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Like the thread title says, post the things you just "don't do" in a battle (apart from the blatantly obvious, like charging archers into Varangians). Post one at a time to be interesting or throw up a whole list, your discretion. This'll be interesting.
I never:
Engage camels with horses. Never. Ever. Losses aren't worth it. (Alright! Maybe very occasionally, charge a pinned unit if their general is with them. VERY occasionally!).
NEXT!
Never, ever charge cavalry uphill into a wood full of Chivalric Foot Knights... just don't do it. :sweatdrop:
Never undersetimate bashkorts and let them get too close to your mounted crossbows.....if you want to keep your mounted crossbows....:wall:
# Caravel:
Didn't I say APART from the blatantly obvious? :laugh4:
I never:
leave missile units on fire-at-will mode. They just mess up way too many firing orders and before you know it they're chugging arrows into the scrap involving your high-end units or something similar retarded.
Never, ever upgrade your graphics card to a new Nvidia 8xxx or 9xxx series... oh wait you said not the blatently obvious?
Never position your crossbows/arbalests/handguns behind your other units... :book2:
Never, ever engage Kerns with Huscarles unless you have at least one other unit to pin them down first. :wall:
Here's a good one:
Never ever leave for a sanitary pit stop during a battle because you think "things are going swimmingly and it'll take at least 5 minutes for the AI to bring on reinforcements so I might take a crap while I'm at it".
Really. Don't. Before you know it you become so immersed in whatever lecture you have laying around in your bathroom that you totally forget about your poor army, only to return and find your brave men massacred.
lol :oops:
A true tactician leaves his men in such a position that they take care of themselves...
A true tactician doesn't leave in the first place, heh.
And I don't care what version you play, there's no way your forces are able to fight effectively AND autonomously for a good twenty minutes.
Twas but a joke good sir! :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by bozewolf
I've done it actually, but on my old PC at a very poor frame-rate of about 2 fps :laugh4:
I thought you were being cocky :( A downside of the internets lack of intonation, heh.
I've left an army alone in a defensive position sometimes to see what'd happen. AI usually just walks around you and piles into your flank. Not much cop there.
Hi guys,
I wanna play as well! :knight:
Here is mine: Never ever rely upon peasants, because you will only be sorry....
Short of chicken out, bleeding and creating a general rout they aint good for nothing!
Seriously, they will probably do more damage to your army than any good, they
simply aint worth the dirt they are walking on....
:medievalcheers:
Oh fully agreed. Even as cannon fodder and bait they are useless! IMO even as garrison troops they aren't all that.
Screw peasants. Support the movement!
Never fight large battles when you're sober. (Yes, you read that correctly.) ~;)
Actually, when it comes to arbalests/crossbows etc, I sometimes place them behind my spears etc. If there's a nice hill that allows them to shoot over the heads of my other infantry and the enemy has a lot of cavalry. Maybe I'm just lazy, but that way I don't have to worry about pulling the missiles behind a protective wall, as the demoralized light cavalry breaks on impact when they face the spearwall.
Sorry about breaking the "neva eva" -thread...
I never field -3 morale generals... Obvious, though...
Whilst playing intoxicated (a vice that I know isn't the smartest, but hey it's my leisure time) I've often got fixated on one particular part of the battlefield/group of units & returned my attention to the main scrum to find my army scattered, my general fighting for his life & a wall of polearms about to charge into the rear-end of my parked heavy cavalry...
Another version of this is what I like to call the "Prince Rupert": concentrating solely on what your heavy cavalry/knights are doing, co-ordinating the <i>perfect</i> charge/pincer/flanking move, or driving the enemy heavy cavalry completely from the field & wheeling the camera back to find you've only got twelve men left in the centre & a wall of advancing angry infantry rumbling toward your exhausted armoured blokes... D'oh!
Never, ever try to take on pikemen with calvary, not even flanking. Lost too many generals like that.
Never put spears in wedge formation....
Things I never do in battle:
I never ever lose a battle if I have more than 2 units of camels.
To clarify, by the way: Fighting battles when I'm dead drunk isn't any better, obviously (although it can certainly be entertaining). ~;pQuote:
Originally Posted by Martok
However, my generalship does seem to improve when I'm mildly lubricated. It's like the right amount of alcohol relaxes my mind enough so that I become more tactically flexible, and/or more likely to take risks -- risks that are often times successful. (When sober, I tend to be very conservative in my tactics.) :sweatdrop:
:laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithrandir
And a point to the Great High Camel Lord! :2thumbsup:
NEVER underestimate the effect of desert fatigue on your shiny Kataphractoi/insert variant of powerful western knight.
Never,under any circumstances,send horses of any kind against camels,even if they are flanking said camels..
I beg to differ. If you use two nimble cavalry units on one pike unit it can work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokiss
A: use cavalry unit I to lure pikes out of position.
B: When the pikes are away from supporting troops, cavalry unit II rear ends them, and then scambles away before the pikes are finished turning around. Do the silly pikemen form a square and await support? No! They chase cavalry unit II
C: Cavalry unit I rear ends the pikes, and scambles off before they finish turning around
D: etc.
Of course this assumes you have other units to keep the rest of the enemy busy.
This example illustrates my contribution:
Never fight fair, unless no other option presents itself. The technical word for this is tactics.
Yes, spear/pike units can be flanked and destroyed by cavalry but they must be pulled out of formation first and hit from the flank or rear. The best method is to use only the charge and not let the cavalry unit get stuck in melee. So pull them back form them up and charge again. Obviously this doesn't work one on one and you need another unit to perform some feints. If you're taking on a high valour swiss armoured pike prince though you may want to think again. There are always exceptions especially as regards high valour, well upgraded jedi units. This is where the RPS rules start to be become very grey.
fixed:laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Martok
Never use Ghazis as ambushers, they don't hide very well. :laugh4:
Funnily enough I always use them as ambushers, though they might take it upon themselves to charge without orders if that's what you're referring to?
:bow:
I think that's what The Don was talking about yes. You know as well as I that Ghazis sometimes have a tendency to be overly....enthusiastic. ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Caravel
Never charge arbalesters with your precious knights. You think they'll reach them in time, and then the bolts drop them like flies. Nasty.
Never Ever Engage a massively superior force unless you have a death wish.... oh isnt that obvious?
my bad
Gah, that's half the fun: 5,000 Turks vs 50,000 Mongols - those were the days! :medievalcheers:
Never underestimate hilly terrain. Lost too many battles that way.
Also never chase after the Picts.
Things I never do in battle:
- Let my horses go anywhere near Chivalric Foot Knights.
- Leave javelins on skirmish.
- Manage to capture the Pope on the field (in 4 years of gaming!!!).
- Frontal charge Granadian Almohad Urban Militia.
- Use siege engines to attack.
- Send my archers charging in.
- Engage Huscarles units that have more than half-strength numbers.
- Chase missile cavalry with infantry.
- Hold mercs back in reserve.
Ballistas can be useful for an accurate shot into a mass, providing your patient and can seize on the morale hit they take.Quote:
- Use siege engines to attack.
I think he meant he doesn't use siege engines in a battle where he's the attacker since they're fixed and will almost never be able to get close enough to the enemy.
That is something I never do as well. I even limit my missile troops severely or bring none at all if I'm attacking.
Never, ever, trust the pope.
Never, ever trust anyone.
Never believe it when the prebattle screen tells you that you need to defeat the neutral forces if you are to win as well, and endanger your king with the good runner vice when trying to kill them despite clearly not having enough time to do finish the job anyway.
Never forget to account for all your enemies forces.
....hey, what is that coming out of the trees?
Never forget your general when you redploy your defensive army. Especially if this is your 5 star general and he happens to be a foot unit. Especially if the opponent is the Cummans who brought apparently every heavy horse unit they had.
Yes I lost him.
well if u look in other posts i once faced a force that outnumbered me at leas 10-1 i think and i won lol then again it was 1v1v1v1vme lol it was crazy i stayed on the hill and watched for tyhe most part... beat back everyone with my good mix of archers and used my cavs to their peak effectivenessQuote:
Originally Posted by Caravel
thje good old days.... i remember them well
and Ironsword i agree.. the pope is a back stabbin @%@#%(* many times i had to kill that old fool for gettin lippy and over confident
Never forget to shower an 'allied' force with heaps of arrows as they try to put down a mutual opponent, before you finish the job after all their men are dead or routed. ;)
Noted to be used later!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokiss
Never forget to leave your skirmishing mounted missile unit plenty of room to manouevre when you go back to manage another of your units.....
An interesting variation on this that I have employed many times is what I like to call the "Massively overconfident marching headlong thru' the trees toward the main enemy force at the back of the map and walking smack straight into an ambush" gambit.Quote:
Originally Posted by m52nickerson
For best results, make sure you have your heavy horse (even better, your general/emperor/whatever) leading the advance. This works especially well when the dudes hiding are people with big sharp axes...
"****! Where did those Druzhina infantry come from?"
Shortly followed by:
"****! Where did my heavy cav go...?"
Underestimate the Vikings. :cry:
Expecially Huscarles. As a general rule send an army at least 50 times the size, then you may have a chance of winning... :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmic
Huscarles are one of those "speed slider units". you simply point them in the general direction of the enemy and then crank up the speed slider to full and watch them devour the enemy as a shoal of piranhas strips a carcass.
:bow:
Never bring a gun to a swordfight...
I whish I never rushed up the hill because I got bored and wouldn't go the long way round. But I do.
I never bring siege, and I never user peasants. I never engage vanilla HA in melee.
/KotR
:O Engaging vanilla Horse Archers in melee has won me battles! Then again, it has lost me battles as well...
Enagaging vanilla HAs in melee is delicious, if you can catch them. They die in droves!
Using YOUR vanilla HAs to engage others in melee combat is usually an expensive and bad idea, though, unless the enemy units are infantry archers or infantry javelins.
...Or is that what you guys meant?
The "engaging HA's in melee" thing might refer to the futility of chasing them about the field with infantry or slower cavalry? I can't think what else...
Yeah, but it's a cheap unit and sometimes turning the tide of the battle with the morale hit for a successful flank outweighs the couple 100 (if that) gold it costs to train another unit. Plus they're speedy, in case the battle gets away form your main force and (like me) you're ADHD and don't follow.Quote:
Using YOUR vanilla HAs to engage others in melee combat is usually an expensive and bad idea, though, unless the enemy units are infantry archers or infantry javelins.
This is what I meant: I almost always play on Expert. One of the bad things about this, is that the wonderful morale system is a little wasted: If flanked, or attacked in the rear, wavering units should rout, but not on expert, where the AI gets a heap of bonuses. What I have found is that charging with your own HA much more often costs them their life than winning the battle. They are über weak in melee. On other difficulty settings, sorrounding your enemy and charging with HA can very well be worth it. Sorry for this lack of elaboration :bow:
And the other way around, I too, do not try to catch HA with footmen.
/KotR
Never ever think "This is my time - why with one glorious charge, my already exhausted troops will chase the enemy entirely from the field, and thus their hordes of still available reinforcements will also waver and flee."
They won't, and your guys are now too tired to even run away.....carnage ensues, accompanied only by the sobs of a virtual general, and the gentle thudding as said general's head pounds the desk next to his/her keyboard.........:wall:
About the heavy calvary VS arbalesters thing,yeah ,never do that if you value your calvary. The mongols tried this tactic vs the combined fire of 5 of my arbs and the result was many many dead horses..
How many times have I done that? It takes a lot of restraint and forsight to know when the rout is for real. I have often had my exhausted heavy cav surprised by rallying units and/or reinforcements at the other side of the field and utterly destroyed. When in critical defensive battles I tend to avoid pursuing routers all together and set my whole infantry formation to hold position, preferably perched atop a hill. This prevents them from following enemies of their own accord. My cavalry I hold in reserve to protect the flanks and briefly hit routers, but not pursue them.
Ugh. Likewise. Mostly trying to suppress revolting provinces with heaps of heavy cavalry (they really **** those peasants up).
Fight fair with Mongols. Into the woods or over the bridge ye come....
.....and never ever underestimate the Polish Vikings! :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmic
Such good advice - which is usually forgotten especially when playing drunk.Quote:
Originally Posted by bamff
Never think - I'll let my heavy armoured untis rest in the sun in the desert to recover their strength - oops, why are they getting even more tired?
Yeah, I think everyone who's ever played drunk is guilty of "one glorious charge" syndrome...
:embarassed:
Well, Roark... It does not make it any less glorious, it's just not smart and effective that's all... :grin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Roark
:medievalcheers:
Yes... many widows and orphans are made thus.
I always want to end battles quickly so I have to avoid the temptation of just ordering all my units to attack the enemy lines in a heap. This is especially tempting if I have vastly superior units, but it's a good way to get a lot of units killed quickly.
The best thing to do is to use the grouping feature which in this version of the TW engine is supreme; basically say you have spears swords archers a knight general and a bunch of seargents. Now group thus;Quote:
Originally posted by Caravel
How many times have I done that? It takes a lot of restraint and forsight to know when the rout is for real. I have often had my exhausted heavy cav surprised by rallying units and/or reinforcements at the other side of the field and utterly destroyed. When in critical defensive battles I tend to avoid pursuing routers all together and set my whole infantry formation to hold position, preferably perched atop a hill. This prevents them from following enemies of their own accord. My cavalry I hold in reserve to protect the flanks and briefly hit routers, but not pursue them.
control plus shift plus number all together, say 1 for swords, 2 for spears, 3 archers, 4 for seargents, 5 for general. You can have over or subgroups too, say you want a combined version of the general and one seargent use 6. Recall with control plus number. In this way you have a very quick way to access main army components - you can micro individually from picking at the moment of action in the screen to pull a flank charge while all the group of seargents say is on the move.
It works also wonders after the main melee to get your melee troops quickly together or otherwise they scatter as you say.
!it burnsus!
Never engage Turkish, Cuman, GH, or Arabic armies of Horse Archers. At all.
And never bother engaging the home-sitting family army of 7 Royal Knights with a 4 star King, which can normally be found in Scotland, or Denmark. They will tear you up. Unfairly.
Oh and never engage armies in an isolated, last-ditch-defence position, like in Armenia, or Bohemia.
It will have you in tears.
Quote:
Originally posted by Glenn
Never engage Turkish, Cuman, GH, or Arabic armies of Horse Archers. At all.
Why not? Horse archers have this soft texture that makes a nice sound when hit by arrows and bolts. Sit the infantry in woods behind the shooters, and use the fire at will toggle on and off to concentrate fire on horse archers as they close by to stillness for shooting one by one - take the pop corn and enjoy.
Quote:
Oh and never engage armies in an isolated, last-ditch-defence position, like in Armenia, or Bohemia.
Bohemia is the first target to take out as the HRE. First or second turn. They become a nuisance only if left unchecked for too long, because they accumulate heirs. Armenia doesnt even have a chance, whether the player attacks it or not.
!it burnsus!
I couldnt think of any decent "Never" battle anecdotes so i`ll contribute a campaign one.
Never, ever conquer the Byzantine Empire before the Mongols show up :wall:
Never engage a byzantine army led by a 7 star or more Kata general,those things can really be a pain..
I go for the opposite approach. I prefer to secure the choke points and get a strong garrison in place before the Byzantine crumble and let them into the interior of Asia Minor (which causes absolute havoc and can set you back decades technologically). I will then hold on to Georgia, defending against everything they throw at me and attack them in their other provinces and try to cut off and divide their forces.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishazu
There is always a counter to every enemy. I don't see there as being many "never" situations - apart from being vastly outnumbered and outclassed of course. When it comes to Kataphraktoi they are vulnerable to Polearms, AP units (flanking only), javelins and arbalests so it is a good idea to engage them with these until you've taken down 2/3 of the unit's strength and / or pin them with spears and hit them in the flanks with polearms such as JHI, Halberdiers or Chivalric Foot Knights.Quote:
Originally Posted by oz_wwjd
Here's one;
Never say to yourself - "Ah! The age of gunpowder! And I am years ahead of my neighbours.. Well, I'll construct 10 Demi-Culverins, support them with two units of Chivalric Foot Knights - and nothing will stand in the face of my all-destroying line of fire!"
It's all about location, my friend. :bow: Like Caravel, I don't necessarily take out the Byz, but I will make sure to grab Georgia & Constantinople (along with the rest of Asia Minor) and then fortify those two spots like it's going out of style. So long as you can do that, destroying the Byzantines isn't necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishazu
Crossbow/arbalest bolts. Lots and lots of them. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by oz_wwjd
Never run your general in front of your culverins.
I had set up a canon trap whilst on defence; worked very well, the foes centre was getting creamed!
But what's this? A unit on the right is hard pressed! np, the general can support; let's see, that canon just fired so I'll be ok running across the front of it...the general charges down upon the enemy! BOOM!
"Your general has been slain..." Mass rout ensued :furious3:
At least the trap worked:laugh4:
or never let your general and heir stand next to a cannon while it is bombarding the enemy on the other side of a river crossing.