Compendium: (under construction)

-UNDER CONSTRUCTION-

Askthepizzaguy presents
The Compendium: Written in Blood

This guide is under construction. And by under construction, I mean I'm discussing possibly planning a meeting to think about the probability of ever getting started on it. Or perhaps slightly further along than that. This is the planning phase and comment thread. What progress I make will be made public here. You can feel free to comment, because this thread will one day be locked and forgotten, replaced by the actual guide itself.

If you'd like to comment, feel free to post, or send me a private message or email me at askthepizzaguy@yahoo.com



Message to visitors:

Quote:

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Greetings, fellow Orgahs and Citadel lovers. I've been wanting to build this for a long time, and I believe I finally have enough general knowledge and experience to humbly contribute. While general campaign strategies, some very good guides, and a vast databank of M2TW specific facts have been created and stickied for reference, I think there are lots of unclaimed territory out there for a complete strategy guide. Credit for the vast knowledge so far goes to all modders and skilled computer experts who have done the tedious work of disassembling the game piece by piece to gather all the raw technical data about the game and its components, and Orgahs like Econ21, Honga, and Frogbeastegg who have done amazing work writing guides and assembling opinions and facts from hundreds of orgahs in convenient one-stop formats for all to enjoy.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=185 (Guides for all factions)
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=72109 (Econ's FAQ and tips, the ultimate resource)
http://totalwar.honga.net/ (Honga's massive databank on unit and faction stats)

What is there left to write about? From a technical standpoint, not much. Everything you'd want to know about the inner workings of the game has been dissected, extracted, and splattered all over the operating table for some time now. Working, viable strategies for winning are posted all over the Citadel and all over the M2TW strategy guides section. Is there room for anything more? Something unique? I'm crossing my fingers and hoping so. I'm reserving this space, this thread, in the Citadel, so that I might begin construction on my most ambitious project to date. This is (going to be) the Compendium; a comprehensive and detailed strategy guide for the Medieval 2: Total War game.

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Here is a preview of what I am attempting to do.

Proposed Table of Contents:

1. The Unit Guide:

Detailed description of the different types of units in Medieval 2: Total War, their strengths, weaknesses, abilities, and a rating for their effectiveness in given tactical situations, including but not limited to: Seige offense, seige defense, field offense, field defense, garrison/public order, blitzkrieg (quick seige situations against smaller garrisons), hills, forests, and bridges.

This differs from the current databank on units, which is totally complete in terms of facts, but does not (to my knowledge) go much further beyond making stats public. I believe there is room for improvement on showing units' strengths, weaknesses, when to use, when not to use, tips and tactical hints, as well as fitting all of that into an overall campaign strategy.

Much like pawns on a chessboard, your units have limitations. Knowing those limitations does not mean you know how best to use these pieces. Your army can have all it's basic statistics displayed in front of you, but without some idea as to how to use these pieces, that information is less useful.

The Unit Guide is not a copy of other people's painstaking work on showing you the detailed stats of every unit in the game. This particular section won't even be differentiating much between similar units from different factions. What it will do, it will go into more depth on what your units are good for, what they are bad for, and how best (in my opinion) to use them.

No complete strategy guide would do better without a second opinion, however, and I would like to include strategies from others who are experts in areas I am not.

I have already all but completed work on this part of the guide. Amazing, I actually started something and finished it. I am now in the process of making this completed work even more complete.

2. The Faction-Specific guide

Having covered the general strategies and uses for different types of units, now I would be inclined to delve deeply into the particular factions themselves; their SPECIFIC units, and show how their army is unique, which units are unique, powerful, or otherwise special, etc. But it will not focus solely on the armies, it will also cover suggestions on how best to use these unique armies in given situations, as well as discuss various possible gameplay strategies.

Blitzing, turtling, diplomatic, economic, and other more balanced campaign strategies will be discussed at some length here, for each faction. The faction specific guide will take the raw data about each faction, and add the best elements of tactics and strategy that people have come up with and I have personally tested, and throw in a splash of my own unique character.

For example, when discussing England as opposed to other factions, I will begin with a restatement of their recruitable units and their specific stats, but then I will discuss which units are their strongest bets, which units fail to live up to the standards I keep, which units are best for certain tactics England is sure to want to use, and give a summary of how all this ties in with England's general campaign itself.

It all begins with the units. If England is Longbow-heavy and a user of sharpened-stakes, but lacks pikemen, javelins, horse archers, or a variety of cavalry, that suggests strong and weak points, which suggests certain tactics are called for on the battlefield to best cover those weaknesses and best take advantage of their strengths. That means that certain campaign strategies will be more useful to England than they would be for other factions, and it also affects how England will interact with other factions on the battlefield, and their starting position and campaign goals will also influence how England must likely expand.

For each faction, a different strategy is called for. Different tactics are better executed, and some aren't. Some friends become enemies, and some enemies become friends. Some factions become a priority, others are downgraded. Some units are called for, spammed to the max, others are neglected or even advised against for use on the battlefield.

England is not a crossbow-using faction for the most part. Though they can recruit mercenary crossbows, they will not make up England's main forces, nor will they likely influence strategy. See where I am going with this?

Beyond warfare, certain factions will have different campaign priorities, such as expansion, defense, diplomacy, crusades/jihads, and economic growth. The Holy roman empire can afford to turtle and defend, whereas Russia cannot afford to sit in their starting province and wait. Certain factions may wish to take advantage of the gold in Zagreb, others the ivory near Arguin and Timbuktu. Others, the amber in Russia. Some, the Italian textiles. Some factions do well by spamming priests and causing disorder, and will easily handle an agent war, while others struggle to perform those kinds of actions against same-religion neighbors with nearby capitals and lots of castles.

It comes down to units, starting position, and the possibilities you are given. This part of my guide will expand from those initial points, and hopefully add something useful, unique, and novel to the knowledge found here at the Org.

I have already done massive amounts of work for England and France in the faction-specific section, mainly surrounding their units. I will be returning to this part to finish the campaign and strategy sections. More progress... amazing.

3. The Campaign Guide

This will be my complete how-to guide to campaigning itself. From starting the expansion of your tiny nation into a sprawling empire, to managing your finances, planning and executing a war, managing your troops and generals, using agents effectively, when, how, and why to do just about anything you can do while on campaign, crusading/jihading, blitzing, turtling, using diplomacy, battling the Mongol horde, dealing with one human opponent, dealing with a group of human opponents, etc.

Everything that is generally applied to all factions on the highest, campaign/strategy level. Believe it or not, I actually do know a thing or two about turtling, and I apply the skills I gained from blitzing to enhance that strategy, and vice versa. Diplomacy is surprisingly effective at the beginning of a totally un-diplomatic bloodfest.

There are also "war" tactics which are specific to the campaign map, such as using navies, forts, spies, assassins, setting ambushes in forests, pincer movements, blocking bridges, forcing sallies, and blitzing vast empires before they can blink an eye. These will all be covered here.

4. The Blitz guide

I have a fair amount of expertise here. This guide will be all about lightning-fast offense with basic troops in unfavorable situations fighting tirelessly at breakneck speeds without rest or reinforcement.

Even if you don't blitz, some of the tactics and tips gained here are useful, as I have been told many times by self-described turtles. However, some of these tactics will be more for blitzing "competitively" or for the fastest possible victories, and will not apply to regular campaigns.

5. The Duel guide

How to spar one-on-one against a human opponent, with Europe as your dojo. Fans of my duel campaigns will have seen these tactics in action. I wrote a duel guide a while back, but deleted it.

6. The Hotseat guide

Everything I've learned from my fellow orgahs about facing large amounts of human opponents in a confined space, most of it from getting my severed head handed to me after another shocking defeat. Obviously I'll be consulting with more knowledgeable players for this section, not that I don't have a few tips to offer.

7. Modifications to M2TW Guide

This section will discuss the most popular, the highly recommended, and the most official mods for the game. There will be a separate subsection for each individual mod. I have vast experience with Broken Crescent, Lands to Conquer, the Long Road, and Kingdoms. I have some experience with others, and am even considering my own Mod for vanilla which beefs up the AI's aggressiveness, overall strength, and sends a Mongol Horde at thrice the total strength at you on turn one.

All of these things will take time, but if I have a place to write it, place it, update it, and rewrite it, I can make progress, finish a section, and move on. This is the only way I could possibly finish this project. Here's hoping it won't be an abysmal failure, like so many of my other failed projects. :medievalcheers:

I welcome your opinions, advice, contributions, etc.








signature line:

Great idea ;)
If i could help i would :) (too bad i'm not that experienced lol )

I'm thinking this "Guide" could go to the "Guide" forum :wink:

Quote:

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4. The Blitz guide

I have a fair amount of expertise here. This guide will be all about lightning-fast offense with basic troops in unfavorable situations fighting tirelessly at breakneck speeds without rest or reinforcement.

Even if you don't blitz, some of the tactics and tips gained here are useful, as I have been told many times by self-described turtles. However, some of these tactics will be more for blitzing "competitively" or for the fastest possible victories, and will not apply to regular campaigns.

5. The Duel guide

How to spar one-on-one against a human opponent, with Europe as your dojo. Fans of my duel campaigns will have seen these tactics in action. I wrote a duel guide a while back, but deleted it.

6. The Hotseat guide

Everything I've learned from my fellow orgahs about facing large amounts of human opponents in a confined space, most of it from getting my severed head handed to me after another shocking defeat. Obviously I'll be consulting with more knowledgeable players for this section, not that I don't have a few tips to offer.

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These parts I'm most looking forward to, other topics in the collection have been discussed quite a bit, but for many here on the .org the words 'Hotseat' and 'Duel' are very mysterious. Coming from someone who learned dueling the hard way it would be interesting to see the final products ~D

I would suggest splitting the Hotseat Guide section in two based on Auto-calc hotseats and Played Battle vs AI hotseats. The two really aren't comparable except perhaps in diplomatic terms (But even then you can take a more aggressive line with a nation that stinks at auto-calc than you would in a game where they could fight it out, witness the GHC).

I'm no expert on hotseats, but I'll try to collect my thoughts and put them down in an organized fashion.

:egypt:

@FactionHeir: I don't mind if this gets moved to the guides section, but this particular thread won't have the finished guide. When it's completed here, I'd like to have it locked, then I'll be posting the official guide separately.

I'll work on it and post updates for all who are interested. I welcome feedback especially on the early stuff, so I can change up my game plan for future posts. This thread is going to be my unofficial home page, because I'm always going to be keeping and eye on it and updating it.

I have some college work to do, and then I'm probably going to relax, but I hope to have some serious meat for everyone to chew on by the end of the week.

Keep watching this thread. You don't want to miss it.

I'm looking forward to the unit-use guide. That is certainly missing (in compiled form) from other sites I've read. It takes a lot of trial/error to see that some units are much better than their att/def numbers say.

One of the things I've found in general, is that there are some units whose animations mess up their fighting ability. But with fixes/patches, that changes. But what's really interesting to me is that you have much better results in melee if you do the following:


make a line of defensive units. (High armour, defense skill, etc) doesn't matter all that much what weapons they have, as long as they can take a beating for a while and have large numbers.

Now, on the flanks, use high attack units. Those unarmoured scottish longswordsmen, billmen, anything with a big honking slashing dragging poking weapon. Keep the ATTACK stat high, and they make excellent flankers.

The defenders use all their defensive power on the front, so they are perfect for "melee" melee. But attackers typically have lower defensive power, and they are sometimes badly armoured or shieldless. They are awesome flankers. That affects how best to use them in the field, in seiges, in forests, bridges, etc.

Horsemen do great when charging flanks, and sometimes when charging the rear, but I've found they can escape easier from a flank charge that a 180 degree reversal from a rear charge. They tend to get pinned. Better to use missile cavalry at the rear, to kill flankers and shoot missiles at their line, instead of charging from the rear.

Pikemen are excellent units for some situations, but terrible in others. I cant wait to cover all these things.

Well too bad I deleted my in progress Blitzing guide that I started a while ago when I was still interested in M2TW, it might have been of help.

Hehe thats not a problem, I've got the blitzing part covered pretty well, but I'd welcome a fresh approach if you'd like to offer me any advice.

After losing the Blitzmaster title I am back to the drawing board after all. Gotta have new ideas.

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I'm at this very moment working on my first sample of the unit guide. I hope it meets with the expectations I have, and I hope enough of you find the approach innovative and useful.

The exact content of this sample will not contain much in terms of new ideas, primarily the sample I'm going to show you guys is an example, but it's covering units such as peasants and militia men, so you're not going to see too many surprises there. However, I feel the approach is what needs to be examined. When I post this example, I'd like to invite criticism of the approach and even the content as being useful, easy to understand, and worthy of being published.

I can't guarantee I'll have it up tonight, but that's the goal.

This is a sample of what I have so far on the general unit types guide. It only covers part of the table of contents, and peasant/militia infantry.


Unit Guide

Infantry

Peasant grade- Peasants, Highland Rabble, etc. Light, unarmoured, poorly equipped infantry.
Spear Militia grade- Town/Spear Militia grade. Lightly armed spearmen, militia grade.
Italian/Castle Spear Grade- Medium armoured spearmen, with better combat ability. (Italian)
Light Pike Grade- Lightly armed pikemen, with very long spears and phalanx ability. Poor stats.
Heavy Pike Grade- Heavily armed pikemen, with phalanx ability and better stats.
Light Bill Grade- Billmen (and similar units) with almost no defensive ability.
Heavy Bill Grade- Billmen (and similar units) with heavy armor and better stats.
Light Melee Grade- Swordsmen, axemen, and clubmen with mediocre defense, good offense. See: Norse Axemen.
Heavy Melee Grade- Swordsmen, axemen, and clubmen with better defense, good offense. See: Two Handed Swordsmen.
Light Defender Grade- Sword and Shield men with mediocre offense, supreme defense.
Heavy Defender Grade- Sword and Shield men with better offense, supreme defense. See: Chivarlic Knights.
Heavy Assault Grade- Heavy Infantry with supreme offense. See: Dismounted English Knights.

Missile

Light javelin- Lightly armed skirmishers armed with javelins
Melee javelin- Melee infantry with better stats, armed with javelins and secondary weapons.
Peasant Bows- Militia and peasant bowmen with terrible stats.
Peasant Xbows- Militia and peasant crossbowmen with terrible stats.
Melee Bows- Militia and Professional Bowmen with better secondary weapons and defense.
Melee Xbows- Militia and Professional Crossbows with better stats and defense.
Longbows- Lightly armed Longbowmen. See: Longbowmen
Melee Longbows- Better armed Longbowmen with melee status. See: Yeomen, Retinue.
Gun Units- Musketmen with poor defense.
Melee Gun Units- Gunpowder units with secondary weapons and better stats.
Naffatun- Naffatun and similar units.

Cavalry

Light Lancer- Poorly armoured, but better charge bonus than most. Fast moving, usually. Mounted Sergeants.
Heavy Lancer- Better stats and defense, but still great charge bonus. Mailed Knights.
Light Melee- Hobilars, etc; Poor stats, decent melee, light and fast. Bad charge bonus.
Heavy Melee- Armoured Knights and supreme melee cavalry. Excellent stats and armour.
Light Javelin- Fast moving, lightly armed javelin cavalry. Jinettes.
Heavy Javelin- Heavily armoured melee cavalry, with javelins. Cataphracts, etc.
Light Archer- Horse Archers with poor melee and high speed.
Heavy Archer- Professional Horse Archers with armour and secondary weapons.
Light Gun- Gunpowder cavalry with poor melee.
Heavy Gun- Gunpowder cavalry with excellent melee.

Artillery-

Ballista- Anti-infantry impaling weapon.
Catapult- Area attack anti-wall weapon.
Trebuchet- Area attack anti-wall weapon. Superior to Trebuchets.
Mangonel- Gunpowder based Catapult.
Bombard- Area attack, very long range missiles.
Serpentine- Anti-infantry impaling weapon. Better than Ballista.
Grand Bombard- Area attack, very long range missiles, better than Bombard.
Culverin- Area attack, very long range missiles, superior to Grand Bombard.
Basilisk- Ultimate Area attack weapon, superior to Culverin.

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Situations:

Main Tactical Scenarios:

Garrison Defense (Garrison)- Free, competent militia defenders. Are they cost effective, good defenders?
Garrison Offense (Strike)- Useful in attacking militia defenders. Are they cost and battle effective versus smaller garrisons?
Professional Defense (Defender)- Professional Defensive Force. Can they hold back a serious army?
Professional Offense (Siege)- Professional Offensive Force. Can they take a well defended fortress?
Field Offense (Open O)- Professional Field Army. How do they handle open battlefield combat, as an offensive force?
Field Defense (Open D)- Professional Field Army. Can they defend themselves on the battlefield, en route to an engagement, holding back an attacking force with no walls around them?
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Specialized Tactical Scenarios:

Hill Offense (Hill O)- Good for assaulting hills?
Hill Defense (Hill D)- Good for defending hills?
Forest Offense (For O)- Good at assaulting forests?
Forest Defense (For D)- Good at defending forests?
Bridge Offense (Bridge O)- Good at taking fortified bridges?
Bridge Defense (Bridge D)- Good at fortifying bridges?

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Infantry

Peasant grade- Peasants, Highland Rabble, etc. Light, unarmoured, poorly equipped infantry.

Garrison-........6 ******
Strike-...........2 **
Defender-.......1 *
Siege-............1 *
Open O-.........1 *
Open D-.........1 *


Garrison Defense (Garrison)- 6 Stars ******

Peasants: Cheapest castle defenders, good wall unit. These units can be spammed, easily replaced, upgraded, can gain experience, and are good for public order. All in all, not bad for a bottom of the barrel unit which exists solely for public order concerns. In a pinch, they can be used as a fighting unit.

Town Militia: Free town defenders, better wall unit. Any kind of militia unit serves better as a garrison than other units, merely for the fact that militias are free army units whenever they are used as garrison. They can fight well, be replaced easily, and are usually upgrade-able. Why not spam an entire army and use it as a garrison? You'd be foolish not to. Town militia are basically the same as spear militia, except they dont have the anti-cavalry bonus. Their stats are poor, but enough of them can defend a city for free, which frees your entire professional force to go smash some heads, or assist in their defense.

Garrison Offense (Strike)- 2 Stars **

Useful in moving siege equipment and taking casualties cheaply.
Stats pretty terrible, but easy to replace.
Town militia and peasants are basically a poor man's army filler. They take casualties and do menial tasks while your better troops fight heroically. Don't send them to take walls or the city center, you're just hurting your own morale and losing money. Still, cheap cannon fodder has its uses even in the most professional force. If youre going to take casualties, why waste money on good troops?

Professional Defense (Defender)- 1 Star *

Stats completely terrible. Only good for manning walls, and even then, worthless.
Professional defense is for professional defenders. These guys, even when spammed to the max, cannot hold a settlement from any serious invasion. They can delay the enemy from taking the settlement perhaps until reinforcements arrive, and that is all.

