Paying Taxes

Considering the recent cabinet nominee revelations on failure to pay taxes I was curious about my fellow orgahs feelings on paying one's taxes. The US tax code's complexity is certainly an issue with and cause for some of the skeletons in a political candidate's closet, but integrity, or lack of, is also a factor. Does the fact that some of these rich, connected, and powerful people get away with it, why can't I ?, influence the average person's compliance with paying what they owe? Which of the options best describes your feelings?

I voted that I pay in good faith, which is true, but I also use whatever legal means there are available to avoid excessive tax. I have to pay taxes in four different countries, and it must be said tax avoidance is easier in some than others.

It also depends on the tax. Whereas I'm relatively content to pay company tax on profits as my businesses benefit from the societal infrastructure funded thereby, I'm very unhappy to pay inheritance taxes since my inheritance is both stewarded for future generations and it has already been taxed in most cases. Thus the latter gets my accountants' full attention in the matter of avoidance planning.

I have no idea. I know they take some out of my check and then I get some back.

When I get older I plan to launder the money to the Caymans so the government cant get there ungodly hands on it.

The only thing Don Corleone-senior (mi papa) fears is the IRS. And he instilled that fear into me from a very young age. I don't mess with the taxman, and if a deduction I could by all rights take gets listed as suspicious by TurboTax, I don't take it.

The thing to remember when dealing with the IRS... it's the only time in the American Judicial system you have to prove your innocence. Look it up.

i only pay income tax, and that is automatically deducted off my paycheck, so i couldnt cheat even if i wanted to.
anyhow, cheating is dumb, b/c if you are caught.... in the slammer.

I pay what I owe but try to take advantage of every legal deduction I'm entitle to. That being said, while I don't resent paying federal taxes, what I do resent is paying some ying yang accountant to do my taxes (or spend weeks trying to figure it out myself). I've no qualms about state and local taxes - fill in a few lines, multiply and done.

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Originally Posted by hooahguy

i only pay income tax, and that is automatically deducted off my paycheck, so i couldnt cheat even if i wanted to.
anyhow, cheating is dumb, b/c if you are caught.... in the slammer.

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We all have our taxes deducted. It's the only system in the world where you have to pre-pay, then prove you're entitled to a refund (unless you live in California... ~:doh:)

The way you cheat is when you do the paperwork to prove what you should have paid versus what you actually did, and get a larger refund (or, if you did your W-2 statement correctly, reduce your tax payment).

I'll second Don C's motion. The I.R.S. is a group of people you really don't want to tick off. I had a roommate just after college who tried to get cute with his taxes, and it was instructive to watch them destroy him. I don't know if he ever got that sorted out, considering how ugly it got.

The lemur family gathers all of its relevant paperwork once a year and delivers it to the C.P.A., who makes the bad people go away. The nice thing about spending a couple hundred bucks on a C.P.A. is that if the I.R.S. ever wants to come after you, he has to represent you. He's sort of like a condom on your paperwork.

I don't cheat, but I do take advantage of every possible credit and deduction I can claim, even though I think a lot of them are shady bullcrap, like some of the allowances for travel and vehicles and home offices.

I used to take the high road, until that sweet little rule from a few years back that was meant to help farmers and small businesses buy big, fuel inefficient vehicles and have a large percentage of the purchase price credited back. Great idea on paper, helped a lot of small businesses, but also spurred a lot of people getting Mary Kay accounts, professional licenses they never intended to use and starting small businesses never meant to make a profit -- all for the sake of being able to buy that 80k vehicle and get the cost kicked back to them over 3 years, and having a failing business they could use as a tax shelter to boot. The IRS and the administration knew full well this was happening and nothing was done about it. Now those same people can trade those vehicles in and get another tax credit haha

Anyway, thanks to incompetent NCOs at Ft Sam Houston and flubs at the Oklahoma Military Department, I failed to get reimbursed for about 80% of my travels related to the military and can claim every last penny that I paid out of pocket. This will result in my biggest refund ever, although I would have rather not had to spend the money in the first place.

I honestly try and pay what I owe, but I also rely entirely on TurboTax. If it doesn't pick up something, then I would miss it and never know. My wife, on the other hand, would prefer to pay nothing and would happily lie on our tax forms. This is why I do the taxes.

I pay what I owe, and could probably get back more if I tried, but I just can't be bothered and don't want to take the risk. I had a couple of years where I was able to legally exempt lots of income, so I feel like I'm still playing with house money.

Don't mess with the IRS, tax evasion is how they put Capone away. :yes:

I cheat a little but not much and that cheating typically comes in the form of simply not reporting cash income. I used to cheat alot back when a sizeable chunk of my income came in the form of cash.

I actually know a bit here and there about tax code, having done some simpler returns for folks back in high school as a part of my accounting III class. I get away with every penny I legally can.

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Originally Posted by Spino

I used to cheat alot back when a sizeable chunk of my income came in the form of cash.

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You and the entire population of Brooklyn. It's a freaking epidemic there.

I don't earn enough to qualify to pay tax - so I'll be getting a nice tax refund come July 1st. However, I would always pay in good faith with the best intentions.

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Originally Posted by CountArach

I don't earn enough to qualify to pay tax - so I'll be getting a nice tax refund come July 1st. However, I would always pay in good faith with the best intentions.

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Isn't there an option on Aussie W4's to not pay taxes in the first place if you don't qualify to pay them? :inquisitive:

I get all my federal taxes refunded by the IRS because I make less than my standard deduction, so it is a fairly hard to cheat (I'd have to have the IRS pay me).

