It's the end of the world as we know it.

I was watching the History channel last night when a program came on that explained how the ancient Mayans predicted the world to end on December 21, 2012. This date is celestially significant because this is the date that the Earth, the Sun, and the center of the Milky Way form a line. This happens only once every 25,800 years. They also cited how the Oracle of Delphi, and the Cybele of Rome predicted the world would come to an end around that time as well. They had some other justifications as well, but I can't remember all of them...

So what do you think? Do you think that the Mayans have some sense in predicting our doom (because they were accurate in predicting their own), or do you think it's all nonsense? Answer wisely.
:7detective:

Well, in my humble opinion... I don't think so.
For one thing, what do they mean by "end of the world"? Earth is due to explode (or implode... be destroyed, in any case) in millenia. And not in 4 years. So what could be the end of the world?
Also, the alignement happens every 25,800 years? Well, it happened 25,796 years ago, and we're still here, right?
The way the world is right now, yes, the next few years/decades are going to be difficult (inflation, political instability, environmental disasters, etc.), but I don't think the end of the world is upon us. Yet.

Note that I don't know much about the subject in question. It just seems improbable to me.

EDIT: by the way, is this the right forum for such a question?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the world 'll end in 2012.

:balloon2:

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Originally Posted by Good Ship Chuckle

I was watching the History channel last night when a program came on that explained how the ancient Mayans predicted the world to end on December 21, 2012. This date is celestially significant because this is the date that the Earth, the Sun, and the center of the Milky Way form a line. This happens only once every 25,800 years.

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They never predicted the world would end then. Their calender ends at this date for this reason. It's just an end of an old calender.

And the oracle of Delphi received her visions from a natural gas vent that made her hallucinate/contort, unless I am mistaken.

The History Channel must die!!!

The British army should be getting a new medium armoured vehicle about the. Does that mean we're going to go on a mad imperialistic campaign that ends in some kind of nuclear catastrophe?

Because if so, I'd like to be first at the bookies.

SE

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Originally Posted by Good Ship Chuckle

This date is celestially significant because this is the date that the Earth, the Sun, and the center of the Milky Way form a line. This happens only once every 25,800 years.

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The center of teh Milky Way ya say? Well the Mayans were not able to see the center of the Milky Way; it's obscured by massive dust fields.

Anyway, alignments are celestially insignifcant (strictly speaking, aren't the Earth, the Sun and Sagittarius A* (the center of the Milky Way) pretty much aligned all the time? :laugh4:).

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Originally Posted by Warmaster Horus

Also, the alignement happens every 25,800 years? Well, it happened 25,796 years ago, and we're still here, right?

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The Mayans didn't know that when they were inventing their mythology. :smash:

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Originally Posted by Warmaster Horus

For one thing, what do they mean by "end of the world"? Earth is due to explode (or implode... be destroyed, in any case) in millenia. And not in 4 years.

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For this question I will refer to the title of this thread. The end of the world as we know it. It doesn't mean the world will explode in a big firey bang. The Mayans refer to the end coming in the form of rising waters, which sounds hauntingly similiar to the effects of global warming. Could be natural disaster. Could be disease epidemic. Could be nuclear cotastrophe. Could be world-wide economic failure. The world may not end; it may just radically change.

The Mayans predicted the end of the world, but it was just for them. In reality the world kept on going alright. That could be the case for this prediction. Most of the people in the world could perish, and yet humankind could still manage to exist.

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Originally Posted by Viking

The center of teh Milky Way ya say? Well the Mayans were not able to see the center of the Milky Way; it's obscured by massive dust fields.

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The Mayans had deep knowledge of the heavens. They were able to predict eclipses thousands of years into the future. When I implied "see" the center of the Milky Way, I really meant "calculate" by knowing how everything else was moving in the heavens.

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Originally Posted by Viking

Anyway, alignments are celestially insignifcant (strictly speaking, aren't the Earth, the Sun and Sagittarius A* (the center of the Milky Way) pretty much aligned all the time?)

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Ummm...Geometry 101. Three points (earth, sun, and center of MW) are not always contained on a straight line.

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Originally Posted by Reverend Joe

And the oracle of Delphi received her visions from a natural gas vent that made her hallucinate/contort, unless I am mistaken.

