Must See Thread Over at the Center...

...I hope it is OK to post this here. Here is a VERY informative thread by a chap who took part in today's SEGA Community Event:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=228248

Here is one of my exchanges with him - emphasis added:

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Originally Posted by Barkhorn1x
Good news and thank you for your feedback. Rep to you.

I must ask one more question, tho' - from your comments it sounds as tho' changes are still in progress and yet - the game is due for release one week from Tuesday in Europe. Do you have any reason to suspect that another delay is in store?

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No more delays. The retail version is already done. You'll get the first patch on the 4th via steam.

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Nice find. + imaginary rep!

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It is now possible to save campaign battle replays.

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:daisy: yes.

You would definitely get rep if we had any over here. :laugh4: This is some good stuff, although a lot of it was known (or suspected) already.

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Originally Posted by Sir Beane

You would definitely get rep if we had any over here. :laugh4: This is some good stuff, although a lot of it was known (or suspected) already.

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We've suspected some of this stuff for a while, but it's great to see it cemented in stone.

Also I'm amazed. A patch on day one? Someone's been listening to our complaints! :yes:

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Originally Posted by Monk

We've suspected some of this stuff for a while, but it's great to see it cemented in stone.

Also I'm amazed. A patch on day one? Someone's been listening to our complaints! :yes:

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If they are releasing a patch on day one why on earth don't they just put it in the retail version? Or has that already shipped to shops?

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Originally Posted by Sir Beane

If they are releasing a patch on day one why on earth don't they just put it in the retail version? Or has that already shipped to shops?

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We've getting very close to the day the game hits. Amazon is promising that they will send their copies out ON the fourth. CA may have already sent the gold version of the game out and to try to implement changes now would foul the entire shipping system up.

2 vs 2 custom battles?

Some sort of sick joke?

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Originally Posted by tibilicus

2 vs 2 custom battles?

Some sort of sick joke?

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Ouch! I missed this on my first read through. They can't possibly be serious can they? 2 vs. 2 is puny.

Seems there's always good news and bad news, I was much more fixed on the other, campaign oriented news and must have skimmed over that. 2v2... Hm. Doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room does it? :shame:

Kinda disappointed in that. I used to love playing 3v3s in VI.

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Thamis couldn't give me much information about this, but it seems the game won't be as easy to mod as previous games.
But he said that they would release modding tools of some sorts sooner or later (I hope sooner ^^)

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:no:

CR

Later on the guy also mentions that apparently only the 12 playable factions are available for multiplayer and custom battles.

He also mentions that the 12 main factions have very similar units.

I'm not sure if anything higher than 3vs3 would work for the newest game... maybe the maps were too small? I mean most maps probably aren't wide open plains so it would be really annoying to attempt fitting 6 armies with lined infantry together.

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Originally Posted by Discoman

I'm not sure if anything higher than 3vs3 would work for the newest game... maybe the maps were too small? I mean most maps probably aren't wide open plains so it would be really annoying to attempt fitting 6 armies with lined infantry together.

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The maps are meant to be much bigger than Med 2 though, and I've played 4 vs. 4 on that with no problems.

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Originally Posted by Sir Beane

Later on the guy also mentions that apparently only the 12 playable factions are available for multiplayer and custom battles.

He also mentions that the 12 main factions have very similar units.

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See, I really don't think that's a negative. In STW all factions didn't have similar units, they had the same units but it was still an amazingly fun experience.

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Originally Posted by Monk

See, I really don't think that's a negative. In STW all factions didn't have similar units, they had the same units but it was still an amazingly fun experience.

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I didn't mean it as a negative, just as a statement :2thumbsup:. Indeed it would be odd if the major European powers didn't have similar units, given that they all used the same technology and units at the time. Gone are the days of every man bringing his own uniform and weapon.

Giving everyone the same troops also goes a long way to preventing balance issues between factions.

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Originally Posted by Sir Beane

I didn't mean it as a negative, just as a statement :2thumbsup:. Indeed it would be odd if the major European powers didn't have similar units, given that they all used the same technology and units at the time. Gone are the days of every man bringing his own uniform and weapon.

