smash: :smash: