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Hello,
i just wanna know, if you use elefants in whatever faction. i for myself like this untis, because they can break wooden palisades and have a nice fear factor, are good cav-killers and if they have bows, they are also good archers.
melee is diffrent. i only charge with them, when the mainbattle has started for a while. they are my reserve for the "hammer".
if not protected they are vulnerable and very expensive.
I used them extensively in my Illyrian and Italian campaigns while playing as Epeiros. Most of the battles they didn't really even do anything, aside from standing at my flank. The fact that I FIELD elephants was enough for the enemies to have their morale sink.
No, never.
yes, when I can afford the buggers. I know from facing them, that, whencharging, you're basically f*cked, even if you have phalanx. Romanoi are good because almost everyone has javelins, which are very effective against them.
I certainly do. I've even enabled their recruitment as Makedonia and they proved to be extremely effective against my western foes, provided that I used them correctly.
Maion
year, javelins are there nightmire.
thats why i´m very affraid to use them to early in the battles. later on, most enemy units don´t have time to reaked.
also the epirotes one are really good for fast village-rumbling, because most of the rebeltowns don´t have stonewalls.
as seuleukid i like to use these elephantes kataphraktoi indikoi against the steppe panzers. they mostly absurb the fist contact (when no phalanx available).
Yeah, the Kataphraktoi ar real giants... I mean I once saw a Seleukid army with 2 of 'em, as well as Argyraspides, Pezhetairoi and some very good cavalry and I immediately retreated my forces from Mikra Asia... It's like I have a fear from them, however more powerful my army may be...
Maion
Nope, I think they're expensive and a waste of time. I've got lots of better uses for the slot in my stack.
Only as a political and prestige weapon!!!
They are very useful to communicate some basic idea to your foes!!! :beam:
I've never used them, but plan to do it anyway in small quantities, since they are incredibly expensive.
I used them but only against AI full stacks packed with heavy infantry.
I group elephants with cavalry in one big wing.
Then they charge, cavalry is sweeping all units that can danger elephants, elephants wheel on the level of enemy line and start to run along enemy line. Any unit that doesn't rout after elephant charge is finished of by cavalry charge.
In seconds whole enemy army is fleeing in panic.
They are terrifying weapons. One army with those beasts can annihilate whole enemy military force in few large scale engagements, virtually without any need for reinforcements from home ( since casualties in such army are minimal ).
Yeah, basically that was the reason why I conquered all of Italia single-handedly with just my Faction Leader and his one army with a unit of Elephantes Indikoi:2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by LorDBulA
Maion
kinda off topic, but can a mod correct the spelling on the title..? It's really jarring to my eyes =/
I use them as a prestige object/unit for my faction leader's and faction heir's stack. Like strategos Haxios I usually keep them safely in the backround, just close enough for the fear effect.
Whenever I can afford them. I like to roleplay with how I use them by having them only in the 'royal armies' of the megas basileus and his heir when I play as Arche Seleukeia. Like Flavius and Tollheit I also think of them as prestige units that reflect the wealth and power of my empire.
Oddly enough I don't use them too often in my Baktrian campaigns despite being so close to India, and having so much income from mines. Regardless of the faction if you know how and when to use them they can make your armies invincible.
i´m Sorry! but english is not my first language:shame: but i do my best...Quote:
Originally Posted by satalexton
just tried to correct f to ph... doesn´t work...
I LOVE elephants.
I don't always use them, because of availability and/or cost, but they can singlehandedly turn the tide of any battle if employed right. The Seleukids Kataphraktoi Elephants are even more unreal, since they are quite as vulnerable to missile fire.
At the height of one of my Seleukid campaigns, I had an army of nothing but their Elite Spearmen, Cretan Archers, and 2 units of Kataphract Elephants. It completely anihilated ANYTHING I threw it against. I doubt I'll ever field a more powerful army as any faction.
Using them as a cavalry screen does work, and is effective sometimes, but I think they make a "hammer" better than anything else out there. The destruction a full charge of elephants does to a tightly packed group of infantry is amazing.
Only when I am facing an enemy that is spamming stacks of heavy infantry and cavalry. Because of their expense I want to be certain that they are going to be needed in multiple battles of a single campaign.
I use them as a psychological weapon, whenever those punks threaten to rout my lines..that's if i have money to make them.
I do use them, but rarely.
I limit myself to 1 unit in the Basileus' army stack, mostly using them as a psychological weapon and an "attacker of opportunity" ie if the battle flows as to put the ele's into position for an "enfillade charge", I let them loose, otherwise I just put 'em close enough to the battle lines to scare the crap out of the enemy. My use of them is more of a "prestige" roleplaying aid than anything else.
I also do the same thing as Pontos with the Harmata Drepanophoroi (chariots), and as the Arkhe Seleukeia, the Basileus gets the ele's and the Heir gets a unit of chariotry. Also, the Hypaspistai and Elite Thorakitai ONLY get assigned to royal armies or Satrapal armies led by an Hetairos general, and only if that Satrapy is one of the major ones ie. Mikra Asia, Egypt, Makedonia, or one of the "heartland satrapies" (Babylonia, Syria...not sure which ones exist in game, have only ever gotten the Babylonian title in that region)
sorry for the ramble, but that's how I "role" (play).
