You are safer without a knife

http://www.insight-security.com/fact...rime-stats.htm

So, criminologists believe that if you do not carry a knife, then you are less likely to be stabbed? Mr. Brown was on the BBC talk show "The One Show" saying exactly the same thing.

Is it just me or is this logic slightly flawed? Forget my comments in recent threads, because my inner ned/chav is telling me that this makes no sense. Obviously the majority of people that get stabbed come from areas where crime is a big problem, and so they are for more likely to get stabbed. If someone pulls a knife out on you, surely it would be sensible to have one on you just in case? Presuming you are a sensible person, you will only use it if you have to.

How such idiotic comments are going to reduce knife crime is beyond me. The only people who listen to such comments are likely to be the more law-abiding youths who carry knifes solely for the purpose of self defense.

But I am always told I am a ned so maybe I am biased. Can someone back me up on this?

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Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

If someone pulls a knife out on you, surely it would be sensible to have one on you just in case?

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No, the sensible thing is to run.

That's the point of this, when you're carrying a knife on you, you're less likely to run away from danger, and instead seek it.

These gangs tend to operate in groups, and when there's six of them to one of you then its unlikely you are the fastest.

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How such idiotic comments are going to reduce knife crime is beyond me. The only people who listen to such comments are likely to be the more law-abiding youths who carry knifes solely for the purpose of self defense.

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How such idiotic comments ignore that youths who carry knives for self defense are not law-abiding .

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So, criminologists believe that if you do not carry a knife, then you are less likely to be stabbed?

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Thats because the average dickhead who pulls a knife will end up with one or several glasses in the face (remember kids always give a nice friendly twist to the glass once it impacts on the idiot that thought his knife might save him from a beating) , its amazing how producing a blade can escalate a bad situation into a terrible one isn't it .

I wouldn't carry a knife unless I knew how to use it in combat. And I live in an area where there's fairly little crime, so I don't feel the need to go armed in any manner.

Actually I almost always carry a knife in the form of a multitool, guess I'm used to it from trekking. Strange world that a man can no longer carry the tool of tools.

If you are a reasonable person without a temper then you would obviously not use the knife unless you were about to get one in your face anyway.

I don't know. People in Poland generally do not carry on knives.

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Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

These gangs tend to operate in groups, and when there's six of them to one of you then its unlikely you are the fastest.

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Will a knife really save your life in such a situation?

Depends on how many chevrons you have and what your stats are :tongue2:

That aside, if everyone didn't carry a knife, then yes, people would be safer - because when you get angry at someone you can't pull out a knife at them.

Of course there's other non conventional weapons as well, but that's beside the point right? :angel:

Well, the problem is that if one nutcase carries a knife, whether its to aid him in crime or just to look cool, everyone else in in danger.

And unless you have some Chuck Norris style roundhouse kicks up your sleeve, then the person with the knife will have a big advantage when it comes to attacking you.

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Depends on how many chevrons you have and what your stats are :tongue2:

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And don't forget your animations of course. Two handed weapons are only useful against mounted opponents (ie on a bicycle).

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

No, the sensible thing is to run.

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Why is running the sensible thing?

Is it always the sensible thing to run? In any threatening situation?

Plus, I think you are all forgetting something...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsQFYceNZS8

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You run faster with a knife!!11

It's the same old song and dance. The same statistic applies to people who carry a firearm.

The numbers are skewed heavily by the people who carry knives and illegal firearms for the purpose of engaging in criminal activities. Petty criminals, gang members, mobsters, etc. are obviously at greater risk of being wounded or killed than the rest of us, as are those unarmed citizens that they prey upon.

A far more useful statistic would be for people who have no criminal records (as well as those who have never been arrested or arrested & not convicted) who resorted to the use of firearms or knives to defend themselves against thieves, rapists & the like.

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Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

And don't forget your animations of course. Two handed weapons are only useful against mounted opponents (ie on a bicycle).

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This is actually a very good point that you and Fractionhair made, and why just about everyone so far is wrong.

Everyone knows you run faster with the knife.

:creep::whip:

:balloon2:

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Actually I almost always carry a knife in the form of a multitool, guess I'm used to it from trekking. Strange world that a man can no longer carry the tool of tools.

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It is perfectly legal to carry a knife as a tool .

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And unless you have some Chuck Norris style roundhouse kicks up your sleeve, then the person with the knife will have a big advantage when it comes to attacking you.

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No offence* Caledonian but on this subject experience wise have you any idea what you are talking about ?(*no offence because getting through life without too many dodgy events and having to do nasty things to people isn't a bad thing at all)

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

No offence* Caledonian but on this subject experience wise have you any idea what you are talking about ?(*no offence because getting through life without too many dodgy events and having to do nasty things to people isn't a bad thing at all)

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OK, I'll take the bait. What point are you driving at here Tribes?

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Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

These gangs tend to operate in groups, and when there's six of them to one of you then its unlikely you are the fastest.

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If they outnumber you six to one it's madness to stand and fight anyway. Your best bet is still running.

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

Why is running the sensible thing?

Is it always the sensible thing to run? In any threatening situation?

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Running sounds sensible in theory (provided you're fast enough... and lucky enough to get away). However running before an aggressor has the unfortunate side effect of triggering that primal bloodlust that we semi-hairless primates have employed since our earliest historical accounts. The history of warfare (particularly in the pre-gunpowder era) is littered with countless accounts of battles turning into bloodbaths because one side routed and the other gave chase and cut down those attempting to flee. In many battles more lives were lost during routs than when one side retreated sensibly or attempted to surrender.

There is something about the extreme decision to fight to the bitter end or take flight that leads to truly bloody ends. If some low IQ, aggressive criminal type is intent on doing you harm then triggering or amplifying their predatorial instincts by turning tail probably isn't a good idea.

I don’t know, recently there has been lots of police activities in my school (I live in London), you got people giving lectures about not carry to knifes, showing us nasty pictures about what knifes can do and threatening us with 6 years in prison (max.) if caught with a knife, no matter what reason. On average a person get killed (stabbed, mostly teenagers) every 2 weeks in London. Of course the law abiding people don’t carry knifes, but I don’t see the point if everybody was to carry a knife for self-defence, surely the death-rate would be much higher that way. Anyway I don’t think carrying a knife makes you any safer than not carrying one, the only thing I see is that you’d be dead, but at least you would have taken some of them with you.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

No, the sensible thing is to run.

That's the point of this, when you're carrying a knife on you, you're less likely to run away from danger, and instead seek it.

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I totally agree with you on this one.

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Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

These gangs tend to operate in groups, and when there's six of them to one of you then its unlikely you are the fastest.

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So you’re saying that you stand more of a chance in that situation with a knife rather than a pair of fast legs.

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

Why is running the sensible thing?

Is it always the sensible thing to run? In any threatening situation?

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I don't know about running but FWIW back in the day my karate sensei was always very clear that the best thing to do if it looks like its kicking off is to leave if you can.

And that was from someone who didn't need a knife to kick yo ass.

That's about all the karate I remember now, but I still think its sound advice.

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

Why is running the sensible thing?

Is it always the sensible thing to run? In any threatening situation?

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I’d run if they got knifes, but it wouldn’t be wise to run if they got nothing, even if there’re six of them. The worst you get is a beating, but if you stand your ground then they probably wouldn’t give you much trouble in the future. But it’s much more different with a knife, run and you get stabbed, stay and you get stabbed too. The only other option is you stay and give them what they want, which is really the worst option of all of them.

Backing off slowly, showing that you're not going to be easy pickings if push does come to shove, seems to me the most productive. In that situation a knife, or anything solid at hand would be helpful. Running or fighting - well, unless someone's entirely confident in the ability to do either, is a bit of a gamble.

Course, the more dangerous muggers don't like to let it come to that. I'd guess they prefer the first the victim knows of them to be when they initiate physical contact. And if they're in a group and you're alone, pretty much in trouble anyway.

I do have a little experience, and it tells me that you do not run from neds. I've never had a situation where I've been in a (gang v gang) fight or a M2TW style chain rout, but from my little experience what tends to happen is a mutual backing off. Neds don't like to act if the odds aren't 4:1 in their favour (thats "Victory is a distinct possibility" for them to the rest of us here).

Seriously, neds are 90% talk. I'm no tough guy, but I've watched too many ancient-era war movies and I tend to get fatalistic and think that weak as I am I may as well take as many out with me as possible. But its never come to that, thankfully.

Never, ever run from neds (I am talking about chavs here for the rest of Britain, not sure for equivalents around the world). They act like packs of dogs, one goes hounding after you and the rest will follow. Its never happened to me thanks to a pretty sheltered upbringing, but I have heard this from my friends. And middle-class as I am, living in the area I do you will at some point run into trouble.