Giving everyone the same troops also goes a long way to preventing balance issues between factions.

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Ah my bad, misread your intent! :bow:

Indeed it does. While I am pretty bummed we're limited to the "main" factions for MP I really don't mind in the long run, mainly because as you said it will help a lot with balance issues and not having to worry about that one guy who just can't decide which of the fifty he wants to play! :skull:

Lots of good info in there - thanks!

I especially like how he said the demo seemed like old code, and how the game currently looks and runs much better. Plus the fact that there is already a patch lined up for release day to address some of the last minute issues too.

Max 2v2 ?? Oh yeah I got it: improved multiplayer modes right?


CBR

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Originally Posted by Monk

Seems there's always good news and bad news, I was much more fixed on the other, campaign oriented news and must have skimmed over that. 2v2... Hm. Doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room does it? :shame:

Kinda disappointed in that. I used to love playing 3v3s in VI.

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If this is needed true the death of the Multiplayer game will happen before it's even started. 3 vs 3 is the standard format for all clan matches, if you can't have more than 2 vs 2 the game will lack substantial substance.

And it was 4v4 as standard in MTW. We get better and better hardware and somehow we end up with less anyway.

RTW started out with 3v3 max but was changed to 4v4 in the patch IIRC. Maybe this 2v2 thing will change but it just sorta kills MP if not.


CBR

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

:no:

CR

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Won't be as easy doesn't neccessarily translate as less moddable, it just means its harder than before, but its never stopped the community.

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Originally Posted by CBR

And it was 4v4 as standard in MTW. We get better and better hardware and somehow we end up with less anyway.

RTW started out with 3v3 max but was changed to 4v4 in the patch IIRC. Maybe this 2v2 thing will change but it just sorta kills MP if not.


CBR

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Indeed. :no:

I was led to believe maps were going to be much bigger in this version and they were really working hard on the MP.... guess they say that every time. :shame:

I guess its good news that all the MP factions will have similar units, as it will likely force at least some balance, but I don't think 2v2 is acceptable at all.


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You should keep the naval battles small (at least for now) or else they will be lagging like hell (with 30+ ships)

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...I think, that the demo was really really old. It seemed quite outdated compared to the full game.

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This was part of one of his posts which made me feel much better about the quality of the game. :2thumbsup:

I guess I'll just wait for it to get hella cheap on steam.

will patches etc be released anywhere other than steam, i really wanna do as little as possible with steam, but if im forced to connect to download patches im going to be a sad panda

It's the old supply and demand argument. The demo got released to places other then the demo site in a few days, and I'm sure etw patch will follow suit. You can get it on steam of course but i'm sure you can get it else where to.

I only hope CA is being logical. As much as I want a patch i'd rather small 100 or 200mb patches then a 3 gig patch that takes me another 3 days after I get the main game.

If the patch is that big or similiar i'll just skip it till later, or download it into a seperate fill and add it myself.


The news was not that discouraging to me, I knew most of this.

Again the diplomatic, government, tech, trade and other sides have been beefed up to make the game different each time you play it. Rather then i'm going to play egypt because they have 4 new buildings and 10 new units that Rome dosn't. With revoultions, tech, and changing governments I am optomistic that each game will play out quite dramatically different. Similiar to RTWBI (which I enjoyed).

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Originally Posted by Polemists

It's the old supply and demand argument. The demo got released to places other then the demo site in a few days, and I'm sure etw patch will follow suit. You can get it on steam of course but i'm sure you can get it else where to.

I only hope CA is being logical. As much as I want a patch i'd rather small 100 or 200mb patches then a 3 gig patch that takes me another 3 days after I get the main game.

If the patch is that big or similiar i'll just skip it till later, or download it into a seperate fill and add it myself.


The news was not that discouraging to me, I knew most of this.

Again the diplomatic, government, tech, trade and other sides have been beefed up to make the game different each time you play it. Rather then i'm going to play egypt because they have 4 new buildings and 10 new units that Rome dosn't. With revoultions, tech, and changing governments I am optomistic that each game will play out quite dramatically different. Similiar to RTWBI (which I enjoyed).

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i guess the advantage is that the day 1 patch wont be required to play the game, so u can still play and enjoy without downloading or even while downloading. Again i see steam being a problem because it prolly wont let u play the game without downloading. God i think they made a bad decision. hopefully u can tell it not to update then just download from a 3rd party site and play at teh same time.

yay for the wonder that is steam! /sarcasm off


edit: oh and other cool thing. because of how awesome steam is, my house hold has to either download the demo and any patches 3 times or just have it on 1 pc. both my housemates and i have ordered collectors editions but neither of them have played the demo cos they cbf downloading the demo and using up to 6 gig of our download limit. yay!

There are 4v4 maps, but they are purely available for multiplayer.

Well that should appease the mp crowd.

The crowd that dosn't want to be forced to download the patch

and the crowd that dosn't want to see a 1-2 gig patch tho

still await answers.

So a patch on release day, huh?

Looks over at Dawn of War 2...

Welcome to Steam, I guess!


In general terms, while I don't mind bugfixes, quite to the contrary they're awesome, I don't hink I'm too fond of the mentality behind it.

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Originally Posted by Ituralde

So a patch on release day, huh?

Looks over at Dawn of War 2...

Welcome to Steam, I guess!


In general terms, while I don't mind bugfixes, quite to the contrary they're awesome, I don't hink I'm too fond of the mentality behind it.

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Unfortunately the 'fix it later' mentality is pervasive throughout the entire PC gaming market. Why release a working game when you can force your customers to download a thing that makes it work later?

At least Steam has the advantage that it auto-updates games, meaning everyone will be on the same page when it comes to updates. And that is pretty useful for MP.

Steam makes it easier to release tiny patches that fix small things. Normally these patches would be awful to try and find and download and not worth the effort but Steam changes that by making it easier to obtain them.

I think that means that if we complain enough about a certain problem it will be fixed quite quickly. :2thumbsup:

I agree that Steam makes it so that you are guaranteed to get the fix, before you play the game. Still it makes it a bit too convenient for the 'fix it later' mentality. This is getting off-topic though.

I don't want to complain if using Steam with Empire Total War will se us get more than the usual one to two patches, though. :2thumbsup:

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because of how awesome steam is, my house hold has to either download the demo and any patches 3 times or just have it on 1 pc. both my housemates and i have ordered collectors editions but neither of them have played the demo cos they cbf downloading the demo and using up to 6 gig of our download limit. yay!

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Failure to understand Steam!

Download on one PC, then copy the <Steam path>/SteamApps/<username>/<game> folder onto the others :juggle2:

Great find OP.

I love that they have the first patch ready for day 1 via Steam. My ONLY concern is that some kind of nasty bug makes it's way into the first patch, and because it hasn't been play tested much they miss it and release it like that...and we wind up waiting a while for a fix.

This happened with Dawn of War 2 :wall:

Anyone know if Steam will auto download/install the patch?

You can tell it not to.

We only get 2 patches per release anyways, historically speaking

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Originally Posted by Gaius Terentius Varro

We only get 2 patches per release anyways, historically speaking

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Indeed...and this is why I'm really hoping the "day 1" patch isn't a problem. It could be a while before we see a fix. I think it's a little risky to release the patch before it's been properly tested by the playerbase.

We shall see though. /crosses fingers

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Originally Posted by Gaius Terentius Varro

We only get 2 patches per release anyways, historically speaking

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Rome: Total War

1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4

With Barbarian Invasion there was a 1.5 and a 1.6...

Please see this post in regards to the "ONLY TWO PATCHES" worry.

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Originally Posted by pevergreen

Rome: Total War

1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4

With Barbarian Invasion there was a 1.5 and a 1.6...

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STW had more than that, it had versions all the way up to 1.12.

MI/WE had 3 i think, could be wrong though.

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Originally Posted by pevergreen

Rome: Total War

1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4

With Barbarian Invasion there was a 1.5 and a 1.6...

