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So since summer is here and I have a surplus of time/energy, I've decided to add a leg workout to my usual upper body workout.
Some advice would be nice on how to start. I've done some reading on the net, but I can't really come to a conclusion. Anything that works for you guys would be greatly appreciated shared.
Oh, one more thing, if it's possible to do this without squats, that would be great. I really don't like squats, but if I have to do them, so be it. Thanks!
Deadlift--make sure your form is right or you can hurt your back. One of the most basic and useful exercises in my opinion, picking stuff up off the floor is something you actually do. As a bonus it exercises your back and grip.
Lunges--take a big step forward or a big step back, then return to start.
It's important to work both your quads and your hamstrings, and to stretch. I got this knee pain for a while and I looked it up and it said my quads were tighter than my hamstrings, so I stretched them and did a bunch of hamstring exercises and it went away.
There are lots of different muscles in the legs so it can be very difficult to work them all.
Leg extensions, always good for the top thighs.
Leg press.
Wieghted lunges, your strength training here... Use dumbells in either hand, be careful and slow the more wieght you add the more your knees have to stabalize.
If you don't like lunges, box steps are a good replacement, wieghted also.
Calf raises, forward and reverse.
Deadlifts, of course...
Press jerks, get a little bit of your shoulders in there.
Hamstring pulls, try supersetting them with the leg extensions.
Not saying do them all, pick a few and do them. Always try to include wieghted lunges or box steps, those are amazing for your entire legs and glutes.
Alright, any order guys? I mean, could you give me a sample workout. Also, if possible, no deadlifts. I've tried and tried, to do both squats and deadlifts, because I've heard they very crucial for weightlifting, but I always F them up, hurt myself, or look like a jackass trying to attempt them.
If you dont do squats and deadlifts you may as well not work legs and back. All those machines put your legs in a fixed postion and provide no real tangible stregnth beinifits. ICE of you have to start with the bar than do that it will be worth it in the long run.
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/Te..._the_squat.htm
Here are some routines
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...Linear_5x5.htm
http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=314
http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=255
remember rest and calories are more important than training
Even if you don't like them, squats and lunges work all kinds of auxiliary muscles, these are very important. Start with low weight, and work your way up. Even low weight will start to burn faster than you would think. Almost like an aerobic workout. Use a self-spotting rack, or start with a Smith press bar for squats (but don't stay with it for long). Lunges with a bar or with dumbbells will do wonders.
I don't get a chance to do much lifting these days, but back in the day I used to rotate between quads and hammys during my leg workouts, with calf work in between. So a typical workout would be squats, calf raises, leg curls, leg extensions, calf raises, leg curls, leg press, calf raises, leg curls, lunges, followed by cursing every stairwell between the gym and my beer. Switch around the various calf raise exercises (seated, donkey, etc.) and leg curls (dual vs one leg, seated vs standing). Leg extensions are overrated, I think, and I'm not sure they are really good for the knee joint.
Alright strike, I still don't really understand how to squat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
I got the feet part down and where to place the bar, but beyond that I'm confused. do I simply lower my ass to floor and then raise back up, or what? The reading doesn't seem to help, nor do the videos. This is coming very hard to me.
Sit down on an imaginary stool and then stand up.
Well I think I pretty much have it. That helped. I'm finding if I swing my hips back and forth I can get into a ryhthm. I busted out my old weight lifting bar from high school and it seems to be working ok.
Next Project: Dead Lifts.
Deadlifts are similar. There's two styles, hands in between legs and hands outside legs. Hands in between legs is less awkward. Generally you'll have at least 45lb plates on which lifts the bar up to an easier height. You sit down like in a squat, grab the bar (make sure you are looking forwards) and kind of pull backwards as you stand up. Bar will usually scrape your shins. DON'T arch your lower back.
Do start slowly with deadlift, take it easy on the weights at first - as said, done badly it has consequences for the back. Do it slowly and smoothly, don't come up with a jolt at the end and make sure you only move on the legs. If necessary, focus on your abs while moving up and down with lighter weights to get the movement right.
What's that one called where you take a large step forward with dbs in both hands, then lower on the legs until the front on is at 90˚ and then up again?
Oh, may sound silly, but if you have got the correct technique for the rower (and a lot of people don't!) it's worthwhile to use that. Done properly it really uses the (upper) legs most of all, great not just for pure strength but also for endurance. Again, make sure the technique is right - a lot of people damage their back by doing it badly.
Dude, if you do deadlifts and squats, you don't need any other exercises. I pushed my deadlifting up to 120kg yesterday. Feeling good
Get Wiifit. ~:joker:
remember heavy compund movements burn more calories than cardio!
Are you working for strength or power? I usually do my shoulders traps and legs on the same day as my legs but here's one routine I use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice
Squats- 10, 8, 6, 4, 2.
Legpress- 10, 8, 6, 4, 2.
Military press- 8, 6, 4, 2, 1.
Upright rows- 8, 8, 6, 6.
Lunges- 10, 8, 8, 6.
Shrugs- 10, 8, 8, 6.
Deadlift- 10, 8, 6, 4, 2.
Bentlateral, forward, lateral raises/or cable lateral raises, standing flyes take your pick- 10, 8, 8, 6.
Every set should bring failure. If you can do 2 on the last set of military press, you need more weight. Remember technique is far more important then adding more weight. You will get more out of any routine with proper form and proper timing. As for deadlifts, get your technique down before adding a lot of weight. It should be smooth and no jerking, you can really mess up your lower back with these. Try to avoid scrapping your shins, with heavier weights you'll wake up the next day with purple shins.
Also if you do shoulder raises, remember to mix them up. There are a lot of muscles in your shoulders and each one will hit them differently.
I'm working to get in shape. Power/strength/whatever are secondary. I want to have a nice looking body.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTex
Of course you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice
Well for that I'd suggest a full body wax, a good bronzer and some baby blue colored contacts....:yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice
But are you trying to bulk or cut? For bulking low heavy reps, cuting go for the middle ground while power lifting, compound lifting everything you can.
Lmao. Eyes are greenish blue anyway, and the bronze/wax aren't my thing. I'm not a woman.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTex
I just want to look cut. Strength is nice, but it's not really my total goal.
I try to lift to 10 reps, with 7-10 being acceptable on letter sets.
There is so much wrong with this!!!!! Why are all your body part on one day? Training to failure doesnt work for hypertrophy or stregnth gains all it does is bust up your CNS and keep your muscles at the same size. This misinformation is killing meQuote:
Originally Posted by BigTex
All of your body parts? That covers your shoulders, traps, thighs, glutes and a weeee bit of your calves. Yes it covers portions of upper and lower body, but all of the body, hardly. Training to failure can be quite effective for strength gains, but recovery times are large and a must. I'm guessing you completely disagree with negatives, or even forced reps then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
Yes it's rather harsh, but I find it enjoyable. The blood sugar crash can be quick when compared to some other routines though.
you body does not gian size and stregnth with those kind of isolation movements. YOu should thinbk of your body in 3 types Legs Back Chest in that order. Forced reps are horrible. The whole premise is dumb. Your body does not adapt quicker it just burns out faster and you diminish hypertrophy and stregnth gains. Negatives have there place but we probably use them for different reasons. You could cut half those excersises out man here is what my routine is. You are not maximizing your potential man!!!!!!!!!
Chest
Bench press 5x5
Military Press 5x5
Lat Pulldowns 3x8
Skull crushers 3x8
Legs
Squats 5x5
SLDL 5x5
Leg Culrs 3x8
Back
Deadlift 5x5
BB Row 5x5
Shrug 3x8
Farmers walk 4 laps
Day 1 legs
Day 2 Chest
Day 3 off
Day 4 back
Day 5 off
Day 6 Chest
Day 7 legs
I may aslo use CGBP Lunges leg extensions and pull ups.
Couple Questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
1) How is does a lat pulldown work the chest? I though that was for the back?
2) Is it possible to do squats without a squatting rack? I'm going to try your workout and I can do most of this in basement, but I don't have a rack, just a bench.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
Yes the strength and hypertrophy are not as high as a synergistic approach but it is purpose built to maintain and increase flexibility. Bulk and strength gains are secondary to me if they come at the expense of my agility and flexibility.
It doesnt, your lats and chest are antaganistic to one another. It looks like SfTS is trying to hit a bit of his shoulders along with his chest. Personally go with chest and lats on the same day though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice
It's possible I guess, but not something I would advise without some type of a squatting rest. Keep the weight low and keep in mind even cast iron weights will break if you drop them to far, they bounce also....Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice
Used to do some light weighted jump squats at my place. Would press jerk it up and over and rest it on my back. Difficult but it is possible.
Or you can grab the bar behind your legs... I guess it becomes more of a deadlift then.
the lats are the most important stablazation muscle in the bench press. Stronger lats= A big bench.
Big Tex if you wanna get more flexible and agile you should stretch and do a program like crossfit not lift.
Lifting is there for the strength and power gains, and left over habits from growing up with body builders. I stretch to extremes and crossfit is unnessecary though I do use quite a bit of plyometrics and accuracy training. But like I said, strength and mass are irrelavent to me if they cost flexibility and agility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
Lats in general are a wonderfully useful muscle group. Not to mention look great when properly toned.
Also I'm curious, no bicep or forearm work SfTS?
rows work biceps well enough and anyhting that involves pulling works the forearms. The bicep is a useless muscle esp for powerlfting. Weight trainig will not make you more flexible. There is no such thing as tone
Cut, defined, built, shaped, chiseled take your pick in adjectives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
Depending on what your sport or what your goals are biceps can be quite important, if for nothing else look.
Properly mixing antagonistic muscle groups, namely using antagonistic supersets can and has been shown to prevent the major flexibility losses commonly associated with wieght training. Not to mention allowing you to focus more sets on specific muscles. Keep in mind while working any muscle group, you are streching the antagonist of that group. While working your triceps you are in turn stretching your biceps. Suppersetting bicep and tricep work allows constant stretching and allows both muscles to stay warm. I don't know of many serious bodybuilders or higher level athletes (not highschool) who do not take some form of this approach.
Now the only serious con of that approach is overtraining and staleness. But as long as you know the signs of them you can adjust your workout to avoid them. But with proper diet, sleep and nutrition you'll go a long way in avoiding those.
Do some research into the subject before completely blasting and flatout dismissing something. Flexibility while wieght training has been hugely researched.
Bodybuilders are not intrested in flexibilty nor stregnth there main conceren is hypertrophy. Not to mention pro bodybuilders have 2 distinct advantages over us. 1. Freaky gentices 2. Sweet sweet steroids. Any joe schmo can pick up a muscle and fitness get a routine from a bodybuilder and swear by it when in realtiy it is absloute crap becuase the guy has nowhere near the rescources or gentics to go with that program. But he goes into the gym doing 1000 sets and 100000000 reps thinking he has unlocked the secret. Triaining is the least important part of weight training. You want to know why so many people weight train yet so few are big or strong? Becuase they dont know dick. That pyrmaid routine you posted early is from the govener himself. ICE will not be able to program and gain muslce becuase he will overtrian and fry his CNS doing more harm than good. The MYTH you posted about losing flexibilty while weight training is utter crap. Stuff like that happens becuase people are dumb and once agian dont know dick not becuase there not utlizing pro and antagonist muscles. Its becuase they dont strecth and they load more weight than they can handle.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTex
I agree with BigTex.
Not even going to get into how wrong 2. can be, but the belief that all bodybuilders juice is a very uneducated myth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
The pyramid method of strength trianing has been around for quite awhile. Hiting your max each time allows for better gains then only going for 80%. Truly shocking the governator would pick up an effective method of weight trianing. Him along with Dave Draper, and hey and all of the trainers at the local gold's gym even used an atagonistic approach, I guess that diminishes their effectiveness too...