Ultimately, for some reason I've always been far more terrified of getting into trouble with the authorities (whether they be a teacher, the police, or whatever) than actually having a scrap. Maybe such discipline has served me well, because on the occassions that could have left to trouble I've (with my friends) held the ground without getting aggresive and its basically led to both sides backing off, the neds hurling insults as if they won obviously.

And then it always leads to stupid jokes because my private school friends think I am a ned.

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

Why is running the sensible thing?

Is it always the sensible thing to run? In any threatening situation?

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If somebody has a knife (even if you have one too) the sensible thing is to run.

When we did this training in the army, the first thing the knife instructor said was something along these lines: "Here is a universal truth: if you get in a knife fight, you are going to get cut. The guy who wins the knife fight is the guy who is best able to to see the sight of his own blood without going into shock."

To demonstrate, at the end of a week in which we had been doing nothing but practicing all kinds of fancy knife-fighting techniques for 7 hours per day, he let us "spar." He would take two guys, put them in the ring, hand them each a red magic marker, tell them to take off their shirts, and say "Okay troops, have at 'er."

Within about 5 seconds each fighter's torso and arms were covered with ink. And most of the wounds represented by those ink marks would have been more than most people would have been able to stand without freaking out.

This crap you see in the movies where guys are dancing around gracefully, parrying and slashing, is complete and utter crap. Get in a knife fight, you're going to get cut.

The reason I ask is because in my experience people usually have a stake in a conflictuous situation and feel that they can't afford to run. What have the sensei's of the world to say about that?

And if you get into a knife fight without a knife, then you are also going to get cut.

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

The reason I ask is because in my experience people usually have a stake in a conflictuous situation and feel that they can't afford to run. What have the sensei's of the world to say about that?

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There are only two possible reasons not to run:

1) You are absolutely certain the other person can outrun you, so you are better off not turning your back on him and you might as well try your luck fighting

2) You are with somebody else who won't be able to get away, so by running you would be abandoning them to certain death

Anything else is nothing but pride.

We're not talking about the military here, you don't need to organise a systematic retreat.

These gangs sniff out fear, if you run you spur them on, half the time they're only causing trouble for fun. If you are confident you can outrun them then obviously do so. But if you run and get caught with your back turned then you could be in deep trouble.

You are best to hold your ground and hope they back off. If they do not, it is much better to have a weapon than not to. It is of course a last resort.

In all honesty, knife crime is mostly caused by drunken idiots consumed in their pride.

But for non-drunkards, gangs are your main threat.

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Originally Posted by Goofball

There are only two possible reasons not to run:

1) You are absolutely certain the other person can outrun you, so you are better off not turning your back on him and you might as well try your luck fighting

2) You are with somebody else who won't be able to get away, so by running you would be abandoning them to certain death

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Those two things are uncertain in most situations. So that's no guideline.

Me and a friend were waiting for a night bus around 1.00 am once, many moons ago, on a deserted road outside a village. It was the last bus, and I had to be home that night. We were 17 years old. Two guys about the same age and build as us came walking down the road and one of them started waving a knife at us, demanding money for their bus fare. We retreated, talked, 'negotiated', feigned to shrug the whole thing off - until the arrival of the bus saved us. Then the other guys ran, fearing that we or the bus driver would alert the police.

Of course we could have run. Or we could have been dead. Or we could have wrung the knife from the guy´s hand. Whatever.

I'm just telling you that in such situations nothing is clear-cut except for this: most senseis talk bollox (with compliments to Tribesman).

I'm pretty sure Goofball is right here.

When you fight back you're entering dangerous terrain, that guy has usually fought more knife fights than you and you will inevitably get wounded when you might have been able to outrun him or he might have even been too lazy to run after you. If he's faster than you you can still turn around and try to surprise him.

I'm also not really sure how many people who just want some money from you want to murder you, but when you fight back with a knife to save your precious 30$ in your wallet, you're actually risking your life for those 30$.

Well from what I've found, if you are walking about on a nice day in clear sunlight then you are much more likely to be troubled by gangs looking for trouble than a mugger looking for your money.

And in those circumstances, running is just giving them the go-ahead to beat the crap out of you.

If you hold your ground, you are less likely to have a fight than if you insta-rout.