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1.1 came on release week, 1.2 took ages... the other 2 came out bundled with Barbarian Invasion patches. As I said 2 per release (not title)

1.1 was a MP panic patch because CA had screwed up the server. 1.3 came along with the expansion (BI 1.5) and the expansion patch again had fixes for RTW so it became 1.4/1.6. CA only makes one large patch in between releases.


CBR

Patch means pulling people off other projects, so i doubt they will keep a strike team and release lots of small patches, its not how the industry works. Besides CA got away with not fixing the last 2 games so why do you think they will do it now when 90% of the people playing it (till example people who don't visit forums) won't even know that the game needs fixing.

There goes my knowledge. :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Sir Beane

I think that means that if we complain enough about a certain problem it will be fixed quite quickly. :2thumbsup:

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Unfortunately that is what it means.:no:

Often, much too often those things are crybaby complaints about a historical condition that the poor little babies see as making the game too tough for them.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease and some of the troop never stop squeaking.

There is too much tendency to fix what isn’t broken and leave the bugs for later. Sometime later never even arrives, but by that time the game is already ruined.:smash:

steam lets them release the game in increments. wait six months and you might have everything needed to make an improvement over the last two mp games. maybe it will be cheaper in six months too. :laugh4:

I'm still wondering how the game will be less moddable than previously thought. The modding community has already unpacked almost all the demo files and so far most of it seems stright forward.

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Originally Posted by Mailman653

I'm still wondering how the game will be less moddable than previously thought. The modding community has already unpacked almost all the demo files and so far most of it seems stright forward.

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They never said it would be less moddable, they just said it would be harder. For all we know more stuff can be changed, its just not as easy to do so as it was in Med 2. Thats what I am hoping they mean anyway :2thumbsup:.

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Originally Posted by Sir Beane

They never said it would be less moddable, they just said it would be harder. For all we know more stuff can be changed, its just not as easy to do so as it was in Med 2. Thats what I am hopingthem mean anyway :2thumbsup:.

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That is exactly what we mean.

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Originally Posted by Jack Lusted

That is exactly what we mean.

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Excellent! Thanks for the confirmation Jack :beam:.

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Originally Posted by Jack Lusted

That is exactly what we mean.

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I presumed this would be the case, I suspected the quote people were worried about was miconstrued, in reality EVERY TW has been HARDER to modify because the game has advanced, but then they have become more moddable too, not surprised ETW is no different.

Wonderful :yes:

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Originally Posted by hoom

Failure to understand Steam!

Download on one PC, then copy the <Steam path>/SteamApps/<username>/<game> folder onto the others :juggle2:

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already tried and failed due to steams epic failure.

Well, thats exactly how I got the ETW demo.
I DLed at work, copied onto a USB stick, then into my Steam folder.
When I told Steam to DL, it looked where the game was going to go, found the file already there & just checked its integrity.

I've also used the same method for moving Steam stuff between other PCs/HDDs & Windows installations.

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Originally Posted by knoddy

already tried and failed due to steams epic failure.

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On a machine with it installed, right click on the game in the My Games list and select "Backup game files"

Copy the backup to the other pc and run the generated installer exe.

You can even tell it to split the backup into CD/DVD/other sized chunks if you need to burn it or fit it on a thumb drive.

Oooh, that sounds like a better way of doing it :2thumbsup:

I like the idea of having more options for modding, so that does not worry me. What does though is the fact that 4v4 battles won't be available for SP. I already resolved NOT to buy this game until I get some confirmation that the major problems (esp concerning performance) have been addressed, or some REALLY good mods come out. I am hopeful though that the problems will be addressed, and that I will be able to buy some time in the future, so this is important for me. I loved doing 4v4 custom battles.

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Originally Posted by Vuk

I like the idea of having more options for modding, so that does not worry me. What does though is the fact that 4v4 battles won't be available for SP. I already resolved NOT to buy this game until I get some confirmation that the major problems (esp concerning performance) have been addressed, or some REALLY good mods come out. I am hopeful though that the problems will be addressed, and that I will be able to buy some time in the future, so this is important for me. I loved doing 4v4 custom battles.

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If they are in for MP I imagine mods will make them available for SP pretty quickly. :2thumbsup: