New KOTR game:Faction Poll

Hello everyone. With SS 4.1 having a decisive lead in the mod poll I thought it might be appropriate to have a poll to narrow down the possible faction choices*. I've taken the liberty of combining a few especally similiar faction to prevent their bleeding votes from eachother.

My thought is to do this like EF's mod poll, and narrow it down to a few possible factions for another, final poll.

Anyway, here goes nothing. The poll is multiple choice. Thanks to anyone who votes

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Edit: Since Tincow kindly deleted my extra polls this can be spoiled. Ok, at this point even having staying up all night is no excuse. :shame: If I fail this time, I'll have to go into Org exile until I have a cup of coffee or get 8 hours of sleep, whichever occurs first. I apologize to all affected by my poll spam.

I voted for England, France, Spain/Portugal/Aragon, Milan/Venice/Sicily, ERE, and Turkey. I see advantages and disadvantages to each one, which I will outline below.

England
Pro: Proper Feudal system that would mesh well with our rules. Internal dissent amongst nobles, including the occasional bloodshed, was common enough that it wouldn't be out of place. In SS 4.1, the British Isles have a lot of provinces, so we would be able to gain a good number without conquering half the world.
Con: England is always popular, and thus perhaps a bit boring. Isolation in a corner makes it unlikely for the AI to ever challenge us.

France
Pro: Feudal system which was historically extremely turbulent and thus would fit our rules almost precisely. In SS 4.1, starts with a large number of provinces and avatars and has easy access to many more without steamrolling half of Europe. Surrounded by many potentially strong enemies. Interesting unit roster.
Con: Possibly boring for people who want something other than another Western powerhouse faction.

Spain/Portugal/Aragon
Pro: A definite culture shift away from what we're used to, but still Catholic and thus fun with the Pope. Unit rosters (for Spain & Portugal) are a bit less conventional. Iberia has many provinces that can be used for rank purposes without conquering half of Europe.
Con: All start small, would require more time and conquest to get large number of provinces for rank purposes.

Milan/Venice/Sicily
Pro: Interesting unit rosters. Central spot on the map allows for expansion in many areas and many potential enemies. Increased power of nobility/merchants (for Milan and Venice) can mesh well with our rules.
Con: All start small, would require more time and conquest to get large number of provinces for rank purposes. Same spot we were playing in for most of KOTR. I'll be prancing around northern Italy for the rest of my life!

ERE
Pro: Different in almost every way from previous games, except for the fact that we'd be 'Roman' once again. Good starting spot with a decent number of starting provinces and access to many more. Orthodox religion and crossroads position will probably result in more challenging AI. More serious threat posed by Mongols & pals. Very different unit roster.
Con: Absolute monarchy isn't ideal for our dissenting nobility rule structure, though we could make it work. No Pope fun.

Turkey
Pro: Not Western, thus a big break from WOTS and KOTR. Easy access to a large number of provinces without conquering half the world. Crusades and Mongols & pals will add to the challenge.
Con: Not Western (yes, it's both a Pro and a Con), and not an ideal historical match for our rules, though again we could make it work. Horse archers out the wazoo. Outremer aficionados will find themselves stuck in the desert for another year.

I would be happy with any of the above, though my two highest votes would go to France if we wanted a western faction, and ERE if we wanted a non-western faction.

I voted for everything but the HRE. We did it once, it was fun, now I'd like to do something else.

England and France seem to jive well with our rules. I'm not too worried about the AI being weak. With the way some of you fight, the AI will be weak no matter what we do. I rather pick a faction that will give us the best RP opportunities. The AI will be almost non-existent in my mind. If I wanted a challenging AI, I'd just load up an SP game. I'm so "green" at battles, that E/E still presents a challenge. ^_^

Italy and Iberia would be fun but start small. RBG's will allow us to recruit but titles would be scarce for awhile.

Outremer factions would be a blast but I admit I am biased. Being the Templars would be a lot of fun. Just watch "Kingdom of Heaven" and you'll see that there were a wide variety of personalities. :D

ERE would be interesting if only because we tried so hard to vilify them IC last game.

Eastern Europe factions have the advantage of lots of room to expand. (ah, the endless steppes... nothing bad could ever come out of there...) :laugh4:

Denmark and Scotland would be the hardest since they are so tiny and locked in. But I think we could make them work.

I voted for France. It seems to have the best combination of the things we're looking for, and plus there's the very good chance that we can do something yet to be completed in these PBMs: Invade Britain and Iberia.

I voted Italy, Iberia and Templars.

I might have voted France also but people would have thought me biased...

(I'll start a French beginner's course if that faction is chosen... Or maybe I'll have a rule added asking that all IC posts be made in French... The revenge of the French :whip:)

Having given this some thought in the interim, I think France or the ERE are our best bets. Unfortunately, I didn't vote for France. :sweatdrop:

Poland would probably be my first choice, Kiev and Novgorod to the East, plenty of rebel places for us to snag, threat of Mongols later on, has the Pope to worry about and crusades to go on, powerful factions to the West (HRE), South (Hungary) and North (Denmark). Enemies on all sides but with plenty of room, sounds perfect.

Voted England, one pro tincow forgot, longbowmen are no longer AP, which does feel like cheating when you use 6-10 units of them. So winning battles with England wont be as easy as in vanilla.

France, I would look forward to a beginners guide to french orders and warfare.... :)
Templars could do with it also, but there my lowest preferance, since they'll be stuck in the desert allmost all game


Also voted ERE, as they get new units and are surrounded

and the turks, for janissary fun.



All in all, France seems the best, plus we'd get to rename the ranks to include count (says this with bad french accent) and other fun french titles

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Originally Posted by Tristan de Castelreng

Or maybe I'll have a rule added asking that all IC posts be made in French... The revenge of the French :whip:)

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That could cause much humor in the game. I can see the Dread Duke turning to the Idealistic Crusader in the Parliament and saying, "excuse me, but I believe I soiled my knickers" when he really meant to say "I will cut your heart out with a spoon!" :clown:

I wonder who will play the next dread duke?

I have a pair of black metal shoulder plates here that I used to wear when I was writing his stories. :balloon2:

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Originally Posted by AussieGiant

I wonder who will play the next dread duke?

I have a pair of black metal shoulder plates here that I used to wear when I was writing his stories. :balloon2:

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Thats awesome.

I wish I could say that I would wear a big white cape with a red cross stitched on it when I logged in but I didn't.

As for who will play the next one, we'll see. From my experience, it seemed people would start moving to the other end of the spectrum when they perceived the one end as having too much presence. As for me, I'm curious what traits my avatar will have. If he has enough "dread" traits that I think will be fun to RP, then I'll give it a spin.

Voted Templar, Denmark and Novgorod.

Although admittedly Templar doesn't suit civil warring.

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Voted Templar, Denmark and Novgorod.

Although admittedly Templar doesn't suit civil warring.

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I'm not so sure FH. I'm tempted to vote Templar. I like the Order and its history, all the intrigue and back stabbing could be good.

And who knows what went on behind the scene's back then.

It might be a stretch to have a civil war in the Templar Order but I'm sure we can find a way. :2thumbsup:

That being said, I'm sure there would be plenty of oppurtunities for intrigue and backstabbing. These guys became some of the first "bankers" in the area and ended up getting hunted due to in part to the money that Kings owed them.

I want to play these guys just so I can go and read a ton of books on them. And learn from everyone on here when they do their own research. :beam:

This group is definitely one of my top picks. NN's Templar AAR is helping wet my appetite as well. :yes:

Finally posted in my own poll. :clown:

The Eastern Romans were my first pick. I really enjoy their history, and backstabbing and civil wars seem completely appropriate for Eastern Roman politics. I think they even started to feudalize a bit in this period with the themes. Their unit roster is completely different from the European ones (well, as different as MTW2 rosters get). Lastly, I think they'd make a neat connection with the other KOTR type games. Not only were they a nemeis of sorts in the KOTR, but with the WOTS being a Roman game, and us playing the Holy Roman Empire in the KOTR, it seems we should play the last "Roman" faction. :beam:

I also rather like Poland as a choice. A tumultuous history, feudalism starting to creep in during the game's time frame, and another neat unit selection (marred only by the lack of a long ranged unit, but that just makes it more fo a challenge). Poland also has a history of the nobles becoming powerful and challenging the King, which seems to fit our rules. Plus, the Mongols are much closer to home.

The Russian factions are another favorite of mine, as are the Catholic factions on the periphery of Europe (I shamefully missed Denmark, though, which I planned to vote for. :shame: ). :2thumbsup:

my problem with the Templars is the fact that they only have one province to begin with and it is very hard to build up with them. IMO they do not suit the current rules we have, they are an interesting faction but not good for a large PBM if you ask me.

Oh and I believe it is 'whet' your appetite, as in to sharpen. God I'm only 15 and I know more than you :clown:

edit: last comment addressed to PK, a very serious comment as well, to be taken in full seriousness without a single hint of unseriousness allowed. Any unseriousness detected will be punished accordingly.

I suppose if we play the templars.. we can always just rename them in game... to say... the Kingdom of Jerusalem, Latin Kingdom or whatever, and then use that as a basis for civil wars instead of a relegious order.

oooh 6.0's out!!
this thread made me check 4.1 features.. and... YAY!
wow big download... but YAY!

ahem, excited childishness over, I'm assuming this renaming would work off Barcamatin renaming to the swejuks in the BC hotseat...will it work?

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Originally Posted by Elite Ferret

God I'm only 15 and I know more than you :clown:

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The more you learn, the more you realize that you don't know anything.

(this post is just as serious as EF's post. you can feel the seriousness sizzle in the air. it is palpable.)

<----- notice there is no clown smiley. If anything, this should confirm just how very serious this post is...

6.0!!!!!!

*runs off to TWC*

edit: lol PK

huh?

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

huh?

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I'm assuming their drooling over the new version of SS that takes Kingdoms.

@Jeebus, the renaming should work though it is not really important what it says in-game, we can always change it out of the game or keep it the same and have a civil war anyway. We weren't exactly historically accurate in KotR were we...?

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Originally Posted by Elite Ferret

We weren't exactly historically accurate in KotR were we...?

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not in the least... :laugh4:

Curses, I should have waited 10-20 minutes before having made a serious post, to prevent burying. :clown:

Go ERE! :jumping:

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Originally Posted by Elite Ferret

@Jeebus, the renaming should work though it is not really important what it says in-game, we can always change it out of the game or keep it the same and have a civil war anyway. We weren't exactly historically accurate in KotR were we...?

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I know, I just wanted to make a serious point after drooling so much...

look at this and tell me honestly that its not drool worthy :clown:

Zim does raise an intressting case for Poland, but I think with Polish nobles and Strelzy, wont early expansion be unbelievably easy?
then again, I guess everyone is sick of mailed knights by now so they could be a nice change.

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Originally Posted by Zim

Curses, I should have waited 10-20 minutes before having made a serious post, to prevent burying. :clown:

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But if you read EF and mine posts, you'll see that at least your serious post were only buried by very serious posts that were practically oozing with serious seriousness. :clown:

seriously?
:clown:

Theoretically we'll have some rules on what types of units can be in armies to prevent this but even that won't stop us from stomping the AI. :clown: For what it's worth, SS has a script to greatly increase the cost of maintaining an army in enemy territory to slow down expansion a bit. I think we'll still expand quickly if we want with any faction but, since the focus of this game will be on player competition and interaction, it won't matter too much.

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Originally Posted by 00jebus

I know, I just wanted to make a serious point after drooling so much...

look at this and tell me honestly that its not drool worthy :clown:

Zim does raise an intressting case for Poland, but I think with Polish nobles and Strelzy, wont early expansion be unbelievably easy?
then again, I guess everyone is sick of mailed knights by now so they could be a nice change.

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Originally Posted by 00jebus

seriously?
:clown:

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seriously...


On an even more serious note, I just checked out SS 6.0 at TWC and I might consider checking it out when ever I feel like quitting this whole silly grad-school thing...

It looks very nice...

I voted for France, as it was the best example of feudalism in Europe. ERE is also interesting, but it might bring back too many KotR memories of unification.

So far we have the ERE in the lead, Iberian factions and Templars tied for second 2 points behind, and France in third place. :charge:

I'm glad there is going to be another round of voting. I'll definitely vote different than before. How many are you cutting out for next time? Half of the factions? Any that get at least half the votes?

I'm amused that Iberia is doing so well. For all the votes, there is very little conservation about it. People are talking far more about France but it has less votes. ^_^

BTW, go Templars go!

Actually, I think Cecil mis-voted for Iberia, intending it to be cast for France.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I got out of his post.

I forgot about that, but I thought he only forgot to vote for France. So, 5 other people (besides me) voted for Iberia. I only voted for them because they were not the HRE. In the second voting round, I'll be more specific.

I had a couple of ideas about how to do the next round. My original plan had been to take the factions garnering the highest number of votes (as of this moment perhaps anything with 5+) and hold a final poll to choose one from them. In this case I'd keep this poll open a few more days, to ensure everyone possible gets to vote on it, before starting the next one.

I could also do it in a couple more stages, cutting out the lowest half or so of the factions for the next poll. In this case I could do the second poll sooner, since it seems pretty obvious which factions will stay on the bottom. Then, if none scored a decisively victory in poll #2, a third and final one would be done with the top 2-3 factions.

Either way I was thining of eliminating the ability to choose multiple factions in the next poll, so we're all forced to pick the one faction we prefer most.

What do you guys think?

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Originally Posted by Zim

I had a couple of ideas about how to do the next round. My original plan had been to take the factions garnering the highest number of votes (as of this moment perhaps anything with 5+) and hold a final poll to choose one from them. In this case I'd keep this poll open a few more days, to ensure everyone possible gets to vote on it, before starting the next one.

I could also do it in a couple more stages, cutting out the lowest half or so of the factions for the next poll. In this case I could do the second poll sooner, since it seems pretty obvious which factions will stay on the bottom. Then, if none scored a decisively victory in poll #2, a third and final one would be done with the top 2-3 factions.

Either way I was thining of eliminating the ability to choose multiple factions in the next poll, so we're all forced to pick the one faction we prefer most.

What do you guys think?

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Just my thought:

If your going to do 3 polls total, let the second one be multiple choice. Then make the last be one choice.

If your going to do 2 total, then have the 2nd be one choice.

If we had time, I'd say we should do a game of "save my next faction for KotR 2.0" Just leave HRE out of this poll and put up a new one 24 hours after this one got posted. Then do a new poll every 24 hours taking off the least popular faction. It could be fun. :D

Poll number three would only occur if there wasn't a decisive victory in number two, something more likely if the next poll had at least half of the factions left (possibly watering down votes as they spread out). I suppose I could do a multiple choice poll with the top 50% of factions from this one tonight or tomorrow, then the third non-multiple choice if none achieved a decisive lead in that one. :yes:

I thought of a save my faction game, but figured we'd want to decide the faction relatively soon incase players wanted to mix up the rules a little to match the faction.

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

Just my thought:

If your going to do 3 polls total, let the second one be multiple choice. Then make the last be one choice.

If your going to do 2 total, then have the 2nd be one choice.

If we had time, I'd say we should do a game of "save my next faction for KotR 2.0" Just leave HRE out of this poll and put up a new one 24 hours after this one got posted. Then do a new poll every 24 hours taking off the least popular faction. It could be fun. :D

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Originally Posted by Zim

Poll number three would only occur if there wasn't a decisive victory in number two, something more likely if the next poll had at least half of the factions left (possibly watering down votes as they spread out). I suppose I could do a multiple choice poll with the top 50% of factions from this one tonight or tomorrow, then the third non-multiple choice if none achieved a decisive lead in that one. :yes:

I thought of a save my faction game, but figured we'd want to decide the faction relatively soon incase players wanted to mix up the rules a little to match the faction.

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Figure just let everyone vote once per 24 hour poll. Most of us are on at least once every 24. :D

The save my "insert name here" game has turned out to be more fun than I thought. ^_^

Heh, well then it would become an issue of geting permission to put up that many polls (or switching to a format like the save my avatar game that would reward ability to always be online ot vote more than popularity of faction. :clown:). And it would still take a week and a half or so (week or less if I still cut the bottom 50% from this poll). Anyway, I won't be ending this poll for a while no matter what happens, so we have plenty of tie to discuss it. Noone gave me the title of "Lord of the Faction Polls" (someone should have. :clown:) so anyone's input is welcome and just as important as my own. :yes:

Alright, so far potential candidates for the chopping block are HRE (shockingly :clown: ), Hungary, Scotland, Milan/Venice/Sicily, Denmark, Poland (:cry:), Kiev/Novgorod , The Moors, Turkey, and Egypt. Fans of these factions better get votes in for them! :beam:

I was mainly joking about the "save my faction" game. I would certainly play if it were started but I don't expect a huge turnout.

I went with the Romans.

