Science teacher preaching creationism and branding crosses on students' arms

Good Lord...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...rnational/home

I'm a little disappointed that the article was so sketchy on details, as I have a feeling that there is much more here than meets the eye. For example, I find it interesting that one of the complaints about the teacher is not that he branded his students, but that he branded crosses on them. I would think that and branding of a student by a teacher would be enough grounds for immediate dismissal and filing of criminal charges against the teacher in question. Neither of those things have taken place.

What are we not being told here?

Sounds like a work for the local health authorities....this person is obviously mentally unbalanced and should be given help.

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Originally Posted by Ronin

Sounds like a work for the local health authorities....this person is obviously mentally unbalanced and should be given help.

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So Joel Olsteen has been declared a mental disorder? :laugh4:

Well teaching mumbo-jumbo(this time creationism, arguably the lamest theory ever conceived) is more than enough to fire him immediately.

Branding the students is more than enough for an arrest, of course assuming that it was done involuntary.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Branding the students is more than enough for an arrest, of course assuming that it was done involuntary.

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As a parent, I can tell you that I wouldn't care if the branding was voluntary or not. If the kids were down on their knees, begging him to sear their flesh with a hot iron, that would mean nothing. You don't go mutilating other peoples' kids, no matter what the circumstances.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Well teaching mumbo-jumbo(this time creationism, arguably the lamest theory ever conceived) is more than enough to fire him immediately.

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You cannot disprove that God created the Earth/Universe.

At any rate, the science teacher was out of line.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

You cannot disprove that God created the Earth/Universe.

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....And neither can you prove it ~;)

Anyway, my lack of respect for creationism comes as much from how it originated and the motives of those pushing it as to the theory itself.

@Lemur: Yes, I meant with the parents approval... He has supporters in that town, they might have wanted to get crosses burned on their kids arms...

Of course, that's starting to sound like a job for child-services...

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

You cannot disprove that God created the Earth/Universe.

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But it does prove the teacher is an idiot.

If this isn't a hoax. I mean, branding students - is that an American thing? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

You cannot disprove that God created the Earth/Universe.

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You cannot disprove that I created the Earth/Universe. Why shouldn't we be teaching Goofballism in science classes?

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

....And neither can you prove it ~;)

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No, you cannot. It's a belief, plain and simple.

Based on the article I have a feeling that the "branding" is being blown out of proportion by those that want him fired.

edit: or maybe not..., After looking at the picture that does indeed look like small burns.

The teacher was out of line.... the article says the brandings were done in december and there were complaints...if so the school authorities were also not doing their job.

If my kid came home with a “brand” and it was anything other than those wicked cool dragons David Carradine had on his forearms in the TV show Kung-Fu I would not be a happy parent.

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Originally Posted by Goofball

You cannot disprove that I created the Earth/Universe. Why shouldn't we be teaching Goofballism in science classes?

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I don't find it very likely that you created the universe; but however, since Mars is such a red planet, it was obviously created by communists.

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Originally Posted by Viking

since Mars is such a red planet, it was obviously created by communists.

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:stare:

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Originally Posted by Viking

I don't find it very likely that you created the universe; but however, since Mars is such a red planet, it was obviously created by communists.

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If you believe I am anything even remotely close to a communist, you really have no idea what you are talking about...

And at any rate, if I say "I am the Lord Goofball. I have been around since the beginning of time, and it was I who created the Universe," as far as being able to offer any proof goes, my statement is just as plausable as anything the Bible has to say about creation.

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Originally Posted by Goofball

If you believe I am anything even remotely close to a communist, you really have no idea what you are talking about...

And at any rate, if I say "I am the Lord Goofball. I have been around since the beginning of time, and it was I who created the Universe," as far as being able to offer any proof goes, my statement is just as plausable as anything the Bible has to say about creation.

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Well I just thought my example was a bit more like ID; I was by no means referring to you as a communist. ~D

I do agree with your second statement, Lord Goofball.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

No, you cannot. It's a belief, plain and simple.

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And the proper place for belief is in church, not in school. In school we teach science.

At least they didn't have to bow down to Allah.

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Originally Posted by Goofball

If you believe I am anything even remotely close to a communist, you really have no idea what you are talking about...

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Sure you are goofie, you're to the left of Bush and his croonies aren't you? That makes you a bleedin' commie childkilling terrorist, you know...

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Originally Posted by Viking

Well I just thought my example was a bit more like ID; I was by no means referring to you as a communist. ~D

I do agree with your second statement, Lord Goofball.

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Good Lord man! Don't refer to me that way! I was only joking! If the Flying Spaghetti Monster hears you, he might think I'm really serious and smite me with a noodly appendage!

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

And the proper place for belief is in church, not in school. In school we teach science.

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Unless the school in question is a private or faith-based school, than yes, I agree.

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Originally Posted by Goofball

Good Lord man! Don't refer to me that way! I was only joking! If the Flying Spaghetti Monster hears you, he might think I'm really serious and smite me with a noodly appendage!

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If FSM wants to hurt the master, FSM must die. :whip:

https://img185.imageshack.us/img185/...asbriancz6.jpg

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Originally Posted by The Goofball

I would think that and branding of a student by a teacher would be enough grounds for immediate dismissal and filing of criminal charges against the teacher in question. Neither of those things have taken place.

What are we not being told here?

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Originally Posted by The Article

John Freshwater, 52, was fired last month after an outside consulting firm released a report concluding that he taught creationism and was insubordinate in failing to remove a Bible and other religious materials from his classroom at Mount Vernon Middle School.

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:inquisitive:

Needless to say, this is ridiculous. Teacher's unions should be struck down and sundered apart for the good of the children.

CR

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

:inquisitive:

Needless to say, this is ridiculous. Teacher's unions should be struck down and sundered apart for the good of the children.

CR

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Never mind that they are in fact fighting for higher wages for the teachers, thus providing the incentives to teach that the Right-wing are so keen on lobbying for. Further, it would be an obvious breach of freedom of assembly.

They fight for what is good for them, not what is good for children. That is why it takes years in some areas with strong unions to fire bad teachers; in NYC some schools station teachers in a building away from kids and have them do nothing all day, because the administrators don't want them near children. Those poor teachers eat up money that could be used for better teachers and resources for the children.

Making it easier to fire people also makes it easier to hire them; you don't have to worry about how you're going to fire a teacher if they turn out to be horrible.

And unions fight for higher wages based on seniority, not merit. So good young teachers can't be rewarded properly.

CR

Darn CR, don't know how I missed that bit about the fact that he was already fired. I think I read the bit about him likely being suspended without pay and that's what stuck in my head. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

:magnify:

At any rate, I think there's still a lot more happening here than we are being told. I still can't figure out why no criminal charges have been laid in this matter.

I wonder why in this topic there is no ..OMG its the Christians I tell ya , its that Christanity thing...going on ?
Now if it had been a Koran in the classroom and he had branded a crescent on the kids this topic would be on the fourth page of shite by now .:thumbsdown:

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

They fight for what is good for them, not what is good for children. That is why it takes years in some areas with strong unions to fire bad teachers; in NYC some schools station teachers in a building away from kids and have them do nothing all day, because the administrators don't want them near children. Those poor teachers eat up money that could be used for better teachers and resources for the children.

Making it easier to fire people also makes it easier to hire them; you don't have to worry about how you're going to fire a teacher if they turn out to be horrible.

And unions fight for higher wages based on seniority, not merit. So good young teachers can't be rewarded properly.

CR

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Uh huh.

I'd also agree teaching creationism in school is a bunch of bs. Evolution is based on science, while creationism is based on religion (mythology if I dare say). Science belongs in school, while religion belongs in it's appropriate place. Teaching creationism as part of a history class on Christianity (like I had last semester), or as mythology wouldn't be bad.

Evolution is not based on science at all. It's based on wild speculations & fabrications in the minds of men, and faith-based opinions in the correctness of those wild speculations and fabrications. Evolution is every bit as much of religion as Creationism is.

A simple and irrefutable way to demonstrate this is that evolution does not meet the requirements of the scientific method, therefore it's not science.

Teaching Creationism should be perfectly legal, or teaching evolution should be every bit as illegal.

The branding thing would be wrong if it's true. But the way evolution is 'branded' into and thereby acts as a corrupting force in innocent students' minds, and presented as fact when it's actually merely opinion, is just as wrong.

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Originally Posted by Navaros

Evolution is not based on science at all. It's based on wild speculations & fabrications in the minds of men, and faith-based opinions in the correctness of those wild speculations and fabrications. Evolution is every bit as much of religion as Creationism is.

A simple and irrefutable way to demonstrate this is that evolution does not meet the requirements of the scientific method, therefore it's not science.

Teaching Creationism should be perfectly legal, or teaching evolution should be every bit as illegal.

The branding thing would be wrong if it's true. But the way evolution is 'branded' into and thereby acts as a corrupting force in innocent students' minds, and presented as fact when it's actually merely opinion, is just as wrong.