I'd still love to hear your reason why the bicep is a completely useless muscle. It is the antagonist of the tricep and since your routine seems to be focused around getting a higher bench then why in the world wouldnt you be concerned with its strength? A wonderful article on the use of the antogonist during a lift. Your tricep is only going to be able to exert as much force as your bicep can support. Just like your lats are supporting your chest. Also a stronger forearm leads to a better grip, which alone can improve your bench. It takes 5 minutes or less at the end of a routine to work at that. 3x15heavy behind wrist curls, and superset hammer wrist curls to forward wrist curls off the bench 3x12-20light. Aim for the max each time but don't be afraid to drop it if the burn goes to a slight pain.
You also don't isolate anything besides one movement on the skullcrushers. It's one thing to work groups but idealy you should try to isolate all of the muscles you work in a day at least once.
Frying your CNS usually comes from poor nutrition and not giving yourself enough recovery time. I never said for Ice to pick up one of my routines, I gave him an example. You should try to find your own routine, one that keeps you entertained and makes you want to go and lift. Not only that but keep it fresh, change things and move the order.
I swear, deja vu.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craterus
Calcium casienate + whey and some bcaa's, best sleep you'll ever get.
~Edit~
I don't know if I've mentioned this yet. But weight lifting is alot like sex, you have to try every postion, every routine, any pace, different lengths, more/less sets, new foreplay warmups whatever you want to call them. You have to find what works for you, what keeps you entertained, what gives you results, what gives you something to drive for. Do some research of your own. There's plenty of online resources or even go pick up a fitness magazine and while your at it, grab a psyological journal, find out what your body is actually doing.
It seems like even the most basic aspects of lifting are debatable. I've given up asking for advice on fitness forums as there always seems to be several very contrasting opinions.
I've had some success lifting to exhaustion on every set, but my diet and sleep situation are not optimal.
Wow, didn't notice this has evolved this much.
I don't agree with Big Tex about isolation exercises, but then my goal isn't hypertrophy but useful strength and power/weight ratio. I agree that training is only as useful as your body can take, and that food and rest are crucial.
I prefer compound exercises and lifts. Olympic clean and presses, deadlifts, benchpress, squats, pullups, upright rows, dips, one armed pushups and bulgarian loungesis what I do myself in different combinations during the week. I supplsment with burst sprinting, uphill medium distance running, rowing, and rock climbing.
Again, that works for me and my goals.
I'm 1.78m and 84 kg right now. I have about 5 kg to lose of winter fat, but that is down to my nutrition. Will be switching off some of the wintery sausages and moving on to more fruit. That should about do it.
All pro and allot of amature bodybuilders are on some type of enhacment people aernt made to look like that. Look at Frank Zane or Tom Metzger and then look at Coleman or Cutler. You want to know the one big diffrence? Roids. Im not even saying steroids are bad in fact for weight triaining they are the best supplment to have and for grown men really aernt all that dangroues. However Ice probably doesnt want to take them. So looking like one of them probably isnt an option. The pyriamd is not effective for hypertrophy (Once agian ICEs goal) Your goal of weight training should not be running your body into the ground so you need a week to recover.
As for foremams they got stronger with the farmers walk nothing builds stregnth like walking with 100lbs in each hand and they also get worked with any type of pull exercise you do. Trainig them alone is knid of useless at the novice state ICE is in he will save time and still get good results. ALl you need to do for biceps is rows and pull ups. The bicep does not stabilze the tricep during the bench press. The lats are utlized when the bar first touches your chest as this is past parallel for most people and the chest isnt pushing at this point its your lats.
Ice has never seroiuly weight lifted before he could do Squat Bench and Deadlift and still get stronger and look better if thats all he did. The compund movments are infintly better than iso excersises. they should be very tireing. For the record my goals are to move max weight with a secondary goal of hypertrophy deffintily not the same as yours and deffintly not the same as ICEsQuote:
I want to have a nice looking body
Compund movements with high weight and low reps (75% and up and 5 or less) will get ICE bigger and stronger than anything else and that is a fact. He would also burn more calories and imporve heart and lung health better than he would if he ran. thats the truth.