Come on out from under the bridge...

Okay, deep inside every backroom regular, there lives a troll. For some of us, it's a momentary surrender to temptation that is quickly recognized and returned to the dark recesses until another 'jailbreak' :ballchain:. For others of us, the troll comes out all too often (in fact, there's a few of us that have given the troll the keys). :7clown:

:weirdthread:

I'm glad you asked... So this thread is all about celebrating the inner troll, yours, mine and everyone elses. Post some of your favorite trolls (ones you've rolled out, ones you've seen go by). Post some of your least favorites. Post some of the ones you know you're prone to falling victim to.

Maybe, we might all just learn a thing or two about our inner trolls and how better to control them.

I'll go first. One of my worst troll moments relates to the 'cultural war' on Christianity. It's not a true troll, because I know it is true, but to a more limited stance then my threads would let on. But every year, , I start a thread about the war on Christmas. And every year, like a very special Christmas present from one of my better friends in these parts, Goofy comes in and blows a fuse over how "I'm taking it out of context, and it's not Christmas or religion that's being restrained, but prostelyzing". Thank you old friend, it warms the heart, like a cookie exchange for the holidays. :bow:

Ones I'm prone too? Whenever somebody's bored and decides to post a thread about how 9/11 was really perpetrated by Mossad and the CIA, to jack up the price of oil for Bush and his oilman buddies. Get's me every time. :bomb:

I try not to troll. In fact, I try not to post in such a way as to draw debate as often as possible. However, there are a few kinds of threads that I will react to, and usually harshly - threads on Dresden, Soviet war crimes, and the European Union.

What I perceive as a misconception about or an insult towards my country I will also react quickly to. I try to be civil in my first post in the thread, but if a debate ensues, I tend to be a little harsh sometimes. Also, I can be rather defensive of my own religion - I don't promote it, I may mention that I am Catholic once in a while, and I hate when atheists or those of other religions try to bull their religions (or lack of the above) through. I respect yours - respect mine. Fortunately, there are usually others who I can leave the debate to in that scenario.

Well, I tend to avoid trolling as well, but a few things just irk me a bit too mightily.

1) People assuming that they're religion is automatically better than everyone else's and can never for the life of them figure out why someone might believe something differerent than they do.(Coincidentally, this had resulted in me trolling some of my classmates at my Catholic High School).

2) People who claim to be pro-life but only concern themselves with abortion.(Coincidentally, this has resulted in me trolling some of my classmates at my Catholic High School).

3) People who make huge, sweeping, blanket statements about other people's, cultures which they really have no clue about.(Coincidentally, this has resulted in me trolling some of my classmates at my Catholic High School)

4) Religious hypocrites who love to tell everybody about how awesomely great, devoted, serving, and MODEST they are.(Coincidentally, this has resulted in me trolling some of my classmates at my Catholic High School)

5) My Catholic High School.(Coincidentally, this has resulted in me trolling some of my classmates at my Catholic High School)

P.S. --I have no problem with Catholics; I actually am one. But some of them just irk me so... and my school pretty much fell off the rails years ago.

My personality is trolling by nature. Tuffstuffmcgruff the poster and Tuffstuffmcgruff the troll are two sides of the same coin. I love irritating people and digging holes that neither of us can get out of.

My favorite trolls are any of the ubiquitously race/sex-baiting gems that I leave all around the forum. I'm only moderately racist, if that is even the term for what I am and I've dated girls of all colors. My little brother and sister are mullato puerto ricans for crap's sake.

I always fall for the "Homosexuals are born that way" troll because it is such speculative BS and I don't understand why people can forsake religion because it can't be verified but live and breathe unverified assumptions about sexuality and nature.

Jeez.

PS-Kamikhaan: You will miss those arguments in Catholic school because in the real world people don't care about important social/religious questions unless they are on Oprah or the 10 oclock news. When I transfered to a public high school - I was shocked when nobody wanted to discuss medieval church philosophy, so I immediately went back to Catholic school. As you get older, Catholics know less and less about their own Religious "beliefs". Cherish the explanations of the details while people remember them.

Oh me so guilty :fishing:

Perfect example would be the Hitler is a socialist thread. And I will never miss an oppertunity to compare multiculturalists with religious zealots, just because they are.

Does sniping from the sidelines count as trolling?

Well, there was that 'Greeks deny Macedonians entry into NATO because they're having a 2000 year old hissy fit.' thread.

That was the title, right? :book:

Other than that though, not really.

CR

Anything involving Frags.

:whip:






But I still love him in a very gay way :dancing:

owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww ~:grouphug:

Forgot about my #1 rule for a better world, leave no pole unannoyed

"All Blacks Are Violent - is this a true statement? Or are they no worse than wallabies and springboks?" - Posted during the rugby world cup, and got people foaming at the mouth as desired. Unfortunately, someone then gave the game away by explaining that the All Blacks were the New Zealand rugby team.

"Schoolgirl Loses Virginity Ring Fight." - First 3 words were the thread title, last 2 words the content, linked to the news story about a schoolgirl who wasn't allowed to wear a ring symbolising her virginity. A fantastic reply to views ratio, mainly consisting of people admitting they'd been fooled and others asking why everyone was so keen to read the thread. Kukri spoiled this particular one by clarifying the thread title.

I don't think I've done much politically motivated trolling here, as my appetite for it has pretty much been sated elsewhere. Instead, my trolls have mostly been to provoke reactions and amuse people, like the above.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww ~:grouphug:

Forgot about my #1 rule for a better world, leave no pole unannoyed

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I didn't know you danced?

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

I didn't know you danced?

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:laugh4:

I tend to troll when someone uses the statement, "I'm not a racist but...", that really gets me! Kinda like saying "I'm not a murderer, but ... STAY STILL WHILE I STAB YOU!!!".

I don't do trolling - but then I'm really just a backroom irregular, so perhaps that makes me excused. :sweatdrop:

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

and I hate when atheists or those of other religions try to bull their religions (or lack of the above) through. I respect yours - respect mine.

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If you truly did, you wouldn't be saying that, because you'd respect my belief that rationality must be promoted and irrational claims weeded out. Since a god belief of any kind is irrational, it is my conviction that it must be challenged and destroyed where possible - especially since the majority of theists are so because they were brainwashed by their parents in the first place.

That's something that I hate and can get me off, by the way - when religious people claim they somehow have the right to indoctrinate their children, or when religious people claim exclusive rights to morality, or when religious people...

(Besides, no belief deserves respect, least of all one based on faith. If I thought that the earth was flat, would you say no one has the right to challenge that belief either?)

https://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7828/troll1ne8.jpg

I admit it...I am sort of guilty of being like a troll...especially when people excuse Humanity damaging our planet and things along those lines. I chunter to myself when reading the newspaper, though, and probably do that more than post here in the Backroom.

To illustrate this, though, it's that thing on Global Warming. Greenhouses gases do have an effect on warming, because that is what makes our world not a frozen ball of ice like Europa in the first place. We might be in that thing called the Habitable Zone, but that doesn't defacto make our planet habitable and a nice temperature to go. Sure, solar activity might also be involved, and our current weather extremes and climate changes have taken place in so miniscule an amount of time that you could say it's pretty much all pointless, and just normal for an interglacial period (which I do have trouble imagining ending after only 12,000 or so years - don't ice ages and interglacials usually last a few hundred thousand years?). But, greenhouses gases are still involved. It's all to do with planetary atmospherics, and how planets absorb and re-radiate energy, and so on. It could be arrogant to say that we can't affect the climate, but it is just as arrogant to say we should be allowed to pump out whatever we want and however much we want into the atmosphere, that we are infallible.

There, said it. LOL. It really annoys me when newspapers just print letters that really don't get it, too. So what if CO2 was 16 times higher during one of the ice ages? We do have to go deeper and consider all factors, including the idea that the climate was in a balance with the CO2 then (all that ice, ocean currents, etc, balancing out with the CO2), and might not be now, and so on...it's all complex. I just watch debates online turn into a train wreck...LOL. I could get involved a lot more, but... I try to refrain from trolling because I'm afraid of being drawn into a heated debate where I get all wound up. I don't like getting myself wound up too much. Likely that the above example would have been one or two posts, and then I'd duck out to save my own skin...LOL.

There are only two things that annoy me to the point where I feel like trolling:

1) Blind nationalism
2) People equating Stalin/Hitler (Still can't get over that)/Lenin/Mao, etc, etc with modern Democratic Socialism.

so much fun. it's true by the way.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

so much fun. it's true by the way.

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*Foams at the mouth*

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Originally Posted by CountArach

*Foams at the mouth*

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It's a start but it takes more then a shave to root out such evil

I must say I enjoy pointing out religious absurdity (mainly catholic because of my upbringing) and just sit back and wait for the backlash....Navaros always produces some fun posts :laugh4:

I have been a good boy about it lately though :saint:

ohhh...and republicans caught with their pants down having hot, sweaty man on man hairy butt-sex is always a cause for giggles too...watching the GOP supporters reply to that is always a hoot.:yes:

*double post*

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Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking

Since a god belief of any kind is irrational

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I think there is a debate in here about 'Does God exist', where the Theist position crushed the atheist position. And I think the theist position used a rational argument.

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Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane

I think there is a debate in here about 'Does God exist', where the Theist position crushed the atheist position. And I think the theist position used a rational argument.

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Then again...uhm....your opponent was not able to complete the debate for RL reasons. :book2:

This will probably not surprise anyone: I hate to turn with the other mackerels. As soon as nine out of ten posters agree on an issue, I hide in a phone booth, change into SuperAdrian and fly to the defence of the defenceless, the unusual, or even the plain idiotic.

For fun, mostly. But sometimes I mean it.

I miss Tony Blair, my bestest friend in the world! :embarassed:

Mind you, our Great Leader is shaping up nicely to take over his mantle, as a wassock. :laugh4:

https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i...sen/Trolls.jpg

I use to say stupid, meaningless, sometimes inflammatory things, sometimes I mean them, sometimes I don't and sometimes I'm not sure myself whether I mean them or not. ~D
Don't know whether that fits trolling. :shrug:

When IA makes posts like the above, I have to restrain myself - Every. Single. Time. :furious3:

On other occasions it is normally one of three things - Chavez bashing, Immigrant bashing or stating how 'prison works' and 'those eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil people should be locked up foreverandeverandeverandeveramen.' :dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking

I don't do trolling - but then I'm really just a backroom irregular, so perhaps that makes me excused. :sweatdrop:

If you truly did, you wouldn't be saying that, because you'd respect my belief that rationality must be promoted and irrational claims weeded out. Since a god belief of any kind is irrational, it is my conviction that it must be challenged and destroyed where possible - especially since the majority of theists are so because they were brainwashed by their parents in the first place.

That's something that I hate and can get me off, by the way - when religious people claim they somehow have the right to indoctrinate their children, or when religious people claim exclusive rights to morality, or when religious people...

(Besides, no belief deserves respect, least of all one based on faith. If I thought that the earth was flat, would you say no one has the right to challenge that belief either?)

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:laugh4: Irony... too... great... can't... stop... :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Hi, My name is Seamus and I am an internet troller.

<<insert group response>>

My "troll" is usually well restrained. Last time he slipped out, the Backroom had been running a little slow and I...

:shame:


I....


:shame:


...opened a thread mentioning the use of firearms for personal defense.


:shame: :yes: :shame:


Oh, I knew what I was doing alright. I knew I was goading that loathsome beast out and into the fray -- it was wrong and I knew it. You don't show a briefcase of petrodollars to a congressional committe chair or invite Mayor Barry over to view your pipe collection without knowing that you are crossing the line.


I have been goaded successfully once. Shambles, operating as "Just a Girl" lobbed a blanket insult to the intelligence of all US citizens. Being an ardent -- though not polyannish -- nationalist, I made the mistake of responding rather than using the ignore feature. This is, of course, exactly what Shambles sought. Soly slapped me with a banstick for suggesting that Shambles make a solo effort at something anatomically impossible. I lost, Shambles won -- because the shambler didn't care about being booted and I did. There is a lesson there.


Anyway, that's my story. Trust in my higher power and take it one day at a time.

Next?

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Originally Posted by Husar

I use to say stupid, meaningless, sometimes inflammatory things, sometimes I mean them, sometimes I don't and sometimes I'm not sure myself whether I mean them or not. ~D
Don't know whether that fits trolling. :shrug:

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Trolling is provoking a reaction, and I have never seen you say anything remotily inflammatory personally. See if I say that I have doubts about Chavez being the greatest man who ever lived, fair, honest, devine, I am likely to get a reaction from JAG, telling me that I am not smart because I'm dumb. That's trolling.

The last couple of points raise an important question.

Just exactly where does the troll lie? If you know you hold a somewhat or even very controversial stance (for example if I stated my belief that you have the right to shoot an intruder in your home that is threatening the health and safety of you or a loved one), but you truly believe what's coming out of your mouth, is that a troll? What about if you believe it, but you're not posting it to express your views, but because of the reaction that you know will ensue (for example, that President Bush, in terms of actual dollars, has given more to Africa then all U.S. Presidents prceeding him, and more than almost all other world leaders)?

So, does the troll lie in the controversy of the belief itself?
Does it lie in the core motivation behind one's post?

Or does a true troll require a certain amount of, shall I say, disingenuity? In other words, are you purposely altering your true views to enhance the reaction?

I thought of another one... one of my personal favorite repeating ones... Guaranteed, like Godzilla rising up from the depths of the ocean, ready to breathe radioactive fire, only to disappear back to the murky depths once the destruction has been visited, I love playing the guessing game of how long it will take for Navaros to enter into a discussion on gay rights. :wizard:

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Anyway, that's my story. Trust in my higher power and take it one day at a time.

Next?

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God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change the courage to change the things I can and wisdom to know the difference. :bow:

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When IA makes posts like the above, I have to restrain myself - Every. Single. Time.

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:laugh4: :whip: :yes:

Just like to use sarcasm, the english language is just way too much fun to play with. I like my actual point to be mildly annoying to the receiver. If you want my humble opinion I am pretty good at it ~;)

I like trolls that don't know what the hell they are talking about.

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Originally Posted by Viking

Then again...uhm....your opponent was not able to complete the debate for RL reasons. :book2:

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Those who claim a belief in God is irrational needs to get their *** kicked up and down long street, twice!!!

How is that for trolling?

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Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane

Those who claim a belief in God is irrational needs to get their @ss kicked up and down long street, twice!!!

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I am still waiting for you to state your case in an adult thread, not some sheltered kindergarten called a 'debating thread'. And my trusty size nine goes into your tiny theist rear a lot more than your Jesus slipper goes into mine.

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How is that for trolling?

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You just succeeded! :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

I am still waiting for you to state your case in an adult thread, not some sheltered kindergarten called a 'debating thread'. And my trusty size nine goes into tiny theist rear a lot more than your Jesus slipper goes into mine.

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Oh yeah??

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Originally Posted by Leet Eriksson

I like trolls that don't know what the hell they are talking about.

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Me too

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Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane

Oh yeah??

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Are you thick? Of course! :furious3:

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Originally Posted by kamikhaan

:laugh4: Irony... too... great... can't... stop... :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

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Man I fell of my seat! LOL! I'm so glad you made me notice that one! :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

Are you thick? Of course! :furious3:

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Why don’t you just stop soiling my lawn with empty words and start spreading some real fertilizer? :beam:

How about starting a thread with an affirmative argument that says: God does not exist, because … etc.
Let's see which shoe fits in which ***.

...
:laugh4:

I dunno, a little poke here or there doesn't really qualify as trolling, does it? I will confess, however, to trolling: I created a thread about Republican sexual scandals, and I couldn't let go for a while. It wasn't all my fault, though; there were a lot of scandals in the news at the time. (Let's not even go here, with the 272 Republicans charged with criminal offenses, only 60 of whom are pedophiles.)

Anyway, that thread induced forum rage in just about every Republican on the board, which was pretty cool. Otherwise calm and sensible Orgahs were screaming some pretty hilarious things. Yeah, I was trolling.

However, this is real trolling.

:laugh4: Hilarious. My little pony indeed. :laugh4: :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane

I think there is a debate in here about 'Does God exist', where the Theist position crushed the atheist position. And I think the theist position used a rational argument.

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Wow, that's all sweet and dandy, though kind of irrelevant. If you don't like me calling it irrational, please present the evidence you have of a god... any god, really.

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Originally Posted by Kamikhaan

:laugh4: Irony... too... great... can't... stop... :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

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It would only be irony if I was actually trolling. I was not. Glad to know I spread some happiness, though.

Or is there some other irony there that I missed? :inquisitive:

I don't really troll much, I'm usually sitting on the sidelines and observing more than posting anyway. The one thing that tempts the troll in me is just plain ignorant posts, usually from a newer member, usually full of grammatical and spelling errors, sometimes in leetspeak. I get really offended by these, and might sometimes feel the urge to put my two cents in before the mods take action. I know it's irrational, but it's like someone walking into your living room and taking a ginormous dump on the carpet. I like the atmosphere and quality of debate here, and hate to see it ruined by posts like these.

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Originally Posted by drone

The one thing that tempts the troll in me is just plain ignorant posts, usually from a newer member, usually full of grammatical and spelling errors, sometimes in leetspeak. [..] I know it's irrational, but it's like someone walking into your living room and taking a ginormous dump on the carpet. I like the atmosphere and quality of debate here, and hate to see it ruined by posts like these.

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Seconded! :bow:

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On other occasions it is normally one of three things - Chavez bashing, Immigrant bashing or stating how 'prison works' and 'those eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil people should be locked up foreverandeverandeverandeveramen.'

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Hmm, that reminds me...

Back before time as we know it began, and there was only the tavern, JAG was posting in some thread about prisoner rehabilitation and how great and progressive it was that some criminal teen got a PS2 for behaving well in juvie and I wouldn't stop asking if his victim got a PS2 from the state.

:book:

CR

Hmm.

:helmet:


Just as there are no gays in Iran, there are no trolls in the Backroom.



This has been an official announcement from the Ministry of Truth.

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Originally Posted by drone

I don't really troll much, I'm usually sitting on the sidelines and observing more than posting anyway. The one thing that tempts the troll in me is just plain ignorant posts, usually from a newer member, usually full of grammatical and spelling errors, sometimes in leetspeak. I get really offended by these, and might sometimes feel the urge to put my two cents in before the mods take action. I know it's irrational, but it's like someone walking into your living room and taking a ginormous dump on the carpet. I like the atmosphere and quality of debate here, and hate to see it ruined by posts like these.

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They have to start somewhere - I'm sure we dropped off a few polished deuces when we first came here. At least I'm sure I did.

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Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking

Wow, that's all sweet and dandy, though kind of irrelevant. If you don't like me calling it irrational, please present the evidence you have of a god... any god, really.

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The only point I wanted to make was that believing in a God might not be irrational.

If I presented a valid argument that God exists, it would then be rational as all arguments built on valid premises and a valid conclusions becomes a rational argument.
Would you disagree?

And if you want to challenge me to a debate on the existence of God, you will have to prepare an affirmative proposition and present it. I will do the same.

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Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking

It would only be irony if I was actually trolling. I was not. Glad to know I spread some happiness, though.

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You were. You were stating your opinion in a provoking way, a way that stated that your opinion was the only fact.

If you respected my religion, you would not have posted that it was irrational. I have never said atheism is irrational - just that I disagree with it. That is exactly the kind of response that ticks me off.

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Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane

The only point I wanted to make was that believing in a God might not be irrational.

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The point I'm making is that believing in something you have no evidence for is irrational. So far no one has been able to prove the existance of any god, which is why I call the belief in one irrational. It's that simple.

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If I presented a valid argument that God exists, it would then be rational as all arguments built on valid premises and a valid conclusions becomes a rational argument.
Would you disagree?

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Uhm... no, not really. If you make a rational argument, the argument will be rational. Duh.

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And if you want to challenge me to a debate on the existence of God, you will have to prepare an affirmative proposition and present it. I will do the same.

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I don't do formal debates. If you have any evidence for your position, I'd ask you to present it, because if you have any, I'd be first in line to see. Surely you don't need the form of a debate to prove your claim if you have solid evidence, do you?

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

You were. You were stating your opinion in a provoking way, a way that stated that your opinion was the only fact.

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What opinion? That theism is irrational? That is fact. It is irrational to believe in any claim that isn't backed by evidence - or even worse, to believe in a claim that goes against the evidence.

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If you respected my religion, you would not have posted that it was irrational. I have never said atheism is irrational - just that I disagree with it. That is exactly the kind of response that ticks me off.

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But that's just it, isn't it? I fail to see why I should respect your belief any more than I should respect any other belief - like someone believing that the world is flat, for example. Should I not try to tell him that "hey! It's not flat! It's actually a sphere, see these pictures taken from space as evidence"? Should I just respect his belief even though it's wrong?

Evidence... seems like a running theme in my posts here. :thinking:

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

:helmet:

Just as there are no gays in Iran, there are no trolls in the Backroom.

This has been an official announcement from the Ministry of Truth.

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I am guilty of being a troll today. Sometimes I just can not help myself when it just jumps out of the screen at what an easy target someone has just presented for me to grab the fishing line and go a trolling......:clown:

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Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking

It would only be irony if I was actually trolling. I was not. Glad to know I spread some happiness, though.

Or is there some other irony there that I missed? :inquisitive:

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First off, I would say you were trolling to a degree, whether or not it was intentional, because of the degrading way you attempted to portray your counterpart.

But yah, there's another irony you're missing. You claimed that a person who didn't tolerate your intolerant views regarding tolerance to be, well, intolerant. You want to be able to practice your viewpoint and lambaste someone for intolerance of it; at the same time, you'd much rather no other view to be allowed to be exercised.

But really, did a priest run over your pet dog when you were a child, or what? Not like it hurts you if JasonX wants to go to mass on Sundays...

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Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking

If you truly did, you wouldn't be saying that, because you'd respect my belief
[SNIP]
Besides, no belief deserves respect

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The paradox is also great. :bow:

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Originally Posted by kamikhaan

First off, I would say you were trolling to a degree, whether or not it was intentional, because of the degrading way you attempted to portray your counterpart.

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Uhm... you can't troll unintentionally, because trolling is defined by intent.

How did I try to portray anyone in a degrading way? (Remember: attacking an argument/belief is not an attack on the person making the argument/holding the belief.)

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But yah, there's another irony you're missing. You claimed that a person who didn't tolerate your intolerant views regarding tolerance to be, well, intolerant. You want to be able to practice your viewpoint and lambaste someone for intolerance of it; at the same time, you'd much rather no other view to be allowed to be exercised.

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Uhm, no. I pointed out the maniac from Mars' irony - that he wanted others to respect his beliefs, while he doesn't respect my beliefs. I never said that you should respect my beliefs - in fact, I want you not to. If I hold a belief that I shouldn't hold, I want you to point it out for me. I want to be shown when and where I'm wrong - otherwise I wouldn't learn anything ever.

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But really, did a priest run over your pet dog when you were a child, or what? Not like it hurts you if JasonX wants to go to mass on Sundays...

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Thanks for the condescending remark. I'm not speaking out because "I'm angry" (since when is being angry a bad thing anyway?), but because it's irrational, and it makes people behave irrationally. People hamper research because of it, people discriminate homosexuals because of it, people are generally bigots and have "holier-than-thou-mentalities" because of it, people kill other people because of it. You can't say that other people's beliefs doesn't hurt others, because they do.

Even so, I've said this before and I'll say it again, irrationality should be removed and replaced with rationality, regardless of whether those beliefs hurt me personally or not. Someone believing the earth is flat doesn't hurt me, but if I find someone who believe it is, I'll still try to show them how they're wrong. Wouldn't you?

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Originally Posted by Rhytmic

The paradox is also great. :bow:

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As I explained to kamikhaan, that paradox was intentional. I was trying to show Mars' hypocricy when he wanted others to respect his beliefs, at the same time as he obviously doesn't respect my belief that beliefs don't deserve respect. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

Who would have thought? A thread about trolling turns into a thread with trolling...

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Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking

What opinion? That theism is irrational? That is fact. It is irrational to believe in any claim that isn't backed by evidence - or even worse, to believe in a claim that goes against the evidence.

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:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Rationality is a tool of the devil, he invented it trying to get more of his atheist followers. If god opened your eyes you would see how wrong this way of thinking is but I'd rather see you burn at a stake...

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Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking

As I explained to kamikhaan, that paradox was intentional. I was trying to show Mars' hypocricy when he wanted others to respect his beliefs, at the same time as he obviously doesn't respect my belief that beliefs don't deserve respect. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

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Sure. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by CountArach

Who would have thought? A thread about trolling turns into a thread with trolling...

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I agree CA, it was rather predictable. I think we should get back on topic, rather than derail this thread.

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Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking

How did I try to portray anyone in a degrading way? (Remember: attacking an argument/belief is not an attack on the person making the argument/holding the belief.)

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When you stated that NO belief deserves respect. The unnecessary attack on ALL religions, in one massive, blanket statement.

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Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking

Uhm, no. I pointed out the maniac from Mars' irony - that he wanted others to respect his beliefs, while he doesn't respect my beliefs. I never said that you should respect my beliefs - in fact, I want you not to. If I hold a belief that I shouldn't hold, I want you to point it out for me. I want to be shown when and where I'm wrong - otherwise I wouldn't learn anything ever.

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Well, generally, people in the free world have the right to follow whatever religion they want to, or even to follow none. I don't think its too hard to ask of a person that they tolerate the beliefs of others when religion is no longer the driving force behind western politics.

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Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking

Thanks for the condescending remark. I'm not speaking out because "I'm angry" (since when is being angry a bad thing anyway?), but because it's irrational, and it makes people behave irrationally. People hamper research because of it, people discriminate homosexuals because of it, people are generally bigots and have "holier-than-thou-mentalities" because of it, people kill other people because of it. You can't say that other people's beliefs doesn't hurt others, because they do.

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Wow, nice way to categorize every religion in the world as 'teh evilz'. Perhaps you're not aware of the fact that religions were some of the first institutions to encourage the giving of money to the less fortunate, to helping those who couldn't always help themselves? Religion does many good things for society, more so than ever before. For example, a Lutheran church in my town just recently sent just over $1 million in aid to Africa to help with the Aids crisis. And no, didn't require that they all convert to Lutheranism to get the aid, either. Or was giving aid irrational...

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Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking

Even so, I've said this before and I'll say it again, irrationality should be removed and replaced with rationality, regardless of whether those beliefs hurt me personally or not. Someone believing the earth is flat doesn't hurt me, but if I find someone who believe it is, I'll still try to show them how they're wrong. Wouldn't you?

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So wait... How are homosexuals rational? Its not as though a homosexual couple can naturally reproduce. Its not as though humans evolved to desire two men or two women as parents. If anything, homosexuals are irrational, because they break the logic of natural human course. So why NOT discriminate against them, by that logic? If research involves the use of embryonic stem cells, why shouldn't we avoid it when its been shown that adult stem cells which don't kill anything, are much more useful and efficient? Other than that, I really don't know of any other incidents where research was impeded by religion.

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Originally Posted by kamikhaan

If anything, homosexuals are irrational, because they break the logic of natural human course.

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I never knew that basic emotions such as love were based upon rational thinking. Oh well, there goes that thought. :inquisitive:

How did this thread become a debate about religion? :inquisitive:


Anyway, back to topic.

I never troll, but the art of trolling seems... fun, in an evil, "Join the Dark Side" kind of way.

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Originally Posted by Andres the newbie, amteurish troll

"R3ligi0n sux! U all sUck! Suxorzzz!!1!1 U Stup1d !1!"

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Actually, it's... hilarious :laugh4: :embarassed:

And much easier then searching/reading correct information to give an educated answer to prove your opponent wrong :shrug:

Must... resist... temptation...

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Originally Posted by kamikhaan

When you stated that NO belief deserves respect. The unnecessary attack on ALL religions, in one massive, blanket statement.

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I still don't see where I attacked any person...

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Well, generally, people in the free world have the right to follow whatever religion they want to, or even to follow none. I don't think its too hard to ask of a person that they tolerate the beliefs of others when religion is no longer the driving force behind western politics.

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And you have the right to believe whatever you want. It's when you act on those beliefs that problem arises. If people didn't do that, I wouldn't be here talking about it at all. At least not as passionately, because it's still irrational. Please my flat-world-example.

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Wow, nice way to categorize every religion in the world as 'teh evilz'. Perhaps you're not aware of the fact that religions were some of the first institutions to encourage the giving of money to the less fortunate, to helping those who couldn't always help themselves?

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Oh, you mean like when they're not asking for donations for themselves?

By the way, I'm a socialist for crying out loud - and I am so without a religion telling me to be. Go figure.

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Religion does many good things for society, more so than ever before. For example, a Lutheran church in my town just recently sent just over $1 million in aid to Africa to help with the Aids crisis. And no, didn't require that they all convert to Lutheranism to get the aid, either. Or was giving aid irrational...

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And that could not be done without religion, you mean? I also don't think the $1 mill weighs up all the damage you're doing there by preaching for people not to use condoms...

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So wait... How are homosexuals rational? Its not as though a homosexual couple can naturally reproduce. Its not as though humans evolved to desire two men or two women as parents. If anything, homosexuals are irrational, because they break the logic of natural human course. So why NOT discriminate against them, by that logic?

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Because that logic is flawed. Homosexuality isn't a belief - it's a sexual orientation, and it's a natural phenomena. It's not like it happen amongst other animals too... (In case you didn't notice, that's sarcasm.)

How about not making any more strawman arguments from now on?

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If research involves the use of embryonic stem cells, why shouldn't we avoid it when its been shown that adult stem cells which don't kill anything, are much more useful and efficient? Other than that, I really don't know of any other incidents where research was impeded by religion.

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Begging the question. Stem cell research (and abortion in general) isn't murder. By that logic, your god would be the worst murderer of all time (as if he isn't already - every death that happens would be because of him, if he existed), because of the millions of sperm that are wasted in every ejaculation, every natural miscarriage and so on.

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Originally Posted by Husar

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Rationality is a tool of the devil, he invented it trying to get more of his atheist followers. If god opened your eyes you would see how wrong this way of thinking is but I'd rather see you burn at a stake...

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LOL! You've completely convinced me. I must convert! :clown:

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Originally Posted by Paraphrased from more than one person

The Celtic Viking is a troll.

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No, YOU'RE the trolls! (Okay, THAT was trolling. ~:rolleyes:)

Um. Ok. I thought, we we're moving the topic back to its original purpose. And, I'm trying real hard to ignore the several obvious flaws in the post above. So... lets continue...

So I'll go first at re-aligning the skewed thread! I tend to troll sometimes, it depends on the topic and my mood. I find typing somewhat cools my temper and mellows me though. I kinda get bored, and thus give up etcetera. Anyone else like that?

I like to troll against stupid, immature teenagers who say stupid, uninformed, immature things like I would say when I was a stupid, immature, uninformed teenager. :sorry:

:shrug:

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Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking

[...]How about not making any more strawman arguments from now on?[...]
Begging the question. [...]

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It seems to me that you are quite the debater. You are even pointing out logical fallacies.

I have not seen any valid affirmative propositions for atheism. I am therefore calling it a fact that atheism is irrational and hence absurd.

A valid and hence rational proposition.

Oh, let's have another topic of the kind and settle this once and for all. ~;)

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Originally Posted by Viking

Oh, let's have another topic of the kind and settle this once and for all. ~;)

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Go for it. Both sides will be able to make excellent points, but in the end, you cannot conclusively and utterly prove or disprove the existence of God. That's why it's called faith.

Aww... do I have to get back on topic? I was having fun... :jester: I love how every religion debate turns into 'us' vs 'them' atmosphere, regardless of what a person might have been originally intent on debating... anyways... I've also noticed I tend to counter-troll against people who make large, sweeping judgements while at the same time assuming everybody agrees withe their perspective on issues which are prevalent to the matter at hand, though not necessarily directly the base of the question.

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Originally Posted by kamikhaan

So wait... How are homosexuals rational? Its not as though a homosexual couple can naturally reproduce. Its not as though humans evolved to desire two men or two women as parents. If anything, homosexuals are irrational, because they break the logic of natural human course. So why NOT discriminate against them, by that logic? If research involves the use of embryonic stem cells, why shouldn't we avoid it when its been shown that adult stem cells which don't kill anything, are much more useful and efficient? Other than that, I really don't know of any other incidents where research was impeded by religion.

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Ones ideas about nature should always be checked against actual outcomes in nature.

So by your assumptions about nature most ants and bees are irrational because they don't all reproduce?

Considering that there are estimates that 1/3 of the worlds animal biomass is made up of ants they are very successful in spreading their genes. They leave it to a few specialised individuals and then look after them. So it would seem rather natural and rational not to have every member as a reproductive one. :whip:

Other incidents... telescopes...

Oh yeah, I have another confession to make...

Whenever I see nationalists bragging about their country, I get an uncontrollable desire to bash that country... Even more so if the statement touches double standards or chauvinism...

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Oh yeah, I have another confession to make...

Whenever I see nationalists bragging about their country, I get an uncontrollable desire to bash that country... Even more so if the statement touches double standards or chauvinism...

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nationalism is one of the funniest/saddest things in the world. the idea that an individual can take some form of pride in happening to have been born within the physical/legal boundaries of a nation-state... i mean, lol?

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Originally Posted by Big_John

nationalism is one of the funniest/saddest things in the world. the idea that an individual can take some form of pride in happening to have been born within the physical/legal boundaries of a nation-state... i mean, lol?

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Poland is the obvious exception though. it is so great that even simply by being born within its borders one becomes superior to all known life.

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Originally Posted by Big_John

nationalism is one of the funniest/saddest things in the world. the idea that an individual can take some form of pride in happening to have been born within the physical/legal boundaries of a nation-state... i mean, lol?

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Why not? You take pride in your parents on merit of being born to them, your ethnicity on merit of being born to certain people, all "luck of the draw". So why not feel pride for being from the nation that gave you education, order, benefits, and so on? I'm proud of my country, and I'm not ashamed to say it.

Being a nationalist does not mean you're an intolerant maniac.

Why not? You take pride in your parents on merit of being born to them

personally i take pride in them because of the people they are, if i was born to some sick serial killers i would not take pride

your ethnicity on merit of being born to certain people

I feel no paticular attachment to my skin colour, infact whenever its sunny enough i try and make it darker.

So why not feel pride for being from the nation that gave you education, order, benefits, and so on?

why should you feel pride for your country because of these things ? unless you come from a pretty poor family the chances are your parents covered most of these things for you by giving the state it taxes, the state was just giving the money back, even if Germany did something amazing politically it would be the politicians to be proud of or regular germans.

The only time i really feel something close to nationalism is probably sporting events.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

So why not feel pride for being from the nation that gave you education, order, benefits, and so on? I'm proud of my country, and I'm not ashamed to say it.

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I'm certainly grateful to my nation, and deeply glad that I was born into it. I feel love for my nation, certainly, and pride in what it stands for. But the whole "Proud to be Freedonian" thing kinda leaves me cold. It's very strange to be proud of something in which you had no say.

Are we proud to be in the Milky Way? Are we proud of Sol, life-giving Sol without whom there would be nothing but darkness and death? Are we proud of the tectonic forces that shaped our continents? Are we proud of the process of evolution that led to us being the top predator, as opposed to the giant lemur?

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding how the word "pride" is applied here.

Grateful to be an American? Yes. Glad to be an American? Heck yeah. Proud of the principles on which the United States were founded? You know it, brother. But proud of having been born in the United States? That's just weird.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Grateful to be an American? Yes. Glad to be an American? Heck yeah. Proud of the principles on which the United States were founded? You know it, brother. But proud of having been born in the United States? That's just weird.

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I suppose that's a fair opinion, that I can agree with to a certain extent. Let me rephrase what I said. I'm proud of being German, but it doesn't matter to me whether I was born there or not.

EDIT: It doesn't mean I think it's necessarily the best country, but I'm still proud of it.

Bah, I used to be a nationalist when I were younger, but later I found no logic in it. No nation can the ultimate example and nor can any culture. I rather start from scratch when it comes to values than exepting blindly what is. The tag on me that reads "Norwegian" is one that I'd rather get rid off. :smash:

My trolls are probably:

1. A pretty common one, the 'my religion in better than yours' brigade. Often Atheists can be the most stubborn of the lot.

2. Nationalists with the 'my country is better than yours' beliefs.

3. People who argue against socialism by referring to Joseph Stalin.

4. The Catholic Church. Not its average followers, but the hierarchy and its actions.

5. Family values. I just never liked them.

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Originally Posted by Viking

Bah, I used to be a nationalist when I were younger, but later I found no logic in it. No nation can the ultimate example and nor can any culture. I rather start from scratch when it comes to values than exepting blindly what is. The tag on me that reads "Norwegian" is one that I'd rather get rid off. :smash:

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Awwwww kindly allow us to fold you in the warmth of our embrace, only a select few can be the best. Get over it.