Strategic Decision

Okay guys, I could use a little advice from you war veterans. I'm doing a Tokugawa campaign (1580). No Dutchies on my shore yet, so no guns for now. Here's the current situation:

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...wacampaign.jpg

I'm thinking of giving Totomi to the Takeda, who have been harrassing me the moment I took Ieyasu out of the province. Doing so will preserve the army I have stationed there, which could be used to conquer the badly defended rebel provinces to the west. Ieyasu could defend against the Takeda and kill pretty easily.

Good idea? Or should I stick with Totomi and let those Takeda horses batter against my spears for a while?

I keep Totomi in my camps. That big, tall hill is much easier to defend than other areas, and the big clump of woods at the foot of that hill = many dead Takeda cavalry.

IMHO, it's much easier to defend than Omi which is where the next series of attacks will probably fall.

And besides, I hate giving up provinces that give unit bonuses.

How did the Takeda get Mikawa, btw?:inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai

I keep Totomi in my camps. That big, tall hill is much easier to defend than other areas, and the big clump of woods at the foot of that hill = many dead Takeda cavalry.

IMHO, it's much easier to defend than Omi which is where the next series of attacks will probably fall.

And besides, I hate giving up provinces that give unit bonuses.

How did the Takeda get Mikawa, btw?:inquisitive:

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Takeda overwhelmed my one-season temporary garrison with about thousand troops. Guess he had very good intel on that one, since I made sure that the province only would've been underprotected for one measly season..

Heh. That sucks, Wasp. :no:

So did you try to fight for the province then, or did you just hightail it out of there?

I withdrew my troops from Totomi, and destroyed all the (pretty much high-end) infrastructure. I used the cash to build up the new core provinces of the Tokugawa clan, which once were occupied by Oda forces. Ieyasu wasn't really bothered by the rebels and quickly took a large chunk of land:

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../Tokugawa2.jpg

To my surprise, Takeda pretty much left me alone. I had a few loyalists in my old provinces who I used and am using to create some distractions along the eastern front.

In the west, Shimazu and Tokugawa forces are skirmishing, but it seems Shimazu has to divide his troops against Mori and Tokugawa armies. My plan is to slowly take more Shimazu land without taking too much risks. Hizen is my best developed province at the moment, so pretty crucial. Still no Dutch traders, by the way.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../Tokugawa3.jpg

The first +1 honour Warrior Monks are getting produced to bolster my eastern armies until we can develop the necessary infrastructure to get some Heavy Cavs in. Monks, Heavies and Musketeers are probably going to make up the elite core of the Tokugawa army when we're ready to establish our Shogunate!

[Edit] Osaka castle is my first objective, because it will give me a nice border plus some pretty good infrastructure around the Kyoto-Osaka region.

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Takeda overwhelmed my one-season temporary garrison with about thousand troops. 


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Well, that explains that....probably not much you could do:dizzy2:

Looks like your strategy is working out so far......but unfortunately, even though you destroyed the infrastructure in Totomi, the 'huge' castle remains and will probably be used to quickly rebuild. And I've seen more AI cheats in this area than any other: that of constructing dojos without the proper prerequisite buildings:furious3:

That is a very sore subject with me, as I've always felt you should be able to destroy, or at least heavily damage a castle when you abandon it. Even stone ones, particularly once the gunpowder level is reached.......packs kegs of gunpowder around the underpinnings and..................BOOM!

Without seeing the whole map, it looks as if Oda is not much longer for the world......I'd lay in the weeds and grab Mino at the first opportunity, as it's almost as easy to defend as Shinano......and a line of Owari-Mino-Echizen will be a tough nut for Takeda to crack until you've solidified your Kyushu holdings.........:juggle2:

"Still no Dutch traders, by the way."

I've had camps where they didn't show up until after 1600, even though I had plenty of ports-of-entry......which is why I never wait for them, anymore......I secure an armory along the coast and go straight for a gun factory....which means even the Portuguese will do. Turning Christian is not a problem for me because I rarely use WM, and the cathedral income has saved my butt on more than one occasion.

Well, Takeda got Mikawa when I wasn't planning on them getting that province, so I was pretty glad that the loyalists could wreak some havoc on that province, if only temporary. Indeed, you should be able to weaken a castle at least a few levels (or even one), but alas, that's the way it is (I would've loved a diplomacy system which emulated the historical situation; for example, Ieyasu who gets the Kanto for his old provinces).

Oda is indeed nothing more than two provinces without infrastructure; they do have Toyotomi though (thankfully he didn't spawn in a ashigaru unit). My main problem is borders and amount of troops/infrastructure. My current strategy is pretty much building/turtling in the east and carefully expanding in the west. But maybe you guys have other suggestions? The Takeda-border sounds like a good plan as well, but I'd need more troops for a manouvre like that, I think.

I can't really think of any particular advice to give, as you're already doing pretty much what I would in your situation. Just keep moving westward, take over Shikoku, and eventually move into Kyushu and link up with your provinces there. It's regrettable that this will probably necessitate the destruction of the Shimazu, but I think it's your best plan of action right now. :yes:

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Originally Posted by Wasp

Takeda overwhelmed my one-season temporary garrison with about thousand troops. Guess he had very good intel on that one, since I made sure that the province only would've been underprotected for one measly season..

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It's important to remember that in STW/MTW the AI can see the moves you're going to make and can react to them accordingly. This is why it will leave an emissary in a province for years on end and then suddenly pull him out when you decide to target him with an assassin. It's also why the AI often inexplicably moves in reinforcements to a province on the very turn you try to invade it. In short: The AI cheats.

Martok, indeed, once the two fiefs are linked, the game is as good as over and the Tokugawa will reign supreme. I think I'll stick with careful planning instead of the risky, at-the-moment decision making I used (but I think my position was a bit improved and further away from the Takeda horde.

Cynwulf, that's a shame.. sometimes I think it would've been nice to see an army marching towards a castle, so you could intervene or help. Now you'll have to plan and be pretty lucky to help your allies in a battle.

Interesting development: Mori has pretty much surrounded most of my lands and went in for the kill at two provinces: Yamashiro, where Ieyasu was stationed; and Lord Mori himself (who is now of -2 rank, the poor bugger) stroke at Omi.

Both provinces killed around 600 of Mori scum, while Mori only managed to kill a bit under hundred in both provinces. Basically, he spent most of his army in a risky move and now has a lot of land and virtually no troops or able generals to protect it. Tokugawa forces are going to strike next season with pretty much everything.

Hopefully I'll be able to link east and west before there's serious opposition from Takeda and others.

No screenie yet, sorry. Will get that later ~:)

Interesting. I suppose Mori decided to try and hit you before you became too strong? Not a bad idea, really, especially since you weren't fully "settled" into Oda's former lands.

Yeah, which I suppose was a fine strategy, if only he had chosen his keypoints more carefully. Assaulting Ieyasu himself without a superior numerical advantage?

Anyway, I started the counterattack and Mori didn't fought once. I think he's going to concentrate his troops around his core provinces before the whole thing falls apart. He does has two heirs now, so I think I'll let Lord Mori himself live for a while. His many defeats aren't really inspiring. However, I did trap him in the western part:

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../Tokugawa4.jpg

New, updated map of Japan:

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../Tokugawa5.jpg

We're advancing pretty quick, gaining at least one or two provinces per season. Also extended my eastern border into Mino, since it has more favourable terrain. It does get me closer into Takeda-Uesugi territory, but my generals are skilled enough to protect that border for now. Uesugi assassinated ol' Lord Mori and immediately offered me an alliance. Either they wanted to give me a nice present, or they want to pick up my lands after the new, capable Lord Mori crushed me.

The new Lord Mori is a two or three star general, but he's holing himself up in Nagato, which is fine by me.

Nice move = and now my piece of advice.
You got Owari and Mino - defend it well and on this stage don't attack Shinamo (everyone rush at you).
On west take Bitchu and Hoki and you can stop - force Mori/Takeda (I'm not sure who is there) to casefire (if they still exist). They will be fighting with Shimazu and you... find good place to sea attack - maybe at Wakasa.
Same time train Legendary Geisha :) With this lady you can kill daymio per daymio.

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Originally Posted by KrooK

Nice move = and now my piece of advice.
You got Owari and Mino - defend it well and on this stage don't attack Shinamo (everyone rush at you).
On west take Bitchu and Hoki and you can stop - force Mori/Takeda (I'm not sure who is there) to casefire (if they still exist). They will be fighting with Shimazu and you... find good place to sea attack - maybe at Wakasa.
Same time train Legendary Geisha :) With this lady you can kill daymio per daymio.

