Hahaha, oh man the things that happen...

I love this game, there, I said it!

In my Massalian game, I adopted a Spartan general into my family. 17 years old, Sharp/Chara/Vigorous. He had a crap load of amazing traits including some I've never seen before. Excelled in Spartan Agoge, and some others that I don't remember the spelling to. I was ready to make him leader there and then but for role playing sakes, I didn't and through him into the Massalian schooling system for 4 years.

When he was done, he had acquired even more amazing traits. Not a single negative one. He even had the trait that said "Desired Heir". The people of Massalia WANTED him to become their next leader. Sweet!

So at 22, his military career started. He would follow my faction leader/main general in his campaigns till he was at least 30 before being able to lead his own troops. A few years later, while campaigning in Iberia, we laid siege to a Carthaginian town. (They kept threatening us "Pay 5000 or we will attack"). We greatly outnumbered our enemies 3:1. As soon as the battle begins, the Carthaginian Heavy Cavalry suicide charge straight into my Spartan hoplite ranks (Stupid), I only lose 5 Spartans in that entire battle.....and my beloved adopted Spartan general was one of them. Right off the bat, as soon as the battle begins he dies:wall:

What takes into account whether a general will die or not in a unit? I've had countless battles where I surround the enemy general with several spearmen units, and the enemy general would be the only one left in his unit, and still manage to escape through endless ranks of spearmen. Yet in this situation, the enemy cavalry ran head first into my Spartan spears, and ended up killing my general who was also protected by spearmen on his flank as well.

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Originally Posted by tapanojum

I love this game, there, I said it!

In my Massalian game, I adopted a Spartan general into my family. 17 years old, Sharp/Chara/Vigorous. He had a crap load of amazing traits including some I've never seen before. Excelled in Spartan Agoge, and some others that I don't remember the spelling to. I was ready to make him leader there and then but for role playing sakes, I didn't and through him into the Massalian schooling system for 4 years.

When he was done, he had acquired even more amazing traits. Not a single negative one. He even had the trait that said "Desired Heir". The people of Massalia WANTED him to become their next leader. Sweet!

So at 22, his military career started. He would follow my faction leader/main general in his campaigns till he was at least 30 before being able to lead his own troops. A few years later, while campaigning in Iberia, we laid siege to a Carthaginian town. (They kept threatening us "Pay 5000 or we will attack"). We greatly outnumbered our enemies 3:1. As soon as the battle begins, the Carthaginian Heavy Cavalry suicide charge straight into my Spartan hoplite ranks (Stupid), I only lose 5 Spartans in that entire battle.....and my beloved adopted Spartan general was one of them. Right off the bat, as soon as the battle begins he dies:wall:

What takes into account whether a general will die or not in a unit? I've had countless battles where I surround the enemy general with several spearmen units, and the enemy general would be the only one left in his unit, and still manage to escape through endless ranks of spearmen. Yet in this situation, the enemy cavalry ran head first into my Spartan spears, and ended up killing my general who was also protected by spearmen on his flank as well.

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That sucks. I take it since you're roleplaying your campaign, you're not going to reload? If so, kudos to you.:2thumbsup:

I charged the flanks of some pesky thureophoroi with my late Pontic Bodyguard! 1 casualty, my general...

Sometimes the general unit is slower-moving than the others, or he stands on the far left flank. Thus if you're caught on the move, or static in the right/wrong way, they go first.

Generals on foot seem to be more prone to being killed than cavalry generals, I probably lost more generals in battle in one Saba campaign than in all my Romani campaigns combined.

My KH generals either die with half their unit left, or they are some unkillable berserker who lasts until the end of the battle and survives with only one bodyguard. I think that the number of hitpoints makes a difference... If your guy had the "hardy" trait it might have saved him... That and infantry generals just have it rough...

On the same note, I used to enjoy the "insane" series of traits from Vanilla... I remember my first great general from back in the day (2004) who had "Military Genius" and "Insane" traits. As he fought wars they both became greater, until he had ten command stars and zero influence... it seemed fitting when he died outnumbered 4:1 and surrounded - ultimately it was a heroic victory. I still remember that character, since he was supposed to become my insane/brilliant Roman faction leader if he lived past 30.

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Originally Posted by socal_infidel

That sucks. I take it since you're roleplaying your campaign, you're not going to reload? If so, kudos to you.:2thumbsup:

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Nope, no reloading sadly! I lost my most promising general. All of my FM's decided their wives are not attractive at all. Everyone is past age 35 with not a single child. My faction is doomed with no heir! =(

Sad to hear that. During the start of my KH campaign, where mnai is very short, FM is the only options to defend Athens and the rest of the cities from the Maks attack. I lost 5 FM but win many heroic victories, and at last the Maks was driven back to one settlement in Asia Minor. The FM always die easily even with half of their bodyguards still fighting eagerly. While FM of heavy cataphract faction.....man they are immortals.

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Originally Posted by Jaertecken

I charged the flanks of some pesky thureophoroi with my late Pontic Bodyguard! 1 casualty, my general...

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that must have hurt! :wall:

and about cataphract generals.. indeed! I remember I played the historical battle of zela( not sure , where Caesar goes to defend roman lands from pontus), and after some time the battle was mine , so I decided to kill their general , so I sent around 50 leucepos against 10 cataphracts, after some time , the leucepos had killed everyone but the general and a Guard there were 22 leucepos left, so I continued the fight , then I suddendly saw that my cavalry was routing , so I'm like ....:inquisitive:, go back and checked , the general had managed to kill around 12-13 leucepos by himself! :surprised:

that time I thought he was invencible!

next time I played that battle I sent 2 infantry units to do the job:pleased:

haha i had similar experiences where it shows my general charging on cavalry and then falling OFF his horse before even hitting the enemy flanks..doh!

A fight as Pontus, this Seleukid general just wouldn't die. Sorrounded by 3 half healthy infantry units and 10 of my own general cavalry vs the single Seleukid general left. He managed to kill all of my bodygaurds so I decided to send my general back and just watch the battle. No point risking against desperate juice heads =]

god hated your general, end of story...let's move on:clown:

Just don't load it. Be strong man!

:inquisitive::inquisitive:

anyways, if you want the genral to be safe, do this: don't lead from the front. that way, you won't worry (none of my roman generals (with one exception), ever led from the front, and the one who did ended up branded as incautus: in fact, he has every possible trait to do with recklesness (still alive and well, though one battle almost ended his career: they even had the kill movie, only he escaped the death part and got away from 10 doru's lunging at him at once:skull:))

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Originally Posted by Ibrahim

:inquisitive::inquisitive:

anyways, if you want the genral to be safe, do this: don't lead from the front. that way, you won't worry (none of my roman generals (with one exception), ever led from the front, and the one who did ended up branded as incautus: in fact, he has every possible trait to do with recklesness (still alive and well, though one battle almost ended his career: they even had the kill movie, only he escaped the death part and got away from 10 doru's lunging at him at once:skull:))

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Haha yeah I learned my lesson, my general leads from behind the main lines, ready to plug a hole if needed.

Man he escaped the death movie? That's one tough SOB!

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Originally Posted by tapanojum

Haha yeah I learned my lesson, my general leads from behind the main lines, ready to plug a hole if needed.

Man he escaped the death movie? That's one tough SOB!

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I once did also encounter the escaped of the death movie, but it's the AI general. :wall:

Btw, all my saka generals leads the army in front lines. They really are the "Killing Machines".

I once lost my general to a rampaging elephant, he was a good general too the siege had been won easily and my skirmishers peppered elephants on a narrow street with the general just behind, then the elephants rampaged and the skirmishers ran out of javelins a single elephant headed for my general, tried to move the unit out of the way but the elephant went straight at him and launched him in the air... and that was that...:skull:

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Originally Posted by tapanojum

Nope, no reloading sadly! I lost my most promising general. All of my FM's decided their wives are not attractive at all. Everyone is past age 35 with not a single child. My faction is doomed with no heir! =(

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Still, keep a save game prior to losing him.

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Originally Posted by tapanojum

He even had the trait that said "Desired Heir". The people of Massalia WANTED him to become their next leader. Sweet!

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Ahem, a slight correction there. From the export_VnVs file:



{Spartan_Heir_Desired} Heir Desired

{Spartan_Heir_Desired_desc}
Despite living in an age and society where one's deeds serve as the primary determinent of power bestowed, this man's accomplishments and influence are so great that his people and fellow citizens clamor for a successor of his own blood to be promoted to a position of power also. He is much more likely to have one of his own children given a measure of command than other men of this place.

{Spartan_Heir_Desired_effects_desc}
\n

Don´t worry, I´ve seen lots of people fooled by that trait.

Well, in one of my Makedoni campaigns, I had Alkyoneus go Alexander in Anatolia with an uber-Pezhetairoi army. That is, until I attacked one Pontic city, don't remember which one exactly. So I was ready to crush the remaining soldiers in the city center, so I charged my heir (Alkyoneus) into a band of remaining Akontistai. He (Alkyoneus) prsonally led the charge and right before he charged into the enemy lines, one of the skirmishers slashed him with his tiny dagger and my poorfella flew from his horse like 5 meters away from the fray... Man I was so pissed... But that was a long time ago, back in the 0.81 series. Anyway, stuff like that happens.

Just as real life (back then) - I suppose;

The funniest thing happened to me while one of my FM had to defend Pergamon for the KH against Pontus.

I somewhat liked him, not because he had such great traits but was always reliable. So what happened right after battle began: This cutscene shows up directly on him and before I can realise what is going to happen he - only him - gets hit by those nasty huge javelins/ arrows coming right from one of those fortified siege towers, throwing him like 5-6 meters from the wall onto the city streets - dead!!

I didn't know wether to laugh because it looked so slapstick, or to cry becuse of the loss - well I did both somehow;)

In my recently aborted Mak campaign (unfortunate bug without save to fall back on) when the Epirotes attacked Pella I had around 10 soldiers left in the town square. Pyrrhos could almost taste the feast he was going to have after this great victory when my troops singled him out of his almost full bodyguard and slew him as their final act of defiance (maybe someone stunned him with a brick?). It was the most fulfilling loss I have ever had in this game, and I too love EB!!

In my Roman campaign my FM and his 22 bodyguards attacked a Lusotannan FM with no bodyguards. The Lusotannan FM killed them all!
Damn those 10 star generals!.:wall:

I suspect that officers (including the general) are the most experienced soldiers in a unit. They certainly rack up kills with their high lethality. So, if a unit has not seen battle, the general will have the same stats as every other soldier (apart from hitpoints and lethality), but after a couple of fights he will most likely be far more experienced than the average soldier.

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Originally Posted by johnhughthom

Generals on foot seem to be more prone to being killed than cavalry generals, I probably lost more generals in battle in one Saba campaign than in all my Romani campaigns combined.

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That's a specific problem with the Saba bodyguard: because it has no additional officers the general is the first during the charge and most likely surrounded by enemies everytime he engages. In my Sweboz and Casse (have changed their bodyguard to foot) campaigns the FMs make the bulk of my early army and I hardly lose any of them.

It wouldn't have helped that poor Spartan fellow, but one trick I sometimes use to keep generals safe is to hit the rally horn as the bodyguard begins the charge. The general rears up his horse as he blows his horn, so he'll be somewhat behind the rear rank of the unit when they hit the enemy. As long as you're doing the standard charge-retreat-charge routine, the general will be in no danger at all. This is usually only worth the bother if the bodyguard has to tangle with a quality spear unit, though.

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Originally Posted by Jaertecken

I charged the flanks of some pesky thureophoroi with my late Pontic Bodyguard! 1 casualty, my general...

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I had a curiously similar situation in my Roman (Scipii) vanilla campaign (My FM's in EB are pretty much invincible), where in my RP, my Emperor (aka Faction Leader with Rome under my control already), in the very first battle after the beginning of the civil war (Full Brutii stack against a somewhat smaller army of mine), on the outskirts of Larissa, it happened that when the battle was running in my favour, and I decide to charge with my uber-leet Post-Marian Roman Armored General Unit (Of 40 soldiers or so), flanking an Hastati/Principes, at the moment of impact, I'm not really sure what happened (The camara changed to the "General being killed" view), it showed up front my General's horse apparently tripping on itself and falling, while the rest of the bodyguards charged and routed the enemy unit. The battle continued a short while after that and in the aftermath, the only casualty of the Bodyguards had been the General (The Emperor) himself. >_> That was rather odd, since the General hadn't even reached the enemy yet (And it was the bloody Roman Post-Marian Armored General! Those guys mustn't/shouldn't/don't die!)

Haha, so lots of people had similar experiences.

The worst is when a general dies before he even reaches the enemy. Thats hilarious seeing a general fall of his horse with no enemies in sight whatsoever! Woops!