Professional Offense (siege)- 1 Star *

Useful in moving siege equipment and taking casualties cheaply.
Stats terrible, and only useful as meat shields.
If you're going to assault any seriously defended place, you're a fool to bring town militia. They can take arrow hits for your better troops and fight archers and artillery, but what else could they possibly do?

Field Offense (Open O)- 1 Star *

Hopelessly defenseless against archers, cavalry, artillery, and infantry. If they are upgraded, and spammed en masse, they could theoretically hold a line against bad troops for a short while, while your flankers destroy them. But you should slap some armor on them, really.

Field Defense (Open D)- 1 Star *

Terrible against an offensive force. Enemy cavarly and generals will cut them down like grass, and most infantry will demolish and rout them. Why bother? I suppose they are useful in taking cavalry charges and missile fire, so your better troops dont have to. But even then, they rout.

Hill Offense (Hill O)- 1 Star *

Theoretically useful in taking missile fire as your better troops advance behind them. This is where they actually are "meat shields".

Hill Defense (Hill D)- 3 Stars ***

The morale boost and increased fighting power of being uphill makes them useful in defending against archers, formed charges, etc. Being uphill makes them almost competent, but even so... they are better off inside a settlement.

Forest Offense (For O)- 2 Stars **

Many different peasants and town militia get combat bonuses in forests. Useful in blocking cavalry charges and flanking. If you had to ambush someone, they are good for pinning the enemy while your better forces flank them.

Forest Defense (For D)- 2 Stars **

Defensive bonuses for militia and peasants make them marginally useful in holding a line, but not against charges.You need to have better troops to help them, and they will take casualties.

Bridge Offense (Bridge O)- 1 star *

Just plain atrocious. They can take missile fire, but little else. If you need to fight your way across a well defended bridge, why would you bring weak, untrained, useless fighters?

Bridge Defense (Bridge D)- 2 Stars **

Good for blocking bridges, but not for holding the other side. Meat Shield only.
If you shove them halfway across the bridge while the enemy is attempting to cross, you delay their assault and you lose only worthless troops in the process, while your archers wear them down. This trick is actually worthwhile, but the peasants rout quickly.

Hint: Only use peasants/town militia under a Chivarlous general. So what if they die, at least they dont rout quickly under a Chivarlous general, which actually makes them almost useful, and cheap useful troops have a place in any army.

Spear Militia grade- Town/Spear Militia grade. Lightly armed spearmen, militia grade.

Garrison-...... 7 *******
Strike- .........3 ***
Defender-......2 **
siege-...........3 ***
Open O-........2 **
Open D-........2 **

Garrison Defense (Garrison)- 7 stars *******

While nearly as useless as peasants or town militia, these cheap, easily upgraded, easy to replace spearmen can hold a line, defend well, and are perfect for destroying cavalry. Though armoured cavalry will deliver plenty of punishment to these guys with poor attack stats, its a cheap way of dealing with armoured generals and cavalry units. You'll take casualties, but trading a unit or two of spear militia for an enemy general is an excellent trade.

Garrison Offense (Strike)- 3 stars ***

You could do better, seriously. But if you have to kill some peasant archers, slap a ladder on these men and watch them at least get the archers to stop firing at your better troops. Fighting light cavalry or defeating the enemy general, if upgraded and spammed these guys can deliver. You'll take casualties, and there are better troops for the job, but you can win a war with these guys as your only real infantry, if you are strong in other areas. These are your realistic bare minimum fighter infantry. They can't even take a formed charge properly. In the early game, you can spam these and do just fine though. Add armour to make a semi-professional line of spears.

Professional Defense (Defender)- 2 stars **

You have to do better than this if you're going to be defending one of your strongholds against a serious enemy attack. These guys are nearly worthless against professional forces. However, the town square, wall morale and spear bonus they get, plus their cheapness, makes these a good final option if youre running out of time. Realistically, a good commander can deflect a better force with these troops, but not if the walls crumble.

Professional Offense (siege)- 3 stars ***

These guys could be used to defend artillery and archers against a sally force, so I suppose they are useful defenders of a siege force. They are best used to defend your artillery and missile troops until they run out of ammo and need to withdraw. For this task, you can find no better unit. Cheap and effective, and they can be restocked and retrained at the captured settlement, taking the casualties your professional troops can't afford to. However, when it comes to taking defended walls, they are atrocious, fighting armoured troops, even cavalry, they stink, and their morale is too low to be used seriously as offense. Your best hope is to tie them to a chivalrous general with high command and pray it works.

Field Offense (Open O)- 2 stars **

Even in the early game, they are not so great in the open, especially against cavalry. However, with the absence of heavy cavalry, these guys can be used to cheaply chase down horse archers. Spread formation, from one end of the map to another, running at full speed, while your cavalry tries to flank, pin, or force a melee. So, in some situations they can be ok. However, against armour, formed charges, missiles, artillery... anything, really, they just plain stink in the open battlefield.

Don't bother without armour upgrades, then use them simply as a defensive line unit with a chivarlous general and pray some more. Use them to outnumber the enemy. Don't get flanked, and don't rely on them to do the heavy fighting. They can only realistically defend their front for a short time against professional troops.

Field Defense (Open D)- 2 stars **

If you can hold the high ground and avoid being flanked or charged, these guys could delay the enemy. But you're in trouble if youre outnumbered or facing professional forces. I suppose they can deal with the enemy's militia units that they sometimes field, but honestly, they can't do much more than delay the enemy from hitting your good troops. Out in the open, they are too slow and weak to matter with cavalry dominating them, even with spear bonuses.

Hill Offense (Hill O)- 1 star *

If trying to destroy an enemy that's uphill or on a mountain, you're going to do poorly with this unit. I highly advise against it. You'll take missile casualties, and cavalry can charge your exhausted troops and retreat before you can take advantage of the spear bonus. You'll lose men, morale, and the battle itself. Never use these troops to take a hill unless it is absolutely necessary AND you have allied reinforcement.

Hill Defense (Hill D)- 4 stars ****

The spear bonus helps fight cavalry from a defensive position, and if they don't move, the fact that the enemy could have shaken morale, depleted forces, or be exhausted by the time they get to you means you have a fighting chance. This makes these guys look much better than your enemy, and it offsets their weaknesses. You need to spam these guys, but every man on the high ground carrying at least a spear is a man fighting more effectively. You can even take on the enemy general with just these troops if they are fresh and healthy. 4 stars, for this particular situation.

Forest Offense (For O)- 4 stars ****

Most of the european militia spearmen have bonuses in woods or snow. This makes them have a distinct advantage over, say, Muslim units or Italian units in the woods or snow. Even these little volunteer spearmen have some fight in them, especially against cavalry, in the woods. If you're going to set up an ambush inside your territory, and you don't have the funds for better troops, these troops are capable enough and cheap enough and can be recruited almost anywhere. In the open field, these guys have a tough time dealing with cavalry and archers and artillery and the enemy general, but inside a forest those odds are even, and you get the proper bang for your buck that you need from a militia unit. Since these troops are so cheap and always available, if you're in a pinch and you need to fight defensively, you can do well with these militia spears on a hill, in a forest, or behind a castle wall. They can go man to man with professional troops in those situations. In others, they aren't so great.

Any time a militia troop can go man to man with the expensive, experienced guys, that gives the militia troop the advantage. They are cheaper, easier to maintain, re-train, re-arm, and manage out in the field. Ironically, they have some applications offensively on long campaigns when your better troops get depleted and you need reinforcements. Spammed, armoured militia spearmen can add to your force along with professional mercenary troops, while your professional troops made at home are less easy to find.

For these spearmen, however, keep them out of the open field. Use tactical situations to even the odds, or you will take losses.

Forest Defense (For D)- 5 stars *****

See the forest offense section. Not having to move means you can deploy them in a very defensible way for ambushes and allow them to fight almost as hard as trained soldiers in their natural element, woods and snow. When you force the enemy to take the fight to you in the forest, you have an advantage. You can spam these troops and field an impressive force for less money, and they fight effectively. This is the best utilization for these troops besides as defensive garrisons or reinforcements.

Forests hamper archers, horse archers, artillery, and all cavalry. This means the woods-capable spear militiaman looks very good by comparison to the so-called elite troops. Add a chivalrous general and some armour and you're in business for a real fight.

Bridge Offense (Bridge O)- 2 stars **

I wouldn't recommend it. They don't have powerful offensive capability and cavalry doesn't come into play very much in bridge situations. They can't hold their own against better troops. All they can really do is get in the way, possibly taking missile fire in place of better troops.

Bridge Defense (Bridge D)- 3 stars ***

They still aren't so great in this situation, but they can hold the bridge itself for a while, while your archers handle the advancing force behind them. Holding a bottleneck is a good idea, and they do have an advantage against cavalry in these close quarters situations. Holding the other side of the bridge is not such a good idea... the horsemen can and will push the spearmen back, until the bubble breaks and they rout, taking fewer casualties than one might expect horsemen to take from spears.

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Comments welcome.

This is a small part of only one section of the unit guide, which is itself a small portion of the Compendium. It's not intended to be comprehensive in and of itself, but a good starting point for understanding the various strengths and weaknesses of general unit types.

Wow, a very nice and thorough start. This'll be a heck of a lot of work but if completed will be invaluable to novices and intermediate players---and I expect many experienced players will be able to glean a fair amount of useful info as well.:yes:

Wow... this is really good reading. :book: Some job you have started here for yourself, Askthepizzaguy. :scholar:

Okay, good. Positive feedback, indicating the information is useful. I'm encouraged to continue.

There will be FAR more useful tidbits once I get past the obvious in the unit guide section. But I may still surprise you with my analysis of the mundane.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Okay, good. Positive feedback, indicating the information is useful. I'm encouraged to continue.

There will be FAR more useful tidbits once I get past the obvious in the unit guide section.

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Well, it might be some obvious observations there, but it's easier to get the overview when making a structured system over the "facts" like you have done here. I really like it, it's handy. :thumbsup:

Yes, I noticed that when making this guide I would have to make plain and state publicly some very obvious things. The guide wont just be for experienced veterans, so I have to reiterate some common knowledge. The particular data from peasants and town militia would NOT be that surprising for most. I hope to surprise you with the more tactically advanced units.

I regret it will be a few more days before I can add more. But trust me, there will be some very beefy and juicy gems later on which even veterans will appreciate.

Actually, I picked up a couple just from this. For instance, it never would have occurred to me that spear militia could take on a general so long as they were defending a hill. It's not that hard to get the general to charge you, so there are some opportunities there.

Troops always perform better or worse given the circumstances. Elevation differences can really help weaker troops fight better, even bad troops. Look at spear militia for example; If they have a combat bonus in woods or snow, and a combat bonus against mounted units, and have a fighting advantage when uphill, and they can use the schiltrom formation to gain extra fighting and morale advantages, imagine the difference...

Spear militia versus enemy general, open field. Enemy general charges, plows into the spear militia, routs them, and mops up routers. Now put the spear militia uphill, in a heavily forested area, in the wintertime, and have them line up in a defensive formation. The enemy general may plow into you slowly, but you'll hold, and they will begin to lose heavy armoured bodyguards. Soon, the enemy general is slain and they rout.

Spear militia, competent in SOME situations. Be sure to use them where they are useful. Don't just recruit a bunch of units and ship them off to war... recruit the correct ones and use them where they are needed. Weaker troops need a tactical advantage on the battlefield in order to survive.


Also, be sure those spear militia defending a hill have some other units to pin the enemy general down once he charges your militia. That's when you can really make him lose his advantage.

I have a sugestion.

You have explained battle map offenses/defenses but not campaign map ones. So will you put them into the Guide as well? I have some thoughts about that if you're interested. ~:)

Don't worry, I'll be covering in great detail the campaign map in another section of the guide.

I'm busy working to complete the Unit guide section, so that I can do the Faction-Specific guides, and then the campaign guide will be covering that particular aspect of the game as well as many others.

But by all means, share and contribute! Don't anyone be shy about offering ideas. My experience with the game is fairly good, but my perspective is not complete. You can teach me things I don't know.

It's one of the reasons I'm doing this guide... if I can offer up everything I know, then surely people will come along and teach me a thing or two.

This guide will take a long time. It's a side project in my life and I've got a bunch of other priorities. But I intend to keep working on it little by little until it is done.

The spear miltia guide was great. I'm looking forward to the others. When you get to the missile units, I'd love some info on using longbows/crossbows/javillins/gunpowder. A general pros/cons discussions on them would be useful. For instance, I find turkomans to be more useful than desert cav since the cav's javelins are such short range. Then again, they do a lot of damage... something to clear that up =)

Well theres no reason I can't give you a sneak peek now at the content. This stuff takes forever, but I've been working on it when I should have been doing actual work at my job, so that tells you I am committed. To something, anyway.

Javelins and bows and crossbows are ALL different animals. Here's a quick summary of the uses of each.

Javelins

Ok, you know how annoying it is when the Holy Roman empire, France, Venice, or Hungary spams those heavy knights from their castles? They are a pain in the backside.

You only get a few javelins to toss. You run out of ammo quickly. Using them on basic troops is a waste of time. You can't outrange the enemy archers, and even crossbows have an advantage over you. But javelins...

Throw some spears, pikes, bills, or even peasants between the enemy cavalry and your javelins. Let the idiots charge your line, and impale your weaker troops. Now watch as a hail of javelin rain penetrates the armour of the enemy cavalry, impales their horses, impales the enemy general. The commander of the cavalry unit is dead, and the rest wisely shout the order, in panic, to "RUN AWAY!!!".

Javelins are an armoured foe's worst nightmare. Most of these javelins are armour piercing, and they do serious damage against horses. Horsemen are half the size of an infantry unit or less, so if even a third of the javelins do damage, the cavalry unit is toast on the first volley. Dare they wait around for a second volley, and they will be praying to their God as they gallop away.

Javelin cavalry are among the deadliest units in the game. They can swoop in from a distance, come up close, spam a thunderstorm of death against the enemy's most valuable and capable units, and impale the enemy general to death, launch a few more volleys to make sure everything in the area is dead, and then retreat back to safety. Think of javelins and javelin cavalry as your assassins.

Melee? not so much. Outgunning the enemy? Outranging the enemy? Not so much. But killing valuable troops with less valuable troops.... mmmmmmmm... exquisite! Hit the enemy from the sides or the rear, and you are in business my friend.

There is not a unit alive that can withstand more than one volley of javelins from the rear. There's something about being impaled through the back that makes a person want to give peace a chance.

Crossbows

Think of these guys as a kind of javelin unit... they aren't so great at arching their missiles though. On the walls or behind the front lines, they stink out loud. But! Imagine crossbow spam... an entire line of crossbows. A huge, long line of crossbows. Even better, with spearmen, pikemen, billmen, stakes, or heavy infantry behind them. Add at least 4 units of heavy cavalry. Now, disable skirmish mode and watch the fun begin. The enemy advances... their cavalry, if foolish enough to charge, is immediately annihilated by a wave of pointy death. The crossbowmen reload. The enemy line advances, taking severe casualties from the direct impacts of 500 impaling bolts through the chests of the silly infantry.

Now, the enemy archers take aim... but you've sent your cavalry around to harass them, and they keep fleeing or are now caught in melee.

A line of crossbows. A swarm of heavy cavalry. A few units of melee infantry. Watch the fools die... and die some more. The enemy general chases your horsemen, desperate to win the battle... and he too dies beneath a sickening cloud of flesh-spearing crossbow bolts. Armour won't save you now.

Crossbows are almost like... pikemen with really, really long spears. They can spear infantry and cavalry and anything they please at medium range. But they can be outgunned by the enemy archers, or artillery. Harass the enemy long-ranged units with your cavalry, and impale their entire front line with your crossbows. Impale them some more as they advance. Then retreat back, rush in with some melee infantry, and fire again into the fray.

Oh, the death. The pointy, pointy death.

Crossbows work well as a defensive unit, because they must advance into the range of the enemy before they can fire. Let the enemy come to you, and send your cavalry to harass the enemy missiles so they cannot shoot back. Crossbows don't work so well behind your line, or on your castle walls. However, you know what happens when the enemy breach your gates and start swarming in?

Pin the enemy down with some militia spearmen (or better) and fire your crossbows (at ground level on either side) into the fray. So many heavy infantry and cavalry die... and then the mass routing begins. If they don't rout, keep firing. They are pinned to your infantry and cannot reach your crossbows anyway.

Crossbows... need a clear, direct shot at the enemy. Need time to reload. But the first volley of fire is guaranteed to penetrate their armour, and shake their morale. learn to use them wisely, and do not make the mistake of using them as if they were regular archers. They don't work that way.

These are like rooks, in chess. Your archers are like knights, in chess. Archers can fire over obstacles, and can do a good job targeting crossbowmen. Crossbowmen can only fire with a clear shot (accurately), deal serious damage, and aren't so good versus archers. But if used properly, crossbows can be just as valuable as archers, and can do some things normal archers cannot.

Retinue Longbowmen and other elite archers are better, but crossbowmen are worth more than any peasant/militia/semi-professional archer force. They are better against cavalry and heavy infantry.

Archers

Everyone should be familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of foot archers. Foot archers are generally terrible in melee and severely vulnerable to charges. They fight poorly and break quickly.

Peasant archers and medium-range bowmen of all kinds have their uses. They can wear down an enemy that is huddled in the town square, slowly but surely, no matter how bad their stats are. Set to flaming arrows and watch the enemy (seemingly) take more casualties. (This is disputed, but I swear I see a difference, even in the daytime). Low-level archers don't deal much damage. You can almost march your army directly into their line of fire and weather the storm. You will lose troops, but not nearly as many as other kinds of archers.

Archers also fire arrows, which typically do not have the power to penetrate enemy armour, are easily deflected by shields, and usually fire from the front of the enemy, where the enemy can realistically block the arrows with shields and dodging. Also, units taking arrow fire can simply spread formation and take fewer casualties. So what's the big deal?

Longbows. They can outrange enemy archers, crossbows, javelins, and can realistically avoid artillery fire, get in range, and pepper the artillerymen to death. They fire just as well in spread formation, usually have better stats, some can penetrate enemy armour, and can also light arrows on fire. They are the ultimate wall unit, and have tons and tons of missiles.

If you fire from the sides or the rear, or from two different directions, the enemy takes casualties even quicker. They make great units to put on the flanks of your line, to shower the enemy from two ends. Some longbows can place stakes, and we all know their value.

Javelins and crossbows can deal more damage per shot than the archer or longbowman, however they cannot fire as far or as quickly.

Longbow tactic in seiges:

Use artillery to obliterate the walls and towers on one side. Send in some pikemen or spearmen or other defensive infantry unit to pin the enemy down. Make sure no towers can fire at you, and no enemy archers are on the walls. Now, send in your longbowmen, and fire at the enemy from greater range, with more space to spread out your longbows (outside the destroyed walls) and destroy the enemy with just a few units of infantry and a rain of pointy death. Force the enemy to huddle inside the town square, seal off the city streets with pikemen, heavy knights, or other obstacle, and fire into the huddled masses until they all end up in a bloody, impaled heap of writhing bodies.