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

Those two things are uncertain in most situations. So that's no guideline.

Me and a friend were waiting for a night bus around 1.00 am once, many moons ago, on a deserted road outside a village. It was the last bus, and I had to be home that night. We were 17 years old. Two guys about the same age and build as us came walking down the road and one of them started waving a knife at us, demanding money for their bus fare. We retreated, talked, 'negotiated', feigned to shrug the whole thing off - until the arrival of the bus saved us. Then the other guys ran, fearing that we or the bus driver would alert the police.

Of course we could have run. Or we could have been dead. Or we could have wrung the knife from the guy´s hand. Whatever.

I'm just telling you that in such situations nothing is clear-cut except for this: most senseis talk bollox (with compliments to Tribesman).

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Yes. Waiting for that bus was your way out of it ~;)

What you did was negotiate and stall the situation until a way out of it appeared. You did not escalate it by flashing a knife or whatever(ie. being aggressive), like the OP thinks you should.

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OK, I'll take the bait. What point are you driving at here Tribes?

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The point was how many knife incidents has Caledonian been in and how does he get his views on the best thing to do in those situations .
My point being that carrying a knife for self defense is an extremely stupid thing to do .

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Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

And in those circumstances, running is just giving them the go-ahead to beat the crap out of you.

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And flashing a knife is not going to make them want to kick your ass?

6 guys with weapons who wants to screw with someone, and the guy pulls a knife? That sounds like a challenge if you ask me. And with a 6-1 ratio, that means your ass is going down. Assuming you're not the Terminator.

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Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

We're not talking about the military here, you don't need to organise a systematic retreat.

These gangs sniff out fear, if you run you spur them on, half the time they're only causing trouble for fun. If you are confident you can outrun them then obviously do so. But if you run and get caught with your back turned then you could be in deep trouble.

You are best to hold your ground and hope they back off. If they do not, it is much better to have a weapon than not to. It is of course a last resort.

In all honesty, knife crime is mostly caused by drunken idiots consumed in their pride.

But for non-drunkards, gangs are your main threat.

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If they're doing it for fun, they're less likely to give chase. You ran away, they won the fight as far as they're concerned and that's all they're bothered about - looking tough in front of their friends. You stand there and get your own knife out, then you give the chavs something to prove.

If you carry a knife, you're an idiot. AKA, what Tribesman said.

I think whether running is a good plan depends a lot upon the nature of the conflict you're in. If someone threatened me with a knife and demanded my wallet, I reckon I would probably attempt to run, as chasing me down over a distance would seem a lot of trouble for a few quid, and they have no stake in actually hurting me per se-they just want my money. However, if the aggressor's objective seemed to be to injure/kill me, it would be far less clear cut.

As others have already pointed out, these stats are confounded by the fact that people who carry knifes are much more likely to be involved in nefarious activities that would increase your odds of getting stabbed. I would like to see a breakdown by type of knife carried, though. I imagine that the incidence of stabbings is far higher amongst people who carry Crocodile Dundee-style machetes than amongst people who carry little penknives.

Well the number one self-defense tip of all time is....

Don't put yourself in such a situation you dolt.

~;)

Um, I don't carry a knife and I never suggested waving one about.

My point is that since running is not always an option, if you hold your ground there is a risk they will advance. And if they have a knife, and if they will outrun you, what do you do?

Wait for Mr. Brown's planned police forces to arrive?

The situation of someone pulling out any weapon on you, requires you to pull out a weapon that could easily kill both of you, thus the situation turns into MAD. I bought a lighter in L.A. that looks surprisingly like an Mk82 Fragmentation Grenade, never had to pull it out, but when I did to most of my friends they had this deer in the head lights like look, especially when I pulled the pin, pulled out a cigarette and lit it. :laugh4:

Outside uniform, my experience of such things is absolutely zero.

However, Goofball echoes my military instructor's view, and I would entirely embrace Tribesman's advice as he has, I believe, real experience.

As was noted by Spino, I imagine a lot of these statistics include knifings between young criminal gangs. In that case, I suspect the act of carrying is a provocation and the fight a badge of "honour". To not carry excludes one from that pantomime and consequently, one may well be ignored more often.

Or of course, this.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Well the number one self-defense tip of all time is....

Don't put yourself in such a situation you dolt.

~;)

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Me and Horetore agreeing? In a thread on weapons? I am aghast!

Anyways, the idea that a knife is useless in self defense, even against a group, is BS:

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Gay man freed in killing

By ALYSHA BRENNAN & THERESA CONROY

abrenna@phillynews.com

LUCAS Dawson began carrying a knife after being attacked while kissing his male lover in a South Philadelphia Park four years ago.

Now, after a second assault by gay bashers - one of whom he killed in self-defense - Dawson's thinking about getting a gun.

The 21-year-old was cleared yesterday of charges in the fatal stabbing of a 17-year-old boy who was among a group that attacked him near his East Mount Airy home on Oct. 29.

There was great relief at the Dawson home yesterday after the decision by a Municipal Court judge, but now the concern is his safety.

Last night, Dawson packed to leave home for fear of retaliation.

"I mean, seven guys jumped me, and one guy died," he said. "There's still six other people that want to hurt me.

"I fear for my safety, and that's why I'm moving away," he added. "I won't carry a knife on me anymore, but I am considering getting a gun permit."

David Diggs, the boyfriend of Lucas' mother, Lisa, said Lucas was not safe in the neighborhood any longer.

Lucas had been in jail since he was arrested after the stabbing of Gerald Knight, who was one of five to seven teens - all strangers to Dawson - who beat him and who he said called him a "faggot."

"My mom missed me while I was gone because I was always singin' up a storm," Dawson said.

Yesterday, he flashed a weary smile after Municipal Judge Gerard Kosin-ski dismissed the manslaughter charge.

Dawson, wisp-thin, frightened and frail, was released after the hearing.

Defense attorney Kevin Birley said Dawson had acted in self-defense.

"We can't forget that my client was a victim of a hate crime," Birley said.

"They wanted to hurt him. It wasn't that they were trying to get money or they had an argument with him," Birley said. "They simply wanted to hurt him so they kicked him and punched him... Even the first stab didn't stop the attack. It took a second stab to stop the attack."

Prosecutor M.K. Feeney said a jury should decide whether it was manslaughter or self-defense, but Kosinski disagreed.

"Looking at the circumstances here, I agree with the defense," Kosinski said after the preliminary hearing.

It was an unusual move for the district attorney's office to charge Dawson with voluntary manslaughter instead of a general murder charge. Feeney said in court that her office had made that decision after looking at all the facts.

"This is truly a tragic situation for everybody involved, and nobody should have to worry that when they walk down the street they should be attacked for their sexuality or any other reason," she said.

Dawson said the teens followed him as he headed for a bus stop. The teens taunted him for being gay and repeatedly threw a basketball at him, he said.

"One of them punched me in my lip," Dawson said in his statement. "Then, they all started punching me and knocked me to the ground. I was scared and I felt like if I didn't get up they would probably kill me. I felt a wave of strength and I got up... I took out the knife and waved it."

When Knight punched him, Dawson said he thrust the knife into his chest.

"I didn't think the knife went in because he kept punching me, so I stuck the knife in him again," Dawson said.

After the hearing, Diggs said the family felt sorry for the Knight family. "They lost their kid," he said.

The pain of that loss was evident on the face of Knight's father. When the judge announced the dismissal of charges, he exclaimed, "That's my son!" When approached outside the courtroom, he yelled angrily at a reporter, saying he didn't want to talk about his son.

"If you really wanted to know who he was, you should have come to the funeral," he shouted.

At the Dawson home yesterday, Lucas said, "I want to put this all behind me. My life has been turned upside down and I have to start over."

"It makes me sad," Dawson added. "I broke down in court today. I never wanted to hurt anybody... . I was trying to get these guys away from me.

"My mom said, 'You might feel bad about killing someone, but if you didn't have that knife, somebody would be knocking on my door telling me my son's dead.' "

Lisa Dawson, 40, said she is happy to have Lucas back at home, and is looking forward to finally being able to sleep through the night.

"I'm relieved," she said. "The air feels clean again."

Dawson says he'll continue pursuing an acting and modeling career. "When I was in prison, I got to thinking what I was going to do with my life," he said.

"I would like to help gay people so that this type of thing won't happen again," he said.

"It's just about ignorance, you know? I believe what you put out, you get back. And I want to give back."

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The idea that carrying a knife puts you in danger is stupid. Likely more just fools not understanding correlation (ie people who carry knives often are cut) with causation (they get cut because they participate in shady activities).

Carrying a knife doesn't take away any options, it just adds some.