I never use them, since i find elephants far far too easy to kill in my current campaign as blue death. A few pointy sticks here, a shower of javalin there, a bit of flaming arrow for luck, and they're all gone.
In fact, I took those Indian cities by making the elephants run amok and trample up most of their own men in their cities using flaming arrows...
I would like to use them, but i am a cheap bastard and have yet to recruit a single unit.
Elephants are great for use in a phalanx battle. Try the historical battles, in particular the ones available for download in the sticked thread above in the main EB forum. When the enemy phalanxes are engaged, elephants can just tear right through their flanks. Inevitably, friendly troops will be lost, but the stunning effect and rout from a proper elephant charge is simply well worth it... The violence is gorgeous!
:yes:
In my more recent campaign, I'm going to recruit a unit of elephants as soon as I am able. Btw, I tend to avoid the Cataphract elephants. I just see them as being too much...
As infantry commander I use them mostly as anti-cavalry guards or when the battle is going badly and I need a gamble.
Yes, they are great.
I did the same thing in my Lusoatanna migration. They had 2 elephant units standing together. One was the general, so I flaming arrowed the other one. They run amok, instantly kill the general :beam:. Also, I had 1000 skirmishers, which helped for cleaning up the enemy.Quote:
Originally Posted by satalexton
Honestly I don't think I've used elephants in EB yet.
Never really played any faction that had access to them.
Nope, I don't do elephants. Too expensive for me, and not worth the trouble. Too difficult to manage too, they're loose cannons.
oh gosh, yes...
I'm now going to spam them against the Ptolemaioi after the battles for Antiocheia and Tarsos they made me face...
Hypaspistai and two stacks of elephants take are of absolutely ANYTHING they can send at me...
i actually managed to surround 3 phalanxes with the hypaspistai, and sent in the elephants into the middle... Killed every single person in there... ANd then there was the time i locked a ptolemaioi elite phalanx with my hypaspistai from their front and left, and sent in my elephants to gore them from the right... and there was the time... i could go on and on... Put simply, these guys are the best
Doesn't TW Fanatic's phalanx-chariot-elephant mod solve the problem of weak elephants?
Or is this already incorporated into EB 1.1?
nope... it just kept the name not the actual effect in elephants...
I'm not sure if I understand. So the problem of low-hp elephant and chariots is still unresolved in 1.1?Quote:
Originally Posted by ||Lz3||
Do I like to use elephants? See the historical battles thread. I find them vastly overpowered in human hands (and underpowered in the AI's hands for that matter).
I only us them when I've got enough money:book:
Elephants are a bit like Harmata Drepanephora. If you don't use them recklessly, they can be awesome.
I can never quite work out how to use these. How do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hax
HD---enemy--->
<---enemy----HD
repeat
do not attack, just race through and watch funny flying enemies, terror and fear.
I use chariots against cavalry:2thumbsup:
Elephants are great. That's why I like playing as the epeirotes.:smash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by panosha
I use elephants to race right thru the enemy lines and race back then I sent in chariots and race thruQuote:
Originally Posted by Tollheit
until sometimes they rout just seeing the elephants and chariots!!
When they sent in heavy cavalry I sent in the elephants and chariots to slow them down then send in
spearmen to wipe them out!:knight:
I wonder how elephants work against chariots.
I think they all dieQuote:
Originally Posted by Hax
I don't think so, but now I'm determined to find it out myself!
Maion
elephants crush chariots it's no contest that is unless one elephant dies and the rest of them go amok, killing other chariots, who then go amok:laugh4:
Does anyone else notice that elephants that go amok are a lot stronger than usual:skull:
Yes, they then have the strength to kill your own men in addition to the enemy's :beam:. Also, they then keep moving all the time instead of stopping in the center of a unit.
elephants are a pathetic excuse for 3200+ upkeep and 13000 intial cost, all it takes is 2 b fighting some strong inf and peltasts and they get slaughtered, as archers they barely do a thing, and they run amok as soon as i consider fighting or charging with them, took me a while 2 realize why my fiances started so horrifically with the apriotes with tht riduclously priced unit (time to edit the export_descr_unit i think):yes:
haha yes tht the only time they did damage on my game!...shame it was 2 my own troops:no:Quote:
Originally Posted by panosha
yesb ecause their cute. you know i once made an army of only elaphants and i killed allmost an entire carthage army
I do but in very, very small amounts (not more than one for every second army and only by the time I am getting a 40k income). My two main roles for them are to act as instant battering rams and to lower the morale of the enemy without ever engaging in the actual combat. They are just too expensive and difficult to replace. However, my every army has three highly experienced spies and one assassin attached to it, so the gates are always opened by the spies (who have a higher than 100% chance opening the gates together).
My favorite elephant tactic is to combine them with all of these units: galatian wild men, scythed chariots, flaming arrows and artillery when possible to make the ultimate intimidation force. All of the above mentioned units affect the enemy morale and when playing as the Seleukids, the enemy routs (at full strength) upon contact with my troops. They are so demoralized by this that most of them do not even have time to take losses before they rout, leading the other units with them. Even if the enemy does not rout right away (such as if the enemy army is made up of elite or very experienced units), they still rout right the second after their general dies, on whose death I concentrate all of my efforts. Numerical superiority even further demoralizes the enemy ("distraught over the number of enemies"). Just be sure to have plenty of light cavalry to pursue such a massive rout.
I use them only as a special deluxe unit in my main army when my i've got economic stability, if used correctly they can turn the tide of a battle, they'r great for taking care of cavarly and ther's nothing better than an elephant full charge agains a phalanax's rear when it's busy fighting your own phalanax.
Perhaps you need to consider your value as a general, pitting them against these kinds of troops. Elephants are special, and are good for special situations. They can certainly pull their weight when used properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries777777
Exactly. Do not ever pit Elephants of any kind against javelin-armed troops.
I keep armoured Nellies on a flank, but kept back, and protected by heavy cav, and missile troops.
When the enemies main line is pinned against mine, and their missiles are no longer a threat, my heavy cav and Nels come out to play. Basically clear the flank, by hitting at full charge with Nels, closely followed by heavy cav.
When the flank is clear, line up the Nels to charge from the side, right along the enemies now fixed centre, again heavy cav in close support, and watch their entire line break, with the exception of the odd die hard elite unit.
Nels if guarded against missile troops, and not allowed to get caught up in melee(keep em moving, if attacking a long line, keep clicking on the end of the line) despite their high cost, they are the most powerful unit on the battlefield(even better when on silver chevrons) and rather spectacular to boot(there's nothing like the smell of trampled bodies in the morning).
By the way, why do the EB elephants have only one hit point? I was very disappointed to see that. They are very hardy, but the armor that they have is surprisingly low. Is there any hidden stats that make the elephants so strong? Armored Indian elephants have only 20 defense and 1 hit point, yet they are much harder to kill than a unit with identical stats.
Eh? I'm pretty sure Elephantes Indikoi [the normal ones] have 30 armour.Quote:
By the way, why do the EB elephants have only one hit point? I was very disappointed to see that. They are very hardy, but the armor that they have is surprisingly low. Is there any hidden stats that make the elephants so strong? Armored Indian elephants have only 20 defense and 1 hit point, yet they are much harder to kill than a unit with identical stats.
Elephantes Indikoi:
crew: 1 hp, 20 defence (14 armour, 6 skill)
animal: 4 hp, 31 defence (24 armour, 7 skill)
Elephantes Kataphraktoi Indikoi:
crew: 1 hp, 20 defence (14 armour, 6 skill)
animal: 4 hp, 37 defence (30 armour, 7 skill)
Very right. I've only used them extensively in my Romani campaign, but they've been worth their weight in gold. The Sweboz don't seem to like the beasties, it seems. . .Quote:
Originally Posted by bovi
I can't wait till I can afford one of those nifty Elephantes Kataphraktoi Indikoi in my current Baktrian campaign.
I am confused! How can the crew and the animal have different stats?!? Or are both of the stats simply added together? The EB units list states that Elephantes Indikoi have 1 hitpoint and 20 defence but now I see that this was just the stats of the crew, which makes sense because elephants are so sodding hard to kill. Still, why don't they just mention the combined stats? After all, the crew cannot die before or after the animal dies; they die at the same time! Please help!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tollheit
crew can die before the elephant does. As to why they aren't combined. You'd have to ask CA. We didn't design the stat system. We just use it to the best of our ability to represent what we try to represent.
Foot
the crew as in the archers on the elephants? does that mean if the crew dies, that elephant stops shooting arrows..?
Geez, I never had an elephant crew die before the elephant. Ever. How can that possibly happen. Is the crew more likely to die under a missile attack since the non-ranged weapons can't reach them?
Same with me. But sometimes when you have a reduced unit, in the next battle they may start with as many elephants but less archers on them, so i'm sure they are seperate entities for the game, which makes me think it's theoretically possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus
Btw, i can easily live with an elephant unit that doesn't lose its elephants :yes: but i remember in vanilla i once had a unit of chariot archers and when the battle began, they only had charioteers... that wasn't exactly what i used that type for :wall:
Man, i can hardly remember vanilla :dizzy2:
i confirm that. sometime no archers left on the towers, but still a lot of elephants in the unit.
Thanks! :yes:
Elephants, when used correctly are awesome! Just let the enemy waste there javelins and arrows and your good to go rampaging. Plus by then the enemys moral is lower from continues fighting. A charge from the rear and you will watch even the most elite either fly in the air or run with the tails between their legs. But ofcourse, make sure you are economically ready to handle these guys. I absolutly love them. (I've got triple silver chevroned ones)