As for them being an absolute monarchy... good gods no! The ruling Basileos sure would've loved to rule with an iron hand, but the fact is that it was pretty much a derived form of patrician families resembling ancient Rome ruling from large landed estates which... well is a feudal system in everything but name (and that oath-swearing business I guess :inquisitive: ). Add to it land grants to soldiers from elite cavalry units and terribly huge administration whose titles represented power (and tended to be accompanied by, you guessed it, more land grants), I'd say the Romans slyly created their own version of a feudal system though it was somewhat different from what was happening in Europe during the same age. Though in Rome, the power was supposedly centralized into the hands of the Basileos, he still had to rely on the great families and their beneficiaries. Think of it as Senators with titles. The astonishing number of coups and attempted coups gives a general idea of the "centralization" of power at the time. Mind you, most history books gleefully ignore everything from social administration to basic economics of the Roman Middle-Ages and concentrate on its military and diplomatic aspects...

And for that matters, the Seljuk's of Anatolia followed suit as well. It was basically the only viable societal and economic system for nearly as long as mounted warriors were the staple of military tactics.


Uh... me love Rome mmmkay?

:clown:

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Originally Posted by Zim

Heh, well then it would become an issue of geting permission to put up that many polls (or switching to a format like the save my avatar game that would reward ability to always be online ot vote more than popularity of faction. :clown:). And it would still take a week and a half or so (week or less if I still cut the bottom 50% from this poll). Anyway, I won't be ending this poll for a while no matter what happens, so we have plenty of tie to discuss it. Noone gave me the title of "Lord of the Faction Polls" (someone should have. :clown:) so anyone's input is welcome and just as important as my own. :yes:

Alright, so far potential candidates for the chopping block are HRE (shockingly :clown: ), Hungary, Scotland, Milan/Venice/Sicily, Denmark, Poland (:cry:), Kiev/Novgorod , The Moors, Turkey, and Egypt. Fans of these factions better get votes in for them! :beam:

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I think you mean England and not Poland.

But only one faction has more than 50% of the vote and that is ERE.

Actually I meant to include both since they were at 4 votes at the time. :oops:

When I said the bottom half I meant the half who received the lowest number of votes, not all of those that received under 50% of the votes. Much as I'd like to declare the Romans the winners, I'm guessing people who voted for other factions that ended up on the bottom will want to change their votes. :yes:

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

I think you mean England and not Poland.

But only one faction has more than 50% of the vote and that is ERE.

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Originally Posted by Zim

Actually I meant to include both since they were at 4 votes at the time. :oops:

When I said the bottom half I meant the half who received the lowest number of votes, not all of those that received under 50% of the votes. Much as I'd like to declare the Romans the winners, I'm guessing people who voted for other factions that ended up on the bottom will want to change their votes. :yes:

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Well there are 15 choices. So half is 7 or 8.

6 choices have 5+ votes.

4 choices have 4 votes

5 choices have 3- votes

So, you can decide the cutoff is 5 votes which narrows it down to 6.

Or, the cutoff is 4 votes which leaves it at 10.

Or split up the ones that got 4 votes.

Or do something else. ^_^

Assuming no more votes for the poll, I'd be inclined to include all of the factions with 5+ votes in the next one. There's still time, though. If another faction or two ends up with 5 votes they'll make it in as well. :yes:

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

Well there are 15 choices. So half is 7 or 8.

6 choices have 5+ votes.

4 choices have 4 votes

5 choices have 3- votes

So, you can decide the cutoff is 5 votes which narrows it down to 6.

Or, the cutoff is 4 votes which leaves it at 10.

Or split up the ones that got 4 votes.

Or do something else. ^_^

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Figures another person would vote while I typed that. Ok, all factions that currently have 5+ votes are making the second poll.

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Originally Posted by Zim

Figures another person would vote while I typed that. Ok, all factions that currently have 5+ votes are making the second poll.

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Yeah more keep voting. Up to 19 people.

Currently, if 5 is the cutoff, that leaves 9 factions. Which is pretty much half.

My thoughts exactly. I'd rather have a bit over half make it than a bit under half, especially when a third final poll can always be done for the top contenders.

New poll is up and this one is closed. :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

Yeah more keep voting. Up to 19 people.

Currently, if 5 is the cutoff, that leaves 9 factions. Which is pretty much half.

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