Setting the Influence straight...

I thought it would be good to gather all the bits and pieces of info in regards to Influence in one single place. Setting the Influence straight once and for all so to speak. Influence is hardcoded and thus this is relevant to all versions of MTW, regardless of which it might be. What is apparent is the fact that I personally know very little about the exact values and formulas, exact what to do to gain or loose influence etc. I have never had any problems with it but I thought it might be useful to know about (perhaps others are interested in this as well). Now my plan is that we all try to be short and concise and above all go heavy on the exact numbers and formulas for it. Much in the great tradition of the MTW numerology kind of thing. I’ll start with the only influence-thing I am completely sure of:


1 successful crusade = +1 influence, +1 Piety
1 successful jihad = +1 influence, +1 Piety

What else do we have?

Blitzing everyone usually works :P

I am pretty sure that your monarch gains 1 influence for every 2 provinces conquered in his reign.

-As mentioned elsewhere; relieving a siege of an ally +1 influence.

Helping an ally = + 1 influence

Attacking an ally = -1 influence.

Anybody knows the exact stats for gaining/loosing provinces?

Edit:
Having good stats as a prince makes the new king start out with high influence. I doubt anyone can pin it down into numbers though.

My understanding is that it's +1 influence for every 2 provinces captured, and -1 influence for every province lost.

Losing a crusade is -2 influence?

The best way to avoid having to worry about Influence at all is to successfully invade invade invade...

Or to have a enemy that won't stop attacking you,that works as well..

Hi all, thanks for the replies so far.

Oz & Roark: Guys! No offence but, you are missing the point entirely here! It’s not that I (and probably the others as well) have any problems in getting enough “Influence”, that is not the issue here. The ridiculous sport of blitzing over Europe thing is not a problem, I know all about that and probably most others with me…

What is the problem and point is this; how much Influence do you get or loose if a certain something happens or is done?!? As in how much influence do you get from building a boat? Answer: 1 ship = 0 inflence

What this thread IS about is to gather all the exact numbers and formulas for Influence in one place (if possible), that is what this thread is all about.... Ok? :mickey:


- Cheers

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Originally Posted by drone

My understanding is that it's +1 influence for every 2 provinces captured, and -1 influence for every province lost.

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A province lost to unrest does not give -1 influence. This provides a cheesy option for endless influence, especially with unruly provinces.

Also, the king's starting influence is heavily dependent on his stats.

One thing I've not seen mentioned, and I don't think its a visibly mathematical formula, but...

Owning Constantinople seems to make the influence go up. I can't say exactly how or what, but it always seems, if I take the big C from the Byzzies, my royal line goes positively nuts, seemingly a factory of 6+ star generals, with high acumen as well. Just an observation, however.

While on the subject on the Byzantines, what exactly is the Influence bonus they got? Is it +2 Influence? Just so we sort that out once and for all…

- Cheers

+2 influence and +1 command to the Byzantine Emperor.

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Originally Posted by drone

My understanding is that it's +1 influence for every 2 provinces captured, and -1 influence for every province lost.

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In my experience, it's symmetrical: You get +1 influence for every 2 provinces captured/purchased, and -1 influence for every 2 provinces lost. I could be remembering that wrong, however.

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Originally Posted by Martok

In my experience, it's symmetrical: You get +1 influence for every 2 provinces captured/purchased, and -1 influence for every 2 provinces lost. I could be remembering that wrong, however.

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That looks right to me as well, but you still don't get influence penalty for provinces lost to unrest ~;)

I looked into my old collected 'words of wisdom' from the forums:

Quote:

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Gain 2 provinces +1 influence
Lose 2 provinces -1 influence
Free Allied troops from a siege +1 influence
Complete a GA goal +1 influence
complete a crusade/jihad +1 influence
fail a crusade/ jihad -2 influence (varies)
Fail to win a very big battle -1 influence
Failure to win a few attacking battles -1 influence

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Hi guys, again thanks for the replies.

To me it sounds reasonable with the symmetrical 1 Influence gain/loss for every 2 provinces (besides it seems to comply with the figures stated in the MTW numerology). Anything else actually strike me as unbalanced (but that’s just my opinion).

B.D: as much as I like the good ‘ol scrolls of wisdom. Are you sure about the rebellion thing? I mean, what happened if you lost 2 provinces to rebels. Are you saying that “you” would not get the -1 Influence penalty then? I’m must admit that I’m kind of skeptical to that myself.

Regardless, we seem to have gathered a few things concerning Influence so far. Does anybody have any Intel regarding what happens when “you” manage to headline the “news-cast”, as in most “happy”, “richest” or “mightiest army”-stuff? Do you get any Influence from that? Does anybody have comments on that? So far it is just hunch I got, nothing else.

Secondly, short of all GA stuff. Is there any other thing that creates influence or take away? Any other thing not yet mentioned here?

Thirdly, does anybody have some relevant additional info on the stuff already identified above? I would love to have some solid numbers on lost crusades and jihad. Also what exact penalty do “you” get from a destroyed chapter house/ribat.


- Cheers


EDIT:
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I recently found out that the newscasts don't supply any Influence, so that hunch was sauer and can now be ruled out for sure.
I just thought that this could be interesting for you guys to know. :bow:

Hi again people,

I want to give this one last shot before I give this a rest. Is there any other Influence-stuff that we have missed so far in previous posts (short of the glory goals)?

Otherwise I will start making a scroll of wisdom of my own here…. :wink2:

- Cheers

Diplomatic relations seem to have an impact. Early in the game, I often see small Kings go from 4 to 5 influence without expansion. I don't know the numbers on this, but it seems to need quite a bit of talking with others to gain that extra point.