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I won't expand to the east yet - my plan is to unite my lands; eliminating Mori and Shimazu in the process. They're both weak and it'll be a matter of time before I control the whole western side of Japan.

I'm not a big fan of using Geisha's; I'll just get one to protect Ieyasu.

Lord Mori is dead! He finally mustered enough courage to attack, but was beaten by the more experienced Tokugawa general whose name escapes me at this moment.

His samurai became ronin and that should make my unification a lot simpler. Also, to add to the joy, the Dutch finally arrived at Nagasaki and we immediately began constructing trading ports all over our lands. In a few years, we should be able to mass produce musketeers to counter the Takeda cavalry.

Meanwhile, Uesugi and Takeda are battling for Shinano, constantly draining each other's reserves. Hojo, on the other hand, is building up, I think. I'll have to dispatch some spies.

Latest map: we unified the whole west! The last Shimazu province is being subdued as we speak ~:)

Hojo did some raids near my borders, which is actually a good sign since it means there's no stable situation around Takeda, Uesugi and Hojo. If we choose the right targets, this could become very easy ~:)

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../Tokugawa6.jpg

Outstanding, Wasp! It looks like Mori's demise has indeed made things much easier for you. :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Martok

Outstanding, Wasp! It looks like Mori's demise has indeed made things much easier for you. :2thumbsup:

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Thank you!

The Hojo are annoying me though. They've taken Owari from me, but I'm winning their siege battles so far. Since all my recently conquered lands now have Dutch trading posts, I can mass produce (literally!) musketeers for the numerical advantage. If I have enough money, I think I can make about twenty units per season.

So, I guess this campaign is as good as over. It's just a matter of time ~:)

I think I'll do a somewhat more in-depth journal topic for my next campaign, if you guys are interested.

This is really cool - thanks for posting your ongoing war. I'd love to see more in future.

It's interesting that you chose to show the strategy map rather than the actual battles, but it does make it much easier to see 'the bigger picture' and what you're aiming to do.

I like the fact you chose Imagawa and aimed to reunite your lands. It added a motive to the strategy.

Thanks, Wilbo!

I played a couple of turns and Hojo destroyed both Takeda and Uesugi. Since I had an advantage, it only took some time before Hojo had to surrender. The Tokugawa Shogunate was established!

I'll probably start a new one today, stay tuned and thanks for all the support ~:)

Play Oda 1530 on expert - this is really funny.

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Originally Posted by KrooK

Play Oda 1530 on expert - this is really funny.

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While I do think that'd get us interesting results (and my head!), I think I'll choose a clan in the 1580 period. I do need to practice more with the gunners, and I was thinking of using a kensai as main character for the journals.

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Originally Posted by Wasp

I played a couple of turns and Hojo destroyed both Takeda and Uesugi. Since I had an advantage, it only took some time before Hojo had to surrender. The Tokugawa Shogunate was established!

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Congratulations, Wasp! ~:cheers: So what year was it when you won?

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Originally Posted by Martok

Congratulations, Wasp! ~:cheers: So what year was it when you won?

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Oh! :embarassed: That's a good one. I think, 1606 or 1607? I played with the 40/60 requirement, so it was slightly earlier than a full conquest.

Please continue with your war stories! I find them very entertaining. Love to relive STW.

Heh, I didn't know I had such a large crowd! I'm going to start a Shimazu 1580 campaign, upgrade the Sword Dojo and build a Kensai to use as main character ~:)

Intresting campaign. Owari+Mino+Echizen/Wakasa is a brilliant line of defense, but to be honest I'd never use it. I would've probably went east instead of west. However, this worked out well. I'm surprised none of the eastern clans went overpowered and gave you a big challenge.

Well done. :2thumbsup:

Thanks, Drisos. Once I finish my MTW Venice campaign, I'll probably do the new campaign story I was talking about ~:)

Cool! :medievalcheers: You're referring to the Shimazu campaign you were planning?

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Originally Posted by Martok

Cool! :medievalcheers: You're referring to the Shimazu campaign you were planning?

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Jup! I'll probably have the time for it soon ~:)