CR

I only barely skimmed the thread so my comments might have already been mentioned...

Seems like a knife is much like a gun when used for self defense. Every situation is different, and you have to make the decision whether it is necessary to pull it. Is your life really in danger or is the guy just looking for some quick cash? And of course, why are you in that situation to begin with?

I think the point of the study was that a knife makes people more cocky and willing to get into bad situations. However, if you are a responsible, intelligent person, I certainly don't think you're safer without a means of defending yourself.

Is it even legal though (Carrying a knife)? I don't know about all the other places but in London with all the stop and search going on if I get caught with a knife it would be 6 years (max.) in prison for me, no matter if I never intend to use it.

Frankly I don't know what I would do. I'm rather tall with 6'3 and rather heavy thanks to regular swimming and body training and I had courses in selfdefense. I guess the best think is to slowly retreat, trying to back-out looking non-agressive but ready to counter. Running might actually make it easier for them to harm you - seems that the brain is wired that way, just look what happened in battles when the enemy could no longer defend itself.

I agree that a trained man can take on a group, especially if he acts quickly with great force and possibly with a knife. But I don't want to come to that point.

It depends on where you live. I'd prefer to be in a position where I can defend myself rather than trust in the Labour government's stupidly flawed policies.

Sorry, I don't go with any of the rigid rules above. I'll stick with my Dad's, who said you should stand up for yourself and the things you value in life. In one situation it means you run, in another it means you fight bare-handed against superior force. In yet another it means you argue and apply your intelligence to the best of your ability to solve a situation. Most of the examples above don't tell me anything about knives, they only tell me what kind of person the poster is.

As someone who's been stabbed - twice - and didn't enjoy it, I would generally agree that picking your battles is important, and some things are just not worth fighting over. However, I agree wholeheartedly with Adrian. Sometimes you got to do what you got to do.

Also, I don't carry a knife except in my leatherman multitool.

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

I think the point of the study was that a knife makes people more cocky and willing to get into bad situations. However, if you are a responsible, intelligent person, I certainly don't think you're safer without a means of defending yourself.

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:2thumbsup:

Yes, I agreed with PJ!

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Sometimes you got to do what you got to do.

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Yes and it isn't pleasant .
And sometimes it doesn't work out very well ,carrying stuff frself defense doesn't mean you can defend yourself .
A good friend of mine got in a fight , he was entirely faultless in this instance and though outnumbered beat the crap out of them , but as a consequence he knew there would be a severe comeback . He took to carrying one of them Fairbairns on his arm because he knew he was going to have to defend himself , he very shortly ended up in hospital for a very long time .
Obviously the dagger wasn't sufficient so he obtained a nice little automatic as the gun and dagger should be sufficient to defend himself ...within a month he left a widow and two fatherless daughters .
Its funny really as he was someone that would always go well over the top if anyone produced a weapon in a confrontation .

The first thing that strikes me is that if the other guy has a knife and you pull one you've just started a fight. In that situation you have two lethal weapons and unless you have the bigger knife and the balls to gut the other guy before he moves you're going to get cut bad. So that means pulling a knife if the other guy pulls one is a bad idea, no matter how it goes.

On the other hand if you pull a knife the other guy might pull a bigger knife or a gun, in which case you have to gut him again. Only this time because you waited for him to pull his weapon you've lost the initiative. So that's a bad idea.

Running might work, unless he's/they're faster, or can throw knives, or have a gun. So maybe you still get cut/shot/ Maybe you bleed out later in a ditch. Still not good.

Backing away slowly, getting to a place with people or handing over cash if that's what they want is probably your best bet. Even then things could go very bad and you could end up dead.

The only good way to carry a knife would seem to be to look scary so that people decide to mess with someone else instead. It would need to be a big knife and also visible. I believe that's what my Dad did in certain parts of the tropics. No use in London though, unless you figure prison is safer.

In a situation when faced with a knife wielding mugger/thief whatever its the extreme responses that work best, look as crazy as they do, i have always figured telling people im HIV positive at this point would help, basically make out you don't care what happens aslong as you take this guy down with you

or

Hit him as hard as you can and then run as fast as you can, of course all depends on how hard (and fast) you can hit and how fast you can run...

or

Hand over everything and cooperate

I think anything in between would work as well, their the options i would have going through my head, of course if your looking at the craziest hardest guy alive then option 1 isn't going to work, if he's that big option 2 probably works better and well option 3 is the fall back position, i would use option 1 or 2 as i trust myself complete with adrenelin rush to be faster than any mugger i face

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Originally Posted by Adrian II

Sorry, I don't go with any of the rigid rules above. I'll stick with my Dad's, who said you should stand up for yourself and the things you value in life. In one situation it means you run, in another it means you fight bare-handed against superior force. In yet another it means you argue and apply your intelligence to the best of your ability to solve a situation. Most of the examples above don't tell me anything about knives, they only tell me what kind of person the poster is.