Haha, that reminds me of a bridge-battle I played some months ago, Romans VS Germans and I had taken up the defensive position. As the enemy FM and commander started to run across the bridge, he also charged over the bridge with two units of heavy germanic cavalry at the same time. Now, running heavy cavalry through your own infantry can sometimes throw infantry into the air (not killing them), but any unit who "falls" on a bridge, falls in the water and dies. This is what happened to the enemy FM. The heavy cavalry got so demoralized by killing their own general, and after taking a few casualties they routed and created the subsequent massrout usually seen in defensive bridge battles.

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Originally Posted by Jaertecken

Haha, that reminds me of a bridge-battle I played some months ago, Romans VS Germans and I had taken up the defensive position. As the enemy FM and commander started to run across the bridge, he also charged over the bridge with two units of heavy germanic cavalry at the same time. Now, running heavy cavalry through your own infantry can sometimes throw infantry into the air (not killing them), but any unit who "falls" on a bridge, falls in the water and dies. This is what happened to the enemy FM. The heavy cavalry got so demoralized by killing their own general, and after taking a few casualties they routed and created the subsequent massrout usually seen in defensive bridge battles.

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This must of been the easiest battle fought..LMAO!

Thats why Roman generals rule, they stay behind the main battle line, directing troops and only strike at the right moment and right time. But I too had some promising FM that died tragically as yours. One after a battle against the Aediu in Gallia Cisalpina, the legions routed the gallic host. So the Eqiutes Consulares and my other cavalry units charged after them slaughtering as they flee. But one gaul managed to strike deep at my Military Tribune, and killed him. Thats war.

Cheers.

Somewhat similar thing happened to me when I was playing Baktria campaign. After a hard battle for one of the indian city I managed to kill majority of defenders and rout all the elephants. My general was following the routed elephant unit, killing them one by one, when the tragedy happened. A dying elephant fell and squashed my general and couple of his bodyguards.
I felt it was quite an appropriate ending for this general - to crash numerous rebels, conquer half of india, and make Baktria one of the most powerful states, only to be killed by falling elephant.
But since then I do not persue elephants with my general units.

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Originally Posted by Zing

Somewhat similar thing happened to me when I was playing Baktria campaign. After a hard battle for one of the indian city I managed to kill majority of defenders and rout all the elephants. My general was following the routed elephant unit, killing them one by one, when the tragedy happened. A dying elephant fell and squashed my general and couple of his bodyguards.
I felt it was quite an appropriate ending for this general - to crash numerous rebels, conquer half of india, and make Baktria one of the most powerful states, only to be killed by falling elephant.
But since then I do not persue elephants with my general units.

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It could of been worse. Remember on the news the man who died when an Elephant backed up into him, and he suffocated with his head up an Elephant Arse? :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by tapanojum

It could of been worse. Remember on the news the man who died when an Elephant backed up into him, and he suffocated with his head up an Elephant Arse? :laugh4:

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I had watch that video, the man didn't die, well almost. May be we are not talking about the same case.

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Originally Posted by chenkai11

I had watch that video, the man didn't die, well almost. May be we are not talking about the same case.

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I guess it's not such an uncommon thing!

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Originally Posted by Zing

Somewhat similar thing happened to me when I was playing Baktria campaign. After a hard battle for one of the indian city I managed to kill majority of defenders and rout all the elephants. My general was following the routed elephant unit, killing them one by one, when the tragedy happened. A dying elephant fell and squashed my general and couple of his bodyguards.
I felt it was quite an appropriate ending for this general - to crash numerous rebels, conquer half of india, and make Baktria one of the most powerful states, only to be killed by falling elephant.
But since then I do not persue elephants with my general units.

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something like that happened in my very first campaign of vanilla RTW , I was a complete newbie, so of course... I had a full stack consisting of only Praetorian guards and 2 legionary cavalry units :smash: I felt so powerful with that army , so I sent my 10 star, 7 management 10 influence, "the mighty", 33 years old faction leader to lead that powerful army against the dreaded enemies of the republic... carthage..., but I was not expecting the elephants , there were 2 elephant units in the city , and I only had praetorians... so I suffered way too many losses:wall:

the only thing that actually was capable of killing the elephans were the cavalry units, but they had routed already , so I only had my great general , so I took the chance and sent him agaisnt the remaining elephants...

they eventually killed them all without too many losses, BUT... then , my FL killed the LAST elephant... and its corpse fell right over, killing him...:shifty:, then I almost lost that battle when my praetorians started to rout at the surviving 2 elephants in the main square :shifty:

Elephant shield wall that collapse on the front ranks of an army..now that would be killer!