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That is a valid theory! But does that discredit her in any way? She was correct in a number of predictions (e.g. Alexander's conquests), irrelevent of whether they were gas induced.

Will the world end on December 21, 2012?!!! What do you think? :7detective:

The Mayans did not predict doomsday, it is just the end of one calendrical unit. But some people are always looking for signs of doomsday so year 2000, cryptic religious texts or prophets ad nauseam will always be popular.


CBR

I hope so.

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Originally Posted by CBR

The Mayans did not predict doomsday, it is just the end of one calendrical unit. But some people are always looking for signs of doomsday so year 2000, cryptic religious texts or prophets ad nauseam will always be popular.


CBR

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This.

It's like panicking because we've reached the end of the year and nothing comes after December 31st. A load of twaddle.

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Originally Posted by Good Ship Chuckle

Will the world end on December 21, 2012?!!! What do you think? :7detective:

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I'm going to continue doing what I do every day whether or not it's going to end. In other words, it makes no difference.

it might bring an end to the world as we know it... it may also be that a comet will hit peru or anyhow south america and will kill the world as they knew it... but i doubt it... i do think that religious fanatic ghosts will attempt to crash silhouet planes into phantom towers, and a dead tolkien will write a book about it!!! :help:

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Originally Posted by Puzz3D

I'm going to continue doing what I do every day whether or not it's going to end. In other words, it makes no difference.

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don't lie, we all know you would start to rape murder and thieve like a madman, getting high and drunk in the process and slam yourself into a wall, actually believing the world has come to an end... and it has... for you... dont lie... were onto you! :whip:

you know whats funny... people only tend to look at the number of RIGHT predictions when looking at the credibility of a seer or someone who predicts... They forget about the 21,192,245,111 wrong predictions they made, while only 17 were right... quite odd isnt it, because would i be someone else, lets say a footballplayer and I'd say, ive lost 21,192,245,111 games but i've won 17 though, nobody is going to pat me on the back and say, youre one heck of a player. its easy, i could sit and make predictions for the rest of my life and have a few hit as well.

another obscure thing is that those predictions are always what u see in them, if im right the delphi oracly was ALWAYS ambiguous, and proud of it. Ofcourse, you can see in a prediction whatever you want most of the time, so when someone said a great man is going to conquer the world, everyone nowadays is immediatly, great? omg alexander!!! conquer the world? oh well, the world as they knew it... but actually it never happened...

and what about the possibilty that, because i know alexander attended the oracle, his conquerings were only carried through because he believed in the oracle, had the oracle said you are a GREAT loser, a crybaby and gay and will never accomplish anything, he might have gone home crying. and the oracle would have been right as well... and there i guess lies its strength and weakness, you have to believe in order for it to be true, come true.

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Originally Posted by Good Ship Chuckle

The Mayans had deep knowledge of the heavens. They were able to predict eclipses thousands of years into the future. When I implied "see" the center of the Milky Way, I really meant "calculate" by knowing how everything else was moving in the heavens.

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How could they know that the Milky Way actually had a center? :clown:

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Ummm...Geometry 101. Three points (earth, sun, and center of MW) are not always contained on a straight line.

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That completely depends on your perspective; stars that appears to be aligned on the night sky typically have completely different distances from you. Of course, you could say that by alignment you mean that you could sort of drag a stright line through their centers, in which it only happens then and then; but it's still an insignificant event.

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Will the world end on December 21, 2012?!!! What do you think?

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There is no more reason to consider that prophecy (which as other says, is in fact not necessarily a prophecy at all) more valid than the monster under your bed; both has as many scientific evidences to back them up (which is no one at all).

Again, the History Channel must die!!! Die History Channel, die!!!

I will quote Jolee Bindo now.

"Every generation thinks that his or hers is the epic one." or something in that lines. Think about it.

Between the 50's and the 70's, we were afraid of the Soviets.

Between the 70's and 90's (stretching it a bit) we were afraid of the Arabs.

And now, we fear some date. Nah, I don't believe it.

Death to the History Channel!!!


Except, of course dogfights. Did they kill that one?