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Agreed.

Anybody saying you should stand you ground out of pride is an idiot.

If someone wants to rob me he better mean it because I am sure as hell to proud for that.

edit; from my experience, the more there are the less trouble you are in. One is dangerous, two is very dangerous, 3 less dangerous and from there on less and less.

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Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

Yes, I agreed with PJ!

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Why on earth do you start a thread complaining about a study if you agree with said study...?

You could throw some money into his general direction and then run away, assuming you're in a big city and he only has a small window of opportunity, as opposed to being in the middle of the sahara desert, you should get enough of a headstart to make it to somewhere safer. Or just kill him with your own gun but that might mean you get imprisoned for murder/manslaughter if you cannot prove that he actually wanted to mug you...
Stabbing him with a knife could lead to a similar charge I guess.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Why on earth do you start a thread complaining about a study if you agree with said study...?

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I am agreeing that if you can trust yourself to be responsible then having a weapon as a last resort would be no bad thing. Because if you are facing a group attacking you for the sake of attacking you, then the situation can develop in a way that leaves you with a few options:

1. Run - if its works, great. If not, then you are stuck with step 2
2. Stand your ground (without weapon in hand) - if it works, both sides can back off, if not, then we will presume the other side in the aggressor. Taking you to step 3
3. Conflict - now, if they just want fisticuffs, there no need to up the odds. But if they pull out a knife and clearly make a move to use it, well then unless you are a lot stronger than them or know some fancy moves then a weapon would be useful. Plus taking out a weapon yourself may act as a deterrent, just like nations with nuclear weapons.

So its good to have something up your sleeve just in case.

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Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax

I think whether running is a good plan depends a lot upon the nature of the conflict you're in. If someone threatened me with a knife and demanded my wallet, I reckon I would probably attempt to run, as chasing me down over a distance would seem a lot of trouble for a few quid, and they have no stake in actually hurting me per se-they just want my money. However, if the aggressor's objective seemed to be to injure/kill me, it would be far less clear cut.

As others have already pointed out, these stats are confounded by the fact that people who carry knifes are much more likely to be involved in nefarious activities that would increase your odds of getting stabbed. I would like to see a breakdown by type of knife carried, though. I imagine that the incidence of stabbings is far higher amongst people who carry Crocodile Dundee-style machetes than amongst people who carry little penknives.

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How much money do you carry in your wallet? Doesn't make sense to risk getting chased down and stabbed for a few bucks. Some people are just crazy.

Better yet, carry a cheapo alternate wallet with some money and an old ID in it.

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Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

I am agreeing that if you can trust yourself to be responsible then having a weapon as a last resort would be no bad thing..

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But the point of it wasn't about responsible people with perfect judgment, but the general public, wasn't it? And since very few people have been exposed to situations like these, it's likely that very few have the proper judgment, and hence them warning people against carrying knives, as it is false safety.

People in general are likely not to have the judgment required to know what to do, and as such carrying a knife is likely to do more damage than good.

Also, a few pints of scotch tend to seriously ruin your judgment on everything, and carrying a knife with you at such times is a genuinely bad idea.

Well I would rather have a weapon in my pocket and trust my judgement than trust in the reasoning of a group of attackers.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

But the point of it wasn't about responsible people with perfect judgment, but the general public, wasn't it? And since very few people have been exposed to situations like these, it's likely that very few have the proper judgment, and hence them warning people against carrying knives, as it is false safety.

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If you live in a bad neighbourhood it's your daily reality having to deal with that, groups of aggresive youths, junkies, annoying drunks. Lived in a really not to bad neighbourhood in Amsterdam and when you go out on the street after dark you are bound to encounter at least one of those above and most of the time all.

Funny statistics, I carry 3 around with me depending on the occasion. Never been more then scratched.....

