Cuba ban

I recently heard a local pundit on AM radio calling the "quiet" move to lift the Cuba travel restrictions as subterfuge. I would like to know the opinions of the .org.

I think the ban is dumb. counterproductive. childish. dinosaurs. pointless. non-equitable

First off, if you think the restrictions are valid please explain in detail, but you can save your commies- are-evil vernacular because the fact of the matter is that I can travel other communist nations with far less interference from my government, nations who have done far more damage to the world, nations who have directly or indirectly killed Americans, nations where my traveling there is pumping money into the evil communist economy. Russia. Vietnam. China. Anywhere in South America. I might also point out that in addition to being able to travel to those places, we also trade with them. Also, I can travel with less restrictions to places with non-communist governments who nonetheless have hostile intentions towards my nation, both stated and implied, dictators, "elected" officials and royal families. I can travel with less restrictions to nations where Americans are the targets of frequent crimes, even nations where the government is falling apart, nations where the government and police are corrupt, nations that abuse their people and their neighbors people, and with some paperwork, even nations in which we are involved in ground wars. I could also travel to a valid destination in Africa, then go into Somalia, come back and tell Customs I went to Somalia, and nothing would happen to me. If I did that with Cuba and I wasn't a missionary/journalist I'd be screwed.

Second, if you are Cuban exile sympathizer, or even a Cuban exile, I have 5 words for you: why should we care anymore? Sorry about what happened, really sucks for you, but the world still spins. Life goes on. I want to go on vacation, sit on a beach, drink rum and smoke cigars, and I have the money to do it. Why shouldn't I be able to do it in Cuba?

This is actually one of the few things a lot of "conservatives" and a lot of "liberals" agree on, albeit for possibly different reasons.

I sum it up mostly as a bunch of people still butt-hurt over a botched coup. For some it's a pride issue, for some their hopes of power were dashed, for some they or their families and friends were seriously harmed and are still harmed. Don't get me wrong, what happened there was horrible, the place is certainly ripe with issues still today, but again, I can go damn near anywhere else I want. Why not Cuba? Am I missing something?

I am always surprised that America still has this in place - I just don't get it.

Throwback to earlier times. I think it served a semi- to fully legitimate purpose back in the 60's during the missile crisis, but these day's it's just utterly pointless. It should have been lifted long ago. Seems to me this is turning into some ancient Atreidies/Harkonnen-esque feud that eventually no one will know how or exactly why it started, it's just "always has been that way".

Silly and pointless in the modern world...

It made little sense in the 1960's. After all, the USSR just picked up the tab. I don't see the gain there. New President with a working brain - why not drop most of the restrictions in the name of increasing links to increase trade?

~:smoking:

Just the capitalist-imperialists economicaly oppressing people around the world...again.

https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/...licyjd7.th.jpg

There's a mass of oppression in Cuba, such as oppression on information for example.

~:smoking:

While Cuba's regime is quite a repugnant government, that's never stopped the western world from dealing with anyone. There is no longer a strategic objective to be achevied by ostracising Cuba and indeed most of the world has moved on - I can't see any reason to keep it.

The move was acceptable in the 60s after the missile crisis.

Nowadays it is counterproductive, the ban is actually propping up the Castro regime by giving them the "big bad US bogeyman" excuse for all the problems the Country goes through.

Drop the ban right now and open up to Cuba as much as possible....see the people throw that regime down in a matter of years.

I think the ban is maintained in place mostly to score electoral brownie points with the expatriated anti-Fidel crowd.

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Originally Posted by Ronin

I think the ban is maintained in place mostly to score electoral brownie points with the expatriated anti-Fidel crowd.

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And because Florida is worth so many electoral votes :wink:

I love cynicism.

Ronin has it right, IMO. What started out as a reasonable response to Communist hegemony, dissipated after the crumbling of the USSR. Daddy Bush could have 'normalized' relations with Cuba, but bowed to the Miami ex-pats demand to never accomodate Castro, F.

Politicians will need the Cuban ex-pat demographic one final time (before it's irrelevant), for 2012's election. So, my advice is: book a flight for Havana for February 2013.

I'm not even sure they need to wait that long. The electoral map has shifted, catering to the Floridian exiles is not necessary unless you are a Miami Congressman or Florida Senator.

The ban should have been lifted after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Stupid, vindictive, counterproductive.

During both the Nixon and Carter administration there were periods where the U.S. began moving towards normalized relations with Cuba.

However, the state of Cuba decided through its own actions that it was not interested in such a relationship.

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Originally Posted by Yoyoma1910

During both the Nixon and Carter administration there were periods where the U.S. began moving towards normalized relations with Cuba.

However, the state of Cuba decided through its own actions that it was not interested in such a relationship.

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Exactly. Because political expediency is a two way street... :wink:

Another aspect of the US argument for an embargo was that valuable US property was seized and nationalized by Cubans during the revolution, and we'd want reparations for them.

I dunno. That smacks of returning one wrong with another. I don't really care too much. I suspect that if Castro & Co. want to remain in absolute power for long, they should probably keep the embargo going. When Cubans see how they could be living...

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

Another aspect of the US argument for an embargo was that valuable US property was seized and nationalized by Cubans during the revolution, and we'd want reparations for them.

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Yup, it happens. Ask the Spanish, British or any other colonial power.

~:smoking:

A lot of the valuable US property seized belonged or was controlled by the Mafia. I think Ronin hit the mark. Perhaps if Castro will oblige by kicking the bucket relationships will normalize much quicker; until then things seem to be at a :turtle: pace.

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I suspect that if Castro & Co. want to remain in absolute power for long, they should probably keep the embargo going.

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Especially the & Co. part of the equation.

The ban is silly, and counterproductive. Free trade between the two countries will move Cuba more quickly to capitalism than no trade will.

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Originally Posted by lenin96

Just the capitalist-imperialists economicaly oppressing people around the world...again.

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:dizzy2:

Do you get your talking points straight from your local communist party website? Honestly, I'm curious.

Brazilians have better women, Mexicans have better food, Peruto Ricans are funnier, and Dominicans play better baseball and have better cigars.

I have all the latin I need.

I'm not bothering Cuba, Cuba ain't bothering me. However, I do sympathize with those Cubans who don't want to continue to live under the repressive and anti-capitalist Communist regime that is Cuba today. While it is vindictive and hateful, I've got no problem taking it out on Cuba. It's now more symbolic rather than truly effective, but what the heck.

Besides, we're still getting Cubans sailing into the Keys. Tell me which economic system is working and which government is less oppressive.

Drop the ban and like everyone has been saying in this thread, expose the Cuban people to our way of life. :idea2:.

Good bye, Fidel/Raul/Communist Party

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Originally Posted by lenin96

Just the capitalist-imperialists economicaly oppressing people around the world...again.

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You really should finish off posts like that with a quick stanza or two from the Internationale.

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

Another aspect of the US argument for an embargo was that valuable US property was seized and nationalized by Cubans during the revolution, and we'd want reparations for them.

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Valuable U.S property? The main nation that opposes Socialism deserves to have everything taken from it.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

Do you get your talking points straight from your local communist party website? Honestly, I'm curious.

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I don't have one besides small groups of libertarians.

And can you tell me why you defend America?

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Originally Posted by lenin96

Valuable U.S property? The main nation that opposes Socialism deserves to have everything taken from it.

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As opposed to socialism, where everything is taken from the people?

My wife, who is a French national, has just discovered the difference between social and privatized medicine. She was exceptionally happy, even though she had to pay money.

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Originally Posted by lenin96

I don't have one besides small groups of libertarians.

And can you tell me why you defend America?

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Perhaps it is the long standing treaty between the Martians and the U.S.. ~;p

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Valuable U.S property? The main nation that opposes Socialism deserves to have everything taken from it.

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Strike deep into the heart of the beast comrade!

/how many proles died bringing you your computer and internet access

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Originally Posted by lenin96

Valuable U.S property? The main nation that opposes Socialism deserves to have everything taken from it.

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Oh surely that would be too simple. What the rest of the world really should do is deny us uncouth peoples the opportunity to try socialism, clearly the nectar of the gods. You should make us suffer by funding anti-socialist groups so that the people will never know the joy of socialism.

Seriously though; because of our politics we deserve to be robbed? :dizzy2:

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I don't have one besides small groups of libertarians.

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Libertarianism, in the US sense, is the complete opposite of socialism and communism.

Anyways, I tend to agree with MRD. The ban hasn't done much except provide a nice excuse for Castro as to why Cuba is so bad off.

CR

My sister-in-law went on holiday to Cuba a couple of years back. She said it was rubbish. I've no intention of going on holiday to a 'rubbish' country. Neither should you.

The US government has done you all a favour. Think of all the money you've saved.

:yes:

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

My sister-in-law went on holiday to Cuba a couple of years back. She said it was rubbish. I've no intention of going on holiday to a 'rubbish' country. Neither should you.

The US government has done you all a favour. Think of all the money you've saved.

:yes:

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My parents have been on holiday to Cuba twice and they enjoyed it very much, so have other members of my family.

I refused to accompany them out of principle....I sure as hell wasn´t going to go on vacation to a dictatorship, so I can´t speak for the experience.

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Originally Posted by Yoyoma1910

As opposed to socialism, where everything is taken from the people?

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I meant the government, not the people.

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Originally Posted by lenin96

I meant the government, not the people.

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Well it was the peoples land. IRONCLAD LOGIC

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

Well it was the peoples land. IRONCLAD LOGIC

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I meant the current U.S government disapearing and being replaced.

I think this first ,true enlightened communist that I've met on these boards so far.