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:laugh4:

Call me crazy, but I'm guessing this story is being blown way out of proportion by our sensationalist media. ~:handball:

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Originally Posted by Navaros

Evolution is not based on science at all. It's based on wild speculations & fabrications in the minds of men, and faith-based opinions in the correctness of those wild speculations and fabrications. Evolution is every bit as much of religion as Creationism is.

A simple and irrefutable way to demonstrate this is that evolution does not meet the requirements of the scientific method, therefore it's not science.

Teaching Creationism should be perfectly legal, or teaching evolution should be every bit as illegal.

The branding thing would be wrong if it's true. But the way evolution is 'branded' into and thereby acts as a corrupting force in innocent students' minds, and presented as fact when it's actually merely opinion, is just as wrong.

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Thanks Navaros you just made my day :laugh4:

THIS is apparently the device used to "brand" the 8th grade science students.

Not a good idea. If my kid came home with a scar administered by a teacher, there would be immediate and substantial hell to pay.

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

THIS is apparently the device used to "brand" the 8th grade science students.

Not a good idea. If my kid came home with a scar administered by a teacher, there would be immediate and substantial hell to pay.

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I just cant understand how parents did not make it a big issue if the branding was done in december as reported in the article. :no:

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I just cant understand how parents did not make it a big issue if the branding was done in december as reported in the article.

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If you follow the articles back from that link you will find that the parents launched their complaint way back in december , on the morning after the "branding" incident happened .

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

THIS is apparently the device used to "brand" the 8th grade science students.

Not a good idea. If my kid came home with a scar administered by a teacher, there would be immediate and substantial hell to pay.

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Riiight.. And they let the guy 'teach' on after December as if nothing had happened? :juggle2:

This is freekin' scary (from the link Kukri posted):

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A team led by Michael Berkman recently polled 2,000 high school science teachers across the nation. Sixteen percent of them — about one in every six teachers — identified themselves as creationists. Moreover:
…a quarter of the teachers also reported spending at least some time teaching about creationism or intelligent design. Of these, 48 percent — about 12.5 percent of the total survey — said they taught it as a “valid, scientific alternative to Darwinian explanations for the origin of species”.
There are a lot of John Freshwater’s out there. And, intentionally or not, they are doing their best to undermine the nation’s science education.

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Man, am I ever glad that I, and, more important, my children, don't live in Jesusland.

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Originally Posted by Goofball

This is freekin' scary (from the link Kukri posted):



Man, am I ever glad that I, and, more important, my children, don't live in Jesusland.

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Yeah god forbid someone telling them god created the earth and humanity! This might permanently damage your children!

~:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Kush

Yeah god forbid someone telling them god created the earth and humanity! This might permanently damage your children!

~:rolleyes:

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Yes, it would. If it was a science teacher telling them that and telling them that Creationism is grounded by scientific fact.

Quite a transparent strawman you tried to set up there. But you'll have to to a bit better in here, my friend.

PM me before you try your next one, and I'll let you know if it has a prayer of succeeding.

:beam:

Creationism has every bit as much scientific fact behind it as Darwinism does.

The only scary part about those numbers is that the numbers that teach Creationism are way too low.

It is scary how children are generally brainwashed to believe in Darwinism, though.

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Originally Posted by Navaros

Creationism has every bit as much scientific fact behind it as Darwinism does.

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You know, I've heard quite a few Christians say that before, and invariably when I ask, "Really? Please tell me about some of that proof," their answer always is one variation or another of "..........."

But don't worry, I'm sure Jesus does in fact love you.

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Originally Posted by Navaros

Creationism has every bit as much scientific fact behind it as Darwinism does.

The only scary part about those numbers is that the numbers that teach Creationism are way too low.

It is scary how children are generally brainwashed to believe in Darwinism, though.

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We have had this discussion before, all one has to do is look how man has manipulated animals by selective breeding to bring about certain traits. Nature does this by the strong survive the weak die out.

Evolution is a proven theory by the very nature of selective breeding. Now I dont have a problem with creationism being taught as a theory in school, but I do have a problem with it being taught in a class concerning say biology - which is where evolution is normally taught in school.

So if they want to teach creationism - let it be in a religious studies class, if they want to teach science and its theories - let them teach that in science class.

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Originally Posted by Goofy

Man, am I ever glad that I, and, more important, my children, don't live in Jesusland

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Sorry to burst your poor little anti-religion bubble there goofy, but 16% teaching creationism doesn't equate to Jesusland either. So a poor pathic attempt at slaming the United States. Its much easier to do it on things we truely do badly, but this isn't one of them.