Also the ingame assassination messages seems to imply that getting your emissaries/agents killed will lower your influence. My own testing seems to support this, but again, it's small scale.

Sorry if this is a bit vague, but we are dealing with something that's hard to accurately meassure.

Probably not mentioned because its so obvious: destroyed crusade/jihad markers count as failed crusades/jihads; influence is lost for each.

I'm not sure what burning down a chapter house does. I have done it and had a civil war; I have done it and had (apparently) nothing bad happen.

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Originally Posted by HopAlongBunny

Probably not mentioned because its so obvious: destroyed crusade/jihad markers count as failed crusades/jihads; influence is lost for each.

I'm not sure what burning down a chapter house does. I have done it and had a civil war; I have done it and had (apparently) nothing bad happen.

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It has no effect unless crusade markers have been produced by that chapter house. If you destroy it with inactive crusade markers in the province and/or an active crusade running, then those crusade(s) will be lost. So try producing about 3 crusade markers and then demolish the chapter house, it's pretty much instant civil war.

Hi,
Another way to add to influence is to marry one of your own princess to your king - when he is still a prince we all know that he gets loyalty but when he is a monarch he gets influence, i think plus one but could be plus two - memory is unclear.

Interbreeding is a very useful tool in any case and if used appropriately there is no need to use the .unfreeze. ever.

!it burnsus!

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Originally Posted by gollum

Hi,
Another way to add to influence is to marry one of your own princess to your king - when he is still a prince we all know that he gets loyalty but when he is a monarch he gets influence, i think plus one but could be plus two - memory is unclear.

Interbreeding is a very useful tool in any case and if used appropriately there is no need to use the .unfreeze. ever.

!it burnsus!

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Have you verified this? Because in my experience, a prince's loyalty doesn't have any real effect on how much influence he'll have when he takes the throne (aside from that both are affected by how much influence his father has/had).

Yes master Martok,
its verified, only that the heir needs to become king and when he marries his sister then, he gets the influence bonus (so it can also be actually seen). If as you say he gets married before he takes the throne he gets no extra influence, just extra loyalty while a prince - this indeed is not transferable.

Its a matter of timing, ie having a royal princess available and a heir that has just taken the throne and also having an inclination for perverse genetic experiments :grin:

!it burnsus!

Effect confirmed thrice more;

marrying your king to a female member of your royal family BEFORE he marries a daughter of famous aristocrat or a princess of other kingdom, gets him plus 2 influence.

WARNING - if your king marries another woman too at the same turn - THERE IS NO EFFECT.

!it burnsus!

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Originally Posted by gollum

WARNING - if your king marries another woman too at the same turn - THERE IS NO EFFECT.

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Apart from a very happy, or perhaps, very stressed king. :laugh4:

:laugh4:

!it burnsus!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gollum

Effect confirmed thrice more;

marrying your king to a female member of your royal family BEFORE he marries a princess of other kingdom, gets him plus 2 influence.

!it burnsus!

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That part sounds buggy. :inquisitive:

You mean? It worked three times in yesterdays camp for me. (french/pocketmod/early/hard/VI-2.01).

Usually the younger the newly coronated king the longer the gap before he finds a wife, so its more safe for the "tactic" to work - distance of princess to king also plays part - i had him choose to marry sometimes when the princess finally reached him and then he only gets the secret incest trait.

Not convinced? Try it yourself. All you need is a Princess available at coronation time and a prefferably young just coronated king. Just send her in to do her thing and your in business.

If the king is very old though you may still not be fast enough as i mentioned - old newly coronated kings choose to marry right away (1 turn) many times.

!it burnsus!

I think Ironside means that it may be a bug. If it is, it proves that somehow loyalty and influence are very close if not the same thing under another name... this is entirely plausible. If the king gains two influence from marrying a princess then this proves he's getting what should have been the loyalty bonus that a general or prince would get from such a union. If the king get's an influence bonus from this, then this shows that in addressing loyalty, the bonus has addressed Influence instead. I doubt this is intentional so it must be that a king's influence stat is loyalty under another name. And once a general or prince becomes king the stat get's modified and dealt with differently.

After all there are other bugs in MTW as regards marriages. The Pope for example cannot marry directly but can be married via princesses targeting emissaries. This is an oversight by the developer and as such, technically, a bug. It is open because Emissaries are generic units and the only way to block this would have been to create "papal emissaries" that don't allow this or to hard code it (as they had done with the pope himself). Another means open to the modder is to deny the papacy emissaries and force them to rely on bishops/cardinals only. This is not a bad idea.

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I think Ironside means that it may be a bug. If it is, it proves that somehow loyalty and influence are very close if not the same thing under another name... this is entirely plausible. If the king gains two influence from marrying a princess then this proves he's getting what should have been the loyalty bonus that a general or prince would get from such a union. If the king get's an influence bonus from this, then this shows that in addressing loyalty, the bonus has addressed Influence instead. I doubt this is intentional so it must be that a king's influence stat is loyalty under another name. And once a general or prince becomes king the stat get's modified and dealt with differently.

After all there are other bugs in MTW as regards marriages. The Pope for example cannot marry directly but can be married via princesses targeting emissaries. This is an oversight by the developer and as such, technically, a bug. It is open because Emissaries are generic units and the only way to block this would have been to create "papal emissaries" that don't allow this or to hard code it (as they had done with the pope himself). Another means open to the modder is to deny the papacy emissaries and force them to rely on bishops/cardinals only. This is not a bad idea.

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Agreed

!it burnsus!

I might have misred , but if this only works with your own princesses and not when you king is marrying a foreign princess, then it's really buggy and not just an oversight (that every princess marriage gives a influence bonus, including the incestious ones).

The game is riddled with multiple rare bugs though, so it wouldn't be that surprising.