Favorite/"Best" Archer?

Hello. I am currently playing a Seleukid campaign, and enjoying it. I'm awash in Mining Centers, and have a level 5 barracks in Antioch, so I'm outfitting uber-armies of pure elite spearmen, companion cavalry, syrian archers, and armoured elephants.

My question is: What is everyone's favorite archer unit? I can't decide between the syrian archers, the kretan archers, or the heavy persian archers. I'd be interested to hear everyone else's favorites, or which they consider the best overall archer unit.

Also, if anyone know of a more fun troop combo than elite spearmen, archers, heavy cav, elephants, please clue me in! :beam:

edit: "more fun" as in, holy crap i just routed a full stack army in 15 seconds. admittedly some of the fun is gone from the game by the time you reach the point monetarily where you are cherry picking elite troops for unstoppable armies, but it has its upsides too.

Caucasian Archers. They are good, reasonable area of recruitment (lvl 1 barracks help as well!), not expensive; vital infantry support for Hayasdan campaigns.

Best? Cretans. High attack, armour and shield to help vs return fire, and has the longest range *yes, even longer range then all the various steppe foot archers with a 201.6 range.*

Favorite? I guess Indians, love seeing them rip apart enemy elites at range and then fight them in meele and still kick their ass with their giant sword.

Kretans and Bosphorans are alright, but to be honest I think slingers are better than archers.

I am split between thureopherontes toxotai (Thureos carrying archers) and the Nizagan-i Eranshahr (Persian Archer-Spearmen)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by d'Arthez

Caucasian Archers. They are good, reasonable area of recruitment (lvl 1 barracks help as well!), not expensive; vital infantry support for Hayasdan campaigns.

---

In this case my vote would go for the Persian Archer-Spearmen: dirt cheap, everywhere in the East recruitable and can do at least a bit hand-to-hand combat in particular against cavalry. From pure archery I find best the Skythians.

When you are searching for a decent all-around infantrist, you need to pick either Syrians or Cretans (I don't think they differ much): good armor, sword+shield and an above-average (but not the best) archer. If you don't care about game balance or accurancy you might even recruite them as your only infantry. I don't think that many enemies will survive a contact with that army.

I prefer the Syrians over the Cretans. The Cretans have slightly higher attack, but the Syrians have more men, more armor, more ammo and more range.

Edit: Well, not more range. Unit documentation said so, but the files say different...

Edit 2: In fact, there are some more differences between the documentation and the actual values... Maybe i should have another look and think another time.

where can I find the skythians?

I've had wonderful results using imperial auxilia archers , in a huge size battle and 4 units of archers , killed like 1/2 of my kills , around 200 each

Favorite archer: Thanvare Payadag. Available everywhere in the east, has very good attack and range, level 1 MIC, very cheap. If you want to send your archers into melee, pick someone else for the job, though.

Subeshis, Mardians, and Caucasians are all quite good. Can't comment on the Scythians or Bosphorans - I have some, but the Crimea has been completely uncontested in my Hayasdan game.

||Lz3|| - Scythian units are found basically all around the northern half of the Black Sea, plus the Caucasus Mountains. For factions not named Hayasdan, I believe the standard method to acquire them is to take the Crimea.

On the "more fun troop combo" question - horse archers! Especially cataphract HA, though you're out of luck there with AS. You can get Parthians and I think also Dahae HA in the northeast.

i enjoy the dacian archers

How about horse archers? Easier to fire over your battle line, can flank and shoot the enemy in the arse, run away when attacked...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Apgad

How about horse archers? Easier to fire over your battle line, can flank and shoot the enemy in the arse, run away when attacked...

---

Meh, I Don't like calvary, I at most have 2-3 units of Calvary, not counting my general.

even Romans adapted cavalry to their ranks after the seperation especially. and according to a historian
in one battle they were no difference between sassanid and byzantine army (all cavalry dominated)
Romans learned this lesson very painfully :-) I am teaching AS in my campaign I started my rebellion against them thanks to my hero arsaces and at most 20% of casulties belong to my army the rest stupid
AS Army who still think to defeat my cavalry mostly horse archers with their phlangites...
keep up good work I seperated seleukia into 4 after conquest of charax then I will smash this little AS parts one by one :-)

if you do not like cavalry prepare your men a sudden death with a significant cavalry charge!

I charge even phalangites with my dahae riders but of course from front and at back at the same time

I will start my AAR you can see :-)

CAVALRY RULES THE WORLD, ELEPHANT RULES CAVALRY :laugh4:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fondor_Yards

Best? Cretans. High attack, armour and shield to help vs return fire, and has the longest range *yes, even longer range then all the various steppe foot archers with a 201.6 range.*

---

Is this intentional? Because in the Anabasis and in Livy's account of the Roman campaign against Philip V, Cretans are explicitly said to have weak bows with heavy arrowheads that combined to make their archery far from effective. Xenophon relates an episode in which the Cretans were so outranged by the Persian archers that the 10,000 needed to recruit slingers from the Rhodians among them in order to fight back, while the Cretans later on captured Persian arrows and only then began to improve their range.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atraphoenix

if you do not like cavalry prepare your men a sudden death with a significant cavalry charge!

---

Meh give me a few units of a good old fasioned spearmen over a bunch of horses any day.

I'm not good with calvary and never will be, as such I only use them as supporting units.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeinPanzer

Is this intentional? Because in the Anabasis and in Livy's account of the Roman campaign against Philip V, Cretans are explicitly said to have weak bows with heavy arrowheads that combined to make their archery far from effective. Xenophon relates an episode in which the Cretans were so outranged by the Persian archers that the 10,000 needed to recruit slingers from the Rhodians among them in order to fight back, while the Cretans later on captured Persian arrows and only then began to improve their range.

---

*Shrugs* I also read a while back *here I think, not too sure* that they were so good at killing because their fired their arrows horizontally, like a crossbow, to penetrate armour better. So probably not.

Also HA shouldn't be counted, since they are too good in the hands of a player vs the AI, not matter what type of HA and no matter the AI's army make up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fondor_Yards

Also HA shouldn't be counted, since they are too good in the hands of a player vs the AI, not matter what type of HA and no matter the AI's army make up.

---

Unless of course there commanded by me, At which point they turn into a disorganized mob and shoot themselves in the face.

Definetely Cretans. No matter which faction I play I put Crete as a top priority to start ferrying in archers to my homelands.

As far as "common" archer units go, the Persian archer-spearmen take the cake. Massive recruitment area, cheap, reasonably effective and not afraid of light or even medium cavalry. For more specialist roles though, you'll want to look at some others:
- If you want your archers to NOT die like flies in prolonged arrow-duels, go for the Syrians
- If you want your archers to darken the skies and rain death like none other, go for the Subeshi
- If you want your archers to have lasting power in both missile and melee combat, go for the Bosphorans
- If you want your archers to really kick some ass in melee, go for the Indians

persians, subeshi, mardian, etc. over everythink! in poor words, everythink that come from the east...

edit: but wait, i didn't know the cretan had more 200 range? wow, so they are the best archers in the whole world... strange, i always learnd the eastern archers were the best...

I thought Kretans had about 140 range, so where has 200 come from? Also, I for one am going to stand up for Scythians, in fact, anything from the East, but especially the North East. Best though in my opinion is the Sarmatian Noble Horse Archers. 32 Charge, 190 range, and 20 defence. What more could you possibly want when it comes to cavalry?
As I say though, for foot archers, go northeast. best place to go for the westerners is te Bklack sea, plus you get the bonus of bosphuran archers, who are also not to be sniffed at.

me too thought that (i readed the Unit Compare tool), but Fondoryards is right, i just checked the EDU, and it seems they have that 200+ range, better than everything i know... even better than the subeshi and other steppe units that use the composite bow in the description...???

strange...

also their ammo is different from the Unit Compare tool, it's 35, so the same of the various eastern archers... while in the tool there is written 25 if i well remember.

My favourite would be the Toxotai Syriakoi, second being the Kretikoi.

agree, especially when they get a few chevs in they do well as light infantry to plug gaps in lines

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obelics

me too thought that (i readed the Unit Compare tool), but Fondoryards is right, i just checked the EDU, and it seems they have that 200+ range, better than everything i know... even better than the subeshi and other steppe units that use the composite bow in the description...???

strange...

also their ammo is different from the Unit Compare tool, it's 35, so the same of the various eastern archers... while in the tool there is written 25 if i well remember.

---

So what IS the longest ranged unit? I always though that it was the early Yuezhi Nobles, with 202, but this doesn't appear to be the case.

ive checked subeshi archers, sarmatian, thanvare persian and some other one, but no one match the current cretan range in the edu... only the saka are better, with a range of 209 vs a cretan range of 201.9, i dont know... could it be a last minute mistake?

edit: ive only checked foot-archers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obelics

ive checked subeshi archers, sarmatian, thanvare persian and some other one, but no one match the current cretan range in the edu... only the saka are better, with a range of 209 vs a cretan range of 201.9, i dont know... could it be a last minute mistake?

edit: ive only checked foot-archers.

---

So Saka foot archers? Eastwards, men! (Or at least, it will be when I get home from Holland.)

I don't know why, but for me sneaking a couple units of archers to point blank range directly behind an engaged enemy and decimating them with fire arrows is even more satisfying than almost an other method of routing, except possibly sending elephants into tightly packed infantry. ANY archer units can excel at this, which is why I prefer them to slingers, except when defending cities. However, the longer ranged archers are useful in the field when trying to fend off Horse Archers or driving back other missile troops.