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Originally Posted by Redleg

Sorry to burst your poor little anti-religion bubble there goofy, but 16% teaching creationism doesn't equate to Jesusland either. So a poor pathic attempt at slaming the United States. Its much easier to do it on things we truely do badly, but this isn't one of them.

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I would sumbit that 16% of science teachers (science teachers, for Chrissake!) teaching creationism in American schools is a huge and disturbing number. It indicates that religious dogma has infiltrated the American population to such an extent that it truly is starting to shape many aspects of American life. Don't believe me? When was the last time you guys elected a president who didn't make a big show of what a good friend of Jesus he was?

But I thank you for saying I am anti-religion rather than anti-Christian. I am an equal opportunity anti-religionist. Many in here haven't figured that out yet.

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Originally Posted by Goofball

It indicates that religious dogma has infiltrated the American population to such an extent that it truly is starting to shape many aspects of American life

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That's where you continue to miss the point. The US has a long history of religion in the public life. It used to be much more prominent- I can still find old public school buildings that were built with bible passages engraved into their walls. If someone tried to do that while building a new school today it would be a nationwide scandal. If anything, religion is far less important in public life than it has been in the past.

It's certainly not the nefarious influence "infiltrating" it's way into American culture that you make it out to be. :no:

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

That's where you continue to miss the point. The US has a long history of religion in the public life. It used to be much more prominent- I can still find old public school buildings that were built with bible passages engraved into their walls. If someone tried to do that while building a new school today it would be a nationwide scandal. If anything, religion is far less important in public life than it has been in the past.

It's certainly not the nefarious influence "infiltrating" it's way into American culture that you make it out to be. :no:

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I realize that the U.S. has a long history of religion in public life. And I acknowledge that the influence of religion on your society is certainly less than it was in, say, 1700.

But the influence of the evangelicals and their efforts to insert their dogma into your political and educational systems have been experiencing a resurgence of both strength and support of late.

And it certainly is nefarious.

A science teacher secretly (implying he knows damn well he shouldn't be doing it) teaching creation in a public school science class?

Yep. Nefarious.

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Originally Posted by Goofball

I would sumbit that 16% of science teachers (science teachers, for Chrissake!) teaching creationism in American schools is a huge and disturbing number. It indicates that religious dogma has infiltrated the American population to such an extent that it truly is starting to shape many aspects of American life. Don't believe me? When was the last time you guys elected a president who didn't make a big show of what a good friend of Jesus he was?

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Oh I find some of the things taught in school far more distrubing then this bit, for instance lots of factual history is skipped over for political reasons. But what I find most distrubing is the attempts to teach that the government can fix all of your personal issues.. They indicates that leftist dogma has infiltrated the american population to such an extent that its truly starting to shape many aspects of American Life. (I know plagerism).....

Oh Clinton comes to mind, so does Ronald Reagan. They both demonstrated that they believed in God, but not to the point of making a big show of it. I find your anti-religionist stance more of an over-reaction then anything else.

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But I thank you for saying I am anti-religion rather than anti-Christian. I am an equal opportunity anti-religionist. Many in here haven't figured that out yet.

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No problem - religion is often misused by politicians, teachers, and many others. 16% of science teachers in high school teaching creationism doesn't overly concern me. Now if it was done at the University level by acredited professors and individuals with Science Doctoricts(SP) I would be more concerned. High School and below teach the political mumble jumble of facts that I find amusing and sad at the same time. Its a good thing I tell my son to read history books outside of the classroom to get more details about the events ---- to determine what his own opinion is.

Just like I tell him concerning Creationism and Evolutionism - pointing out the facts that Darwin used to determine Natural Selection comes from the selective breeding programs that man has used for several thousand years.

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Originally Posted by Redleg

No problem - religion is often misused by politicians, teachers, and many others. 16% of science teachers in high school teaching creationism doesn't overly concern me. Now if it was done at the University level by acredited professors and individuals with Science Doctoricts(SP) I would be more concerned. High School and below teach the political mumble jumble of facts that I find amusing and sad at the same time. Its a good thing I tell my son to read history books outside of the classroom to get more details about the events ---- to determine what his own opinion is.

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And it was quite a shock to find out how outdated the organic chemistry taught at school really was after reading some textbooks of a flatmate. I do wonder how much of the miseducation is caused may intent, and how much by true ignorance and oldfashioned frames of mind.