Sorry to trash your party, but this has been proven wrong already. Calculated the Myans were off by a mile span. After a year of research a scientist discovered that if the Mayans were right, the world should have ended in 1993 or something along those lines. Don't worry. Besides I wouldn't trust people that thought cutting out someones heart and eating it can earn their bravery, the best it could've done was lower your cholestral, and give you a healthy dose of calcium

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Originally Posted by RoadKill

Sorry to trash your party, but this has been proven wrong already. Calculated the Myans were off by a mile span. After a year of research a scientist discovered that if the Mayans were right, the world should have ended in 1993 or something along those lines. Don't worry. Besides I wouldn't trust people that thought cutting out someones heart and eating it can earn their bravery, the best it could've done was lower your cholestral, and give you a healthy dose of calcium

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Quite so.

Also about the Oracle. The Oracle of Delphi did inhale gas Ethylene (also called Ethene), which made her a bit crazy to say the least. However she would utter nothing sensible and comprehensible. Priests than "translated" the nonsense she uttered. These Priest weren't the stupidest of men, and usually said something contra dictive and vague. Something that usually could be poly interpretable. And when they were clear about something, it was when it was something that was pretty sure to happen/or couldn't be checked. A famous example is when Croesus went to Delphi, the priests told him: 'if you're going to cross the river of Halys, you'll destroy a mighty empire'. History tells us he lost his empire. However the priests who had it wrong had covered themselves nicely. Who is to say that they didn't mean Croesuses empire would fall? When it came to war, the golden rule was to side with the one appearing to be the strongest.

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Originally Posted by The Stranger

you know whats funny... people only tend to look at the number of RIGHT predictions when looking at the credibility of a seer or someone who predicts... They forget about the 21,192,245,111 wrong predictions they made, while only 17 were right... quite odd isnt it, because would i be someone else, lets say a footballplayer and I'd say, ive lost 21,192,245,111 games but i've won 17 though, nobody is going to pat me on the back and say, youre one heck of a player. its easy, i could sit and make predictions for the rest of my life and have a few hit as well.

another obscure thing is that those predictions are always what u see in them, if im right the delphi oracly was ALWAYS ambiguous, and proud of it. Ofcourse, you can see in a prediction whatever you want most of the time, so when someone said a great man is going to conquer the world, everyone nowadays is immediatly, great? omg alexander!!! conquer the world? oh well, the world as they knew it... but actually it never happened...

and what about the possibilty that, because i know alexander attended the oracle, his conquerings were only carried through because he believed in the oracle, had the oracle said you are a GREAT loser, a crybaby and gay and will never accomplish anything, he might have gone home crying. and the oracle would have been right as well... and there i guess lies its strength and weakness, you have to believe in order for it to be true, come true.

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Good point...and a highly entertaining one

Any day could be the last day, so why bother with something one cannot effect at all.

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Originally Posted by The Stranger

and what about the possibilty that, because i know alexander attended the oracle, his conquerings were only carried through because he believed in the oracle, had the oracle said you are a GREAT loser, a crybaby and gay and will never accomplish anything, he might have gone home crying. and the oracle would have been right as well... and there i guess lies its strength and weakness, you have to believe in order for it to be true, come true.

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Hilarious.

However, as a defender of sexuality, I've gotta take issue with your suggestion that gays can't achieve anything. :laugh4:

Shut up, Crate :P Though the comment itself is indeed a bit off.

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Also about the Oracle. The Oracle of Delphi did inhale gas Ethylene (also called Ethene), which made her a bit crazy to say the least. However she would utter nothing sensible and comprehensible. Priests than "translated" the nonsense she uttered. These Priest weren't the stupidest of men, and usually said something contra dictive and vague. Something that usually could be poly interpretable. And when they were clear about something, it was when it was something that was pretty sure to happen/or couldn't be checked. A famous example is when Croesus went to Delphi, the priests told him: 'if you're going to cross the river of Halys, you'll destroy a mighty empire'. History tells us he lost his empire. However the priests who had it wrong had covered themselves nicely. Who is to say that they didn't mean Croesuses empire would fall? When it came to war, the golden rule was to side with the one appearing to be the strongest.

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To add to this, the priests were well informed of the business going on in the world. A lot of people came to Delphi and talked about the latest rumours there. The modern-day oracles would be Char and people like that. Saying vague and double things.

