Best Way to Gain Command Stars

Say that I have a promising young fellow, younger than twenty. He is Green, Sharp/Charismatic/Vigorous... Is there any way I can turn him into an epic commander? The ways I can think of are:

Commanding lots of battles - I did it, but most of my Veteran fellows only get a single or two command stars.
Building a Temple of War - No recognizable effects, though I had one of them get a hopeless case of anger that was quickly reversed. Don't know if Temple of War impacts it.
Studying in Academies: The more the better, it seems, though practical experience shows that generals will mostly become pedants and lovers of beauty, so it's not good at all for Command Stars. The "Practical" trait is a lot more useful, though.

Some Factional tools:

Spartan Agoge
Druidic Training
Etc... I don't know the rest.

So in sum, have you ever managed to get an epic general? How did you make it, and what are your recommendations?

Stars are not that much important in EB... anyway, the number of battles is not more important than the kind of battle (the dificulty of the battle) plenty easy battles will add nothing, some dificult battles will improve your general. The temples and other structures, as far as I know, will not improve your generals. So, my answer would be, dificult battles

Command Stars add to defense and morale, if I'm not mistaken. Besides for certain factions such as Romani it's the key to the Consulship or several of them depending on the amount of command.

Place him on a bridge with some phalagnites and archers :(

Have him come, have him see, have him conquer.

I once had a dull/uncharismatic/langurous Epeirote general who ended up becoming one of the best FMs I had at the time by keeping him in nonstop battle all across the Italian pennisula. By the time he gained the "Seen The Elephant" trait he had six command stars and the good attacker trait.

His victories gained him lots of influence and by the time the Romans were kicked out of Rome all he needed was management skills.

I found it quite hard to get command stars and keep themin EB. That's why I downloaded the command stars and corsus honorum mini-mod by konny. This allows you to gain command stars through certain traits that didn't give them to you before. I find things balanced now (for me). Just fight lots of battles (don't overdo it) and have him attain the Spartan Agoge if you can. Studying in Akademiai may not turn out to be good for him, as it's a sort of contradiction to warfare, if you get me.

Maion

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Originally Posted by Basileos ton Ellenon

Command Stars add to defense and morale, if I'm not mistaken.

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Just morale. So far, no conclusive evidence supports the defence or even an attack bonus, as some people claim. I would really like to know what is the radius of that morale bonus though. Pretty much the only good thing that comes out of the command stars is the fact that they look "real pretty" when you are looking at that certain general. In EB, your soldier's morale is not nearly as important as in vanilla. In RTW/BI units sustained 70% or more casualties and routed all in mere seconds, especially in cav. vs cav. engagements.

I do not really have any problem with command stars. My generals serve usually no more than fifteen and usually only ten years in the military, all of them attaining more than five stars. My average general has 7 stars but only four of my generals has 8 stars. If I actually sent my Faction Leader into battle, he could easily gain 10 stars as he gained his 8 stars by doing nothing except sitting in Roma for his entire life. Despite this, all of my thirty-something 7 star generals have 10 stars when attacking, be it a field or siege battle since just about every one of them has the Confident Attacker and Gate Breaker traits along with the Runner ancillary. I am playing Romani, BTW.

I wonder if other structures like "Field of Games" or high-level barracks also improve the strategy-skills of a general? I realized that academies really help to develop a character but they dont seem to give them command stars.

And about the "Lover of Beauty" thread, I always thought this trait will show up if you keep the character in town for too long so he will become attuned to that and will become rusty...

@Aemilius Paulus: What the... !?!? I have never seen something like that. I wonder what kind of structures your cities had and how you treated your FMs... I once had a very strong Pyrrhos Aikaides (8 stars?) but besides that, my best general in EB was like 5 stars maybe?... :(

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Originally Posted by PriestLizard

I wonder if other structures like "Field of Games"

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No. Field of Games might be a Field of Games in EB, but it actually stands for some RTW building. Take the Auguries building that the Romani have. I realized very quickly that the reason why all of my generals were first becoming "Occasional Drinkers" and then "Likes a Drink" because of the Augury building, which is actually a Tavern building internally. That's why I do not build them anymore and advise all other players to do the same.

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Originally Posted by PriestLizard

or high-level barracks also improve the strategy-skills of a general

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Just about every other building has an effect on a general, but not this one.

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Originally Posted by PriestLizard

I realized that academies really help to develop a character but they dont seem to give them command stars.

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They do. "Understanding of Strategy" and all of the levels of this trait are usually gained from an Academy by a "Sharp" general.

"Likes a Drink" is actually quite good for a general.

And I never had any of my Generals gain that whole command stars. Usually I struggle to make them fight battles with Eleutheroi just to earn some meagre star or two, and then nothing else.

If command stars really not that important in EB, why those rebel generals and family members of the faction you are not playing were given 8 - 10 stars? Just for the auto resolve purpose?

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Originally Posted by Basileos ton Ellenon

"Likes a Drink" is actually quite good for a general.

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No it's not. "Occasional_Drinker" gives your general +1 Influence. It quickly develops into "Likes a Drink", which gives your general +1 hitpoints (wtf ?!?). After some time the "Likes_a_Drink" turns into "Drunkard" trait with a -1 Command and Management penalty. Sometimes that even develops into "Drunken_Lout" with a -2 Management as well as a -1 Influence & Command penalty. The threshold can increase even more, but that is not usual.

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Originally Posted by chenkai11

Just for the auto resolve purpose?

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Yes. The AI factions always auto-calculate since AI does not actually fight the battles in between turns. The command stars help tilt the favor of the auto-resolve in the Eleutheroi's favour when other AI factions are attacking them, thus preventing RTW-style blitzkriegs.

Most of my generals never turn into drunkards, so the added bonus to their battlefield endurance is always welcome. A dead general can't get command stars, so that hitpoint might often be a great difference.

Where ever I find enemy, I engage. When they attack a city, I engage. I grind them down until the entire army is dead except for my general, then I resupply him. I turn every war into one of attrition and so far it has not failed me in getting every single one of my generals 7-10 stars and the "Seen the Elephant" trait.

So you engage the enemy even if they outnumber you? Aint you risking losing your generals life during battle? And you probably also lose some battles - and losing will probably not help your general to get command stars, right?

having drinking related traits is not that bad for a FM who acutally commands an army, he does not need management skills that much, if he either is so far away that conquered cities have to become allied states, or he is close enouth to send in a different FM.
and the only thing realy good about command stars, is that you don't have to fight evry battle on the battle map. but most enemy generals have simply too much stars to autofight and captains can be easily be defeated with one star or the mere presence of a FM

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Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus

Just morale. So far, no conclusive evidence supports the defence or even an attack bonus, as some people claim. I would really like to know what is the radius of that morale bonus though. Pretty much the only good thing that comes out of the command stars is the fact that they look "real pretty" when you are looking at that certain general. In EB, your soldier's morale is not nearly as important as in vanilla. In RTW/BI units sustained 70% or more casualties and routed all in mere seconds, especially in cav. vs cav. engagements.

I do not really have any problem with command stars. My generals serve usually no more than fifteen and usually only ten years in the military, all of them attaining more than five stars. My average general has 7 stars but only four of my generals has 8 stars. If I actually sent my Faction Leader into battle, he could easily gain 10 stars as he gained his 8 stars by doing nothing except sitting in Roma for his entire life. Despite this, all of my thirty-something 7 star generals have 10 stars when attacking, be it a field or siege battle since just about every one of them has the Confident Attacker and Gate Breaker traits along with the Runner ancillary. I am playing Romani, BTW.

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CA has already stated that defense stars affect the defense stats of a generals entire army and the morale of units within a certain variable radius.

the radius for the morale bonus is (30 m + 5 m * command + 2 m * influence)

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Originally Posted by mcantu

CA has already stated that defense stars affect the defense stats of a generals entire army and the morale of units within a certain variable radius.

the radius for the morale bonus is (30 m + 5 m * command + 2 m * influence)

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Yes, but testing was done by numerous players, and in Ludus Magna with results showing no difference in performance between a unit led by 10 infl. & comm. general and a unit not led by any general. There was a noticeable change in the morale, but the basic stats - defence and offence seemed to be the same.

yes, i'm familiar with those threads in the Ludus Magna. however, most of those tests were done in 2004/2005. Jerome stated that later RTW builds had the affects of command star bonuses changed

and there is no offensive bonus applied; only defensive

Most important are starting traits: sharp(for better leadership)/charismatic(morale boost)/vigorous(more HP and better movement rate). Academies can help but usually they add a lot of traits which make Ur Fm better governor than general. If I try to make epic commander, i choose guy who is sharp/charismatic/vigorous and doesn't have many bad traits-usually he has only basic ones like: green, young etc. Than I make a "tournee" and take best ancillaries from other FMs: doctor/herbalist/chirurg, galloper/runner, archer catpain, armourer, mercenary captain(or I recruit a horde of mercenaries to gain him:):) ), siege engineer( if I want to conquer cities), geographer is good...(I dont know what ancillaries barbarians).If I want to use this general to fight with certain faction, turncoat is good and not so hard to gain. When U have such prepared candidate for hero:laugh4:...FIGHT! The harder battle the bigger chance to improve him, but big number of smaller battles will improve him to; he wil gain blooded trait, veteran trait....etc., and many others: if u will have many defence battles-u will get such bonuses, if U will atttack like mad-it will fruit in such way....Also if U will use Ur FM on Battlefield like crazy, charge with him often, conduct long fights and take big casualties among his bodyguards, he will gain traits which will improve his HP and will boost your army morale. But beware: If u bend over-he will change into bloody berserker:viking:, and thats not good.

Soorry for my english.

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Originally Posted by PriestLizard

So you engage the enemy even if they outnumber you? Aint you risking losing your generals life during battle? And you probably also lose some battles - and losing will probably not help your general to get command stars, right?

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Losing one battle for every 5-10 is a good trade off, especially when you take down 1/4 of the enemies army in the one you lose. The point is to grind them down quickly, because once their armies are all gone or worn down, you can really get the command stars by the rapid capture of their now low garrisoned cities.

I took a green general with no stars to veteran and 6 stars in under 4 years. He had to take 4 cities, destroy 3 more large armies in the wilderness and destroy a couple small groups of enemies but he got the triumphus, hates smell barbarians, warmonger and a ton of other traits and retinue and got him 6 command stars. He also became a veteran from winning 9 battles. From the time I started attacking to the time I returned him back to Rome was under 4 years.

One thing is I only used the original army in his pillage fest and did no retraining. I shipped his army to the west and just burned a path of destruction to the Arverni capital then back to Rome and let every single city he captured rebel or gifted back to Arverni, after destroyng every building :)

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Originally Posted by Gunzak

I took a green general with no stars to veteran and 6 stars in under 4 years. He had to take 4 cities, destroy 3 more large armies in the wilderness and destroy a couple small groups of enemies but he got the triumphus, hates smell barbarians, warmonger and a ton of other traits and retinue and got him 6 command stars. He also became a veteran from winning 9 battles. From the time I started attacking to the time I returned him back to Rome was under 4 years.

One thing is I only used the original army in his pillage fest and did no retraining. I shipped his army to the west and just burned a path of destruction to the Arverni capital then back to Rome and let every single city he captured rebel or gifted back to Arverni, after destroyng every building :)

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Did you generally face overwhelming odds? I'm guessing the battles got harder towards the end, since you didn't retrain your army...

What happened is I created a full stack army and sailed to Emporion. I laid siege to Emporion and Arverni sent a full stack to break the siege. I won the battle and the next turn I killed the defenders in the town and sacked it. I then moved towards Tolosa and faught a small force before attacking and sacking the city. I now had 4 battles won. I then moved towards the Arverni capital, Gergovia, and faught 2 full stack armies, one at a time, before attacking the town and again sacking it. I then faught another small force and attacked Massalia, which had become Hellen, and had I think 14 units in it. I was able to take the town but my army was almost all but destroyed by the time I took it. 9 battles faught, 4 cities conquered and no retraining or mercenary units.

After taking Massalia and bringing a general and some reserve units there to hold the city I brought him back to Rome for his Triumphus. I retrained the army and replaced 2 Principes with 2 Ascensi.

The Polybian Reforms took place in 242 BC so that freed me to move on to Carthage. Since the reforms took place I would now hold every city I conquered so I would take the city and not leave till a general and 6 secondary units arrived to pacify the town. This made it slower but gives me a lot more income.

On to Africa and the destruction of Carthage.