That being said I would never cheat on my taxes. Ever. Taking a tax class has taught me not to screw around with the IRS. They can make not paying that extra 500 in taxes into a nightmare.

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Originally Posted by seireikhaan

Isn't there an option on Aussie W4's to not pay taxes in the first place if you don't qualify to pay them? :inquisitive:

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I wish we had that. I'd rather take my money NOW, than in a lump sum the following year.

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I voted that I pay in good faith, which is true, but I also use whatever legal means there are available to avoid excessive tax.

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This also mirrors my feelings, and vote, on the question of paying taxes. One thing my father always stressed to me was paying ones bills & taxes on time, and in good faith.

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what I do resent is paying some ying yang accountant to do my taxes

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This is a major part of the problem with the tax code, and why some people get jammed up. It's so dang complicated and Byzantine that one gets a different result depending on who figures out your taxes. Even the IRS can't agree on or completely understand the tax code. One of my sister's is a CPA and I used to have her do my taxes. However, she is so busy taking care of clients during tax season that she couldn't get around to mine till near the deadline, and I don't like cutting it that close. I like being self-relient so I started doing my own several years ago. I use the TurboTax program mentioned by others and wouldn't think of tackling my somewhat complicated return without it. It's $80+ for the program, but cheaper than an accountant, and I feel I am in control of my situation and understand my investments and assets better.

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My wife, on the other hand, would prefer to pay nothing and would happily lie on our tax forms.

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Yes, my current wife, my second, got in a deep financial hole with a heap of help from her ex over unpaid taxes & credit card bills. We've just about got that slate clean. It was an expensive lesson for her, and she's more than happy to let me take care of the finances & taxes.

I've never had to pay taxes. Never made enough to qualify.

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We all have our taxes deducted. It's the only system in the world where you have to pre-pay, then prove you're entitled to a refund (unless you live in California... )

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Not the only country. For the 8 months I had a real job I got taxes deducted too. And if I ever file a return for 2005 and 2006 I might get that money back.

I pay my taxes with a smile. Seriously. Paying taxes in Norway is incredibly easy for an average employee(gets harder if you own your own business etc), as the state will do it for you. All you need to do is run through a couple of papers to make sure they didn't screw it up or left something out, and you're good to go!

I have stolen from the state though. With a smile on my face and a clear conscience. But I only stole from the King, and that's got to be morally right.

EDIT: oh yeah, our taxes are pre-paid as well, deducted by our employer from our paycheck.

I wouldn't pay a dime if I wasn't rather afraid of the IRS and prison. :/

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

I wouldn't pay a dime if I wasn't rather afraid of the IRS and prison. :/

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So..... You want to privatize the police, courts and armed forces? Good luck with that....

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Originally Posted by CountArach

I don't earn enough to qualify to pay tax - so I'll be getting a nice tax refund come July 1st. However, I would always pay in good faith with the best intentions.

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Same. :2thumbsup:

I send all my paychecks to the irs.gov paypal account, and hope to get some back. So far, so good. I'm still breathing, eating etc. every day.

Fer'instance: today I ate pancit and tamales at work for breakfast because Hector Torres retired. Nice guy. Filipino. 19 years 7 months, military(naval; cook). 19 years, 8 months postal. Equals 40 years federal.

Had a 3-minute, nice little ceremony. Then: eats. No one allowed luch (30 minutes) since it was provided -by employees.

No wonder Hector retired.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

So..... You want to privatize the police, courts and armed forces? Good luck with that....

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Other people can pay for it if they're so excited about it.

I'll dodge it whenever I can but I don't cheat. But to put it mildly, I am somewhat displeased with the amount of protection-money the state demands from me. And I am somewhat displeased with what they spend it on.

Other people can pay for it if they're so excited about it.

So you don't see a need for the 3 things HoreTore listed ?

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

Other people can pay for it if they're so excited about it.

So you don't see a need for the 3 things HoreTore listed ?

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How much is spent on those three? A probably negligible fraction of my taxes. And I don't think we need the military spending we currently fund.

I think all 3 could be cut considerably, but from your tone i took the implication that none of these were nessecary... i mean because if everyone thought like you, or to be more accurate if people widely shared your view and also weren't scared of IRS or prison you basically couldn't afford an armed forces a police force and an army...

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

So..... You want to privatize the police, courts and armed forces? Good luck with that....

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It's tempting when apparently the UK needs two massive aircraft carriers because the DOD can't get Viagra on prescription ("I'm a real man...")

Police and courts are not paragons of virtue either.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

I think all 3 could be cut considerably, but from your tone i took the implication that none of these were nessecary... i mean because if everyone thought like you, or to be more accurate if people widely shared your view and also weren't scared of IRS or prison you basically couldn't afford an armed forces a police force and an army...

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And then maybe we see some changes. In the mean time, while the oligarchy in Washington (and Trenton, for that matter) takes taxpayer money and essentially burns it (and very little on police and courts) only fear of the retribution our masters would inflict will motivate me to pay up.

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

Washington (and Trenton, for that matter) takes taxpayer money and essentially burns it [...]

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Silly AtPG, they don't burn it, they bury it.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Silly AtPG, they don't burn it, they bury it.

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That's how Pittsburgh become known as the Steal City back in the day.

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Originally Posted by seireikhaan

Isn't there an option on Aussie W4's to not pay taxes in the first place if you don't qualify to pay them? :inquisitive:

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Nope. I qualify to pay them, I just am highly unlikely to be able to earn enough to pay them. Casual work means I must pay tax as I go, just in case I do somehow earn enough.