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Originally Posted by Good Ship Chuckle

I was watching the History channel last night when a program came on that explained how the ancient Mayans predicted the world to end on December 21, 2012. This date is celestially significant because this is the date that the Earth, the Sun, and the center of the Milky Way form a line. This happens only once every 25,800 years. They also cited how the Oracle of Delphi, and the Cybele of Rome predicted the world would come to an end around that time as well. They had some other justifications as well, but I can't remember all of them...

So what do you think? Do you think that the Mayans have some sense in predicting our doom (because they were accurate in predicting their own), or do you think it's all nonsense? Answer wisely.
:7detective:

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That would be so freagin awsome!~:cheers:

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Originally Posted by Craterus

Hilarious.

However, as a defender of sexuality, I've gotta take issue with your suggestion that gays can't achieve anything. :laugh4:

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ah booboo, have I offended little cratieboys feelings??? :inquisitive:

I can't believe the History Channel has provoked a discussion of anything, as if there was a basis for whatever? Next I can’t believe the History Channel has provoked a discussion of institutionalized prophetic pronouncement as propagandized and presented by the History Channel? The History Channel must die!!! It must die here; it must die now!!!

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Originally Posted by The Stranger

ah booboo, have I offended little cratieboys feelings??? :inquisitive:

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Not at all old friend. You carry on. :nice:

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Originally Posted by Hax

Shut up, Crate :P Though the comment itself is indeed a bit off.



To add to this, the priests were well informed of the business going on in the world. A lot of people came to Delphi and talked about the latest rumours there. The modern-day oracles would be Char and people like that. Saying vague and double things.

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Ah this is what you get if EB members ( and ex-members) run into each other. :yes:

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Originally Posted by Hax

To add to this, the priests were well informed of the business going on in the world. A lot of people came to Delphi and talked about the latest rumours there. The modern-day oracles would be Char and people like that. Saying vague and double things.

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Hax

You took that as a collage of several Disaster Channel programs. I’ve seen the same programs, and what was claimed. Are you really saying you believe that collection of [self edited] because you saw it on the Disaster Channel?


CmacQ

What?

No, I didn't.

Seriously, stop acting so paranoid. I never even stated I got it from the Disaster Channel or something of the liking. Relax, really.

cmacq, can I call you CWood Macq?

Cause that would be cool. :grin:

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The History Channel must die!!!

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How do you come with such a conclussion?

Is someone going to bump this topic in about 3 and a half years time to give us some warning ?!

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Originally Posted by Caius

How do you come with such a conclussion?

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They have bought into the disaster for cash propaganda thing, so they must die, except for the dogfight series, of course. My personal fav is 'manmade global warming and we are all going to die, ho bloody my.' It seems that every 10 yrs, humanity is going to be destroyed by some new or old something or whatever. Since, the end of the Cold War, a legitimate source of concern, it’s only gotten far worse as one crazed [self edited for political reasons] group attempts to outdo another. The Disaster Channel has simply become a mouthpiece for these lunatics to vent, without rebuttal, so it serves only to indoctrinate yet another generation into the mindless collective, du jour. Death to the History Channel!



Hope this help?


CmacQ

While I can't verify the quality of the history channel, as we don't get it in Belgium. What point are you trying to make except for the fact that you think the history channel is evil and bad. While I must say I don't find it hard to believe, as I guess it has probably the same standard as National geographics history programs. If you're point is the world isn't bound to get destroyed within the next few years. Then point taken, it is not that someone was seriously claiming it was. If it's about global warming, then lets keep it up for the backroom, shall we not? ~:)

OT: everything Hax said about the oracle of Delphi, I believe, unless I missed something, are nothin more buth the commonly accepted 'facts'. Of course as in every science the accepted theories and stuff aren't therefore necessarily true.

So let's all fear, make a pun, or discuss anything relevant. Or we could say something about camels or pie. Did you know that I like pie? I do frankly. And beer hmmm yes beer.

Alrightie then...


Hax you started this. Moros seems to be calling you out, and if he ain't, I am, so please provide the textual references for your statements about the Oracle of Delphi, and we shall see how many degrees of separation there is between them and the Disaster Channel. My moneys on Hax hiding under his desk.