I boarded ship and sailed south and attacked Korali. Upon a relief force arriving in Korali I boarded ship and sailed to Africa and laid siege to Atiqa. Atiqa was lightly defended and fell quickly. I waited for a relief force and then moved the army west towards Ippone. I had to fight a large battle before Ippone, 1 large force with 2 small sets of reinforcements, but I was victorius and I conquered Ippone. A few turns later a relief force arrived and freed me to march again.

I then moved the army south to Kirstan but Carthage placed a large army in between the city and me to block me. I was able to destroy the blocking army and then attacked Kirstan and took the city. My general is currently there waiting for a general and a few secondary units to arrive so I can move the entire army west towards Siga.

The current army in Kirstan has not been retrained or reinforced and still has the original units, though in much smaller numbers after 6 battles.

So far this general has won 15 battles and conquered 8 cities. I believe hes only 31 or 32 having started at age 20.

My Private experience...

Use only one (two or three if required for the next generation) general to take all your fight... never let him command too numerous army... Letting them fought defensive battle on advantageous ground is pointless, use captains to do that... Try to get Alexander-styled offensive

In my Romani campaign, I group one of my young, and military talented general with 1 equites romani, 2 hastati, 4 rorarii, and 2 acensii. If you need large stack of army, let a great army of captain walk behind them with some quality troops, but only group them as one when you really need it to win (not to merely overpower without thinking)... Another factions may well use low class troops, and get outnumbered everytime you fight... note that I use medium battle difficulty, with hard campaign...

Put them as a suicidal (but not a certain suicide) attack force deep into enemy territory and wreak havoc, ambush and capture their towns.... at least you will got high starred general, with poor to non existent influence and managements...:laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

My Private experience...

Use only one (two or three if required for the next generation) general to take all your fight... never let him command too numerous army... Letting them fought defensive battle on advantageous ground is pointless, use captains to do that... Try to get Alexander-styled offensive

In my Romani campaign, I group one of my young, and military talented general with 1 equites romani, 2 hastati, 4 rorarii, and 2 acensii. If you need large stack of army, let a great army of captain walk behind them with some quality troops, but only group them as one when you really need it to win (not to merely overpower without thinking)... Another factions may well use low class troops, and get outnumbered everytime you fight... note that I use medium battle difficulty, with hard campaign...

Put them as a suicidal (but not a certain suicide) attack force deep into enemy territory and wreak havoc, ambush and capture their towns.... at least you will got high starred general, with poor to non existent influence and managements...:laugh4:

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The easy way to do that is (without having to plan so elaborately and all)...play a Saka campaign. You get FM bodyguards and that's pretty much it for a long while. Group 3 or 4 of them together and go on a conquering spree until you can afford units. If fighting full stacks, try to have 2 groups of FMs in supporting range of each other. 6 or 8 Saka FMs vs full stack Baktrian or Seleukid army= Heroic Victory. Do this a couple times and you will get command stars, plus other goodies like + movement and + morale traits. By 240 BC, any FMs above the age of 30 (come of age as opposed to adoptees or wedding candidates) have at least 1 gold chevron if not 2 or 3.

But the command stars only gone to the gang-leaders (who's in charge in the first place), others only got chevrons... (remind me if I wrong)...

True, what I do to give the other kids a chance is put the "high star felons" as reinforcements. Just make sure to position your troops where you expect the reinforcements to come in. This works to give out command stars to as many of your guys as deserve them. If your guys are getting non-fighter traits, those are the ones you want for governors of large towns, and, as Saka, I take most of my adoption offers. Hell, even if the guy is completely useless...so what, he's got a unit of cavalry to use and abuse (and he gets all the dirty and dangerous jobs, if someone dies...better him than a good leader or governor), it's not like you are gonna let him lead the gang or anything.

Gaining commands stars seems REALLY hard for me.

I usually pick out my best young general, below the age of 25 or so and set him up as my Faction Leader. Then, I'll amass a large army and send him with it blitzkrieging through enemy territory. Often I will conquer/enslave as many towns as I can as quickly as I can, leaving a trail of client rulers in my wake.

These generals will often win many Heroic Victories fighting full stacks or double full stack armies in factions homelands. They often get the Seen the Elephant trait. And they rarely get over 5 or 6 command stars. :thumbsdown:

@griffon
your only fault, is to equip them with large stack of the armies all the time, so what's the point to punch down 300 men rebels with 1500 veteran hoplitai? If you re going against 300, split your army so your general only fight them with 150 units... keeping you outnumbered, that was the way to got many stars (but scars as well)

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Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

@griffon
your only fault, is to equip them with large stack of the armies all the time, so what's the point to punch down 300 men rebels with 1500 veteran hoplitai? If you re going against 300, split your army so your general only fight them with 150 units... keeping you outnumbered, that was the way to got many stars (but scars as well)

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I don't fight 300 rebels when I have my full stack Juggernaut. I send it directly at capitols like Rome, Athenai, QarthHadast, etc. I will have MULTIPLE full stack vs. full stack battles with it, often fighting even two full stacks with my single full stack. I get heroic victories, just not many command stars.

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Originally posted by Griffon:
I don't fight 300 rebels when I have my full stack Juggernaut. I send it directly at capitols like Rome, Athenai, QarthHadast, etc. I will have MULTIPLE full stack vs. full stack battles with it, often fighting even two full stacks with my single full stack. I get heroic victories, just not many command stars.

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Are you sure you charge your FM bodyguards to smash enemy line? I think you should try to made an aggresive generals... commanding from behind is great mindworks, but bloody experience in the frontlines are a lot better... it risks your FM's lives though

Look in my old "Of Mail and Men" AAR. Satraces was green before his ridiculous run through the AS, and had 5 stars after (~5 years later). Along the way, he probably fought 10 or so battles where the odds [supposedly] weren't in his favour.

I find the best method to get good generals is autocalc. Yes, you risk losing a lot, but eventually you get unbeatable 10 star generals. Which can actually be bad, because at one point in an old Romani campaign, I had 3 generals with 7-10 stars and they conquered me Asia minor, Egypt, Germania, Gaul, and Britannia in about 20 years at which point I had ruined my game with my crazyness and forced to start again. BTW, the date I ended at was 120 BC.

As much as I love this mod, the command star issue is why I'll be going back to vanilla the next time around (with all the squalor that entails). I'm guessing you have to fight the battles yourself to gain stars, but I only play the strategy map and have no desire to fight each battle. By the time I'm done cycling through all my cities each turn, the last thing I want to do is fight several 15-minute battles.

And if stars aren't that important in EB, then why do all the opposing generals have so many stars? I'll even assassinate an enemy general, just to see the next captain in line automatically promoted to a 3-star general. Meanwhile the hard fought single star general I have will lose that star if he's not fighting every other turn. It's hard for me to think of it as a feature.

I've seen others here post that you can go back to the vanilla system of awarding stars by removing the BecomesBetterGeneral and BattlePoints series of traits, but I wasn't to clear on just what had to be ripped out to do that. Does anyone know if it's easier to get stars with the 1.2 version?

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Originally Posted by maltheus

As much as I love this mod, the command star issue is why I'll be going back to vanilla the next time around (with all the squalor that entails). I'm guessing you have to fight the battles yourself to gain stars, but I only play the strategy map and have no desire to fight each battle. By the time I'm done cycling through all my cities each turn, the last thing I want to do is fight several 15-minute battles.

And if stars aren't that important in EB, then why do all the opposing generals have so many stars? I'll even assassinate an enemy general, just to see the next captain in line automatically promoted to a 3-star general. Meanwhile the hard fought single star general I have will lose that star if he's not fighting every other turn. It's hard for me to think of it as a feature.

I've seen others here post that you can go back to the vanilla system of awarding stars by removing the BecomesBetterGeneral and BattlePoints series of traits, but I wasn't to clear on just what had to be ripped out to do that. Does anyone know if it's easier to get stars with the 1.2 version?

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AI generals get more stars to make battles more of a challenge for the player...

not getting command stars is a really lame reason for going back to vanilla, imo

You can (and must) choose some (who is the right ones) to fight, and some to peacefully govern your cities, so look at their traits and personality, that's the purpose of deepening the trait system in EB...:book:

sorry for my bad english

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Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

You can (and must) choose some (who is the right ones) to fight, and some to peacefully govern your cities, so look at their traits and personality, that's the purpose of deepening the trait system in EB...:book:

sorry for my bad english

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This is exactly why I love EB, you can role play and become more involved in the campaign.

The AIGeneral trait is what adds those extra command stars to the AI generals. Crippling it makes the battles feel a bit more believable.