If you are playing AS, I don't think you'll be able to get the Saka foot archers, I've never seen them recruitable in anything other than a Nomad settlement (they are universally recruitable for the Saka). You do have the mighty Subeshi to use in that region though.

As AS, I usually do my archer recruitment by region anyways, picking the best relatively close option.
Levant/Mesopotamia- Syrians
Western Iran- Persian Heavies
SE Iran- Archer/Spearmen (vs HAs) or Reg. Persians
Armenia/Kappadokia- Caucasians
NE Iran/ E. Steppes- Subeshi
E. TransCaucasus- Skythians
Chersonesos/ Dacia- Bosphoran Heavies
Egypt/ Greece- Kretans
and of course India- Indian Archers (these I do ship around more widely, AP melee weapon= Epic Win)

all these guys are capable archers, I do this regional thing to facilitate the replacement of casualties (it's pretty difficult to ship Subeshis to the Levant, takes forever and they end up missing the battle).

im playing as the romans and i am wondering what archer i should use: i controll all of gaul and numidia and parts of greece
so i can get celtic archers greek archers and numidian archers, which one is best?

From those archers the best would be the numidian, i think. Toxotai are really crappy. I don't know how good exactly the numidians are, but perhaps you would be better off with Iaosatae, who make decent slingers.

On Sardinia and the other small island beside it you can hire as mercs those Balaeric slingers that are the best I have found anywhere in the world. Merc Cretan archers should also be rarely available, and are worth snatching up. Of the three you mentioned, I would also go with the Numidians, I think they have a really nice missile attack rating, don't they?

the toxotai can eat their own faces, I'd say you hire mistophoroi toxotai kretekoi.

Which archers and slingers have the longest range?

That's really my only criteria for them, since the only times I use missile troops is when I'm on defense, or when I want to draw the enemy into attacking my well prepared line of troops.

The cretans seem like they run out of arrows much faster than everyone else. Is it my imagination?

As Obelics found, best range on foot archers is Saka foot archers with 209. Best slinger range is Rhodians, with 224!!!

I'm surprised Indian Archers aren't some of the best.


I mean, they can whip a buster sword out on you if you get too close.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by russia almighty

I'm surprised Indian Archers aren't some of the best.


I mean, they can whip a buster sword out on you if you get too close.

---

Yeh. 2 units of these per opponents siege towrer on your walls, and they will simply not get in. 2 units destroyed an entire army of mine (playing as Baktria)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Victor1234

Which archers and slingers have the longest range?

That's really my only criteria for them, since the only times I use missile troops is when I'm on defense, or when I want to draw the enemy into attacking my well prepared line of troops.

---

Range is largely an irrelevant comparison between slingers and archers. Slingers might have shorter range, but they'll actually kill things at that range. I've watch the AI do stupid things with their archers, such as shooting at the front of my line troops, and exhausting their ammo getting a handful of kills.

Meanwhile my slingers have decimated their skirmishers and light cavalry before the lines even meet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius

Range is largely an irrelevant comparison between slingers and archers. Slingers might have shorter range, but they'll actually kill things at that range. I've watch the AI do stupid things with their archers, such as shooting at the front of my line troops, and exhausting their ammo getting a handful of kills.

Meanwhile my slingers have decimated their skirmishers and light cavalry before the lines even meet.

---

Sure, I mostly use slingers too, but the archers with fire arrows are useful as well. The AI has a nasty tendancy to charge straight into your nearest unit, even if they only lose one or two men per volley. So, I always have both archers and slingers. Slingers to do the real damage, archers to mess up their morale (those fire arrows seem to do that alot) and draw them into attacking me.

what slinger should i use? roman original greek ones celtic one of numidian?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius

Range is largely an irrelevant comparison between slingers and archers. Slingers might have shorter range, but they'll actually kill things at that range. I've watch the AI do stupid things with their archers, such as shooting at the front of my line troops, and exhausting their ammo getting a handful of kills.

Meanwhile my slingers have decimated their skirmishers and light cavalry before the lines even meet.

---

Personally I like archers more. Slingers due to having AP projectiles are better vs aroured units and seem to be more "solid" killers. However low attack ratings prevent them from doing anything spectacular and "battle-turning" (of course I`m not talking about highly experienced units). Archers are more specialized. They fail miserably against well armoured and shielded targets. However against light troops they are definately more effective. Concentrated fire of 2-3 regiments can decimate light troops before they are able to do anything useful on the battlefield. Aforementioned fire arrows if used in quantity and combined with cavalry charge may break a lot units and start a general rout of enemy battleline.

Of course a lot depends on composition of opposing armies. If you are fighting with greek units vs romans, then slingers would most probably be more useful, as toxotai are crap and won`t be able to do anything vs principes or triarii. On the other hand, when you are in the east, facing many lightly armoured units and having acces to the excellent archers, then bows are the way to go.