Thinking waving a sharp pointy thing around a criminals face is some how going to descalate the situation is rather moronic at best. Nope if you decide to wave a knife around in a situation as those listed you deserver to be stabbed or worse killed. Use the d*** thing and don't let them see it. If you arent prepared to use a knife or kill someone over that 30$'s in your wallet give it to them and back off. If you arent prepared for what the situation demands then don't walk yourself into that situation.

Knife's, guns, bats, daggers, sharp bottles, pointy sticks don't magically solve the situation. They escalate it and if you arent prepared to use them and reap the inevitable consequences then you shouldnt have been carrying a weapon and putting yourself into that position.

I'm going to somewhat agree with Horetore for once, somewhat. If you arent prepared to kill the person with that knife, it's best to run and not start waving it around. Or better yet throw what they want at them and run.

Sasaki mentioned what I always do when I'm trekking. Carry some money, and old ID and give them the mugger so that he has the feeling that he won. He walks away with some euros and I unharmed.

I always carry a multitool or a light knife, but it is clearly ment for work. I don't think I would be able to stab somebody, since I never faced physical violence after I became large and quite trained and don't know how I would react to it.

In my minute experience muggers, no matter the size of the group tend to pick out the weakest looking individuals. If you look like you might be able to harm them, they'll stay away. Mostly because Muggers are cowards by instinct... thats why women, teenagers, and younger get picked out from the lot, the wolves theory, pick the weakest and mostly sickly from the herd.

Heh, I'm not the strongest but I've never been mugged and never been afraid to walk around the city at night either, I'm simply not afraid and perhaps I developed a "leave me alone and I'll leave you alone"- face over the years for different reasons. There were someo people who stopped me in a verbally violent way over the years but for some reason I always got out unharmed without running or dragging a weapon but it all happened when I was younger than 15 and it was never about money. the strangest thing were two littles kids asking me whether I would think I could fight them and subsequently trying to get me to fight them while I was waiting for a bus. That was pretty weird but I thought either they're stupid or they have a plan involving their big brothers' gang. :dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by BigTex

I'm going to somewhat agree with Horetore for once, somewhat. If you arent prepared to kill the person with that knife, it's best to run and not start waving it around. Or better yet throw what they want at them and run.

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For sure, I actually agree. If worst comes to worst, use it. Otherwise, give them what they want. Think about if you want to incapacitate the mugger over what you have in your wallet. If yes, then do so quickly. If not, give them what you have.

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Originally Posted by Husar

Heh, I'm not the strongest but I've never been mugged and never been afraid to walk around the city at night either, I'm simply not afraid and perhaps I developed a "leave me alone and I'll leave you alone"- face over the years for different reasons. There were someo people who stopped me in a verbally violent way over the years but for some reason I always got out unharmed without running or dragging a weapon but it all happened when I was younger than 15 and it was never about money. the strangest thing were two littles kids asking me whether I would think I could fight them and subsequently trying to get me to fight them while I was waiting for a bus. That was pretty weird but I thought either they're stupid or they have a plan involving their big brothers' gang. :dizzy2:

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and perhaps you're very well right. the last run in I had that might have developed into something more was I was walking to a gas station around the corner from my apartment when I was living in Cali. A young kid somewhere in his mid teens stopped and asked if I had any cash on me, I stared him down, smirked, and nodded my head and went on my way. Later as I was leaving the store, him and three other guys were hanging around the same corner, I looked them over fairly quickly, as I'm sure they did me, and nothing ever came of it. Keep it mind of course, that I'm speaking from experience living in Los Angeles, and not Germany, which I'm sure the violent crime rate varies fairly sharply. However, my wife did have a run-in with a mugger when she was a teen, and didn't come away bruise free, so I'm particularly leery of most vagabonds, and I think they can sense it.

It will be different every time it happens and only the person involved can decide what they think is the best option, not to say they are going to get it right of course. all of the experiences I've had didn't involve running away as it wouldn't have helped, sometimes the standoff resulted in the one side backing off and other I had to fight, sometimes winning sometimes not.

Carrying a knife isn't a good idea, I have never carried one and I was brought up in quite a rough area and saw my first knife fight when I was about 6, both of the men fighting got cut.

Making the carrying of knives illegal isn't the answer in my opinion, this government likes to ban things instead of solving the problem, I also don't think the problem is as big as the media make out. How many deaths have there been in London this year from stabbings? 21? Out of how many people? 7 million? Those odds are pretty good.