Pauses for a moment, so you can appreciate the imagery.

Sighs happily.

As for gunpowder infantry, beats me on how to use them effectively. In my opinion, it's a replacement for the crossbow, as their strengths and weaknesses are the same.

Another hot, steamy slice of battle strategy from your friendly neighborhood pizza warlord.

Thanks for the nice but shorter descriptions of the units, I hope the detailed versions come out soon.

I'll just keep tossing out ideas: since terrain matters a lot, especially on VH tactical, how do you make sure you're getting the high ground on the campaign map? There are obvious ones, where you're near a mountain or a bridge, but often it will look like an open plain and one side will be much more advantageous than the other. Do I just need to memorize each square of terrain around my key cities, or is there a methodology?

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Originally Posted by Marauder

I'll just keep tossing out ideas: since terrain matters a lot, especially on VH tactical, how do you make sure you're getting the high ground on the campaign map? There are obvious ones, where you're near a mountain or a bridge, but often it will look like an open plain and one side will be much more advantageous than the other. Do I just need to memorize each square of terrain around my key cities, or is there a methodology?

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Well, I don't think its feasible to memorize the map layouts. It would be just smarter to take a look around in battle deployment and deploy your army so that it would have the most advantageous height advantage

Gogo ATPG! You have all my cheers and prayers.

TevashSzat//
Actually for Vanilla I do memorize key tiles that I can always win with extremely minimal forces: One by Zagreb is very notable.

Nice work, I rarely use Jav's but might use them a bit more.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Crossbows

Think of these guys as a kind of javelin unit... they aren't so great at arching their missiles though. On the walls or behind the front lines, they stink out loud. But! Imagine crossbow spam... an entire line of crossbows. A huge, long line of crossbows. Even better, with spearmen, pikemen, billmen, stakes, or heavy infantry behind them. Add at least 4 units of heavy cavalry. Now, disable skirmish mode and watch the fun begin. The enemy advances... their cavalry, if foolish enough to charge, is immediately annihilated by a wave of pointy death. The crossbowmen reload. The enemy line advances, taking severe casualties from the direct impacts of 500 impaling bolts through the chests of the silly infantry.

Now, the enemy archers take aim... but you've sent your cavalry around to harass them, and they keep fleeing or are now caught in melee.

A line of crossbows. A swarm of heavy cavalry. A few units of melee infantry. Watch the fools die... and die some more. The enemy general chases your horsemen, desperate to win the battle... and he too dies beneath a sickening cloud of flesh-spearing crossbow bolts. Armour won't save you now.

Crossbows are almost like... pikemen with really, really long spears. They can spear infantry and cavalry and anything they please at medium range. But they can be outgunned by the enemy archers, or artillery. Harass the enemy long-ranged units with your cavalry, and impale their entire front line with your crossbows. Impale them some more as they advance. Then retreat back, rush in with some melee infantry, and fire again into the fray.

Oh, the death. The pointy, pointy death.

Crossbows work well as a defensive unit, because they must advance into the range of the enemy before they can fire. Let the enemy come to you, and send your cavalry to harass the enemy missiles so they cannot shoot back. Crossbows don't work so well behind your line, or on your castle walls. However, you know what happens when the enemy breach your gates and start swarming in?

Pin the enemy down with some militia spearmen (or better) and fire your crossbows (at ground level on either side) into the fray. So many heavy infantry and cavalry die... and then the mass routing begins. If they don't rout, keep firing. They are pinned to your infantry and cannot reach your crossbows anyway.

Crossbows... need a clear, direct shot at the enemy. Need time to reload. But the first volley of fire is guaranteed to penetrate their armour, and shake their morale. learn to use them wisely, and do not make the mistake of using them as if they were regular archers. They don't work that way.

These are like rooks, in chess. Your archers are like knights, in chess. Archers can fire over obstacles, and can do a good job targeting crossbowmen. Crossbowmen can only fire with a clear shot (accurately), deal serious damage, and aren't so good versus archers. But if used properly, crossbows can be just as valuable as archers, and can do some things normal archers cannot.

Retinue Longbowmen and other elite archers are better, but crossbowmen are worth more than any peasant/militia/semi-professional archer force. They are better against cavalry and heavy infantry.

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Maybe its because of factions I typically play I usually only use merc xbows (especially early on) I don't find that I get that crushing impact before cavalry charge them.

What i've done early is against stacks that have minimal archers, is place my spear units from a typical line (4/5/6 men deep) into there special circle formation (name escapes me), then put my xbows behind them in the gaps that naturally appeared so they can shoot through them. This gives the xbows great protection and generally don't lift there aim up while not leaving the infantries flanks open. Maybe its not as effective as what others do but its won me fights I never would of expected to win.

Does everyone remember the first historical battle on M2, the English versus the French?

What deflects the charge, besides the stakes, is before you even approach the enemy, a hail of armour piercing missile fire tears these horsemen to shreds. Granted, those were rather good longbowmen, but good crossbowmen or massed javelins can accomplish the same thing, or better; they usually have much more punch than an arrow, and crossbows in particular seem to be very, very dangerous to charge towards, providing they fire at the correct time.

EDIT: Of course, perhaps any missile troop works better en masse. Don't just use one or two... make a line of these guys and watch the missiles fly!

True, some of your late xbowmen might not be able to retreat behind the line in time, but if you spread crossbows lengthwise (helps them all aim directly anyway, no crossbows in the rear...) they can more easily disappear behind a line of spearmen, who take the rest of the charge. Then they can continue firing at a safe distance, providing your spearmen are in a deep formation which leaves gaps to fire into and helps them keep formation when charged.

Best advice of all:

Try a bunch of custom battles, spearmen and missile units versus a bunch of cavalry and infantry. Play around with the units until you get the hang of them, and learn to cause the most damage. Win the battle!

I clearly will need to put a VanillaMod-only strategy section in the Compendium.

FactionHeir, the modifications you made in the version I downloaded slowed the blitz to a steady advance. I commend you for that.


I actually began producing Dismounted Portugese Knights to assist me in battle. There can be no militia spam blitz under your modified game. Thank you... the game is now fixed.

Diplomacy cannot be abused, but it also seems to be broken now. I would have to sit inside my own territory and never attack anyone to maintain relations it seems, but I prefer it that way. I like hostility.

Portugal, after 60 turns, only managed to take Spain, Africa, Italy, and France. I've never been held back like that before. Granted, I am now at a point where my faction is so strong that I fear neither the Mongol or Timurid empires which have gobbled up most of the eastern map. I could tear each of their stacks apart one at a time, and have a jolly good time of it. Now that I have taken Rome and the rest of Catholicism is on it's last legs, I will soon control the Papacy and I will become the unstoppable crusader.

I chose Portugal because I knew the early game would be insanely hard, and it was. Now, in the late game, Portugal's superior late game forces are easily dominating the battlefield, and the portion of the map I control is both rich and easily defensible.

I give VanillaMod (the version I played) a 9 out of 10 stars! :bow:
Can't wait to write the strategy section for it... as soon as I figure out more than one viable strategy!

Glad you like it :bow:

Since I will be without internet connection about a week, maybe I will get around to finishing the map :grin:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Does everyone remember the first historical battle on M2, the English versus the French?

What deflects the charge, besides the stakes, is before you even approach the enemy, a hail of armour piercing missile fire tears these horsemen to shreds. Granted, those were rather good longbowmen, but good crossbowmen or massed javelins can accomplish the same thing, or better; they usually have much more punch than an arrow, and crossbows in particular seem to be very, very dangerous to charge towards, providing they fire at the correct time.

EDIT: Of course, perhaps any missile troop works better en masse. Don't just use one or two... make a line of these guys and watch the missiles fly!

True, some of your late xbowmen might not be able to retreat behind the line in time, but if you spread crossbows lengthwise (helps them all aim directly anyway, no crossbows in the rear...) they can more easily disappear behind a line of spearmen, who take the rest of the charge. Then they can continue firing at a safe distance, providing your spearmen are in a deep formation which leaves gaps to fire into and helps them keep formation when charged.

Best advice of all:

Try a bunch of custom battles, spearmen and missile units versus a bunch of cavalry and infantry. Play around with the units until you get the hang of them, and learn to cause the most damage. Win the battle!

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Guess this was in reply to my post. Took me ages to win that battle :embarassed:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I wasn't backing away from the spikes to give my archers the extra time to shoot while the enemy troops were slowed moving through the spikes

Typically how many missile units do you use? Early on (say < turn 30) using a european faction I only have 4 X-bow in a stack (usually < 12 units in stack till economy is up and running) as most of my gold goes towards replacing infantry to win seige fights.

Maybe this gets more effective as the ages go on, without looking at unit stats I would suspect the effectivness increases due to:

1. Early on units are typically un-armoured or low-armour so difference between AP and none-AP is minor.
2. Early on I think units are typically quicker so cavalry close quicker giving you less shots.
3. The improvement in missile damage over the ages helps more than the defensive improvements cav/inf get (while also potentially being slower) with AP reducing the armour value, skill not counting leaving only shield upgrades that are fully utilized yet can still be reduced by firing position.
4. Better trained troops so lines last longer (not as much death on contact or quickly routing) so more time to move missiles out to a flank to shoot into the rear of enemy troops. Using militia/early low quality trrops they typically die/rout so quick I don't have time to get missiles onto the flank making high shock better.

I remember some of my first games with England, there famous for longbowmen so I made use of them... i'd have 6 to 10 units in my armies, awesome for field fights but I ended up with most stacks having only 5 so I could do seige fights better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TevashSzat

Well, I don't think its feasible to memorize the map layouts. It would be just smarter to take a look around in battle deployment and deploy your army so that it would have the most advantageous height advantage

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My problem comes when I assault an enemy stack and have a couple possible spots and they all look good. Sometimes I attack and find that my entire possible deployment range is below a large hill and I have no choice but to attack uphill. It would be nice to avoid those situations when possible.

any idea on when the guide will be ready?

The Unit Guide is still under construction. Progress is being made, slowly but surely. I imagine I could finish the Unit Guide by the end of next month, perhaps by the end of the year.

It's a LOT of material to cover, and much of it is tedious. However, I'd like to encourage any and all suggestions, ideas, and strategies for the game. Ask me questions if you'd like some specific info in advance, so you don't have to wait.

Asking questions could actually help me get this done faster. Ask me anything you'd ever want to know about Medieval 2, and I shall respond, and much of that will go into the guide. Two birds with one stone, and all.

Just a quick question - are you going to release it as a .pdf? I remember downloading froggys .pdfs for Med 1 and this format works really well.

Another idea i had was for you to integrate "exploit boxes" in the main text e.g. 8 stompo, merchant forts etc etc to break up the text.

I work in publishing (for the same company that does the bradygames guides :creep: - no questions please it's a different division) so I'm always thinking about page layout!

I'll attempt to make the layout readable. That's as good as I can promise.

However, I think I could make it more readable as a .pdf, if I knew how to make pdfs. I will probably release it as a .rtf.

I made the PDF of frogbeastegg's RTW Guide; when this is finished I'd be happy to do the same for this one.

Hi askthepizzaguy, great idea and the guide would be a great help to someone like me who has just come back to have another crack at the game after being completely underwhelmed the first time I "charged" my heavy horse at a group of peasents and died. After reading much on this site I now understand that double clicking does not infact charge :)

I'm still very mixed on what strategies I employ with the game and would really appreciate some tips on the various styles (blitz, turtle and diplomacy) especially the blitz.

I'd be happy to help.

Took a brief hiatus from making the guide, being fired from work and all. But I should be back to work on it some more soon.

Testing out new strategies on the VanillaMod... no longer caught off-guard by the aggressive AI, I'm whipping their emotionless butts each time and learning how to use the diplomacy function effectively again.

Hint: everyone loves gifts, and won't ally with you if they are planning to betray you next turn.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

I'm whipping their emotionless butts each time and learning how to use the diplomacy function effectively again.

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Never thought I'd read that line from you. VanillaMod must be that tough if you're using diplomats for something other than calling a Crusade.

Absolutely it is tough. However, I stopped using diplomacy when I thought it had been (effectively) disabled. Since then I've seen that you can manipulate the AI, and to a great extent.

Notice how the AI is full of cash? Hundreds of thousands of florins...

I know how to swindle 2000 florins out of every faction for every promise to attack a single faction, which adds up to a lot of money... then I bribe the pope and...

Biggest Crusade Ever!