And Moros, ‘evil and bad,’ a bit harsh? The History Channel has a few good programs, such as Dogfights, which is actually without peer. One might say that little clip proves that sometimes its better to be lucky than good. Then at the other pole we have this. Now Hax fess up out chum. And more. And yet more again. And the end. Actually the Oracle of Delphi program was quit good, except for the Dutch geologist’s speculation about how the Delphi priestly order gleamed information from the unwitting passer bys. Geologists should stick to the rocks. Also very strange there was no mention of Brennus, maybe it didn't fit the theory?

All in good cheer, of course.



CmacQ

Can someone provide a brief description of the theory the program claimed to be true? Also is Hax actually referring to this program? Cmacq you apparantly watched it. Or a linky or a referance (I have acces to university sources and databases like Jstor, to name one of the most famous) to a possible scientific study which might have been made along side the program, or which the program was based on.

About information gathering, the priests were educated and bright men. So they weren't completely in the dark. They also had contacts with people from all over what was then seen as the world. And with so many visitors and also kings going to the Oracle, you of course get information from all this. And of course I can believe that sometimes a delphi priest had a freind or a good aquintace in a royal house or one serving in one from time to time.

I'm not actually calling out Hax, nor you Cmacq, but I would like to discuss this theory. And perhaps even learn something new. I was however trying to get back to this theory and not going off topic. Also whatever you may say I do rather find NGC's history programs lacking. Though they can be usefull and educative for kids or people who don't know too much about the subject. many times the programs have mistakes or are of rather low quality (a battle represented by 4 men fighting), or pretends to have done major discovery while the haven't. However I must admit I can sometimes enjoy thel anyway, and I know I did when I was a kiddo.

Edit: should this perhaps be moved over to a more appropriate forum, as it's getting more about history/science?

Moros


just got up and a bit groggy, but all seem very good points. Maybe you could copy and paste your last post to the science forum? It may prove a very interesting topic for discussion. As far as the speculation, I have a feeling the truth may lay far more or less on either side of these statements. I could explain this in greater detail, however this may not be the best place to do so.


CmacQ

You know what I'll do just that. Though I would like to knwo what this theory you were referring to was first. That way it can be included into the opening post. You can't make a thread discussing a theory, if you don't know the theory you know...:egypt:

Right,

although I’ve no personal experience myself, I’ve heard it called Taibhsearachd, and some say its sign is the salmon, which was used as a mark of decent.

http://www.clanmacquarrie.org/arms01.jpg

They claim in different fashions, it affects only certain people, in particular families or lines, as a form of perception, I suppose. I’m just wondering if the Pythia at Delphi was a similar tradition? Then on the other hand, the pronouncements were often so intentionally cryptic. Yet with the Taibhsearachd, it’s said the perception is visual, thus some odd detail about an article of dress is often included. I for one don’t believe it such nonsense, unless there is a rational explaination. However, I've sure seen some strange things and as the bard is want to say, ‘there are more things in heaven and earth, than are dreamt of in our philosophy.’

http://people.bath.ac.uk/prsrlp/kern...ix/b95102s.jpg

Hope thats not at all too cryptic?



CmacQ

I'll be waiting...

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Originally Posted by Ichigo

I'll be waiting...

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We all will dear Ichigo.

World ending 2012? Mayans said it? might as well just as got gary glitter on LSD and Coacaine to predict when the Homosexuals form there own nation and declare war on Uzbekistan.

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Originally Posted by CBR

The Mayans did not predict doomsday, it is just the end of one calendrical unit. But some people are always looking for signs of doomsday so year 2000, cryptic religious texts or prophets ad nauseam will always be popular.


CBR

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QFT.

Every generation likes to be the center of attention. There's a similar theme to the Christian expectation of Jesus' coming. In the new testament accounts, Christ claims he will return in this generation, and the early Christians seemed very expectant. After that generation had died off, the words were reinterpreted as the generation of mankind or somesuch, and pretty much every generation since has had a fair share of folk expecting to see it in their lifetimes. Whether Christianized or not, the idea of witnessing the end of the world is both frightening and tantalizing. But the end of one age and the beginning of another is an entirely different matter, and more important for bookkeepers than for prophets.

Ajax